Fixed blade vs Mechanical - Myth Busters
Equipment
Maybe if enough of us chime in we can finally resolve this dead horse.
I nominate Pat to be the archery / bow hunting expert to work with myth busters to see if the mechanical or fixed blade are the most lethal.
It would be really cool to see the high speed videos....
What are your thoughts ??
location, location, location.
Same as has been covered on here at least 7.56 zillion times -
Wider cut and less planing are advantages of the mechanical...but being "mechanical," they take extra care and consideration.
No extra care, and the fact that fixed heads have been killin' stuff since the day of the woolly mammoth and saber-toothed cats speaks a lot for them.
Used 'em both, missed deer and other critters with both.
More failures on my part than my equipments.
"Maybe if enough of us chime in we can finally resolve this dead horse."
you're delusional if you believe that. you may as well be debating the existence of God.
I just would like to be able to SEE the difference. The guys on myth busters are super smart and creative - it would be cool to see how they test it - and get to see it in high speed
Plus it would be cool to see a bowsite feature on TV - besides on the outdoor channel....
You can set the test parameters to slant either direction. It would be very difficult to have a neutral test. I would use the broadhead you like and go forth and have fun.
Well, I killed stuff with fixed heads from the 1980's till 2007 and they worked absolutely fantastic. When I bought a new bow in 2008, I decided to test the mechanical world. After much research, I settled on the Rocket Steelhead as being a reliable and durable mechanical. Killed my last dozen or so animals with them and they have been amazing. Pass throughs on all but one deer that I hit the off shoulder on. And adequate and short blood trails on all of them. I've had more deer die within sight since using them. Great mechanical heads. Wish they still made the 125 grain model.
I have stockpiled over 50 of the original Rocket Steelheads in 125gr, with replacement blades for all of them. They should last me half a lifetime. There isn't a deer, bear, or moose walking around in VT I would hesitate to shoot with them. Cant say enough good things about them.
I used mechanical BH for a few years. A dozen perfect kills with Spitfires, 1 with a RAGE. Then a bent/broken head. The Rage looked like a crushed beer can. IMO mechanicals are to fragile. Now only fixed blade. I had all the "proof" I need with personal experience. With all the solid, sharp BH and tunable bows in today's world I see no reason for me to use a mechanical. Every BH will kill with a perfect shot. It is the marginal shoots I prepare for.
Not all mechs are created equal, just like fixed heads, only proper rage is the rage SS, it has a proper blade angle, I wouldn't even consider shooting the 2" rage, its a penetration killer!
It is very unfortunate, that Woody Sanford no longer posts on Bowsite.
He has performed more Broadhead testing than anyone I know of.
Yeah. I miss Woody's expertise, too.
Even if Myth Busters did a good job testing... Someone will ultimately cry foul about a particular mech or fixed BH that was left out of the test.....blah, blah, blah. They don't have enough show time to test them all.
Crestedbutte, no doubt that would happen. I have seen them test some things in unusual ways due to lack of real world experience.
Really I'd like to see a test where some ballistic gelatin is wrapped in leather or deer hide and shot. Simple realistic and consistent. If someone wants bone, put a 1/8" board across the whole thing.
All I know is that I have never read about a "failure" of a fixed blade. You put it in the right spot and it will do its job 100% of the time
Maybe Woody still lurks? I miss his input also. Woody, If you are there, maybe you and Pat could try this for us?
They'll ALL DO THE JOB IF YOU HIT THEM "WHERE THEY LIVE".(HEART, LUNGS,ETC.
The one I hit where it "lived" w/ a rage did a damn good job of eluding me. If it weren't for the snow I know for a fact I would not have found that deer. That deer would have died faster if I shot it w/ a field point.
I am surprised this has never come up before... Very interesting topic
Me, too, Jack!
I had no clue people had opinions on such things.
Nice stir earlier, Bou, very nice. :-)
TX, I've written about "failures" with a fixed blade at how easily the legendary Bear Razorhead could fold up if it hit bone.
Also I had friends have blades break on on Wasps and Satellites.
No such thing as a perfect head.
Right, no such thing as the perfect head, but they're far from all the same and cover a wide spectum from great to garbage.
That's why it's our responsibility to be objective, critical, and choose and use the best we can.
I used Rocket mechanical heads on several deer and... well let's just say... never, ever again.
I believe archers' concerns about broadhead types do not represent a large enough demographic for mythbusters to undertake the study.
I too miss Woody's insights.
