Broad Head Test.
Equipment
Finishing up my broadhead test. Just have torture test to do. Interesting so far though as you will see 2 blade broadheads didn't penetrate as well as I thought. It seems from the tests that it is a fine line between creating a path that makes the least resistance and to much. An off brand broadhead is in the lead so far which blows my mind. I spent a lot of time, money, and energy on this so I could find a great broadhead that is durable, accurate, and hopefully isn't the most expensive. This is non biased and will be a lot of information that will cover a lot of broadheads but not even close to all of them. Hopefully someone will find this information useful too.
Things tested were how the broadheads flew at 30 yds out of a bow that was sighted in and tuned to a FP.
Penetration.
Durability.
Can't wait to see the results
Please include edge retention in your durability test. It is the most overlooked criteria when evaluating broadheads.
Finally a topic that everyone always agrees on! :) Good luck - looking forward to results.
Olink, sure will. The durability of all of the heads was remarkable so far. Penetration fluctuated a little over 2 tests with some broadheads then some were super consistent. They will be rated on a points scale for every test and if people dont like that test they can just not add those points. The least amount of points wins.
Did you test out the Ram Cat 125 grain? its the most accurate head I have ever shot, and its devastating on hits...... just curious
Give us a list of the heads you tested so we can keep our eyes peeled on this thread.
No Ram Cat. I only used 100 grain heads as well. I tried to use the ramcats but messed up and bought deep six ramcats. Couldnt return them either. There are so many, so I picked big debate items, penetration debate items, and broadheads that had good reviews online That was the end of my budget.
Heads Used:
-Field Point -Spitfire Standard -Muzzy Phantom -Shwacker 2" -Original Rage 2" -Ulmer Edge -Rage Hypodermic -Magnus Black Hornet Ser Razor -G-5 Havoc -G-5 Striker -G-5 Montec Cold Steal -Flying Arrow Archery Toxic -Shuttle T-Lock -Hartcraft Deepcut -Slick Trick Mag -NAP Hell Razor -Red Head Blackout
Penetration into what medium?
"Things tested were how the broadheads flew at 30 yds out of a bow that was sighted in and tuned to a FP." so was the bow broadhead tuned and were the arrows spined tuned? if not this catagory doesnt mean anything valuable imo. just curious
VPA! ??? Solid Steel usually meets my durability test over pot welded heads.
I am curious about the FP tune as well. The Bow not being tuned can affect penetration considerably.
I can see out of the package sharpness being critical. However a solid COC type head not so much. Why have a razor sharp broad head for broad head tuning? A person needs to shoot them, sharpen them then go hunting.
I agree a head like a VPA would rank high on durability.
Why don't we all just wait until the criteria and results are published, instead of questioning results and methods that we don't even know yet.
Trkyslr. Just what the phase says, Tuned to a FP. I am not going to broadhead tune to 16 broadheads, if it means nothing to you fine. The reason I did that was because most companys claim their heads fly exactly like a field point, or say field point accuracy, or the most accurate broadhead on the market (compared to what) they dont say you have to broadhead tune, which is a problem a lot of young and some experience people fall into. I have a friend and his son wounded 3 deer last year and he didnt know why so I asked him if he was practicing with broadheads and he said no. I asked why and he said my broadheads fly like field points. It says on the package or website. So I wanted to see how many come close and Remember this test was for me, I am just sharing with the Forum to hopefully help someone not fall into some pitfalls the some of us have during our bowhunting life. I only practice with broadheads once I get to that point. Mt. Man. VPA seem great and would work well I am sure Is a Montec Cold steel pot melted or Magnus?. Just didnt have the budget. Snapcrackpop. I had 2, plastic 50 gallon garbage cans inside of each other filled with water for one, for the the second I touch a 3/4 inch horse stall mat and put 2 pieces of 1/8 shower board then another 3/4 inch horse stall mat and bolted togther. I hung them on a plastic frame.
Trkyslr. Read below, not one says you have to broadhead tune not one says you have to make any adjustment. Says it flies like a FP. Thats why it means something, because they dont unless you tune them for it. To someone like you that might be really well versed in bow tuning its a no brainer but many are not and continue to make mistakes because they believe what they read, so I wanted to check for myself and hopefully countless others on this site that might In their opinion learn something. Here are a few with the claims.
Straight from "muzzy:Phantom 4 Blade 100 Grain 1 1/8" Cut .036" Main Blade .028" Bleeder Blade 3 pack Phantom Broadheads are known for their bone splitting penetration, razor sharp blades, field point accuracy and mass..."
Straight from Slick Trick With the largest cutting diameter in the line, the Grizz Trick offers exceptional holes and devastating performance. A great option for long-range shooters, this head flies true with field point-like accuracy even while stretching the distance. Everything you would expect with unrivaled Slick Trick durability, strength and slice.
I'm not sure these experiments mean a whole lot in the grand scheme of things, but I do enjoy seeing what happens. Thanks for posting!
MD,
Absolutely no disrespect intended whatsoever but I have to agree with trkyslyr. I would have thought you would at least tune the bow as well as possible to give the test more validity. If it is not tuned properly, the results are truly of less value. Yes, the company's do claim the broadheads will hit right with field points but the unwritten assumption is that your bow is tuned. No broadhgead is that good that it will fly well out of an untuned bow. If the arrow isn't coming out of the bow on the proper plain, all bets are off.
Thanks for sharing all your work though. I am still very interested.
Jim
Jim, I did think about that but, as you see there are a lot of mechanicals in there and a few fixed that did truly fly like my field point. So If I tune it to one, then what about the others??? That was what I wanted to see, some do actually fly like they claim. The bow was tuned really well and is shooting really nice and is perfectly papertuned and walk back tuned with FP's.
He is saying his bow IS TUNED to field points.
