Muzzy Broadheads
Equipment
My thirteen year old son has hit two bucks this year and we have failed to recover either. Two complete pass throughs. Both deer left blood trails for approximately 120 yards. Recovered both arrows, both with good blood. When the deer quit running (guessing here) the wound sealed up or quit pumping blood...we went from spurts to pin drops to no blood at all. First deer, snow on the ground, second snow mostly melted. Spent probably six hours on hands and knees and at least three days looking for bodies. My son is using Muzzy three blades. Deer this year are pretty fat and I am thinking because the blades on the muzzy are so thin, when the deer quits running the holes are sealing. Has anyone else experience this with muzzy heads. I think my son needs to change to a different head.
nothing wrong with muzzy's, as long as he making sure the blades are razor sharp. This sounds like strictly a shot placement issue. I can promise you if a sharp muzzy hits vitals, the deer is dead and should be easily recoverable. He either hit the grassbag (probably not if you had really good blood), or it could have been a muscle-only hit or muscle/bone-only hit which does bleed a lot for a while before clotting.
You never mention shot location, proper shot placement with that broadhead will put deer down quickly.
Pretty sure no gut shots. I just don't know how you spurt blood for 120 yards, than go to pin drops and then blood just disappears completely. Both shots were a tad high, but should of hit the lungs. Don't know...pretty frustrated. My son is just sick.
If you double lung the hole sealing up won't matter as their diaphragm will pump it out their mouth and nose. Shot placement x2
I have seen this scenario with one lung hits on deer when they are fattening up. How long before you trailed them? Did you jump them at all?
Muscle hits (non vitals) will bleed like you described.
First deer we gave 30 minutes, the second deer was about three hrs. Never seen them after the shot. I could see maybe a one lung...his tree stand is approximately 20 feet off the ground. Both deer where under 20 yards. We talked about the shots and I told him next year to hold lower. This off season gonna have him shoot out of tree stand during practice.
My next question, should I let him keep hunting this year? That's two possible dead deer not recovered...I wanna make him wait till next year and chalk this year up to a learning experience. But I don't want to teach him to give up either.
Is it ethical to let him keep hunting at this point. I don't think so, but I didn't bow hunt as a young man and my dad never hunted deer. This situation is new to me.
You never mentioned how old your son is, but I would still let him hunt, but also get some practice time in.
At some point, every hunter is goin to have an "off year" when it comes to taking shots on game. Happened to me this year even though I shot regularly before the season.
Like the other guys have said, it's all about shot placement.
Have him practice several sessions out of a treestand with broadheads and 3d target if you can. Make sure he bends at the waist, picks a small spot and squeeze the shot off. Build back his confidence and Get back on the horse, when he puts one down it will be all the more rewarding. Best of luck to you both.
Don't know the hits... but 100% sure it's not the broadheads. Muzzy makes good broadheads and have for years (even though they are now Rage broadheads.... sniff...)
Nothing magic about broadheads. Sharp ones to the right place kills anything and everything. The only issues with thin blades are durability, they may tend to break off and that wasn't mentioned. Lethal things don't care if cut with sharp thin blades or sharp thicker blades.
Just offhand... high hits are common from treestands. Form as they said above, is critical. Hitting a bit back is common for beginners as well, most need to move their aiming point forward IMO.
If high, honestly the deer has a good chance of survival. Meat hits can bleed a good amount, especially on snow. But they have a good deal of blood in them, meat hits don't normally do it.
It's a personal call, but personally.... I'd make and check off the corrections and continue to hunt if possible. Likely feels punished enough. A little redemption would go a long way to being a committed bowhunter instead of one that feels punished and just wanting to quit and hang it up.
That is pretty common for small heads like muzzy and any other head if that size. Move up to something that cuts 1 1/2 inches nd the problem will stop. Rockets meetseeker is a good one they make a 2" cut too.
^^^^ bad advice IMHO. Muzzy is not a "small" head, and penetration is very important as well as accuracy, so before one just thinks a much wider BH is going to make up for poor shot placement - they better realize what putting something wider at the tip of the arrow means to aerodynamics and penetration.
Much better off sticking with a good muzzy head like the newer "trocar" which from what I have seen seem to fly great and are tough, sharp and really penetrate well - and studying this diagram.