Good suggestion. We need more news on mainstream TV about which weapons result in the most blood-letting while hunting. The best medium for this prime time televised event should be on a lion carcass just so we can get real world first hand examples out to the masses on this important social topic.
Have you reached out to the producers of the show with your suggestion?
This thread wasn't intended for bowsiters to back up there OPINION - I mean I know we all have one.... or two.....
I'm saying it would be cool to see a third party test what we have been auguring about for years. to see it in high speed, and see what happens up close.
they could test several different areas.
accuracy dependability - does it open in flight?? penetration lethality - how well it cuts durability.
olebuck, all bets are off when the two words "fixed" and "mechanical" appear in a thread title. LOL.
I don't argue about it. I know the correct answer.
Ok, so lets put together a comprehensive list of popular style BH. I'd say 5 at the most, any more could get mundane for tv.
I say if anyone has connections here they should set up a special invite to mythbusters for their show. As pointed out the regular remote jockeys could care less about bh's. This would highly improve odds of getting the info aired. Heck you could have them do a full 30min of testing which could include far more bh's, but then some sponsors would get butt hurt.
1. Forward deploying mech. spitfire? 2. COC. Stinger/striker? 3. Standard BH. Thunderhead? 4. Rear deploying. Rage? 5. Chisel point. Muzzy?
"You can set the test parameters to slant either direction. It would be very difficult to have a neutral test. I would use the broadhead you like and go forth and have fun." -ESP
I agree
You would also need these "Mythbuster" guys to be able to tune a bow.
Cover a piece of ballistic gelatin with a shoulder blade of a cow and shoot through it. See which does better, this will still not account for failures that mechanicals have more often than fixed heads. Ohiohunter, the fixed heads you mentioned are not representative of the better fixed heads on the market. Throw out the thunderhead and add the VPA 175 grain head. I have shot many heads over the years and killed too many deer to remember and the VPA to me is the best fixed blade head out there. Shawn
It really isn't a myth to me. Every bull I kill with a spitfire proves to me they're the best broadhead I can buy. Every bull I kill with a thunderhead proves to me they're better than all the other fixed heads I've used to kill bulls, and they're almost as good as a spitfire.
as they say, your mileage may vary.
Very few people shoot a 175gr bh, and even less shoot VPA plus its a coc. I consider thunderheads to be the most popular common designed bh.
Shooting a shoulder proves little to nothing on its own. You still need a control which would be a clean double lung.
Its no myth to me either wapiti, but I'd watch it thats for dang sure.
"All I know is that I have never read about a "failure" of a fixed blade. You put it in the right spot and it will do its job 100% of the time"
Welcome to the internet. I've killed ~70 animals with mechanicals and ~30 with fixed blades and I have had 2 failures of each type of broadhead. Yep, the ones that will do its job 100% of the time fail about 7% of the time based on my experience.
Could you give us some more details regarding the failures?
All 4 were failures related to the ferrules - 2 where allegedly due to the wrong grade of aluminum having been used by the machine shop, which resulted in the ferrule bending significantly when hitting bone. The other 2 resulted from the steel ferrule being overhardened, which resulted in shattered upon impact with something hard (come to think of it, both were after passing through an animal, so arguably not a failure). You could actually drop those ferrules on a granite counter top and hear the difference in pitch between the properly hardened ferrules and the ones that were overhardened. I'll let the peanut gallery guess which was which. ;-)
Of all the animals I have shot with MBH's (virtually all Vortex brand), I have not had a single blade actuation failure which is the type of failure most often theorized by those critical of BH designs with blades that actuate.
Good luck this season.
I certainly have not killed 100 animals like Matt, but I too used Vortex Mech heads religiously for many years...the 125grain Mini Max 3 for me. I loved them and never experienced a failure. I've killed one elk with a NAP Spitfire. More recently, I only shoot Magnus Stingers.
Not sure why I've changed so much over the years, but I'm fortunate to have never had a BH failure. In all my years of bowhunting I have only "lost" one big game animal I have shot. It was a Merriams Turkey [in NM turkeys are considered big game]. I was using the same 125 grain Vortex I killed elk with. The shot looked perfect, but the bird flew away never to be found.