I think this is solid logic. If the every day Joe wants to tune his bow to field-points, practice like crazy, and then pick a broadhead that will require the least amount of re-siting/re-tuning/etc. while offering penetration and durability, than this study will provide him with some good guidance.
For the expert/pro archer, you already know what works for you and what you like anyway, so just disregard. No reason to criticize why this does not fit your preferences.
Looking forward to your results. Thanks for taking the time.
A properly tuned bow should shoot field points and all broadheads to the same point of impact. Mine does. If it doesn't, it's not tuned.
BackStraps is correct. I didnt just go buy a bow and start testing it, it says in the forum a few times the bow is tuned. I just didnt broadhead tune since it would not be fair to tune it to one specific head when some do fly very well compared to field points.
" A properly tuned bow should shoot field points and all broadheads to the same point of impact "
no - not in the real world
I like destruction tests ... I like seeing Rage blades shear off and tips crumple etc.
A broadhead that does'nt fly like a field point is because the bow/arrow combo was'nt really tuned to begin with, in most cases.
"A broadhead that does'nt fly like a field point is because the bow/arrow combo was'nt really tuned to begin with, in most cases."
Agreed. And/or poor form on the part of the archer.
"Agreed. And/or poor form on the part of the archer."....And thats just yet another variable to further bunk results.
The entertainment value is high in most of these broadhead tests but they lack the strict control and immense amounts of time spent and shots fired needed for any kind of definitive results. Interested in the results none the less.
I think if most would shoot arrows 50 or so grains heavier and a couple inches longer and 4" fleching most of the penetration, tuning and irregular fixed head flight problems would disappear. Just my own opinion based on my own experiences.
I understand why you did the test, but also agree with others. If you are trying to make value judgements on the penetratingb ability of different styles of broadheads, it is meaningless unless you know that the arrows are flying straight and all other variables are controlled as much as possible.
It is still interesting but I do agree that unless all are flying straight and true the test does not mean a whole lot. Guys who shoot field points and than just screw on a broad head of any design and go hunt should not be hunting in my opinion. I also agree that a bow that is perfectly tuned with field points should shoot a broadhead to the same point unless there is an inherent flaw in the broadhead. I kind of agree with tradmt about shooting higher point weight but disagree about shooting a longer arrow or more fletching. I find most folks are over spined and could get much better flight just by adding more point weight. This is ecspecially true of traditional shooters. I think the test will be pretty cool but may not have the value some hope it does. Shawn
The longer arrow gives the fletch more leverage, more control which may or may not be needed. A lot of things happen when taking a hunting shot, maybe form isnt perfect, trigger punching, death grip torque etc. etc. et......
I think what is gained by the greater control out weighs the loss in speed in hunting situations.
I see what the thread owner is getting at. If a broadhead on the package reads that they are field point accurate, what is to keep the novice archer/bowhunter from getting a pack from their local WalMart and expecting them to perform when WE ALL know that you need to spend time in verifying your broadhead has good flight.
Sometimes when someone disses a product (poor flight or poor penetration), could it very well be the possibility that the arrow/broadhead combo did not fly properly giving inaccurate or misleading conclusions?
Some broadheads do indeed fly like field points right out of the package, no "tuning" needed. One of those is not listed among the test subjects.
may be you should have tried Woodsman, or magnus snuffer. to be fare cut on contact heads should get in every test. I found out the difference they make and wow.
I understand now were the op is coming from now. To be truely informative is the heads that dont do so well that can be affected by an unbroadhead tuned bow. Shoot them again with a broad head tuned bow.
Going to do this in segments first. I could not find any other way to post so I had to take a pic of my excel and post that way.
The longer arrow gives the fletch more leverage, more control which may or may not be needed. A lot of things happen when taking a hunting shot, maybe form isnt perfect, trigger punching, death grip torque etc. etc. et.....tradmt
True on the longer lever arm with a longer arrow, and will add that a higher FOC will give a longer lever arm also! I still didn't see where it said what the medium was for the penetration tests, did I miss that?
4th OP post. Bottom of 2nd paragraph
"Snapcrackpop. I had 2, plastic 50 gallon garbage cans inside of each other filled with water for one, for the the second I touch a 3/4 inch horse stall mat and put 2 pieces of 1/8 shower board then another 3/4 inch horse stall mat and bolted togther. I hung them on a plastic frame."
MD,
That type of tuning should make the test pretty valid. When some guys say tuned for FPs, it simply means they shoot them and they fly well. I like the tuning concept from KJC. One should be able to tune a fp to a BH and then be right for all BHs. Thanks for the feed back. Looking forward to your results.
Jim
Jtek, those are my thoughts, now I pretty much guarantee that anyone with the best tuned bow out their get 17 diff type of BH's and show me that they will all fly the same. Not gonna happen.
"Not gonna happen."
Interesting. Why not?
Properly tuned bow.
Properly spined arrows.
Matched weight broadheads.
Fired from a Hooter Shooter (no human error)
Why wouldn't they all fly the same?
Again, unless I misunderstand the whole testing process employed, broadheads that claim to fly true necessarily won't in real life scearios without some tweeking affecting penetration ability. I've yet to see someone in the woods carrying a Hooter Shooter around.
Put a little Woodys or Arrow Snot on the arrow you want the BH to outperform the others
Not all arrows are tight enough in tolerances to hit the same hole when shot from a Hoote Shooter. We see this all the time when playing with arrows. This is where you see the difference in an arrow with .001 straightness compared to an arrow with .006 straightness. This is why when we do our tests, we use a shooting machine, to do away with all human influence. Seen too many guys posting YouTube videos short drawing or over drawing, then comparing results, saying how much better their favorite broadheads did compared to others...
Lots of guys do broadhead tests, and all have different results. And this thing about once a bow is properly tuned, all broadhead should fly exactly the same as field points....
