Tra gear, Mech head?
Turkey
I'm going to try and whack a turkey with my recurve [54#,560gr arrow]. I've always used the mech heads in my compound for turkeys- just pummels them...
....anyone done this with Trad gear?
I wouldn't. I'd go with a big snuffer or VPA 3 blade. If you want a huge hole try a Simmons tree shark. I've never had a problem with dropping turkeys with those heads. I've heard some guys use a rage or something similar but a stick bow just doesn't have enough behind it for my tastes.
Such an unholy pairing might throw the universe out of whack. Better check with Stephen Hawking before you try it. :)
Hey, BTM, too funny.....I'm with you. Thats why I didn't post on Leatherwall
I think it should work fine, but I don't know exactly how much arrow speed enters the equation in regards to them operating as designed.
Only one way to find out. :)
That would be cool!!!! Please keep us posted.
You could do it, but it would be a disgrace! :-)
Bruce, you'll be fine. If I hunt turkeys I'm doing the same thing. Turkeys aren't elk.
But PLEEEEASE post this over on the Leatherwall! PLEEEASE! Those guys need something to get their leather underpants all in a wad.
BTW, my hunting partner accidentally shot an elk with a mech he had in his quiver to try on a coyote. 53# recurve, 450 grain arrow. It killed the bull but only got about half penetration. If it will go halfway through an elk, I'm pretty sure it will do-in a silly bird.
Now Now Jaq. I hangout on the leatherwall on occasion and don't have leather underpants. Now my GF that's another story.
Tracker, I admire you for admitting that on the "bowhunting" forum. As long as they don't know you come over here, you'll be ok. But you do put on a quaint little fedora before you log on to the Leatherpanty Wall, don't you? :-)
A guy I used to shoot with back in the day has killed a pile of deer with Spitfires off his recurve. Yes, A pile! Have fun with the turkeys.
I killed one with a field tip off my longbow back in the day.
A pic of my bow with some mech heads in the quiver on LW should do it
Well I've been shooting trad for over 20 years and hang out at the Leatherwall as well as here, so here's my $.02.
I wouldn't use a mechanical head for turkeys for some very simple reasons. Turkeys are tougher than most folks think and I want my broadhead to get into them. If you hit the wing root with a mechanical you'll bounce off the bird. A good single bevel or any cut on contact head will give you a much better chance of getting the penetration that would kill the bird.
The other point I would make is that my antipathy towards mechanicals is reflected in the fact that I don't want to worry about them opening upon contact. I know, I know all you mech guys will slam me on this, but I NEVER worry about my Buzz Cuts opening, because they always are.
Finally, I would suggest that you look at something called a "Grasshopper". It's like the spring things on a Judo point but it mounts behind the broadhead and slides up the shaft keeping the arrow IN the bird, not giving you a complete pass through. Turkeys don't bleed a lot and the arrow remaining in the bird will inhibit the bird as is runs away.
Good luck on your hunt, and don't worry about the guys who aren't good enough to shoot a real bow. Some day they will be standing there admiring your accomplishment.
TBB
What guys should Beendare not worry about who aren't good enough to shoot a "real bow", whatever that is?
What I see on this thread are trad shooters giving honest opinions. Turkeys aren't as tough as a deer or an elk. Not even Alabama turkeys. Unless you're shooting a child's bow, a mech will do just fine on any sort of bird.
Hey Bob, good advice thx...I'm going to look for those grasshoppers
I agree this should be on Leatherwall.. Should last about an hour before being locked lol
Unfortunately this thread wouldnt last long on Leatherwall, it would be entertaining while it was on though!
I know I never get as much penetration on turkeys as I do deer. I could pass through deer all day long with Spitfires but never a turkey. Those wing feathers offer a lot more of a shield than one imagines and I believe that maybe their soft body tends to compress a bit and their lighter weight causes the impact to push their whole body, all of which contribute to less penetration.
I personally wont use them but I certainly am not an expert on all things turkey. I'm sure some designs are better than others.
tradmt, that's the point of the Muzzy Grasshopper, which is to keep the arrow in the bird, as Tradbowbob mentions.
Some of us don't shoot "real bows" because we want to kill animals at more than 2o yards
TBB, you done good, you about got the boilers up to a full head of steam. :>)
Have done it and will do it again this year...go for it
I think Tradbowbob might have been referring to guys who aren't good enough to hunt with a longbow (real bow), so they have to use a recurve as a crutch.
There are infinite degrees of snobbery within the world of trad elitism.
I've killed 4 turkeys with Rage 2 inch 2 blade from 62 pound compound and gold tip 55-70 arrows. I have not had any complete pass through. Turkeys can really stop an expandable head.
The only reason I shoot mechanicals on turkeys is because of the wider cutting edge and a relatively small kill zone.
Grasshoppers are mostly a thing of the past, check the thread that was on here a month of so ago.
I want penetration of a wide head.
Most guys that wanted the arrow still in the turkey were back in the day when they were trying to figure out where to shoot them, and most were shooting too low.
