Typical and Nontypical...?
To answer your question there are many places where a new record could come from but my guess is where I'm not:)
Charlie is spot on about the 4.5 year old and abnormal points after that age.
WI would be my first guess.
Nebraska is high on the list.
Iowa produces great deer but has not been a producer of the best typicals. No idea why. Still could be a decent chance.
Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky, Illinois and even Missouri warrant strong consideration.
Kansas, which I am most familiar with is not really much of a contender today. Most of the state has sparse cover and vulnerable deer. We no longer manage for anything except the NR dollar.
But like others have said, it could come from about anywhere.
I wouldn't rule out Eastern CO either
Based on that I will choose Iowa on a best typical genetics hunch (12 point frames) :)
Kansas simply doesn't put enough fawns on the ground to warrant consideration.
NT WR is far harder to pinpoint that typical. It could come from any area that can grow bone quantity. No huge typical frame or good genetics required. (Though it would help.) I would say that any state that has a few 250+ NT bucks could do it. Or, even a state that does not have one still has a chance.
The situation today is that with the common use of trail cameras, excessively long seasons, unlimited buck harvest and generally high pressure, bucks with lots of bone are targeted and killed before they get a chance to reach the age that produces record animals. Some bucks do reach the age but they are seldom the prime specimens. Too many people looking year round. Shed hunting, shining etc. Just going to be tough to best the present records. Record animals are by definition rare. They are also a product of excess production and under utilization. Where in the whitetail world today do we find great genetics, great forage and significant under harvest over a broad area? The answer is very close to nowhere. So, the answer to where will the next WR come from is about the same. Likely nowhere.
Charlie is right. Both our whitetails and mule deer tend to develop too many "treasure' points for a high net score.
If it happens, will probably be on some ultra-private land that's managed for trophy hunting.
Interesting how many very nice bucks on the new Realtree Monster Bucks videos. More from Kansas than anywhere, again.
Some nice gross scores, but not net because of deductions.
Gotta love that pic of Mel Johnson and his buck. Plaid shirt, buzz cut, recurve and a Bear quiver full of woodies. What a monster deer.
Iowa, Illinois, Kansas, Saskatchewan, and Wisconsin could all have the propensity to put out a world record due to strong numbers in the record books.
Maybe, WV like Zbone stated but I think that DNA is in the develoment stage even though 190ish buck was killed there this year. Those hillbillies may not let a world record survive if they knew about it. Oh, by the way am originally from WV.
I think the world record may be home grown on some QDM land.
A world record will eventually show up if the right set of circumstances all line up.
Minnesota management practices do not support growing huge bucks but it has produced several that push the limit.
My guess would be a Midwest state that was hit hard with EHD and is on the rebound. Lower deer densities mean more food which is critical to overall development. Areas that traditionally had great DNA which had fallen below the radar due to EHD with someone practicing QDM would facilitate the occurrence.
R., were you on the panel that scored the Hanson buck?
Here's a Kansas collector with a world record breaker that was grown on a game farm. They are fed well, allowed to mature and monitored with cameras and microchips. I have a shed antler most probably from the Kansas King that scores 98 inches clean. It was most likely from the buck when he was only 3.5 years old. It should be featured in an upcoming North American Whitetail issue this fall.
My point is that the typical record may be vulnerable to a young deer with super genetics that has not yet developed non-typical points to lower the net score.
While the bow only zone in WV produces some monster deer every year, those deer get age on them. So, typical probably isn't in it for this area. Neither is nontypical due to the lack of agriculture to fuel the abnormal growth that comes with age. I simply don't see it. The glory days are gone for this area. Believe me, you may just now be hearing about it but, take it from a guy that has aged with the changes, there are far fewer big deer in this area right now than a decade ago. However, timber harvest has been aggressive, as has mountain top mining, so nutrition won't be the limiting factor it has been in the past. So, time will tell.
I really do look for the New Typical Bow Record to come from Ohio or Kentucky. They have decreased the herd, improving the conditions for the deer. If not from there, Eastern VA. Best kept secret in Whitetail hunting. Soybeans, peanuts, tobacco, wheat, corn, etc.. Everything needed to feed them and the cover to hide them. If dog hunting were to be outlawed, there is enough of what the deer need, after recently stopping a decade of endless buck harvest, to make it happen. The way deer management is becoming paramount, hound hunting is quickly dying anyway. So, time will tell the potential a less stressed, older buck herd has in this otherwise mild climate, to re-write the record books. It's a lot like the WV bow zone in the fact the deer are kinda a well kept secret. But, they kill some huge deer in Eastern VA every year and, have the resources to maximize their potential. It's a real-deal sleeper area for sure.