My point is that if the bow is tuned properly the arrows all fly the same. If I'm wrong please explain how. If arrows have a different point of impact because of poor release or torque or some other shooter induced malady, than it doesn't matter what broadhead is on the end of the arrow. You can wind up with variations in point of impact and penetration using one type of broadhead or even consecutive shots with the same broadhead.
I think there could be slight aerodynamic differences when taking into account shape and design of point, blade angle and thickness, length of point and such, but thats where a more stable, forgiving platform comes in to help keep the arrow on its intended course.
A properly spined arrow will hit where it is pointed when launched from a centershot bow unless acted upon by other forces. Imperfect head alignment/blade alignment can impart a steering effect and if the fletching cant induce enough drag to overcome this you end up with different impact points between broadheads and field points.
I can see where you might find some heads that are built to better tolerences than others but without a Hooter Shooter your test wont give you any definitive answers really but we dont hunt with Hooter Shooters either so utilizing a good quality stable arrow design will tame the bow and the beast.
Looking forward to the results. Interesting reasoning behind your method,makes sense.
I just want to see the results....I don't care if he threw them into the target with his non-dominant arm. Hunting season is over for me until August, I got time!
tradmt, this is true bit creates other problems like arrow spine. I know for a fact the aboriginal tribes of Australia and african tribes shot very long shafts 36-40"s and sometimes longer, they recovered or went thru paradox differently and straightened out quicker regardless of point weight, lots of times no point weight. I just believe as others have stated if the arrow is not tuned to each head the results can be very misleading. Look at Dr, Ashby's reports. I will take a 3 on 1 design like my VPA's anytime on any game I shoot. Also high FOC will help with tuning a broadhead as it a heavy, heavy head does not steer as much as it pull the arrow along. Shawn
I need some of those "pull-the-arrow-along" broadheads! That is an interesting concept for sure but doubt they are legal in many states. Sounds like rocket science.
Just messing with your description of how the broadhead helps control the arrow Deer-hunter!
I haven't found a 100 grain head yet that won't hit with my FP's as long as they spin true. Proof enough for me that it is possible to use any well made head(spins true) once the bow is tuned "properly".
No disrespect intended, but those who say it can't be done need to do some more learnin'.
clearly x-man is talking about me, given how I was tuning last week and broke a brand new shaft when I was bare-shafting a BH... :)
MDcrazyman, first I'd like to know more about your handle. The MD part...
Your favorite beverage is Mad Dog,
You're nuts about Mule Deer,
Or, you're from Maryland?
Seriously, I'm curious to see what the results show because your testing methodology seems valid. I like the way that you're not tuning to each broadhead - this way you'll be able to measure the manufacturers' claims of whether or not they actually do fly like a field point.
When you're done testing the 100 grain heads that are so popular for whitetails I'd be curious if you would use the same methods to test the heads that are typically used for really big game. Heads like VPA, ABowyer, Alaska Bowhunting, Steelforce, etc. Of course, they should be tested as they are typically used in weights of 200 grains or more on a shaft with high FOC too.
I'm looking forward to seeing your results! Thanks!
Elk Stabber. I am from ND originally and ended up in this god for saken place (Maryland) through the military. The crazy part is from most people tell me I have something wrong with me because of my sense of humor that I always take things to a crazy place way over any line. I find it interesting that on my first findings not one person said anything about the broadheads not weighing what they claim.
KJC you should do that test as you seem to tune your bow that good. Let us know.
"KJC you should do that test as you seem to tune your bow that good. Let us know."
I already have, to an extent.
The broadheads I currently have on hand are:
Muzzy 209 4 blade 100 gr.
Magnus buzzcut 4 blade 100 gr.
Slick Trick viper trick 4 blade 100 gr.
Trophy Taker Shuttle t-lock 3 blade 100gr
Swacker 2 blade 100 gr.
Trophy Taker Ulmer edge 2 blade 100 gr.
Original Rage 2 blade 100 gr.
Shooting Easton A/C/C 300 29 1/8" 3 fletch with Blazer vanes out of a 2009 70 lb PSE X-Force with 2012 EVO cams 29" draw.
All broadheads fly to the same POI out to 30 yards. No resighting or retuning necessary.
Good, do you have video of that?. Did the Torture test today. Another result coming this evening. Rage hypodermic actually stood up ok compared to some. It was really interesting to see how some excelled shooting into different surfaces and some didnt. The design helps and hurts in some instances I guess.
So this is the distance test that got everyone in a tissy. I shot 2 shots, most shots were stacked on top of each other just a little left or right or up or down. They were measured from a nail at the exact middle of the bullseye. The 2 shot distances were added together to get the inches away from dead center that you see on the results. They were ranked with the number on the left. All tests will be ranked and added up at the end.
Sorry as I have to take it off an excel spread sheet and put it in a word dog then take a pic of it to post.
Actually Jack, no, I wasn't talking about you. ;)
I had forgotten about that til now. How is that project going?
Were you shooting them, or was a machine shooting the arrows?? If you, isn't there a lot of room for error?
I was, the arrows were stacking well, if one would be really off I would shoot a third to ensure it wasnt me. I dont believe there is a ton of room for error as I shoot so much and have really consistent groups. There is room for some error though.
All broadheads spun true after this penetration test.
Did you try Wac Em broadheads?
No Ermine, just the ones listed.
Torture Test Penetration.
Overall Results with all categories. All tests were given a score even the weight. So I will give an overall test results with that score then a score minus the weight and finally a score minus the weight and distance shooting since it is subjective. First
Overall with combined score.