I prefer to intersect the green dot on this, but it's also very important to understand shot angles, as a ground-level, perfectly broadside shot may not be very common.
One of my favorite shots when in a tree, is to have a deer quartering away, and hit where the line marked "rib cage" touches high on the end of lungs, and then exit where I put the green dot. Extremely lethal, and very wide margin for error - probably the widest margin of error for any shot there is.
TBM: Your advice is the worst I have seen posted on bowsite this year. You are so wrong on many levels.
Robwat:
First: Every broadhead that comes out of the package needs to be re-sharpened due to blade oxidation.
Second: Placement: Jack Harris above did a great job of that in the above post.
Third: Check the bow tune of the bow.
Lastly: Don't listen to an idiot trying to convince you a large diameter cutting broadhead is the way to go, when your son, at age 13, is most likely shooting a low poundage set up. That is the perfect recipe for disaster. Hell, Most people can't get it right with high poundage set ups.
His Muzzy head sharpened to a razor's edge will get it done. You can even sharpen the trocar tip with a flat stone.
Your son is getting all those learning lessons out of the way. We all had to. The good news: He is connecting and good things will happen.
Suggest lowering the stand to no more than 18' unless you're hunting in hill country and the trails are uphill. I use a 19’ cord that is attached to my stand seat for raising/lowering my bow. This will measure the height of the stand.
The shot angle for a double lung hit is too steep when the stands are high and animal is close. Margin of error is very small.
Practice from same elevation you hunt and focus on a small spot. We are all guilty of this at one time or another.
A 3D deer target like Rinehart is worth the investment many times over. A few arrows get shot into mine each time I practice. Helps with the mental memory too.
I like to keep tree stand in my back yard exactly like I hunt out of . Then put my targets all over for all types of shots . And I still mess up every now and then but this practice and a range finder are golden for confidence .
Dropped 10 animals in lessa than 40 yards in Africa this year, all with Muzzy 100 grain 3 blade. Only animal that I've had go over 50 yards was a buck last year and that was my fault, hard quartering away shot. My guess is it was a high shot and he only got one lung if any. A few inches high and the deer dropping to take off and you end up with a really high hit.
yes let him hunt. like said we all make misatakes. let him pratice sitting down shooting. you don't have to rember to bend at the waist. muzzys are a good broadhead, plenty big, Do not go with the bigger wider cut broadheads. BAD ADVICE. Forrest
It wasn't the broad head, it was the shot placement. Lots of stuff goes on during and after the shot. If you witnessed the hits then my apologies. I have had grown men describe where their arrows hit only to find something completely different at the end of the blood trail.
Agreed shot placement issue. I've shot a lot of deer with Muzzy Mx3s. The ones I hit good never went past 100 yards. They've all tipped over before they got out of sight. I lost one this year, but it was entirely my fault. Muscle hit. Hit a deer in the good stuff with them and give them some time they Dont go very far. If they go more than a few hundred yards without laying down, you've got problems. There are exceptions, and you have to look, but usually when that happens you are out of luck. I read somewhere that 75% of muscle hit deer recover completely. Guts are another story and a new set of rules. Tell your boy to stick with it. This happens to everyone at some point. Whether or not they admit is another story.
I've shot Muzzy 100 gr 3 blades for the past 10 years. I've never had a problem with a properly hit deer going more than 40 yds after the shot.
I've only used Muzzy 90-grain 4-blades since about 1996, never had any problems. Taken large game such as Bison, Moose and Elk and tiny stuff like Duiker and Springbok.
I would rather have a field tip arrow put in the right spot than the biggest, sharpest thing on the market not.
I've killed right at 300 deer with a bow...size matters..it don't just matter it's everything. If I had shot a muzzy ibwoukd have likely only recovered 200. It noes that big a difference, and it's easier than ever to shoot size.
Holes rarely seal and most of the time is from prolapsed gut from vane pull....most of them will still bleed some.
Most likely a too high (blood body width apart)or two low issue (blood 1/2 body or less width apart).Trailing signs should tell you.
Most young bowhunters hit high but that's a generality....whatever the case make sure you're not pushing gutshots
Straight Arrows
Even a dull Muzzy put in the vitals will put a deer down in a hurry. Though not a good idea to use a dull head.
