Contributors to this thread:
Anyone using these arrows? If so, can I get some feedback?
I bought a dozen (.400 spine) when they came out 10-11 months ago roughly, whenever they were released. They shot a bit stiff (a good thing) for me. They are an extremely accurate and consistent grouping arrow. I really like them, however did end up staying with the .330 Injexion. Two incredible arrows that in the end I think I could have shot either one and been very happy.
Hope this helps,
Mark
I just switched to the Injexion FMJ Deep Six arrows. So far so good. I'm a longtime ACC guy and am very happy with the switch thus far.
I killed 3 deer with the deep six FMJ's this year. I also ordered a few dozen carbon injexions to try out. With my set-up the deep six FMJ's weigh 455 grains while the carbon injexions weigh 432. I kind of like arrows a little on the heavier side but the Carbon Injexions seem just as tough and are less expensive. Both great arrows IMO.
Hey Mark what B/H are you using with these arrows? I really don't want to go to the deep six arrows, but they discontinued the ACC prohunters.
Mark - What draw weight are you shooting? I'm trying to get an arrow picked out for my moose hunt. I ordered both the 400 and 330 spine deep six FMJ's and both 100 and 125 gr field points. So far, I like the way the 330's shoot with 100 grain heads. I'm pulling 62# @29" and shooting a 462 grain arrow. I have not run one through a chrono yet, but my guess is it will be around 260-265 fps from my elite energy 32.
Tom- I am still looking at what broadhead to order also. Not a lot to choose from that I like. I was thinking about trying the solid legend 100's, but they are $80/3. Yikes.
Wood, Slick Trick 100 gr Mag would be an excellent choice and is made in the deep six configuration.
I have been shooting them for about 6 months now. I placed the RPS Deep 6 insert in the end which is a cool option they offer. VERY VERY tough insert. Much better than the HIT IMO. The RPS insert is 25 grains I believe? Have to shoot D6 heads with it though.
I am shooting D6 Slick tricks and fly like darts. Weighs about 470 grains finished 27" arrow with vanetec 2" vanes, wraps and 100 grain head.
I have been researching this as well. I like the ACC's but....
A couple things to consider at least with the FMJ's. I am currently getting ready for a moose hunt and am shooting 300's but if you can get by with the 340's they are pretty close to the deep six diameter and you don't have the limitations of deep six broadheads. I am travelling now but if my software is correct: FMJ 300's outside diameter is .277 FMJ 340's outside diameter is .269 FMJ deep six 330's outside diameter is .267 I will update with the exact diameters this weekend when I get home.
I shot them last year, and got another dozen this year. Great arrow!!!
Mad Trapper and LWood, -slick trick standard 110 gr and the trophy taker ulmer edge 100gr (original ferrule size). The UE for windier conditions (as long as I can get steady out of the wind) or longer shots. -68 lb@28" draw (I tell my wife it is a 32"!) Go with the .330 spine Lenny
I have never quite gotten comfortable with the D6 sized ferrules, so I have stayed with the original size. Probably all in my own mind. However, VPA makes that 12 gr aluminum footer that if I shot D6, I would use this footer for sure.
My goal in testing was to develop a flat shooting sheep arrow. Sheep are easy to kill but you have to hit them first:) and you may end up with a long shot and wind will be a factor to a degree.
Options for shooting the micro diameter (Injexion, FMJ D6, VAP) sized arrows with standard sized ferrules:
1: VPA (I have no affiliation with VPA by the way other than a customer) makes a 50 GR footed insert/outsert out of like 7075 T6 Aluminum. I have shot and tested these and they are the strongest that I have seen. I also like the way the way they increase the FOC to about 14.0% which IMHO helps with groupings and flying straight in a crosswind. These are quite easy to install and get to spin perfectly. This is key.
2: Firenock Outsert is again a 7075 T6 Aluminum that weighs 32 GR. Very strong and durable as well. My FOC with these ends up at about 11.9% These shoot and group extremely well and end up being a bit more of a flat shooting arrow. These are a bit more tricky to get them to spin perfectly on the arrow shaft.
3: VAP Aluminum insert/outsert (Gen 2)...not sure of which aluminum these are made of, but they bend the easiest of the bunch. Not that this is necessarily a bad thing as it protects the shaft and I never had one break per se. 50 Gr in weight. Very easy to get to spin perfectly.
