US hunters coming into Canada alert
General Topic
The Manitoba Lodges and Outfitters Association has just been alerted from our friends at SCI that regulations for US hunters coming into Canada with a firearm will be met with new regulations when bringing into Canada, firearms.
If CBP/IYN/AES/EEI/and EIN mean nothing to you, they soon will. These are new regulations from the US, not Canada. Once I find out more, I'll inform you.
SCI provided me with a web site www.ice.gov/cpi/faq which I have yet to go to.
So odd that for me to go to my cabin in Ontario via the USA I can transport firearms with no issues, but for you coming north and intending to come home, there are hoops and hurdles to go threw.
Wish they'd give the Mexican border similar interest and concern. Maybe sportsmen are a greater threat in their eyes..
more details on this? I am bowhunting this June in Newfoundland, but planning a rifle moose hunt for 2016
I just went on that web site. There must be a way to stream line this in my opinion.
If your only a bowhunted you can still get by without declaring your bow.
boy that sucks. leave it up to the government to implement something and not have it ready to use, but we are expected to use it? I am leaving in May to go to Canada and am bear hunting with my bow but we were told to bring our rifle to go wolf hunting for free if we got done bear hunting early.
X2 on South Farm's post...
If this administration would put as much energy into harassing illegal immigrants at the border, as they do into harassing law-abiding American firearm owners, we might see some progress on the real problem.
Pete
X2 on South Farm's post...
If this administration would put as much energy into harassing illegal immigrants at the border, as they do into harassing law-abiding American firearm owners, we might see some progress on the real problem.
Pete
Write your congressman.
I am going to do so right now.
They know the illegals coming through the southern boarder would never put up with that and Obama would agree with them and heads would roll.
The sad part for you bigdan, you don't seem to realize that in the future, it'll be your bow that's up for grabs too!! Someday, it'll be considered the same as a firearm. So be smart enough to be an allie and not a foe.
DASPHALT the laws in Canada are there laws you have no gun rights in Canada You can wine piss and moan and they don't give a dam. I have hunted in Canada and had to drive through Canada going to Alaska Its there laws. One time when I was headed up to Alaska. Canada customs pulled are rig over and in my door they found and empty 45 acp case in my door they unloaded my hole truck. And after 6 hours they finley lets us go on are way after finding nothing else in are truck. After that we made sure we didn't have as much as a 22 shell with us. When they tell me I can't bring a bow then I will never go there again. I have been over the border at least 80 times over the years going to shoots, hunting & Driving to Alaska. There's no sad part for me. I have all the hunting I need in the US
Good for you Dan, but the problem is not Canadian laws it is US law.
Sureshot x2. Its jot Canada BigDan, its the USA that has the new procedure! Its just another attempt to control any weapon.
2219 make sure you read law the way I read it if your bear tag is full you have no valid license to hunt wolf, if this is wrong someone let me know
Another example of the Department of Homeland Security (DSH) worrying more about U.S. Citizens. There increased enforcement of ITAR violations is the new way this administration is trying to get around gun control. After 30+ years in Federal LE it is scary what I see happening. Biggest problem is that changes take effect and you don't know about it until you hit the border on a trip that you have a lot invested in.
Do we know for sure that DHS will not also apply these requirements to archery gear?
Yes zebra killer you can only hunt wolves with an unused tag in manitoba and when the wolf season is on.
Thanks Alexis thats what I thought
One of the reasons I sold my place in Alaska was the hassle at the US border coming back with bears killed in Alaska. I had been doing it for years and one year they took 3 bear hides and skulls from me and I had to go to federal court to get them back. I had all the paper work but the hunters were not riding in my rig. They flew home. The US side is out of control.
As an outfitter, we have many of our guests coming to hunt with archery gear and accompanied by a friend or relative that are not proficient with archery gear or not archers at all, looking at holdups at the border and a general unpleasant experience placed on a hunt because of these new laws and seizure of property. The Canadian Border Services, from what I understand , will be required to check that incoming hunters with firearms have completed the proper forms to be complient with US regulations. Prior to this, all that needed to be done was make your declaration and pay your $25.00. I'm wondering, will they get a pass or has Big Brother told them to send them back for more trouble?
Ron, Thanks for posting this. You are always on top of these issues and your willingness to help others is always appreciated. I thought I had everything figured out for my fall hunt in Canada, but it looks like I have more research to do. Thanks again, Jeff
I called the US customs in Pembina ND 3-25-2015.I asked them if there were any new regulations about bring a rifle from Canada back into the United States.They said nothing has changed. I asked if the forms we need to cross into Canada were still the same also. nonresident Form 5589 is the form(in triplicate)(and signed at border). They said those were the forms needed. The number in Pembina is 701-825-5800
This was being implemented for April 3rd from what the info reads. I'm headed to Minneapolis Monday and intend on stopping into both borders to ask face to face and will have the pages printed from their own web site.
Do outfitters rent guns? I would do that to avoid the hassle at the border if I were ever to hunt with a rifle in Canada.