1. Red Head Black out (19) 2. Shuttle T Lock (25) 3. Magnus Black Hornet Ser Razor (27) 4. Slick Trick Magnum (32) 5. G-5 Striker (36) 6. Montec Cold Steel (40) 7. Nap Hell Razor (46) 8. Rage Hypodermic (49) 9. Schwacker 2" (50) 10. Muzzy Phantom (54) 11. Ulmer Edge (55) 12. Original Rage (59) 13. G-5 Havoc (66) 14. Toxic (69) 15. Hartcraft Deep Cut (73) 16. NAP Spitfire. (79)
Score Minus scoring for Weight Discrepancy.
1. Red Head Blackout (17) 2. Magnus Black Hornet Ser Razor (21) 3. Shuttle T Lock (22) 4. Slick Trick (28) 5. G-5 Striker, Montec Cold Steel (35) 6. Schwacker 2" (36) 7. NAP Hell Razor (39) 8. Muzzy Phantom (42) 9. Ulmer Edge (44) 10. Rage Hypodermic (46) 11. Original Rage (50) 12. Hartcraft Deep Cut (58) 13. FAA Toxic (61) 14. NAP Spitfire (66)
Score minus weight & distance performance.
1. Red Head Blackout (16) 2. Magnus Black Hornet Ser Razor (17) 3. Shuttle T Lock (20) 4. Slick Trick Magnum (27) 5. Montec Cold Steel (28) 6. G-5 Stricker (29) 7. Schwacker & NAP Hell Razor (33) 8. Ulmer Edge (37) 9. Rage Hypodermic (39) 10. Muzzy Phantom (41) 11. Original Rage (44) 12. G-5 Havoc (51) 13. Hartcraft Deep Cut (53) 14. FAA Toxic (54) 15. NAP Spitfire (60
Red Head Black out Toxic. $29.99
The reason I chose this head as it had great reviews on Bass Pro. When I got it I thought it was just a cheaper version of the G-5 Striker which I had used for years until I realized a flaw with the striker. I figured this head would fold like a lawn chair and would suck but it was the little engine that could out penetrating the big dogs most of the time. It is a great durable head. It was one of only 4 heads that spun true after everything. A few blades were bent but overall a very durable head that flew and penetrated great!
2. Magnus Black Hornet Ser Razor $36.99
The only reason I had this broadhead in the test was because Bou'Bound and I were having some disagreements about broadhead tests and going back and forth as usual with his short & discouraging comments. I asked him to tell me which magnus to try since I wasn't going to try any and he kept saying how nothing would come close but he never responded (might have been mad). So I picked one as I wanted another 2 blade since everyone thought they penetrated better. So here we are, first and foremost I am very glad I picked this broadhead and even though Bou and I never really get along I do respect him as someone with a lot of experience. This head did not win all of the penetration tests, it performed average on the first 2 but on the plywood it destroyed it. the back of the plywood exploded when this head hit, I was impressed. It is a very durable head that spun true and came out unscathed. I like it because it was a bigger cut than the other top performers at 1.25" with bleeders a little more damage. This head also flew really really good out of the box and I really really like the warranty. Even though it did not win I think the warranty makes it the best out of the bunch. It is the head I am going to use.
3. Trophy Taker Shuttle T Lock $34.99
As it showed I have killed a few deer with this head, it worked very well and creates a good wound channel. I thought it would be close and it was. This head is very durable and survived very well. Blades were not bent and intact but it did not spin true after the wood. It had a very slight wobble to it but overall a great flying/penetrating head that works great.
Slick Trick Magnum $29.99
This head stood up really really well and looks brand new still. Really good edge retention, it just struggled with penetration compared to the top 3, seemd like pushing 4 blades was just a lot. This broadhead flew nice and I love the way the blades lock in, it also was one of few that spun true after everything. For the price its tough to beat unless your the redhead. Great head at a great price.
Montec Cold Steal $44.99
I was really thinking this would be my next broadhead. Edge was not quite as sharp as some but it was sharp. Head seemed very durable and looked like a tank as it was a solid one piece. I thought it would definitely be one of the last. This head did not penetrate like I thought it would it did ok but on all tests it did not outperform most which was a big let down. It did hold up really well with only a slight wobble after the torture test but I did not expect that from this head. $45 is a lot for a head that doesnt outperform.
Did you loosen and re-tighten the heads that wobbled after to wood test?
The Striker and Red Head visually appear to be very similar (having never inspected either), to the point I had assumed they were in essence the same head with some very minor differences in machining in order to differentiate them in the market. What is the flaw with the Striker that the Red Head does not have?
Just think how much more force it takes to push those steep blade angles through plywood, or any medium for that matter.
Why not test some better profiles like the Stinger and VPA heads? Based on the angle of attack alone I would not choose any of your top performing heads.
G-5 Striker. $39.99
This head used to be my go to head. I have killed a lot of things with it and it has performed well for me but I started to look else wear when I noticed the feral was not spinning after I would shoot this broadhead a lot. I was perplexed at how it would not spin true or have some wobble after shooting a foam target over time. Or after going through one doe. As you might have noticed it was the only broadhead that did not spin true after the second penetration test. I have had a lot of success with this head but I want something more durable, the blades were bent after torture (not to badly) and it really wobbled.
Cool test. I did a similar test many years ago. Not sure the test have any true reliability but...they are fun and gave me a higher level of confidence. I now use Slick Trich standard and they work well for me.
Matt yes I did. The striker has a longer and thinner feral with an hour glass shape that in the middle might make it weak. The Red head is thicker and doesn't taper into a weak point but gets thicker.
Trad, no kidding it takes force to push through, the stinger and ser razor arent that far off. I am not a VPA fan at this point. IF you want to test them then test them. What makes those profiles better?????? Prove they are better or be quiet, you just cant say they are better because anyone can say that. Prove it or stop talking about it. A straight 2 blade sucked, muzzy phantom was horrible. Dude you have had nothing but criticism. If you dont like how I did it then go do your own and post it, but quit trolling and writing stuff that is irrelevant. "Based on the angle of attack alone I would not choose any of your top performing heads".
