Was Ready to buy No-Cam
Equipment
My shoulder has been bothering me for a while especially after a session of shooting. I went to the local bow shop and shot the No - Cam Mathewes and really wanted it. I love that bow and it draws and shoots nicely for me. Could not pull the financial trigger so went back home to my older 2008 elite solocam bow. They say my warranty is void if I crank back below 2 turns. Well I went three turns on the 60-70 limbs becaus the draw was making my shoulders pop. Well it pulled quite nicely at the new adjustments and did not hurt so bad and here is how I shot at 40 yds tonight. The bow shop turned my daughter's Parker down many more turns than that, what is with Elites 2 turn rule?
Liability. I hope your shoulder gets to feeling better.
Owned a shop fo seventeen years two turns should not hurt nything1
Owned a shop for seventeen years two turns should not hurt anything1
Just getting old shoulder is not going to improve. That cam seems really aggressive especially when cold and sitting for one pull on a deer. It says 60-70 and each turn is rated for three pounds so if my math is good the 2 recommended turns out is only 6 lbs. I should have 4 more pounds I could reduce but warranty is void if I do 3 turns?? Maxed out this bow pulls 72 lbs. I want to shoot it at its lowest capability. What is going to happen past 2 turns to void the warranty? Thanks in advance.
Threads on bolts. Some threads are finer and so it takes more turns to move the limbs. Others have a coarser thread so the limb movement is greater in two turns than would be seen with a finer thread limb bolt. You need to stay with the manufacturers recommendations if you want to keep your warranty in tac and avoid any possible damage to yourself if the limbs come out of place. Could it happen?? Maybe and maybe not, but as was mentioned, liability. You assume all risks if you don't comply with the manufactures recommendations. This is typical of all products and warranties.
Instead of a new bow what don't you look for a set of 60 pound limbs?
I to was getting ready to drop $1200 on a new 50/60 NoCam.........until I woke up and decided that my old Switch Back was a great bow. I decided to look for a 50/60 SB and found one on this sight for $390. I have installed a new BlackGold 5 pin Rush and a QAD rest and hope to be shooting this next week. Now I have a lower poundage rig and still have the higher one for elk hunts and so on. (That being said, I would still like to have a new NoCam)
Thanks bodude I did not know the bolts could come out with just a few turns. I just thought the concern was the string could come off cam because too loose. Since I backed out 3 turns, the bow shoots tighter groups and I don't see the fletching corkscrew every third shot or so. I may look at limb options. Thanks for all the help.
I drew the no-cam, was not impressed, my bowtech rpm 360 is smoother and way faster, I didn't find the no cam smooth
1cam, you're fine at 3 turns. It's the length of the bolt that matters and the Elite bolt is long enough.
Leave it, shoot it, have fun and get healed up.
Hey, if anything happens just turn it back in a couple turns before you go back to the shop.
We used to get small engines in for "warranty" with seized up pistons and con rods welded to the crank.... they forgot to add oil before starting it up as they come shipped with no oil.
A good many of them came in full to the brim though, with clear shiny brand new oil in them.....that had never been run..... =D
What they said, should be fine. Digital bow scales are pretty affordable these days, might check it to see what poundage you really are pulling.
I guess you didn't learn your lesson about giving advice:) He turns it 3 turns and the entire bow comes apart and you are right in the middle of the action again.
Have a great day. Chip
I looked at the no cam too...and shot it all afternoon??....I wanted it so bad but the price is way out there, I just won't pay that kind of money for a bare bow.
Wapiti, thanks for your comment regarding the bolt. I realize that it would void my warranty and that is ok with me to take a little risk because it shoots and feels better to me. I don't want to shoot with the fear that this thing is going to blow up on me or something. The scale says it is at 63lbs I adjusted the limb stop a little to settle into the valley better and will just keep my fingers crossed. Can someone explain how and why A failure would occur if at all? If the limb bolt is long enough and I tighten the side screws it should stay where it is then. Thanks and I'll keep checking in if any other info is added by you bow experts out there. I appreciate saving money where I can just to keep this bow in operation.
This is the first that I heard that a warranty would be void if you backed the bow down to the bottom of the designed draw weight range. I would call Elite. If you have a 60-70# bow you should be able to shoot it at 60#s.