Put a big cut through the thighs, or ribs, and it's a dead turkey and you don't need a lot of penetration.
I wouldn't worry in the least about using an MBH on a turkey with your set-up, but I wouldn't go overboard on the cutting diameter. You won't be bouncing an arrow of a bird. It is more sensible to use BH cutting diameter than a device like a grasshopper to limit penetration.
Got under your skin didn't I Jaquomo? Just meaning a little friendly funnin!
TBB
Use a good sharp 2 blade, hit them in the right spot and you will be just fine. With a compound you have enough energy for the head to open upon impact and get sufficient penetration on the bird, sometimes not the case with a traditional setup. When I used to shoot a compound, I would use an expandable on turkey's and open the head up before the shot, I never lost a bird with it and would blow through turkey's, that was with 80lbs though. Now I shoot a sharp Zwickey delta with either my 50lb recurve or longbow and I haven't had any problems with penetration or recovering the bird. Do what you feel is right but you can't go wrong with a big, sharp 2 blade.
Doesn't bother me personally Bob. I've been shooting longbows and recurves for 50 years and have killed more big animals with them, hunting on the ground, than most compound hunters I know.
Fun is fun. But yes, trad snob bigotry does get under my skin because it reinforces the stereotype among many of our modern hunting friends that we're a bunch of no-killing arrogant jerks. Which, sadly, is true of many so-called "trad" shooters.
Agree Jaquomo. I've never shot a compound in my life but it makes me cringe every time some DONKEY pukes out a compound bashing line based on ignorance. 99 out of a 100 "trad" (hate that word) guys are former compound guys and to cop an attitude just shows a lack of intelligence. Most armchair experts over on Leatherwall like to give advise without the actual experience and I'll call them out on it when they do. I was going to say something about Bob's comments but I figured it was just a guy typing after a bit to much alcohol and I figured someone would tell him to shut up.
The only bow snobs that had anything to say about a "real bow" are the guys make their own equipment from hacking down a tree for a stave to knapping their own heads but those guys have enough class not to be bashing.
Sensitive subject I guess
I killed a New Mexico mule deer with a G5 Tekan out of my 56# Bob Lee on a Easton Redline 460 in 2006, just to shut some of the guys on Tradgang the heck up. At 27 yards, the head was sticking out the other side. Like most mule deer, he covered almost a hundred yards, but it was a great blood trail...
Match the head to the animal, and pick a head that has a cut on contact head. Look at the tip on the Rage KE....It might just work. You don't need single bevel heads or two bladed heads to kill turkeys or elk with a stick bow. I get so tired of reading this. Last year, using a 100 grain Wac'em, I shot clear through my bird and it hung up on the feathers. Soon someone is going to say you need cedar shafts to penetrate turkeys...
Buglemin, turkeys are big, tough birds. Everyone knows you need at least a 600 grain arrow with an Ashby head and minimum of 60# KE to bring one down.
;)
Lou, I've yet not been able to figure out this "real bow" thing. And I cant understand why some guys think that killing a gobbler with a stickbow is so hard. I'm surprised I got the penetration I did cause my arrows didn't weigh 600 grains, weren't EFOC, and I didn't have a single edged broadhead. And to think that now I'm shooting a lil 48# recurve with 30" .600 spine shafts that don't weigh over 360 grains... How am I ever going to be able to do it?
Nice bird Buglmin, great job.
Look, you're looking at no more than six inches of meat, skin, feathers and, hopefully, organs that needs to be penetrated if you put your shot on the mark.
About anything that'll even scratch a whitetail will do that.
The EXCEPTIONS, are those birds in Alabama. You have to have enough KE, and some kind of tank-buster type broadhead, to get through the Harvard diploma they always carry in their pockets and that high-tech radar gear that the DOD stole from them!
I know turkeys can be tough with low energy equipment.
I think it was one of those Primos TV episodes where one of the old guys shooting from a blind with a compound hit a turkey and his arrow bounced back--if thats on YouTube and anyone has the link please post.
Just comparing the thump of arrows hitting the target between my 500gr compound arrow and my 560/580 [dep on BH] stickbow arrow is night and day different. I think i'm going to use a big Snuffer and be done with it.
Wow! Some real butt sore individuals here.
Beendare, the things I eluded to in my previous post, IMO, is why penetration on turkeys is often less than deer, or even elk for that matter.
I'm sure certain types of mechs can work quite well but using the Snuffer is probably a better choice.
Good luck on the birds.
I wouldn't use the jackknife style mechanicals. I cart wheeled one of them off a tom shooting him from behind as he was walking off. I use trad gear and I have bows that could probably h handle a rage KE just fine but the big Simmons heads have almost as big of cutting width and they look way cooler!
Turkeys don't play by the rules, so why should we? This year, Im using the DRT head, and Im really liking it so far...
OK guys, if I offended some of you I apologize. I was trying for a joke, and guess I fell short.
TBB
Bunched panties are no joke Bob. LOL
Shoot whatever you like...nobody's business but yours. I grew up with sticks...shot compounds thru the 70's...then went back to "trad". Primarily recurves, but have a couple longbows hanging about.