As has been said here a few more than a billion times, make sure your broadheads are razor sharp and accurate. If you do that, the only way the head will fail is if you fail. As far as what happened with my lost turkey, I'll never know but I'm pretty certain it was my fault and he broadhead I used was a non-issue. lol
I have killed over 100 animals with a bow (mostly deer but also bear, turkey and wild boar) and I have never had a single failure of the broadhead kind, FBBH or MBH.Maybe I've just been lucky. Most "failure" is usually due to operator error in my opinion. However, Matt brings up a great point; if you shoot and kill a deer (or whatever animal you are aiming at)and upon recovery of your arrow there is some sort of physical issue with your broadhead, is that a failure? I guess we need to further define a "failure". Just food for thought.
I've never had a broad head fail me, but I have seen it two times with other guys, both times were fixed three blades...
Elkman, details details.
The evidence is in the details.. what constitutes your failure? The only failures I can think of w/ fixed bh is losing a blade which would typically be user error. Hitting a bone and deforming or breaking a bh is a grey area IMO b/c bh are designed to cut not act as a battling ram. But some bh hold up to this torture better than others, thats where the discretion of the hunter/customer comes in. Educated purchases lead to better results in the field.
If you're a patient hunter and wait until you get perfect broadside shots and shoot only for the lungs then you have a wide selection of bh, like all of them. If you're a hunter that takes the first lethal angle presented where you may contact heavy bone, or you like to really hug the shoulder and again may hit heavy bone then you would benefit from choosing sturdier bh's.
Mechs on the other hand could not deploy properly or deploy mid flight. After that it is all on the user, but even those issues could be attributed to the user.
I think bowsiters are more dedicated than the avg joe and do take some things like this into consideration, but we are the minority by far. So many choose equipment on the cool factor and not the function factor. Given the opportunity I like to try out the cool things but trust you me I will not depend on it until it has proven itself, until then it is back up or reserved for those special occasions.
Failure as a hunter perhaps, but you cannot blame equipment for personal short comings. Assuming accountability is first and foremost.
I agree, 2 holes is critical and even more so on large tough animals. A one lunged animal can go for a long ways.
A one lung animal can go for a long way.. LOL True that. I've been going for seven years as of the 7th o one lung.. Actually 2/3 lung capacity,, but you get the point.
You guys still at this? LOL! Broadhead debates are perfect circles - no beginning, middle, or end. Just round and round and.....
So, let me ask the question, why do you care what the other guy thinks? If what your using is consistently putting meat on the table then your doing the right thing anyway. Too many years here listening to those on both sides of the fence with near perfect performance from whatever head or type of head they prefer. And, conversely, some who experience 'failure', either mechanical/structural related or of the personal variety(see "accountability").
Do your homework, test things out, be reasonable thinking and analytical, have an open mind, ask smart people questions and then come to a conclusion. This isn't a tenth as difficult as some of yunz make it out to be.
You know, I was out on the lake the other week and ran in to another fella while docking who inquired about what method I used to "catch all those feesh" I caught. When I replied "trollin'" he became incensed......I mean to tell you, PO'D!! This expert went on to tell me why I was doing it the wrong way; all the while I'm having a blast and being productive mind you, doing what I like to do. Make sense?......sure doesn't to me.
Check our broadheads out.
You know deer season nears us when this dead horse rises again. Sorry Myth Busters has many flaws in there studies as well. Some people just like to argue. Check this pic out its ay more interesting then well this topic
Oh buddy just made some popcorn, now I'll sit down and watch!
I like broadhead topics. It keeps the information to the top of the list and not every bowsiter is a 10yr+ vet w/ 30yrs of experience. There are kids and guys who are just getting into the sport who really benefit from these topics and hopefully sways their choice to increase their success in the field. If its old news and boring to you why even open the thread? you know what's in it, much less to take the time and post in the thread.
How many old timers do you know that tell the same stories at the campfire? Surely you don't interrupt their story to tell them you've heard it before.
The topic also draws out people's experiences w/ different products, again very beneficial. If all this info was in one thread it would be taxing beyond belief to extract the information that actually helps. Esp when you have trolls on the loose.. heh hum.. jason scott TBM.
2 holes is critical?
If you need a pass thru to recover an animal, shot selection might be lacking. I've had a total of 4 pass throughs on elk in my lifetime.
Sorry for bringing it back up.
I just want to see a high speed video of a broader head going in and coming out of a rib cage.....
I just can't wait to gig one...
and I don't mind at all, I just was looking for a spot to show that pic, xxit like that cracks me up.
WapitiROBErT... Did I say I needed a pass through to recover an animal?
Well bob you are absolutely exceptionally fantastic.
I'd rather have blood pouring out of 2 holes instead of one, and I think very few knowledgeable people would argue with that.