1, I will pm you a contact at Elite so you can get your concerns addressed.
Thank you sir. I looked on their FAQ page and they don't budge on that 2 turns qualifier.
Goyt... We are not talking about tightening the bolts all the way down we are discussing backing them out.
It is not a matter of the bow limb bolts being too short, it is the amount of "stress" that is applied to the limb bolt when in the limb pocket that keeps things in place when the bolts are tightened to the correct amount of turns. As in all things, there is a certain amount of "over engineering" that comes into play. Are you safe? Probably, but to cover their "butts", they have a safety factor built in and so that is why they limit the amount of turns to "back out" to only 2. There is a lot of stress that is applied to the bolt threads and if not enough thread is left holding things together, they can "strip out". Again, there is a safety factor built into that magic number of turns in order for the manufacturer to avoid law suits should things come apart. As a consumer, you can do what ever you feel you want to do. Just keep in mind that a lot of engineering has gone into the design and things have been tested and a "safety margin" has been set so as to protect the consumer (and manufacturer). In todays world, not accepting responsibility for one's action is the norm and with all the lawsuit hungry lawyers out there looking for any opportunity to make a buck, manufacturers have to protect themselves. Too bad we live in a world of "finger pointing", but it is what it is. Keep in mind, you have engineers who designed the bow telling you what your safety margins are and then you have "arm chair" engineers telling you what they think you can get away with. We have a structural engineering firm here locally that will over engineer a building by 80%. I don't know if that is the norm for all building engineering or just this particular companies policy. It could be the same for bow manufacturing engineering. Any who, I am betting there is some over engineering that has gone on, but... I am not one to push the envelope and will stay with the recommendations of those in the know. Your decision. I will say this, I broke my elbow one year and at the time was shooting a Mathews. I turned out the bolts to the recommended 6 max turns, but had to go an additional 2 (total of 8) in order to reduce the poundage enough so I could hunt that fall. I survived without incident. 20 years later and 20 years wiser, I don't know that I would do it again.
Awesome bow dude, I will be accountable for my own actions just wanted to look into it. Thank you all for the effort given. I will take my chances at 3 turns for now. Although 4 would feel much better! I really appreciate your typing all that information.
So the company makes a bow advertized to be 70 to 60 lbs... but if you actually take it anywhere near 60 it voids your warranty?
Nobody sees anything wrong with dat?
Something doesn't balance here. Could they possibly mean 2 turns OUTSIDE the recommended adjustment range?
If not... I'd have some issues with Elite.
Exactly TD. If you advertise that a bow can go to 60 with the limbs provided, it had BETTER go to 60 or it is false advertising and something is really off with Elite. All other companies state the 10 lb. range for your limbs/bows and don't (as far as I know) void your warranty if you try to take advantage of that.
If you can't engineer your bow so it can take the listed lb. range, then you have a real problem. Either that or say "we use 65-70 lb. limbs."
OK, I think you got me! Went to Elite's website and took a close look at the warranty. No mention of number of turns on the limbs in the warranty. Unless there is fine print somewhere else, it looks like Elite has a great warranty.
Are you getting your information directly from Elite? A "pro" shop? A "friend?
Just got a 60-70 lb. Elite 32. Guy I bought it from said it was at 70. Took it to the bow shop and asked them to turn it down. He cranked it down some. When we checked the weight it was 53.4 lbs. He didn't think it should go that low, but it did. Paper-tuned & shot great. I'm going with it.
Adjusting the let off Before making any adjustments to the limb bolts, the four pocket set screws need to be loosened about one full turn . After adjusting the limb bolts to the desired weight, make sure and tighten the four pocket set screws. WARNING: DO NOT TURN THE LIMB BOLTS OUT MORE THAN THE RECOMMENDED TWO (2) TURNS! Doing so could damage the bow, cause limbs to break out of their pockets and result in bodily injury. It will also void of your Elite warranty. Binary Cam Adjustment and tuning Binary cams are modular adjusted; (the charts in the following sections will indicate which module and draw stop setting your bow should be set up at.) Draw lengths are available in 1/2 inch increments. All Elite bows are set to peak performance from the factory. Changing the let off Changing the let-off is very simple. Your bow may require a post setting and/or module change. The draw stop affects the bow’s let-off by stopping the rotation of the cam on the module track before it over rotates and before the cables contact the mod stop post. Let-off can be adjusted up to 80%. NOTE: Post setting adjustments allow fine tuning to achieve individual draw length requirements, however adjusting the draw length will affect the let-off and the valley at the same time. Achieving an exact let-off at a specific draw length will require some trial and error of minor modifications and/or the use of a draw board and digital scale. See your local Elite dealer for assistance.