The question is what is his set up? Draw weight? Draw length? Arrow weight? If he is shooting 45lb and a 300 gr arrow or even less that broadhead will kill em every time if the shot placement is correct.
Probably the first 10 or 15 deer I killed, I killed with Muzzy 3 blades. In fact I've never lost but one deer with a Muzzy, and she was gut shot after my arrow deflected. Antelope and turkeys too. I switched to another brand a few years ago, but not because I was unsatisfied, just wanted to try something different. Muzzy's are good heads.
Muzzy has killed more than a few deer for me.
I am not a fan of Muzzy but in this case it is clear the Muzzy is not the problem. From the circumstances you described I am thinking it might be an issue of stand angle and shot placement. I have seen this happen a few times, The shot seems good and a good blood trail but then around 80 to 150 yards it all just dries up. I found that most of these times the arrow has gone length wise down the off side front leg, instead of into the chest cavity. If that is the case the deer will recover.
I've been using a 3 blade fixed for nearly 40 years very similar to the Muzzy (over 100 kills on a wide variety of biggame). Head isn't the problem. My son just shot A Deer with a 3 blade like the Muzzy, pass thru & she went nearly 200 yds. No great blood trail but enough to track (no snow). when he found & gutted her he had went thru the top of ONE LUNG only. 1 lungers can go a long ways sometimes & even survive. My daughter also uses similar broadhead & she killed a near 1000# Cow Buffalo that dropped 60 yds away. I'm guessing it's all in placement. I have a Dz. 3 blade Muzzys in my "spare" heads bag that will eventually be on my arrows as they ARE so similar to what I shoot now that is no longer made. Sorry that it's happening to your son as I'm sure it's pretty upsetting for him.. Practice & more practice.
TBM, I've got to call BS. And being from Illinois, I know BS. Please start using the spell check button.
Look at this photo. A lot of shots that look good behind the shoulder but high end up above the spine. The spind dips low right behind the shoulder. I would bet his arrow went above through the chops.
12 yards, great pic. TBM that is ridiculous, than why does everyone shoot a smaller head at an elk??? Wouldnt the bigger, stronger, thicker skinned animal seal the wound up better?
Over many years I have found that silence after the shot is one key that makes recovery easier. IF the area remains quiet deer seem to stop faster than if someone is yelling from excitement. I have used Muzzy head for over 20 years and have never lost a deer using them.
Short Answer- I would still let your 13yo son hunt if he wants to.
Unfortunately bad shots happen, but he will never get better without continuing to try. Don't loose a future bowhunter over it.
However before I would let him hunt do the things mentioned- PRACTICE on a 3D target from the tree stand! also lower the stand, and maybe try a ground blind for a better shot angle.
" Move up to something that cuts 1 1/2 inches nd the problem will stop"
"I've killed right at 300 deer with a bow...size matters..it don't just matter it's everything. If I had shot a muzzy ibwoukd have likely only recovered 200"
I just can't help but think that if 1 1/2" is the magic number to not lose 100 deer Maybe increasing your accuracy by 5/16"
bb- stop trying to apply logic... It won't matter.
12 yards -that really is a great diagram, and further illustrates how I lost the biggest buck I will ever see in my life back in 2002 in my back woods, the first year I bought my new house. My shot hit 2" above the 10th vertebrae from end of neck in your pic, on a dark horned, massively crabs clawed buck that I still say would be the only 170 class mainframe 8 I will ever see, with some junk and splits around the bases... Tall, wide, mass mass mass, and dark... I was shooting very old bow past it's prime, stretched out strings, but took a very calm and relaxed 17 yard shot and was just shocked when arrow hit 6" higher than I wanted. The thunderhead was sticking out the other side, had good blood for a while, and lost it in the rain that kicked in later around 10am. I saw him two weeks later mid-November, rutting a young doe and being very patient with her as only mature bucks will do. He got the arrow out of his backstrap and just had a black scab to show... I nearly shot him again (that was my first hunt after the blunder -I seriously thought about quitting bow-hunting after that I kid you not) nearly shot him again. I promise everyone reading this - A 1.5" Simmons broadhead would NOT have killed that buck. It still would have been just over the spine and he would have just had a slightly bigger sore to heal... (I think the lord sent me that buck, and made damn sure I lost it - so I would become a better bowhunter and really start taking my gear more seriously, which I absolutely did, but I swear, I nearly gave it up)
I mean come on TBM, Muzzys are on average, 3 blade, 1 1/8" cut diameter. You advocate a 1.5" 2 blade Simmons, which is a damn fine head for those that can tune them (accuracy more important). The total cut surface between your head and the average muzzy is not all that different anyway, so stop blowing smoke up the behinds of anyone dumb enough to listen.