What I decided to do was stick with the same arrow that I used in 2014 for dall sheep/mountain caribou...Easton Injexion (Carbon) .330 spine with the Firenock Outsert ...total arrow weight after I fletch and wrap is 421 Gr. For me, this ended up being the most consistent long range flat shooting arrow. If I miss it tends to be up and down, not side to side so the flatter shooting (in this application-another sheep hunt) arrow makes the most sense in my mind:) I want to be able to shoot my hunting arrows in practice out to 100 yards.
Mark
Been shooting FMJDeep Six 400 since they came out. I love them. Shot a buck and doe with them last season and had complete pass through on both. I use the Slick Trick D6 Mags and just got some Ramcat 100 D6 broadheads. These are the most accurate broadheads I've ever shot and with the FMJs the penetration is outrageous! Can't wait for hunting season to start. Also, these are probably the most accurate arrows I've ever shot.
I am gonna try out some of the Carbon injections. Was looking at the FMJ injections. But Carbon are cheaper and I think they will work just as well. I'm always scared of the bending possiblilty with the FMJ. Even thou that might be a non issue.
Only think that stinks is the limited broadhead choices.
I agree with Mark Watkins on his choice of arrow components for skinny arrows. Mine is nearly identical with the 330 Injextions, a wrap, Blazers and a Firenock outsert. I use my old Ulmer Edges, Rocky Mt Ironhead 125s or Rocky Mt Titanium 100s. I tried a few D6 field points and D6 Ulmer Edge broadheads with the Easton D6 adaptors, but prefer the outserts and larger Diameter broadheads. My bows are set for a 29" draw and 62#s.
Check your Carbon Injextions carefully for straightness as some of mine were fairly crooked when run over an arrow straightener w/dial indicator and rollers on 12" centers. I had to send 8 of 36 back to Easton for replacement for being out of spec on +-0.003" as I measured them. Must have been a bad run of shafts? Also, the Easton wraps are poor quality and need to be stripped in my opinion. Easily done, and the glue cleans up with soap and hot water.
Kurt- have you had any issues with the outserts?
I've never been a fan of outserts because of the bending that can occur.
The one thing I don't like about the injections is the limited broadhead selection thou. I would like to shoot the broadheads I currently use.
Ermine, no outsert bending, but as stated above, they are a bit tricky to install. I use hot melt with a field tip in them and try to position them for a good concentric spin before they cool. No issue getting the Rocky Mt or Ulmer Edge broadheads to spin straight if you try a few different heads. They do add a bit of weight up front which is good, as well as protecting the end of the arrow. Kurt
I'm gonna get some injections to try. I might try the firenock outserts. As long as they are tough and don't bend they sound pretty good.
Justin, The .330 injexion uses the 6.22 Firenock outsert.
The BEST way I have found to install the outserts is to dry fit them first, making sure the fit snug on the shaft. then spin all of them on my arrow spinner to ensure proper alignment, setting each one aside when it spins perfectly. Then glue on each outsert, once again spin testing each one to make sure it spins perfect. Then set the arrow outsert up to dry. I install the outserts prior to fletching as it is easier to do an accurate spin testing without the resistance of the fletching.
As Kurt said, he prefers hot melt. I use Loctite 380 and have had good success with it. The only negative is you only have about 6 seconds when gluing to make sure the outsert is spin tested and aligned perfectly:)
Mark
One thing I forgot......squaring up both ends of the arrow is is a must for the best spin testing and maximizing accuracy.
Mark
I must be missing something. The alleged advantage of the Deep Six Injections, as I understand it, is their small diameter which leads to better penetration and arguably less wind drift. Now guys are having to use outserts to get desired results. Outserts have to hurt penetration and can't help with wind drift. One popular B/H manufacturer told me that they are having issues with the shanks breaking during impact and that they have no plans of offering a deep six version because of that. I am no arrow guru, so what am I missing? Does anybody know where I can get any ACC Prohunter 340 shafts? Maybe is time to look at Gold Tip.
You don't have to use outsets. Lots of guys use the deep 6 hit insert with great success from what I have heard,
I currently use axis and GT kinetic arrows. From what I have heard the injections will shoot and preform better than the axis. Atleast they have for a lot of guys!
I am playing with the same arrows myself and my arrow weight and setup is almost Identical LWood. I am thinking if I go with injections I will use the Solids, but I currently only have Muzzy trocar and DRT broadheads. I would like to look at the Wasp Drone and the new Trophy taker ATAC.