I shoot recurves because I like them...period. Yeah...you gotta pay yer dues to become proficient, but that's part of the fun.
Afraid I can't help with the mechanicals, I've never used them...I do like Zwickey delta 2 blade...just my preference.
But, to each his own...eh?
Buglmin...your broadhead matches your arrows and our bow.
You're so fashion conscious! :-)
Sorry if I missed the joke. I don't go on the Leatherwall so I don't get the nuanced bowhunter bashing thing if someone doesn't use approved equipment. Some of my best friends shoot compounds but I like them anyway. I even hunt with a couple of them. They are almost human, seems like.
Recurve shooters who hunt out of treestands are pansy weenies who couldn't hunt their way out of a paper bag.. Is that a ground hunter longbow joke? Ahhh hahaha!
Lou, WOW, now you went and done, cause I have a friend that has a friend that knows somebody that swears that shooting deer out of a stand is a lot harder then walking up to them on the ground.... In fact, he wrote an article on it fot TBM!! He's killed three deer in ten years, and is now a certified expert!!
writer, you should see my camo!! Haven't seen or taked to you in a while now.
Didn't think about the camo, too, Buglmin.
Hope all's well.
Many of you are guilty of everything you are saying about some of the users over on the Leatherwall. If you want to see who is being disrespectful and intolerant of other opinions, just look in the mirror!
Man people are testy anymore, you can ask for all the advice you want but if you have an idea you are generally going to try it anyway! Experience is always the best teacher! Good luck.
Lol.... Disrespectful? Who, me? The only thing I disrespect is guys saying that the only way to be successful is by doing things their way...
Experience is the true teacher, and when it fails, there will always be the na sayers standing there saying they told you so... But when the experiment is successful, the na sayers won't be there apologizing cause their opinion was wrong. In this day and age, everyone, with little or no experience, is an expert cause they've read the books and seen the videos on YouTube. Heck, over on facebook on the traditional page, there is a guy that's been shooting trad equipment for four months making videos trying to teach and offer his advice!!
But anyways, back to using mechanical heads for hunting turkeys with a trad bow.... If you want to try it, do it. But be fair when you come on here to tell us your experience. Don't hide facts,. Take only great shots, and get them in close.... Heck, one year in Oklahoma, Jim Dougherty talked us into using snarl points and shooting them in the head. The trick was that you had to get up and rush them once you hit them. If you didn't, after a couple seconds of wing flapping, they'd be up and running off...
Writer, if is good. Miss your writing, you need to take out the old type writer or word processor again... Bulls are still bugling here in the San Juan's, just a lil quieter without Judd Cooney being in the woods. Seems you can always feel his presence when you're in the Fish Creek area...
Buglmin, I'm still writing about the outdoors for a living, just got away from the magazines and settled in with a newspaper. Check the link.
Haven't hunted elk since 2003, sad to say, but life is great.
Wow, I sure hope nobody asks if it's okay to use a knapped head out of a crossbow!
Brodsky, I just reported you to the trad police!! Ask Lou, once they start interogating you, you'll confess to everything... You'll be shunned!!
I plan to hunt with a Black Widow PSA goldtip arrow and a Thunderhead 125. oops! Sorry! That Broadhead is not trad! Please forgive me. I get good flight with it from my bow.
I just reported each and every one of you to the Trad Police. I'm sorry, but you guys gotta learn.
Use whatever you want. I'm no expert but I've killed over 30 turkeys with both heavy compounds and longbows in the 55# range. I've used all sorts of heads. In my experience turkeys are way tougher than deer. I count on one hand the birds I've passed through and out of over 150 deer or so, I can count on one hand the ones I didn't pass through. I saved this rib cage of a big Tom I shot years back. He was under 20 yards facing away from me on the edge of a ridge. At the shot he flew/ glided over 150 yards down hill. The bow was a hoyt ultra tec set just a little over 75 pounds. I was shooting well tuned heavy aluminum arrows and wasp sst heads. The arrow barely penetrated the sternum when coming in from behind. It was a great shot but I was surprised because that set up had no problem blowing right through deer at 60+ yards.
Several years back, hunting in NE w/Fred Eichler's outfit, we had a hunter in camp literally bounce an expandable off of the turkey. Broke the wing, bird ran, lost. Land owner/rancher banned them from that day forward. I could care less, as most of the hunters I know, what bh is at the tip of your arrow, be it wood, alum or carbon. Lot of resentment, guys. I guess some traditionalist must have beat you as a child. I'm a hunter and I hunt w/other hunters. Period.
I know of several Trad guys using the Bull Heads and Guillotines. For me I am using a big old snuffer out of my Longbow.
I shot one once with a Guillotine from my recurve. Since they don't provide any practice heads, taking a practice shot effectively meant wrecking $10 head. Big mistake on my part. The arrow spiraled and hit the Tom square in the 12 ring.
I later learned from Dwight Schuh (never mentioned by the Guillotine people) that you have to use overspined arrows to get them to fly right.