I switched to COC VPAs in 2011, which are 1 1/8" and have 13 straight drop in sight deer since then. 11 complete pass-throughs, all through 2 lungs or heart, except for one liver shot (happened to be my biggest) but he still died in sight, just took an hour.
I am tired of this BIGGER is better BS - it makes no sense. There are far more important variables in play starting with SHOT PLACEMENT, PENETRATION, ACCURACY, and SHARPNESS...
If you have all those being equal and you can still put a larger BH through the same exact spot, OK I grant you - only in that situation is bigger- better But as others have echoed - extremely poor advice on your part. There is no "one size fits all" perfect BH that will be optimal for everyone, but there "could" be an optimal BH for each individual setup.
I agree Jack, I shoot a 1" standard Slick trick and with four blades its tiny size puts big holes in game. Ive gotten great blood trails from them and would put it against a big mech head any day. I think Muzzy is a good head but why shoot a 3 blade 1 1/8 inchh aluminum ferrule head when you have a four blade all steel scary sharp tough german blade head? I encourage the muzzy guys to give one a try you will be pleased.
Since 1974, every animal I hit where I should died. Most every animal I hit marginally, I found. Unfortunately a few I did not recover. But this I guarantee you, every animal I hit where I should never, was never recovered.
I now shoot 2 blade Phantoms and they kill cleanly and tune easily. Back to our roots and not going back!
Why respond to someone that doesnt give a crap...
In Vermont as in many states the minimum size for a broadhead is 7/8" with at least two cutting surfaces. I did some research and have read this is because one of our pioneer modern bow hunters used a 7/8 head. He commented a tad bigger might be better. After reading this thread I am convinced that accuracy and knowing where to place a shot rate higher on the priority list than broadhead used. My advice to anyone after losing a deer is to practice on a 3D target and analyze every hit to see what organs would have been hit until the hunter feels ready to take a shot at a deer. It may be two practice sessions or two years depending on the hunter. Let your range sessions and your son's confidence determine when he goes back out. Good luck.
I agree with everthing Jack Harris is saying.
As others have stated, shot placement trumps every other factor by a large margin in terms of recovering bow-shot game. The OP's son very likely did not hit either buck through the vitals, and it is highly unlikely that it is the fault of the broadhead.
Bigger is better on the margin, but if you put the arrow where it is supposed to go it doesn't matter if the 2 1/2" or 7/8".
"Why respond to someone that doesnt give a crap..."
This site needs a TBM-free button. He's like a cross between a goose, an elephant, and a unicorn - the sheer volume of cr@p he can spread in a short time is of mythical proportions.
States instituted size requirements for broadheads for a reason...the reason being when experienced archers switched from the heads that cut 3/4 inch slots to the larger 1 1/8 inch cuts they noticed a significant amount more tracking blood and shorter blood trails. They set the size limits and for a long time manufacturers commonly exceeded the minimum legal limit. Rocky Mountain made the ultra and supreme in 1 1/2 inch cuts, Anderson made the mag size in an 1 3/4 cut and Hoyt made the Chuck It 4 blade in 1 1/2 by 1 1/4....and we had the coc Snuffers and Magnus which both cut 1 1/2. That was before SPEED ruled and rubber deer shooters made up all the pro's and before bows were disigned for rubber deer shooters. After that heads that cut any size vanished unless in mechanical form.
So now most of the advice is given by folks who want speed and light arrows and they have to shoot small heads and have done so all their lives so they don't know any better. The early bowhunters only biwhunted and they knew better and that is why there are standards and laws against small cutting diameters. Bows shoot so hard today it is possible and probably even likely that a good sharp coc head 3 inches wide would shoot through deer with ease...I know a 1 9/16 inch head will pass through an elk with ease so deer are not a problem.