Shwacker 2" $35.99
I have also used this head for awhile and had great success but I think it has a weak feral. Overall it performed better than the other expandables but I will not be using them after this test as I see issues with expandables. It had some pretty good wobble after the plywood test but it did function as advertised and the blades bent slightly but held up well. Not a bad head, best performing expandable.
NAP Hell Razor. $39.99
I have killed one big bodied buck with this head and ti worked pretty good. I did break a weld on a head shooting it into a block target practicing shortly after so I moved away from it. Much like the cold steal this head did not penetrate like I thought it would. It was pretty tough and sharp but it had a slight wobble after the torture test. Not a bad head.
Trophy Taker Ulmer Edge $44.99
I have killed one deer with this head and it performed well on the deer. It is a good sharp head with a bit of a smaller cutting diameter 1 1/2" for an expandable. It handled well in the test and only had a slight wobble at the end with the blades being bent a little. Something I do not like about the design are the wings that deploy the head, they block cutting surface and I think they hurt the head a lot because your plowing about 1 inch of non cutting surface. My 2 cents.
MD spends over $600 purchasing broadbeads for HIS own personal test and is kind enough to share it with everyone who reads his post. I don't see anywhere is his posts where he states he is a professional broadbead tester or professional archer. Why can't everyone just appreciate the fact that he is sharing HIS test? If you want a certain broadbead tested, I'm sure he would let you purchase them, mail it to him and he will test it for you.
Rage Hypodermic $44.99
This head for the price was ok. I have tried to hunt with it once but the stupid shock collars didn't work for anything. Although it wasn't the best performer the feral is strong and did spin true after everything. The blades bend a decent amount but it was lot sturdier than the original.
Brijake. I certainly would test it for them, thanks for your words.
Muzzy Phantom 2 Blade. $29.99
I used this head on an elk trip awhile ago (did not connect) I noticed the main blades made noise and you really had to mess with them to get the blades seated correctly. This head did not penetrate like I thought or expected. It seemed like a field point as it didnt punch a path for the shaft to travel through with out friction. It seemed like it had a lot of friction throughout its corse of travel like a field point and that stopped it from penetrating. Overall it held up well though and had a decent wobble after the wood test. I was blown away that it was out penetrated by expandables and well almost every broadhead.
Original Rage 2" $39.99
This head was doing well, it out-penetrated a few other heads in the first test. The blades were sharp but the design is not meant for torture as the blades flew apart barely cutting the entrance surface of the wood. It did not survive. I could only find one blade. I would never use this head.
I really like this post... Very good data, and thank you for sharing. Since the head I espouse looks very similar to the Redhead, hellrazor, and striker, but has no welds, I would love to see how the comparable VPA stacks up. Better yet - show one vented and one non-vented. I know the nonvented sure seems to blow through deer like butter, but I have no larger game to compare it to. That magnus does look like a pretty cool little head with a lot of versatility.
Thanks again - well done!
Jack
G-5 Havoc. $44.99
Killed one doe with this head. One of the basement perfromers it did ok but I will never use again. It struggled to penetrate and did not hold up well. The blades were exceptionally sharp though and they held up well but the design has some issues. The retention system that makes the blades stay deployed failed and the blades simply flew off on the wood with no penetration from the blades. The blade shock collar thing works well though to keep them from deploying but the metal wring inside is what shattered letting the blades come out.
Wow! Just asking! Is this a debate free thread?
My eye views the stinger as having a much lower profile than the ser razor, maybe I'm wrong, I dont know the dimensions.
The Phantom looks like a much shallower, less restrictive blade angle also. Can you please explain why it did so poorly?
We are not done yet jack, getting ready to post the real losers.
Thanks for the time and effort you put into this. Shooting ST's for years I had a good feeling they would shine in this test. For the record they are now $39 for three. Still a great head for the money.
Trad, I think it just had constant friction against it the whole time like a field point. I think its a fine line between pushing something through and having a lot of friction against its path of travel, with some of these other heads they might have had a bit of a time in the beginning but once the head went through their was no friction on the shaft the rest of the way and the path was clear. Like the FP, always the hardest to pull out. Did you read the review I put next to the phantom???? That Magnus is built like a brick S#%T house.
Chip for Slick Tricks? You are overpaying my friend. Google them and you can find them cheaper.
http://www.redsgear.com/slick-trick-broadhead-125gr-mag-3pk-st125m.html?gclid=CMOG_pufycUCFc4XHwodJ5kAYA
Hartcraft Deep Cut. $37.95
This head is what started it all. I tried this head and it made me mad how hard it was to get to spin and how it flew all crazy when I shot it. This head let me down a lot its floating blade design just doesn't work, it did not penetrate well or fly well, it was not good, and it didn't hold up at all.
FAA Toxic $44.99
This thing looks crazy and didn't do to bad on the barrel penetration but after that it was all down hill. It made slight noise during flight and the blades were slightly distorted after the 2nd penetration test. The Torture test made it clear that this head does not like wood or hard things of any kind. The tip broke off and the blades were bent but not super bad. The tip unscrews on these heads and makes it a weak point it seems as after every shot it had to be tightened. It was interesting but thats it.
NAP Spitfire $39.99
So, in last place I think the opening of the blades really slows this guy down, it did not penetrate for nothing. The wood destroyed it and I broke the threaded part off trying to get it out of the wood. The design is not ideal for hard things or rubber, not a fan even though I used to be.
Matt here are those ferals in a close up comparison. The striker is on the left. The Red Head is shorter and seems to have more meat before the threads and I bet thats where there is a lot of torque so that might be the weak point. Someone else might have another thought on it.
Forgot original rage pic.
Your welcome Jack, it was a lot of work, money, and time.