I may just go to Axis arrows because the broadhead selection is so much better.
John
I'm going to give the QAD Exodus a try this fall in the Deep Six version.
Great thread guys. I have never thought about doing outserts, but can see where it would be beneficial, like in Mark's case, where he is trying to combine non-deep six broadheads that he likes with small diameter shafts. My needs are different since I am going moose hunting, not on a Stone's hunt.
I have shot CE maxima reds for the last few seasons and have loved them. I am switching to the deep six FMJ's to get my arrow weight over 450 grains (moose are big) and have a smaller arrow for the wind on "the Rock" (I've been there before, it can be windy).
I ordered some Solid broadheads to try yesterday. I hope I am not disappointed. An Easton deep six FMJ with a solid broadhead makes for quite the investment @ $42.50.
Very tough and accurate head Kota. Shot it quite a bit with the D6 version although never hunted with it and stayed with my tricks. Also shot the Strickland Helix in D6 quite a bit as well.
I am going Musk Ox, Rosy, and Moose hunting so I also wanted to up my arrow weight a little bit.
I didn't realize slick trick made a deep six, do they have the Viper trick in D6?
John
Mad Trapper, What you "might be missing" is long range accuracy and its ability to buck the wind. If I had to name the four most accurate hunting arrows at long distance (and the ability to do so in some degree of wind), they would be the ACC pro (as you note, not in production any more), the Carbon Injexion, the D6 FMJ and the Victory VAP. This is not in any particular order.
This is not through a hooter shooter, but rather through a 52 year old body that is dog eared and tattered, short but slow, shooting out to 120 yards:) so, I recognize that there is zero scientific data behind this...
I wanted to use the standard sized ferrules (strength and I have a lot of them) so that is the ONLY reason to use an outsert or some sort of insert/outsert. I have not found it to impede penetration...ie...6 out of 7 big game sized critters last year were a full pass through.
If a person is comfortable (and I think more and more people are comfortable with them) with the D6 sized ferrule, then shoot them....they are very accurate.
I tested the D6 slick trick and the D6 QAD....both flew like darts out to 70 yards
Lots of great (and expensive) options!
Mark
Nope...just the magnum.
Mark
John- You have a heck of a fall planned on some big critters! Can't wait to follow along!
Lenny,
Yeah somehow it just snowballed on me!
I just got back from shooting broadheads on both Axis and Injections. I was able to tune the axis really quickly to match field points with a Magnus stinger and a Magnus Black hornet out to 60 but the injections I couldn't get two broadheads (Muzzy Trocar) to group at 50+. I would get one to shoot high and one to shoot low even when I switched arrows.
I am not sure if this is a spine issue or what. I was shooting 340 with 125G heads and 330 injections with 100g.
John
John-
Good luck with the tuning. I wish my work had an archery range!
Lenny
JM, Is the arrow diameter difference between Axis and Injextions changing your apparent nock height above 90 degrees that is causing your vertical tuning issues? Or are you retuning your rest height? I had to do this to get the Injextions flying right. Kurt
Lenny, The range is about 1/2 mile away so I did over lunch :)
Kurt, I paper tuned the injections last night and both injections and Axis shot bullet holes. But I started with the injections and was changing the nock height putting the broadheads with the field points. I started at twenty but ran into the problem at 50 where one arrow was high and one was low, moving the nocking point wouldn't bring them together. I switched arrows and had the same issue again. It was just High and Low no left/right. I then switched to Axis and I had it out to 60yards with a little adjustment. I am not sure if its bow, arrow, or broadhead. I will have to play with it some more.
John
I would venture to guess the tune will be specific to the arrow.
Also you used different Broadheads. It could be the broadhead and not the arrow. I've heard of few people complaining about the muzzy trocars not shooting that well.
Ermine, I am thinking on similar lines but I tend not to blame broadheads because most usually can be tuned. Thinking about it I am wondering about the nocks, the loop was originally tied for standard sized nock and the injection has smaller nocks.
John
"Thinking about it I am wondering about the nocks, the loop was originally tied for standard sized nock and the injection has smaller nocks."
I actually stopped shooting them secondary to nock pinch and being too lazy to retie by center serving. Ha ha. They are definitely a bit smaller.