Some say the proof is in the pudding....last year's results solidified in my mind what a large head will do. Almost no vitals were hit and deer averaged going down in 40 yards.
Size matters...the early real bowhunters know that...target archers don't!!!
Matt, do a search on "hamblaster".... unique insight....
"Almost no vitals were hit and deer averaged going down in 40 yards."
good grief.
I normally try real hard to lay off these TBM posts Real hard, had been doing good for a long time, but just pretty much sick of the bs.
The act has worn far to thin. Fart jokes are funny to kids, giggle and laugh. hehe. Making jokes about Grandpa crapping his pants is not. Unless your pretty sick and have a child's grasp of reality.
I even think the fan club would be ashamed. Or you'd think.
agree TD. Must have a large blade scalpel that did the lobotomy as far too much was removed.
TD I am with u I stopped too, but this was not a TBM post and I could not sit idle and let really ass-backward advice be propagated. Hey nothing wrong with a big sharp BH on a heavy arrow. If you can shoot it accurately and it's right for YOUR setup. But to fix the issues presented by the OP - it's the worst advice I have ever seen. All others gave consistent good advice. I am sure the OP can weed through the BS
TBM must be using those Rambo broadheads. Turns them in to sausage when they hit.
Robwat: Jack Harris, Matt, TD, Drathaar, and a host of others above have given you some solid advice.
I hope your son continues the journey.
TBM-No joke: Please delete your posts on this thread. You are doing novice hunters a serious disservice.
One of the quickest bow kills I have seen on video was by Pat, the owner of Bowsite, using a 2 blade 85 grain Muzzy. Maybe 6 seconds and a whopping two feet before the animal was down. Placement, edge retention, and razor sharp equals dead deer.
Does anyone have a link to Pat's quick deer bow kill? I think he was up North somewhere.
It really is a textbook shot and young hunters can learn allot from it. I remember showing it to my son when he was getting into bow hunting.
Those who have said shot placement and stand height are right on. Higher stands have some advantages but close range shots and high stands are a big disadvantage. Couple that with a youth hunter who has little to no experience and you have a tough situation for him to succeed. There is also a likely chance that buck fever is contributing to the problem.
Certainly let him keep hunting. I would, however, sit down with him and look at some of the shot placement images available on past Bowsite threads. There are also many available with a simple Google search.
Good luck and good hunting. Tell your son we are wishing him the best! ==============
TBM, if you really have retrieved 100 of your 300 deer with non-vital hits I would seriously recommend you take up a different sport...that inconsistency would definitely fall into the 'very poor bowhunter' category.
TBM knows the answer to any question. Amazing!
Tbm, "Hit them where they live", and any properly sharpened BH (2 bld, 3 blade, mechanical, etc.) will do the trick ,size is pretty much ilrelevant. Sounds like poor shot placement to me. Quit giving BS advice when you obviously don't know what your talking about !
I think honk the likelihood of a hunter related mistake...espicially a young hunter is greater than the likelihood of a mistake caused by a large broadhead. The large broadhead will cover up the mistakes better than the small heads.. that's been proven. It's also been proven that the "best" are few and far between... Therefore the best are always in the minority. Count the votes for shot placement being the top priority and a big head being top priority. It is everyone else against me. That should speak volumes.
Shooting a big head doesn't mean they are incapable of hitting the vitals...they are just as accurate as most heads...hey are just insurance against a bad hit.
Sorry to hear about your son losing those deer. It stinks and it happens. Ok, well, the older I get and the more I hunt, the more I don't like 20'+ treestands. Yes, the angle can certainly be an issue. Compounding the problem is that a deer's chest looks HUGE from above, and that's because we see the back, all the way down to the belly. I think what a lot of folks do is to instinctively/naturally aim for the middle......we're just kind of programmed that way. Then the deer moves at the shot and we are out of the lungs for sure. On level ground 12-15ft treestands make much more sense to me, if I were still inclined to hunt from them, which I'm not......found that I kill just as many and wound less standing on dirt.