MD,
Thanks for the test! I appreciate it and will glean some good information from it. One note, the Ulmer Edge broadheads I use do not look like your photo. I have shot quite a few animals with them, and even pulled one out of the ground after a wolf jumped the string the other night, and all used ones have the "opening-wings" parallel to the cutting edges, not leading them once they are locked open? Is that the results of your severe torture test that bent the cutting blades back that much? Not critical as the Ulmer Edge broadhead is no longer made, but just curious about the photo. Kurt
Thanks for doing this. Regardless of what some folks may say. I appreciate the time and energy that went into this.
MD, is there any difference to the blades between the two heads (the cut-outs look the same)? I am imagining that either G5 makes those for Bass Pro or the same shop machines them, but it would be interesting to see if the blades are interchangeable. Thanks
Kurt, yes that is after the all the tests, even when new they will block some of the cutting of the blades. The blades kept pushing back.
Matt, yes the blades are different and the ferals are too, it is just funny how similar they look but how differently they perform. They are shorter and have a diff edge it appears. The design is consistent, either way the broadhead seems to perform and hold up way better and its cheaper.
Thanks, it is interesting just how similar the two designs appear, as even the shape of the cutout in the blades looks the same. I've seen many circumstances where the same (or basically the same) product was marketed as two different products and errantly assumed this was one of them.
Nice job. Thanks for the info!
" ......as even the shape of the cutout in the blades looks the same."
They don't look the same at all. The trailing edge of the cutout in the Striker is a semicircle. The trailing edge of the cutout in the Red Head is straight.
The material and heat treat of each could also account for the apparent difference in strength.
Thanks MD. No good deed goes unpunished ..............
An observation of the Shwacker that should be noted is that the destructive tests do not really test the blades ability to withstand heavy impact. The test was fair and representative of the feature of the blade deployment method. It just could be misleading to the casual observer.
Unlike the other expandables, the blades (by design) never actually hit the steel drum and were probably only slightly exposed to the plywood. (correct me if I'm wrong). In an animal they would also never be exposed to the hide or ribs. This leaves them sharp and with more energy to cut through tissue after entering the ribcage. The test DOES represent this advantage.
However, the test does not represent how they will hold up if the open blades hit the scapula or when exiting the rib cage or any other hard object.
Purdue, you are correct on some levels, the actual tips of the blades were bent a bit so it must have been trying to open on the way through. Neither rage made it through the wood period. On the plastic cans it did open and the big blades had to try to go through the back which they did not make it. That is my fear with the shwackers or having a tiny 1 inch entrance hole and no exit if they do not make it through, it would we a horrible blood trail if any. It happened to me with a doe It was a hard quartering away shot and it stuck in offside shoulder and no blood at all it was horrible. I switched back to fixed after that. Shwackers are not a bad head at all, I did notice a lot of bent ferals when I used them, I barely had the opportunity to use the replacement blades as the feral was bent a lot but every deer I shot fell in sight so it was great and they flew really nice. I started looking for the full package; strength, decent cut, good enttry and exit hole, & hopefully bone breakage. I think a shwacker if it started to open would stop dead in bone.
Great test, so thanks for sharing the info. Clearly a lot of time and money went into this!! Will have to do some hard thinking about what each category means. It's so hard to create test medium similar to deer skin, bone and flesh. I think the accuracy part of this study might be my favorite!! Were you surprised to find your Shuttle T-locks hitting a combined 6" from bullseye??
Wasn't there some guy years ago shooting actual deer scapula from road kills to test broadheads?
There was the infamous "Dead Cow" test BowSniper...
I find your results interesting and thank you for your time. A mechanical is never going to fare very well in a plywood/barrell test IMO, but that doesn't make them bad in the real world.
I've tested a TON of different broadheads on game and they all work if put in the right place. One of my favorite "real world" mechanicals is the Spitfire. They've resulted in some of my shortest blood trails ever, but don't perform so well in tests shot in to hard stuff and performed dismally in your test. I still like their accuracy, the wide cut and the simplicity of the design and will continue to use them.
Overall, some very cool data. Thanks for taking the time. Would've loved to see how a VPA performed in this test.
Thanks for the test. Very interesting data you compiled under controlled conditions. I think it was a fair test. I was a bit disappointed that the Muzzy Phantom didn't perform well. I've been shooting these heads for years but I use them as a 4 blade. I shoot either a 54# or 60# recurve and my bow and arrows are tuned very well. I've yet to have a Phantom fail and have always got great penetration. I will continue to use them. I do sharpen them because out of the package, they do not meet my sharpness standards.
Thanks for all the time and effort you put into this. Very interesting to be sure. I hadn't considered those Magnus heads before but I think I might give them a try. Thanks again!
Sniper, yes I was surprised, but some of the broadheads that hit a bit further away were hitting the same exact spot, so with a bit of BH tuning they would have been amazing. As far as using a cow or something I dont think it would be that good. If one head hit a half rib or two ribs or whatever it would have to be perfect for it to show good results. Stink and Checque, thanks.
Thanks for doing this testing and sharing the results MD. I shot Magnus Buzzcuts for years and recently got some of the Black Hornet SER to try out. My opinion is they fly like my FP's and much quieter in the air than the Buzzcuts. Shot a hog in February and headed back to Oklahoma in a few weeks for another hog hunt to try them again. I think Magnus has a winner of a head again with the Black Hornet.
Thanks for the test MD. I enjoyed reading through your tutorial.
Thanks for sharing looks like it would have been a fun project to do with the kids! I wish there was a VPA in the mix I think it would have been right up there at the top of the list.
It would have been really interesting to see how some of the old school designs held up. The big ole snuffers, woodsmen, stingers and the venerable zwickey. All have been around a long time have taken millions of head of game and were built like tanks.
Thanks for posting, if you do a round two I would like to donate a couple heads.
Enjoy your Memorial Day everyone, remember all those that fought for our freedoms.