This was cut and pasted from the 2008 elite aigil manual.
1cam - since that is 7 years old (I know that is the one you started the thread about), do you know what the current policy is? Most companies change their technology quite a bit in that amount of time. Just wondering since I couldn't find anything like that in their warranty on their current bows...
Found this in the manual too. Thing is that bow pulls 73 lbs max when bolts turns in all the way. Here it says I can back bolts 2 and 1/4 turns so I gained a quarter turn:). I'm fine pulling this bow at 63lbs. Don, can believe you got that elite to 53lbs maybe the dual cams don't have any bolt turn limitations. Thanks for all the input.
Elite’s Aigil has a 10 pound weight reduction range from your bow’s peak weight. Draw weight adjustments are made using a 3/16” Allen wrench. Turn the limb bolt clockwise to increase the draw weight and counter clockwise to decrees the weight. Each rotation is equivalent to 5 pounds of draw weight. It is very important to adjust the limb bolts equally but do not exceed 2 1/4 full turns out from maximum draw weight.
Yode, I do not know their current policy but ownership has changed hands since my bow came out. Headquartered back east now. Not that you care but you could google elite agile specs and it will take you to a pdf of my bow and that is where it states it. And it is in bold red print too! They were down right serious about it back in those days.
Don just looked up technical manual for elie 32 2014 technical manual and here is what it said:
WARNING: DO NOT TURN THE LIMB BOLTS OUT MORE THAN THE RECOMMENDED TWO (2) TURNS! Doing so could damage the bow, cause limbs to break out of their pockets and result in bodily injury. It will also void your Elite warranty
It is in all their manuals under Draw weight adjustments. Just looking out for your safety Don. Good luck to ya! I'm not going to fret over it anymore especially just 3 turns. Like most of you already said, it's a liability thing.
The guy I bought the bow from said he had it set at 70. I think it was cranked down all of the way. I'm sure the guy at the bow shop didn't go more than 3 turns, but when we weighed it, the bow was at 53.4 lbs. Bow shop manager thought maybe the bow was marked wrong & had 50-60 lb. limbs. It's clearly marked 60-70. I was happy at 53.4 with my shoulder. Feels good, shoots good.
Don, at least your archery shop did it for you. I would imagine they know the scoop. Glad your shooting it well and it's easy on your shoulder to boot. I think my shoulder needs to get looked at just don't feel right. Thanks for all the help above, I'll let this thread go to rest now.
TD, Where are you getting this idea that 2 turns will not take an Elite 70 lb bow down to 60 lbs? You are making a wrong assumption. As was stated earlier, Elite has course threads on their limb bolts rather than fine threads which adjusts the poundage quicker. I have owned 2 Elite GT 500's that were 70 lbs, and currently a 60 lb GT500 and a 65 lb Answer. It is in the coarseness of the threads that makes for the quick adjustments. My bows will adjust about 1.5 lbs in 1/4 turn. Elite's normally exceed their limb pull maximum by 2 to 3 lbs. I have never backed off my limb bolts on any of my Elite bows the max 2 turns, so I don't know what my 65 lb Answer ends up at when I back off 2 turns, or my 60 lb GT500, but I am certain that it will drop at least 10 lbs in 2 turns. I have found Elite to be truthful in their stated specifications. Binary cams are different than single cams and duel cam bows. They adjust differently, tune differently and the cam sync is different. They are an overall good system.
1cam, enjoy your bow and good luck in healing. Been there several years ago myself.
Two turns takes your bow from 70 to 60 lbs??? 5 lbs per turn? Really?
Maybe with ACME threads. I've worked on a pile of bows the last 20 years or so.... none had anything close to what you are suggesting. Most (all?) are 2-3lb per turn off the top of my head.
Granted, never dealt with Elite bows. But I would be very surprised if they were THAT far out of the norm.
Manuals should say. What exactly DO they state as to draw weight adjustment per turn?