I look for the next Non typical World Record to come from Saskatchewan. Good range to get the age and the feed necessary to maximize it. God Bless
What I mean by that is, we can grow extremely nice bucks, absolute eye poppers, but we cannot seem to be able to just grow a world record, other than in high fenced and ultra-heavily controlled conditions.
I guess what I am saying is, any of these places mentioned, have the potential to grow a new world record, but that is all they have, the possible potential. Meaning that finding a new world record, will be like winning the lottery. Everything, absolutely everything must align perfectly, then it will happen. But if the situation isn't absolutely perfect, and I mean planet aligning perfect, it just won't happen. Easily every year, a possible world record contender, could be shot at the age of 2, or die from an automobile collision or from EHD. So what I am getting at, is that I would speculate that out of the hundreds of thousands of deer born each year, maybe only one or two will have the earnest potential of breaking records, but we will never know, until it happens.
Sorry if this sounds loofy to you guys, I am simply trying to say that all aspects must become absolutely perfect, and even then, a hunter must have an opportunity at that animal. And we all know that once a buck gets around 3.5, with each passing year, he will get more and more elusive. That is what is so great to me about hunting mature bucks, it is almost like Christmas each fall as we watch - if we get the opportunity - our area bucks grow.
Good luck to everyone, maybe you will get a chance at a new world record this year.
The Beatty Buck from Ohio is the highest COMPOUND non-typical taken to date. (no gun kills count in bow hunting) so The Jordan Buck and The Hanson Buck from Canada do not count either.
If I had taken a WR Whitetail, only about 10 people would of ever known....IF I had to guess on a New World Record though ....by 'bow' .... scoring above Del's or Mel's .... I'd say Alberta and Iowa / Kansas! We now have 100,000 times more people hunting with a bow now than back when and Mel's has never been beat and it will be 50 years standing this fall! ....I hope it is never beat while Mel is still here .....
Well, I'm asking and I'm using a 54' recurve, haha.
Thankfully we are not talking about Genetically altering pen reared whitetails.
However, the young guy sold it, the owner, did not have it scored in Wis and then the controversy started......
Finally scored as a non typical....... that's a shame, I was able to look at the buck, I just shook my head, ,,,,,,,,,,,
With all due respect to the B&C scorers, I will keep my opinion to myself, rules are rules.....
But I will say, I use to believe in the scorers, and in integrity, but I do not anymore.........
That King buck is the real deal,,,,,, its too bad....
Since the establishment of the P&Y records keeping and the WR whitetails both typical and nontypical being surpassed many times through the years, only the Beatty Buck was killed with a compound, all the rest were taken with traditional equipment...
David i have seen HH pass on bucks i wish i had in bow range im talking 170 plus all before the days of micro managed farms. The last buck HH killed that i know of is close to 180 with less then 15 inch inside Herm and Judy are two of the best whitetail hunters and great folks.
Alberta would be my #1 choice and I think that a serious bow hunter should spend the whole bow season there chasing his / her personal dream. (some fantastic Muley's there too) ... my one regret in life is that I never took the time for Alberta!
In fall of 1939 NY Allegeny county two giants were killed a 198 typ and 220s plus non typ I still think these hold as our record deer. Thats a long time ago, also shows genetics can be wiped out of any given area just cause one area has produced giants yrs ago ,disease,hunting pressure nd land loss can and will alter the final picture.
In 1950s i believe Illinois deer herd was near wiped out , Deer we brought in from Wis /Minn to restock .
Is there documentation on that somewhere?
Why I ask is I know in Ohio, the deer herd was thought to be exterminated by 1903 and non-existent until 1923 when limited stocking occurred, but read where only a couple dozen or so were brought in (can't remember) by either some hunt clubs and/or the division of wildlife, but was unable to find where these original restocked genetics came from... Anyhow, I don't believe today's Ohio genetics came from those few dozen deer, but more likely migrated in from neighboring states...