Chris, I will take you up on that and anyone else that has that offer. I am always willing to try new heads. Anyone else. I will PM my address.
MD, Thanks for investing your own hard earned cash, time and effort to get these results.
I have two heads ill mail you to try:
no Limit Archery gravedigger 100 gr COC..hybrid..I have tested three of these for accuracy...they shoot like darts out to 90 yards. I will send you a new one to beat up
No Limit Archery night fury 100 gr mech
Thank you,
Mark
This is the sort of post that I really enjoy about bowsite... Bowsite got a little weird for a while (we all know why) but its back on track!
Mark, PM Sent, I appreciate it bud.
They are on their way tomorrow......torture them buggers!
Mark
Assuming the water barrel test you started at the top and worked down..... =D
Thanks for taking the time and effort with this. Some very interesting information.
Have a buddy that did this for a living.... the devil for the penetration testing is in the test medium.... a son of a gun. And HUGE samples needed in the real stuff is what works best. Not in the toolbox for 99.99% of us.
I really like the idea of the flight test, actually a bow slightly out of tune would show those who "flew like a field point". Most quality heads will fly well from a well tuned bow. But obviously some do fly better (technically "more forgiving"?) than others.
Toughness test is interesting as well. What happens when you hit something hard. And how far does it go after the hit.
Not a great indication of bone splitting as plywood is supported from all sides and angles and doesn't "split" or break in the sense bone does. But not meant to be so much as a test of physical toughness of the heads. Easy to see why mech guys tend to "hit em a bit father back than I wanted to.... but we'll give em some time..."
Real world I've been having much better results on bone with COC two blades where 3 blade COC I had been using tended to stick in the bone rather than split it.
Good job. Thanks much.
TD, you are correct in the sequence. I am probably going to use the horse stall mats with 3/4 inch ply wood in the middle that is soaked for a few days so it is more like bone as it will be a little less rigid. I want to suspend it in a frame with tight bungees or straps so it will move a little bit like a deer or elk would when you hit it. Even if the whole body doesnt move the flesh and bone move. Its fun, and gives me some confidence in what I am shooting as to how it will perform. What do you think about using a crossbow to do the tests? My GF has a crossbow that shoots around 300 FPS a bit slower than my bow. Shouldnt have to worry about tune or anything since I could sandbag it down for accuracy.
MD - I'd send you a VPA Terminator and a DRT for testing. PM your addy.
I only use two broad heads. My favorite finished dismally.
But at least my second choice performed very well.
Thanks for an interesting study. Sure beats the heck out of all those "..well my buddy shot one of those lousy things into the biggest buck ever seen in the state and he lost it...".
Enjoyed reading and the info. Appreciate your efforts. I've got a couple of broad heads I could donate too. 125gr though? Let me know.
This thread was a very interesting read. Thanks for doing these tests and sharing your results. I will definitely be buying and trying the Magnus Black Hornet broadheads.
Nice work buddy. Takes a lot of time and effort to something like this thank you very much.
Thanks for taking the time.
MD, Did you receive (and beat on) the heads I sent you?
Mark
What no Zwickey tested? Guess MD was afraid after it turned the plywd into sawdust it would still be orbiting the earth? Oh well, "another" broadhead test in the books while leaving out the most durable and one of the best penetrating broadhead known to man.
Appreciate MD's time and energy performing the test and probably covers 75% of what most of you shoot so in that regard the test has benefit to most I guess.
Crestedbutte, send me a Zwickey 100 Grain and I will test it compared to the top ones I have. I have had a few people send me heads this week and am waiting for a few others and I will do round 2. If you have one to spare I am not afraid to test it, budget is empty. Anyone else, PM ME.
Crestedbutte, send me a Zwickey 100 Grain and I will test it compared to the top ones I have. I have had a few people send me heads this week and am waiting for a few others and I will do round 2. If you have one to spare I am not afraid to test it, budget is empty.
Lance Nogosek PO Box 2026 La Plata, MD 20646
Before I send it....do you know how to sharpen it properly? It doesn't come out of the package sharp. Sending a Zwickey to you in the mail (already sharpened) could be a federal offense? Just sayin!
Great piece of work to date MD; sincere thanks for getting it done
I'm pleased to know I'm shooting the number four BH ;-)
+1 on the VPA test
Crested, If you sharpen it to your hearts desire it will not be a problem. The ones I just got were really sharp so if you can beat them with your sharpening skills you would be awesome.
Thanks for taking the time and posting this thread. I always test my equipment when my budget allows. Good to see the stats on a bunch of different heads. Thanks, Dennis
NP Dennis, Barty, and everyone else. BH Test # 2 will be coming soon after I get enough heads together.
MDCrazy - if you are going to use wood with the horse mats, why not cheap white pine boards? Might have the ability to split more like bone. Plywood is a man made beast cross-grained and glued, with no natural equivalent.
Just a suggestion. Ever forward buddy!!
Very cool. Always appreciate the effort on stuff like this. Thanks!
MD....Zwickey Eskimo with screw in insert for aluminum arrows weighs approx. 160 grains. Still interested? If so, how many do you need for testing? If that is too heavy to be included in this test do you plan to do a heavyweight broadhead comparison some day?
Bowsniper I used 1/8 inch shower board. That is what I was aiming for. Plywood was for torture.
Scott, Hed from Sioux Falls, I got your heads, they look awesome. Can you verify which exactly they are please. Thanks so much. A few more are coming. Crested I probably wont do anything over 125 grn.
I am not capable of sharpening a BH myself so I will stick with the VIPERTRICKS. Nasty out of the package
Thanks for doing this MD. Looking forward to seeing what the VPA heads do as I'm strongly considering switching all of our family's set-ups to VPA this fall.