In case you were wondering, yes, this 'TBM' fella is serious and absolutely anything he says should be completely disregarded. Every village has an idiot, welcome to our village.
Roger & Matt - great to see you guys posting over on this side of the "wall". Don't be strangers, and you could not be more "Spot on" with your posts. You both in particular, where very impressive to me when I first joined bowsite, and gave me really good tech advice. That still sticks in my mind. Roger - sorry I didn't master the recurve this year, maybe next...
TBM...your boring! Your nothing more than an ego full of nonsense!
"Some say the proof is in the pudding....last year's results solidified in my mind what a large head will do. Almost no vitals were hit and deer averaged going down in 40 yards."
"Shooting a big head doesn't mean they are incapable of hitting the vitals...they are just as accurate as most heads..."
There are only two possible explanations as to how both of these statements could be true - and both support what everyone but you already knows.
RobWat sounds like both hits were above the spine. Good blood at first for a good stretch, than trial diminishes to drops, then nothing. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. Good news is that they will live to be shot another day. Got t his pic from a "void" thread. That is a classic above the spine hit that looked like a good hit. Tell the kid to aim lower next time.
Jack, coming from an ace like you that definitely means something to me. Thank you, sir. :) Mastering the recurve, or longbow for that matter, is nothing more than a realization and acceptance of our unique limits as archers.......and then move forward to build. Aim that arrow, bud - best advice I can give. The "instinctive method" is only one way and I can tell you from too many experiences with others that it doesn't work for most. The primary goal in archery is to hit the target with consistency - that is what they call "accuracy". It couldn't matter less to me what type of bow anyone uses. A sight on a recurve doesn't make it less of a bow, btw, but does make it more accurate for you. It isn't 'cheating' either. Don't be tempted to buy in to what the Neotrads and Born Again Trads say - those guys haven't a clue.
Btw, get a lighter bow to relearn. Too much is made of draw weight. For what we do most everything out there is overkill. Free the mind and the ass will surely follow..........
Another revelation... Since only a very few of "anything" can be the best, in fact in all actuality, there can only be "one" best - so if you have one opinion, and 40 other men have another that all seem to "agree", well by golly, the "minority" opinion has to be the best since it's the only one...
Anyone seen the new "Dumb and Dumber II" movie? I think it met it's match... We have all now witnessed, an entirely new milestone of "next level stupid".
And I say that - with all due respect.
I think its completely natural to become satisfied....in fact it's quiet easy to become satisfied and that in fact is the key ingredient in the death if the evolution of an archer....or anything else for that matter. You have to fight the urge to be satisfied for that leads to complacency. Your water becomes stagnant and a steady decline is the course for those who land there.
The only way to avoid this decline is to fight being satisfied with anything and continue to evolve. It is obvious some of these guys became satisfied with their broadheads before the summit...in fact a mere description of the summit yields unbelief in their minds...they can't even picture that there is anything better out there. What a shame, for the decline is in the horizon.
"It is obvious some of these guys became satisfied with their broadheads before the summit..."
Or maybe they just aim for the vitals?
Matt: Your aim is true! Merry Christmas my friend!
"It is everyone else against me. That should speak volumes." Yes, TBM, it should, but I don't think you are listening to anyone but yourself. Sometimes, actually the vast majority of the time, when it's everyone else against someone, the someone is wrong. Unless, of course, the someone is a genius amongst morons. I don't believe that's the case here.
TBM loves this. You guys just keep feeding him.
tradmt that is true. I think there is enough intelligence throughout this post for the OP to draw the right conclusion, to see well past the turd in the punchbowl. I'm done...
Here is a 100gr. Muzzy my buddy shot through the shoulder of a buck this year. It killed the deer just fine, but its condition afterward, i'm not so sure about.
Bad to the Bone????
Grunt-n-gobble - I too have seen that when I shot that same head. Always dead deer, but hit too much bone, the head cannot be reused. In terms of "toughness on bone" I always felt muzzy was about middle of the pack, but still make fine heads. I think the new Trocar is better design would hold up better. Another great head with replaceable blades that is way tougher is the trophy taker t-locks. It goes without saying, the VPAs for me, have been even another level of being close to "indestructible".