Got this today:
State to NSSF: No 'Reverse' Export Control
NSSF this week met with Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Defense Trade Controls (DDTC) Ken Handelman and received assurances that the "reverse" export control we confirmed had been under consideration is not going forward. NSSF discussed industry support for Export Control Reform (ECR) and the status of moving licensing of our products (USML Cat I III) to the Commerce Department. The matter is being actively considered and a better indication should be available in mid-April after ECR interagency group meetings.
We also discussed related topics including the congressional notice threshold, non-exporting manufacturer registration fees, guidance regarding standard 30-round magazine export and policy change to allow commercial export of suppressors to countries where they are lawful. Finally, NSSF broached the AES Temporary Export problem. We will seek a meeting with Customs to discuss the impractical requirement that individuals must file for the temporary export of up to three firearms and 1,000 rounds of ammunition. NSSF was first to raise this issue after DDTC, apparently at Customs' request, amended the pertinent ITAR regulation in 2012.
Good work Ace! At least they are considering discussing this "impractical requirement". Someone with common sense spoke up.
I'm headed south threw Pembina, ND on Tuesday and have printed their web page info to see what they have to say.
IF everyone would stop paying taxes for one year, revolt would happen and we could start again.
I called the ATF In Washington DC. I again asked the question I posed to Canadian customs and U S customs. That question being "Is there new legislation coming that would change the protocol of hunters bringing their firearms back into the U S after having the proper documentation needed to enter Canada ? There answer was "No Change". If you make a call to the ATF in Washington D C, be prepared to be put through a complicated bureaucratic automated experience before you actually talk to a "Real Person". I am anxiously waiting to hear what Bear Track has to say when he gets back from Minneapolis after passing through both Canadian and US customs.
The DHS is a joke. The REAL terrorists get away ( we all know why) while the ones (you and I) not causing ANY threats get harrassed.
Thanks for the work on this Greg.
I had the complete opposite reaction last night when I stopped in to US customs at Pembina. The 2 officers I spoke to, had no idea what I was talking about and wanted to turn me away until I showed them my copies off their ICE web site noting the new protocol. They read it and I asked "The way I read it, this is to be implemented April 3rd and if it was, would you assume you officers would know about it?"One officer took my copies to a lead officer in the back somewhere, and came back with a new printed sheet stating, "Yes" the rules have changed, but it's easier now and can be done on line, then the tourist will stop in to US customs and they will do the research to verify you were a good boy and preregistered. Officer told me "But it's free, so that's good thing"
I don't know Greg, it gets worse. I stopped in at the Canadian side, to pay my taxes on 6,000 of bear bait, and asked them about this new firearms stuff. 4 officers present, knew not a lick about it.
I've got a call into our Director of our outfitters' association to see where we go with this. Maybe SCI or NRA have more info.
Right on South farm & Pete
Bear Track, From reading your last post, it seems there is a lot of poor communication on any upcoming changes. That is what I experienced in conversations with Canadian customs, US customs, and ATF in Washington. I am a bow hunter, and right now I'm glad I am. BUT there are guys in our party who use guns. My concern and subsequent phone calls are to try to help all hunters planning a trip to Canada this spring. This April 3 date certainly could be a mess if they really try to implement it for this spring. Thanks for your info, and when you hear more... it would be greatly appreciated if you would post again. Thanks..
keep the info coming, I am planning a rifle moose trip to Newfoundland in '16 and it HAS to be a specific heirloom family rifle, for it to be right for me.
Hello Bowsiters.
I've been busy hauling bait up to camp this week and now have a moment to bring you up to date with my checking into this new regulation. Why the US Homeland Security has not made an effort to inform you themselves is another thread, but here is what I got from the Chief of Field Operations DHS/CBP
First off his underlings were not aware that in 2 days of me asking, that they were required to follow new regulations and checks (another thread?)
What they printed for me seems to come from CBP INFO Center Home>Find an Answer>Traveling outside of the US which is printed at the top of the page.
You now must declare your firearms electronically to CBP using the Automated Export System (AES)
More information can be found at http://aesdirect.census.gov/
Hope I've been some help.
I wonder if they changed the AES form. Previously, it required a EIN number. The AES system is for companies Exporting from the U.S. it really isn't designed for individual use. Will be interesting to see how this shakes out. I'm archery bear hunting up North in May, but plan on taking a rifle on a Stone Sheep hunt in July. I guess the bear gun hunters will be the guinnea pigs on this one...
Just checked...To register "your company" you need an EIN number. This is ludicrous.
Having a return trip with rifle for moose in NL I went to the suggested site and printed the answer to the question...Traveling outside of the U.S....Temporarily taking a firearm, rifle, gun, shotgun or ammunition abroad for hunting purposes......
In the first paragraph it states that travelers MUST file their declarations for controlled commodities...guns/ammo at least eight hours prior to departure from the US. The internet application is known as AESDirect.
The CF 4457 form is still ok to show customs that you are returning with the gun you left with.
I am going to connect with the outfitters I hunt or know that clients are going to in Canada as this might well cause problems with spring bear hunters soon.