I have more confidence in the accuracy of this arrow than any arrow i have ever shot. I had planned on a heavier arrow for my moose and bison hunt but could not get the arrows to fly like i wanted out past 50 yards.. I can shoot a small Blazer 4 fletched with these arrows and my fixxed broadheads hit the same as my field points..
JT,
Field points shoot fine and I really like the arrows but something isn't right yet, just need to find it. By the way what broadhead do you shoot?
John
I have been shooting the solid 100s.. they fly great.. The Exodus also fly really good.. I am actually planning on trying some of Dan evans atac heads if they come out in time for my hunt.. But if not the solid 100s will get the nod
JM, How you doing on your tuning quest? (Wish I could offer words of advice here for you but it is outside of my very narrow window of skills)....
Mark
After playing with the D6 options and although I will not argue that they are a little better in the wind it just felt like I was having to re invent every combination.
Believe it or not I ended up just shooting the Axis Carbon shaft with Brass HIT inserts.
Yes, the D6 has a slight edge but for me, the simplicity of having all of the components working together sold me on the Axis. Not to mention they are about half the price, and very common.
Good Luck this season whatever you shoot !
Mark,
I haven't been able to get out and shoot broadeads again. The bow I was tuning is a carbon matrix and it is shooting the axis arrows lights out to 80 yards and I am not sure I want to change it.
I also have a new No Cam that is in need of tuning so I think I will paper tune the injections and then try to broadhead tune from there.
John
John, There's an old tried and true saying......"don't mess with success!"
Glad to hear it!
Mark
Here's one set up I'm liking in one of my 62# Athens Convixtion. 330 Injexion, 2 Deep Six Inserts, Our VPA 6 Series 100gr 2 blade, and our CTR-Punch footer/adapter. Black anodize is standard on the footers adapter. I had a few done in burnt orange and in deep red.
I just finnished paper tuned the injections on the HTR, its now shooting bullet holes. I have the Ripcord Ace rest on that bow and man is the micro adjust nice, that's going to make broadhead tuning so much easier. I also shot my Axis arrows and they shoot bullet holes too, it just goes to show that paper tuning is just the first step in the tuning process.
I order some of the Firenock Outserts and received them today, they seam like a good product. I kind of like the idea of being able to use standard broadheads. I wonder what is tougher the Hit insert/D6 Broadhead combo or the Outsert/Std Broadhead combo.
Rayzor I looked at your website and I don't see the CTR-Punch footer/adaptor, am I missing it?
John
Finally got mine all set up and they shoot super out of my bow. I am liking them a lot.
478 gr total arrow weight. 13.39 FOC GOing to chrono tomorrow so I could find out my kinetic energy and momentum. They sure are hitting the targets hard and going in deep.
I'm gonna try some Carbon injections. Gonna use the VPA outsert and footer.
I've had no issues at all with the deep six inserts on the deep six FMJ's or carbon injexions. I've shot 6 deer this year, 3 with the deep six FMJ's and 3 with the carbon injexions; all 6 were pass throughs. All six were shot with the 100 grain deep six Slick Trick mags.
Very impressed with this set-up so far. As others have already stated, long range accuracy has been excellent.
Anyone using a 125 gr head on these? I'm having trouble finding a 125 gr broadhead for the FMJ D6.
"I wonder what is tougher the Hit insert/D6 Broadhead combo or the Outsert/Std Broadhead combo?"
JM, you pose a great question.
I have never had a Firenock outsert or the VPA insert/outsert fail. Fail being defined as breaking. Never have had the VPA I/O bend. Have had a few Firenock outserts bend (to a slight wobble). (I have not shot these into concrete blocks, granite rocks or US military tanks.)
In looking at the HIT insert/D6 broadhead combo with the VPA footer, my guess is that the strength is going to be very good although I don't have any experience shooting them.
Loopmtz, not many at all in a D6, but I believe there are a few. you can always use a 100 gr D6 and put two 20 Gr D6 HIT inserts to boost weight.
Mark
I got the VPA outsert and footer thanks to Marks suggestion. I've been shooting them and they are shooting good. The outsert and footer are a very nice design. Super tough
Where do you get the VPA outsert and Footers? I can't find them.
John
PM Rayzor...this is Ray from VPA. Don't know why he doesn't have them listed on the VPA website.
You out there Ray?
Good to hear Ermine.....they are accurate and tough!
Mark
Yea I PMed Ray and got them thru him.
They seem very tough and clean looking!
I will PM Ray then an get some. thanks!