Don't you just feel the holiday spirit in this thread:)
ive always used the muzzy 4 blade,and really like them for accuracy and the fact the blades are thin! they`ll bend if contacting bone "ribs" and not deflect so much as a really heavey blade and still have 3 sharp blades doing the job..Just My Opinion,
replacing heads is the cost of taking the shot so make um count! if you get it back in good shape its a bonus Practice practice practice on placement placement placement is the best thing you can do for young kids and old Dads! 3-D walk throughs are fun which equals time with your kids MikeC MERRY CHRISTMAS AND A HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE
I have shot a Muzzy (old-style) 3-blade through a 55-gallon drum several times, a rather heavy gauge drum at that,...it dulled the blades but did not bend the head. No doubt the head can be bent if it hits a bone just right (or anything else of similar density). I've shot a dozen or so deer with Muzzys, hitting rib most of the time, and a couple of times shoulder blade, once spine, and have never had any more damage than dulled blades.
I shot the 115 grn for years. I have killed over a hundred animals with them from coyotes and turkeys, two B & C whitetails to a couple of dozen elk. Quickest lion kill I have ever seen, including gun, was with the 115. Awesome killing machines. I lost three animals with them over the years and all three were my fault. One elk in the leg bone just above the joint, a 176" 8 pt that I hit just over the lungs, a friend killed it a few weeks later, and a monster mulie that I hit high. Good blood on the two high hits for a hundred or so yards then it slowed and stopped. They are great heads. Alan
I shot the 4 blade 90gr head for years and had excellent results. I have moved on since then (broadhead junkie) but when reflecting on that head I probably never had quicker and shorter kills if I put it where they live!
It is all about shot placement. Can not kill them if you do not hit them in the vitals.
Razor,
Watched that as well last night. Nicole ain't just a pretty blonde with a bow. Well she is....
Anyhow....here is a blood trail from a doe last year. Was about a 28 yard shot, hit right at Jack's little green dot. Equipment is a Mathews LX 28-1/2" 60# with AxisST arrows and......100gr STANDARD 1" SLICK TRICKS.
At the hit site......
About 5 yards or so into the trail....
....10 yards.....
....20 yards.....
Bottom line.....Why do I need an 1-1/2" cut? Razor sharp, 1"-1-1/4" diameter, and put it where it needs to go, trails are short and easy.
while the time-tested and venerable Muzzy 3-blade 100gr is hard to beat for value and performance (a 6 pack is pretty darn reasonable) I really think the new 3-blade "Trocar" is the new standard-bearer for 3 blade, replaceable blade fixed blade BH's. 1 3/16" cut and solid steel ferule and trocar tip. The only head in it's class that I have seen is the Trophy Taker Terminal T-Lock (Charlie's head).
Just think if I would have used a 1 1/2" head. He may have only went 30 yds instead of 75 :)
Instead of a 100 grain Muzzy Trocar
The problem is not the broadhead.
Let him keep hunting. He's only 13, I made a ton of mistakes when I was bow hunting at that age. He has to get back on the horse and keep riding. As far as the shot they both sound very indicative of muscle type hits. Definitely high back. They will live to see another day.
"I just don't know how you spurt blood for 120 yards, than go to pin drops and then blood just disappears completely."
By hitting several small arteries in muscle tissue.
"while the time-tested and venerable Muzzy 3-blade 100gr is hard to beat for value and performance (a 6 pack is pretty darn reasonable) I really think the new 3-blade "Trocar" is the new standard-bearer for 3 blade, replaceable blade fixed blade BH's. 1 3/16" cut and solid steel ferule and trocar tip. The only head in it's class that I have seen is the Trophy Taker Terminal T-Lock (Charlie's head)."
I have a sample size of one in terms of trocar kills, and while it is a great head in many respects (strong ferrule, flies incredibly well, sharp blades, reasonably priced, very good Muzzy customer service) it has a few negative aspects. The first is blade angle, which is quite abrupt. My sense is this can lead to the blades dulling more quickly on thick or course-haired animals. I got a pass-through with one on a moose, and the blades were fairly dull on recovery. The second issue is the potential for blade set-back if bone is hit. This is not a huge deal, but has the potential to push the blades back, potentially cutting the insert. This is not good for guys who use CA glue or epoxy for inserts.