Seems odd that they would enforce an 'export' things such as this. The website noted an update on 3/26.
Ken...Problem is the AES Direct form is not intended for individual use! Also, I read somewhere in my research that the 4457 is no longer valid for firearms.
Kota. You are correct. I went there and could not figure anything out. You have to be a business or exporter. I went to the Customs website and did the ???/answer thing and the website took me to the same updated document. I cannot believe they are serious about this regulation but all of us caribou hunters probably remember the bovine spongiform brain disease issue though I doubt any of us ever saw a beef cow in the migration. For my trip I will contact officers where I cross to get their input. I would be able to do the prior eight hour trick if needed. Seems they could cause a problem about crossing from what it reads on the site.
See my post above from 3/27. The NSSF (National Shooting Sports Foundation) has received assurances that this is not going forward.
I think the reason for all the conflicting information and confusion is that nothing has been decided yet.
The NSSF says that there will be more information available after mid April meetings.
I hope you're right Ace. Thanks for the info.
Anyone heard any updates on this. Registering on the AESDirect site is not an easy thing even with an EIN number. You have to take a test at the end of it.
Jmail How did you get an EIN number??
I own my own company so I did it under that number. As part of the registration you have to take a 30 question test. I passsed the test and a message came up saying a confirmation email will be sent within 1 hour to activate the account. That was Saturday and I'm still waiting for the email. Maybe they only do it during normal business hours.
Here's my update from my trip to our cabin on Lake of the Woods that to get to, we go threw Warroad, MN and Baudette, Mn. I had to stop in Warroad to ask the questions for fellow Bowsiters. The officers in the building knew nothing of it and this new law is now in effect. Warroad/Sprague border crossing told me they take their orders from Pembina office, which is the one that told me they knew nothing of it but then printed off their own site, the new law.
So in the end the way I see it, the law is there, but seems no one is blinking on who is going to enforce this confusing dilemma. You'd have thought, if the law was going forward, some sort of media publication would have been attempted.
boy does the laws and congress suck. this is just another mess that isn't being handled. I am heading into Canada in less than a month. Have emailed the border patrol but haven't gotten a response yet. the sight says it takes about three weeks to get an answer, and so far I have not got a response back yet. One big screw-up and nobody in government wants to deal with the mess they made it so we get left hanging. Thanks congress
Another of our guys just did the test and passed it ,everyone that's coming into Canada with firearms should get it done they may not bother with implementing it this spring but they might you don't want to get stuck at the boarder with you firearm. Good luck.
Id like to hear from anyone who has applied and successfully received all that is required With this new Firearm Export regulation..
One part that's being overlooked by CBP is reentry. If your town has no CBP officer you have to get the firearm inspected with all the necessary documents. (4457 and AES, EIN numbers before leaving the US.) If you have a connecting flight you must make plans for this necessary step before going to any foreign country. I still do not have the EEI that's required from AES direct.
http://huntforever.org/2015/04/17/sci-member-alert-firearm-export-update/
Sounds like it is not that big of a deal if you have access to a Federal building with Customs, Border patrol. they will inspect your gun, verify ownership and issue the permit. Will check this out with Duluth Customs tomorrow. See you on the tundra. Rory
I have the same questions as MeanMachine. If I leave for Canada from an airport with NO CBP, where do I get inspected?
One answer I've got from a well known Importer/Exporter is that there won't be an inspection in that situation. Does anyone have confirmation that this HAS to be inspected BEFORE you leave the country?
Lots of unknowns at this time. If I was travelling out of the country with a firearm today, I would have a 4457, paperwork from the country I'm going to and a ITN number from AES.
I've got my EIN number. I'm just going to have Fauna and Flora do the rest. THey are experts and charge $75 for their service. I believe Coppersmith is also doing these, and for $50!
Here's an interesting note I copied and pasted off the SCI website concerning mine and MeanMachine's issue:
"The Importance of Advance Planning: An individual can complete his or her AES filing as early as 120 days in advance of his or her trip. By completing the AES registration, the hunter/shooter obtains the Internal Transaction Number (ITN) that he or she will need to present, along with his or her firearms and ammunition, for inspection to a CBP officer at the airport of departure. For those who are starting their travel at airports without CBP offices, the inspection will need to take place at the airport (involved in the travel) where a CBP office is located. Hunters/shooters should make every effort to arrange for adequate time (e.g. several hours) before or between flights to fulfill this inspection requirement. Ignorance of the procedures or avoidable failure to budget adequate time for the inspection will not encourage CBP personnel to assist with an expeditious inspection process."
If this is the case, on my upcoming trip I will leave Bismarck, ND, somehow check my firearm to Minneapolis, in Minneapolis go get my firearm, contact a CBP officer, get it inspected, recheck it and hopefully make my connecting flight to Vancouver. CRAZINESS.
This plan has been aborted by the Govt. Thank the NRA and SCI. See you on the tundra. Rory
As reaper said. Plan was rolled back. Here is an article on it.