Ohio's first modern day deer-gun season opened in 1943 in only three counties where they killed 168 deer, and then didn't open statewide until 1956...
Ironically the Hole-in-the-Horn Buck was found dead along railroad tracks near Ravenna Ohio in 1940, three years before the first modern day deer season...
I know its list number 2 all time, but if ya ask me is more impressive than the WR nontypical Missouri Monarch. I've seen replicas side by side...
My friend's son in Alabama shot this game farm buck on a small property they had knocked on doors to hunt. It had escaped a local game farm over a year earlier over two miles away.....I believe he could enter the 170 class buck in the record book as the rules now stand, seeing it was fair chase at the time of kill. Someone at the game farm had left the gate open and one buck had escaped.......no one had seen him until the day he was killed by the youngster. This stuff may happen more and more with the proliferation of game farms.
When I say the record book will be diluted and muddied for multiple reasons relating to genetic altering, private sanctuaries, modern equipment etc.....it's mind boggling. I hope folks hunt for personal satisfaction and don't put too much stock in "chasing" the record books. The value of trophy antlers keeps pushing downward as they can be grown larger and larger as pedigrees are dialed in. In some skewed way, that may deter poaching. 180 inch gross whitetail bucks can now be grown at 1.5 years old consistently.....in the wild those same yearling bucks are fork-horns and basket racks.
As far as I know Amish were not involved, but I know for a fact of 6 huge bucks escaping from a high fence operation near my hometown and were shot unfenced, because my buddy killed one... Guess a tree fell on the fence during a storm and they got out... My bud didn't know his came from the high fence operation and was bummed out when he found out... DOW got involved and turned into a fiasco...
BTW - Curious, why the plastic wrap around the skull, does it help keep in the peroxide?
ROUGHCOUNTRY: QDMA has been very active in exposing the dangers of genetic alteration in commercially raised whitetails. Go to their website if you want more info.
When I dream about elk or deer, I'm dreaming about mature, large racked animals, but I'm absolutely fine with the fact that the odds are infinitely small that I would have a shot at a world record.
It would be incredible to kill an animal like that, but what then? Even if you're inclined to not publicize it, word's going to spread. People would be crawling all over you and any area you hunt. Some of the magic of "What if?" would be lost for future hunts. You're not going to break your own record in later hunts.
Like I said, it's not a problem that I'm worrying about.
But you guys can have the world record and all of the attention that goes with it. I'll keep dreaming of a mentally challenged or suicidal number ten or twelve that wants to present me with the perfect shot.
Records are meant to be broken and with all the managing going on, it's bound to happen soon. I'm actually surprised that it hasn't happened yet. Like others said, I see it probably being a younger deer... I've seen too many old timers (5+) get trash or damaged pedicles... if they live that long.
Killing a record is not even on my radar and I definitely would not like the recognition.
I shot my best deer last year, although not even close to a world record, and will try hard to shoot a nice one this year but in reality it will be hard to shoot a bigger deer as it would have to be a B&C caliber deer to best last years......not an easy task! Instead I will focus on enjoying the season and hope that I get a nice buck.....less pressure that way!
You guys bring up the future, technology, and genetic alterations. Surprised nobody brought up the black powder nontypical WR, Albia buck that was killed with a muzzleloader by a kid in early youth season after the adult relatives pattern this animal with 12 trailcams on exclusive hunting property... They knew where this animal was at 24 hours a day. This WR wasn't fairly hunted, it was executed and reason I have a problem with trailcams as cheating...
A guy on the QDMA forum shot a old buck with tags in both ears last year.....I guess there was a game farm that had some escapees a couple years prior. It was a nice buck, but he shot larger ones previoulsy that were free ranging deer......the lack of constant nutrition takes it toll on rack size for sure.
the albia buck a giant killed not far from my farm
the albia buck a giant killed not far from my farm
As for truly a world record, I hope the fortunate hunter does share it with the world because in my view, it's not about the hunter, its about the tremendous animal that grew the bone... I could care less about who killed it, but would like to see it shared with the public... That's like the WR nontypical elk killed in UT a few years ago... I don't remember the wealthy hunter's name that bid and won the governor's tag and killed it, nor the outfitter's gang that tried to monitor 24x7, but I do remember the bull's name - "Spider"...8^)
Herdbull - Best of luck on your quest for the 5X5...