I am very interested in seeing how the VPA compares to the Redhead Blackout. With solid steel and no welds, I surmise it will outperform. I can say this much about a 3-pack of 100gr solids... First head killed 6 consecutive deer and some large bodied bucks, then took out the heart of a doe but lodged deep into the opposite shoulder/knuckle area and the torque completely ripped the insert out of the arrow and ruined the shaft... It still looked brand new upon inspection, but it did not spin perfectly true, just a very slight wobble so I retired it. That was the only shot that did not completely pass through and bury deep in the dirt. Next BH, also passed through 4 more deer including some Whitetail bucks over 150lbs dressed, until passing through a 160lb buck and lodging deep into a white oak, where it remains today. BH #3 then proceeded to kill 2 more bucks over 150lbs, and is still like new... I am moving up to the 125s this year on a heavier shaft, just in case I get a moose hunt.
Kotaman, did you send a vpa sharpened from package or touch it up yourself? Just curious......
I think I sent one out of the package that had been shot into a target a few times. It was still VERY sharp.
10-4. Imo the sharpness of a vpa out of the package is ok and can be sharpened much better, which will increase performance greatly. One of the things I enjoy about the head is tinkering with it and sharpening it.
Great, when did you send them Kota, you just sent a VPA or anything else? Thanks.
I sent a VPA and a DRT early last week. You should easily have them by now. Sent them Priority Mail.
I'm sending 125 Magnus snuffers 3 blade big old school recurve arrowhead Also dead ring 100 expandable hybrid this Monday.
Should be interesting. Have fun MD! Thanks
Where do you buy the Red Head Blackouts? Are they the same as the Blackout Toxik at Bass Pro?
Kota, I got them, that VPA just looked diff with the cutout. Thanks Chris, I will eventually do a 125 grn test. I have a few new expandables so that will be cool with a dead ringer.
3 Arrows, yes it is a redhead blackout toxic.
http://www.basspro.com/BlackOut-Toxik-FixedBlade-Broadheads-or-Replacement-Blades/product/79674/
I see the redhead blackouts are 1 1/16" diameter vs VPA which is 1 1/8". I am anxious to see the result. Mdcrazyman- I have one good non-vented 100gr VPA left as I am moving up to 125gr this season. If I send it to you can you put it through your test?
I want to see the 100 grain VPA 3 blades tested. Would like to see both vented and nonvented tested. Please let us know if you have them there to test. if not, I'll send for testing.
Jack, if your looking to try 125g VPA, check out the Bowsite classified. Some listed there.
Very few, if any broadheads will beat the Exodus for sharpness, flight and durability. I shot one completely through a dryer and it only had some small nicks. Killed some big animals with them.
Thanks Jethro - I am taking those VPAs off the classified...
Good stuff MD...thanks for your time and expense to put this together.
Maybe I missed it but was there a reason you didn't include Wac'Ems in the test?
Jack, I do nont have a NON vented, Kota sent me a vented. I would appreciate it. Will send PM with Address. Thanks. Any 125's would be cool too. Doing a 125 as well soon. JTV. IF you donate an exodus I would be glad to try one. I really wanted to use them but I already had a lot of money invested and they weren't as popular as the ones I tested. Let me know.
I'm excited to see the new tests. Interesting that some think Zwickey Eskimos are built like a tank. Edge rolled bad for me every time I tried them.
Just want to thank the responses from guys out there. I have had quite a few people send me heads and one company to test. I am waiting for about 6 more heads to come in from you guys which is awesome. I am going to do a 125 grain test as well with what I have. With the big following of VPA I am gong to but a montec cold steal back into it for a great comparison and use the top three from my last test.
DWARCHER, no wac'ems because I could not afford it. Again if you would like to donate one I would be more than happy to through it in the fire with the rest.
Thanks again everyone. I appreciate the support and donations.
Lance
Check out these guys!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9zJ_VZ9N8c
redriverbroadheads.com
I noticed something odd about that video. The Crosscut hit to the left of the R1 when they were shot, but appears to be to right of the R1 when they do the measuring.
Anyone else see it that way? It may be an optical illusion.
A quick search reveals that a Jim Wallace (registered here as Esau) is manager for Red River Broadheads. I have no issue with promotion, but might as well own up to it. Becoming a Bowsite Sponsor would be a good place to start.
6 heads hitting same shoulder in 6 different spots is a completely bogus test. There is not uniform bone density and thickness across that area. The pig death was not all that impressive either to be honest. Posting the same 2 videos on every recent BH is clever I suppose, but to me those videos did anything but promote the intended BH's. All that being said - good luck Mr. Wallace with your products, in a very competitive market. Starting any small company in America is never easy and tough to survive. I would strongly recommend not using those videos though to promote the heads and re-think your strategy
Thanks for the input and we will be doing more of the same evaluation.
We are just starting and know nothing about marketing so excuse the clumsiness.
I will be becoming a Bow site sponsor very soon.
Thanks for your efforts.
What happened to the Viper trick test though?
Would love to see the exodus in this test, I've seen them in a few tests over on AT and they kick arse, I've used them myself for elk and moose over the last 3 seasons, killed 2 moose and three elk, all broadheads where undamaged even after striking heavy bone! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnXXxQfdTxo
I will include the Exodus in our next evaluation. Thanks!
MDcrazeyman: Good work. I actually like your test. It's repeatable and you did your homework. Funny how sometimes an off brand broadhead can surprise you.
It does not surprise me that the Magnus Serazor did so well. It's one very strong well thought out broadhead. When you test try shooting that broadhead at a quartering away shot and measure the hole. It's pretty impressive.
The 125 VPA and the Magnus 125 Serazor are going to be in a league all their own in the next test.
Gearing up we will see. Planning on starting the first weak of july. Might have a few more people sending. ITs a lot of work so I want to post everything at once. It will be in a new thread when I start. Thanks to all that have donated so far. We will be at about 15 with the new test as it stands. No QAD yet.