I don't want to start turning this into another definition of DIY argument thread or attack anyone in any way. I'm just saying that level of help would diminish my satisfaction.
I wouldn't feel that the animal was "mine".
Yet working together with a good buddy or two on a hunt allows me to enjoy reliving both the hunt and the friendship while eating those elk with extreme satisfaction.
I recognize that those statements don't jibe well.
And I suspect that I'd feel a little disappointment if I found an old tag in the ear of a deer that I killed.
So, here's to hoping that one of you guys kills that world record somewhere other than where I hunt, that there are no tags in its ear, that the crazy attention is enjoyable for you and that jealous neighbors or nearby hunters don't resort to smearing your name.
My dad's neighbor shot a big buck in Ohio a few years ago (google Mark "buck" Owen) and he caught all kinds of hell for shooting it behind a fence. In reality, he just found a really good buck on a property he was able to get permission to hunt.....not really complicated, but man o'man did people "guarantee" it was a fenced deer.
I talked to him about it shortly after he shot it while looking it over in the driveway and you could tell he was a little upset at it all.....fortunately he knew what he was getting into! lol
Kansas has two poached bucks that probably would have eclipsed our best ever Boone and Crockett typicals.
Man, Thorton. Must be a great area. In several decades of hunting, and being paid to be outdoors, I've only seen one buck in Kansas I thought might even net 190 typical or better, and that was in the 1980s.
I've gone several years without seeing one I was sure would net Boone and Crockett typical or non-typical.
I live near the border and get to talk to a lot of Canadian hunters. When it comes to big whitey's, let me tell you, it's a whole other world up there.
If that is the case, somebody would actually own them legal likely whomever confiscated them or currently possesses them, like maybe the fish and game department or some jurisdiction, then entered as a pickup...
I know a big Ohio nontypical killed back in the 70s was like number 4 or 5 B&C once upon a time, and was later confiscated after the guy was convicted of killing it illegally and is still listed in B&C with owners being the division of wildlife....
I think #1 B&C Missouri Monarch is owned and listed by their fish and game department too...
Wildlife and Parks has them both, and they will not list them as the state record because they were taken illegally.
One is listed in Boone and Crockett, the other isn't.
Boone and Crockett has listed two poached bucks as the biggest in Kansas, but I'm sticking with the state to decide the state record.
If you're talking state records, no biggie...
I'd like to see one that tops 213-5/8" typical, as said I don't care how it died or who killed it, would just like to see the animal that grew the bone and believe it should be recognized...
Kentucky or Ohio for nontypical.
Being a Kansan.... :-)
There's also a 207 net typical mule deer that would beat the existing record by about 20 inches in the mid-80, when it was shot. (Still 5" above current gun and bow records.)
The guy Cabela's credits with having killed the buck didn't have a permit that year, or the one before or after. Wide-spread rumor that year of a huge buck poached in the same county attributed to the record.
But it's only rumor, no proof, no foul.
I also think most guys who see a 200" deer didn't really see a 200" deer. There just aren't that many of them. 180 looks enormous on the hoof...for that matter 160 looks enormous on the hoof. Especially if you are watching them run away.
The guys who commented about too much junk on older deer are right. I agree with R. Hale as well. The pressure is too hard on them. I Dont know anybody who is letting a booner go by. Even if its young. And who can blame them?
That said, I've seen some very big bucks over the years once or twice and then never again. They just seem to disappear. I'm almost certain I would've heard about it if they got shot. Makes it nice to dream about what's out there. :)
That's what makes him exceptional and unique, the best of all time...
Gross is for nontypicals...
More probable;
The "Midwest Zone" of, Illinois, Western Ky, Missouri, Iowa, (northern section) Wisconsin, and Minnesota.
Picking one state is tough however my guess is
#1 Iowa
#1 A Missouri
#1 Sleeper, Western Ky.
Shug, I'm guessing you hit your head ;-) There are no big bucks in NJ, maybe a few in the last 50 years but nothing recent. I mean, unless I see them in some kind of book, I will not believe there are anyway.
I would say the next Archery typical record has a good chance of coming from the Bow-only counties in W.Va., southern Ohio (wasn't there trail cam pics of some walking WR last year?) or maybe Kentucky. But some place like North Dakota could surprise, they put out some monsters. A mild winter and good spring and summer weather for growing could do it there.