Jason, ten years ago on this site I would've been inclined to agree with you.......all of it really. Fast forward to the present and there is no more information in this thread than there was a decade ago in all of the same. To be fair, however, there's no more misinformation either though'. What you see as informative I view as rehashed, convoluted and conjectured to death. Nothing like kicking a petrified pony.
You said 2 holes were critical. Desirable, yes, "critical", not so much.
Well, at least no one has yet claimed that mechanicals were invented for those who can't tune their bow.
Mechanicals were around before 'bow tuning' was even a pastime. You didn't hear about bow tuning back in the '80s.
Sorry bob, I'm no where near the literalist you are. My apologies. If I am not consistently exiting animals its time to change broadheads, so I guess you could say it is critical to me. *** I will add. I'm sure you read Jeff's story. Had he gotten enough penetration to exit the elk he lost, I assure you he would have either recovered or at least been able to track that animal via blood, not hoof tracks. When shooting from an elevated position the entrance is usually high, therefore it highly increases odds of recover. High hits take a long time to spill blood to the ground.
If it weren't relevant to someone it wouldn't continue to plague this site. It takes far more effort to open the thread and make a bitter post than it does to skip it.
If you would agree 10yrs ago then why not now? There are always new bh's coming out and there are constantly new archers. You may be a seasoned bitter vet, but the next guy may not. Like I said, its pretty easy to ignore a thread, no one asked you read and post in it.
Seems as though you're getting a tad flustered that I don't buy into your notion that a fixed head is the "be all, end all" of bowhunting.
Not sure where you get that "bitter" post nonsense or the "10 yrs ago" reference but in threads like this, I post my first hand experience, as have others. If it upsets you, maybe take your own advise? As you said, "...its pretty easy to ignore a thread, no one asked you read and post in it."
Seriously, maybe some quiet time would help you relax.
I remember Mythbusters did an Archery episode several years ago. The subject was "Robinhood Arrows" - shooting an arrow into an arrow. The 2 Mythbusters tried doing it and failed. In turn tbey brought in a Subject Matter Expert (SME) who launched muultiple arrows into a target using a compound bow and failed..(hit a nock or two but failed just the same). They concluded it couldn't be done. (How many Robinhood arrows do you have stuck in a corner of your trophy room or garage?)
My point is IF you structure the question good enough to spark an interest they may take your idea and run with it.
milnrick, Myth Busters also devised a machine to shoot arrows consistently at a target and the machine couldn't produce a Robin Hood either.
Thats because they didn't paper tune the machine and use the walk back method, check the spine of the arrows or introduce enough FOC.
Hey, wait a minute! LOL
Jason, you just answered your own question. Because the broadheads we had a decade ago aren't any better or worse at killing game than new ones coming out every year since then. Nothing has changed. Startup broadhead manufacturers and venerated companies alike will all tell you they have the next greatest thing in archery. It was a marketing ploy then and still a lie to this day. There is nothing new going on in the world of broadheads. Keep buying new ones though.....their business depends on it, son.
Hey boy...Who is jason?
Bh's have most certainly changed over the years. I don't recall seeing any conical points at the store today, nor do I recall the short stout ferrules in the past. TMK no broadhead has ever been offered in s30v steel until recently. You guys are damn good at side tracking a thread, its a shame, must have not taken your adderall. I'm surrounded by TBMs!
Bob, your first hand experience is criticizing my use of the word critical? I happen to like this thread, I don't exactly care for a few cynical clowns in it. If my shot placement is good and I do not pass through something is wrong.
Maybe it doesn't pass thru because the near leg is forward and the off side leg is back, blocking the exit?
If you're behind both legs, ribs thru ribs, I would expect a pass thru with decent bow poundage and a head that isn't too large in cut dia. I don't normally get a pass thru because the off side leg stops the arrow.
I have no desire at this point in my life to try and create a setup that will break that off side leg and enable a pass thru. If I hit the near side leg, I hope my arrow bounces off and he walks away.
Short ferrules have certainly been around for at least a decade and cone shaped points are about too. That there is a 'new' grade of stainless is irrelevant and won't help anyone bag more game, and again, it is nothing more than a marketing ploy. You buy new crap and they will certainly make more of it every single year. It's only been going on forever now.
Bob, no one wants you to change anything.
I have not seen a conical point since the days of rocky mountain bh's and several others who are far less evident or non-existent in todays market.
To each his own on grades of steel. Apparently some people like it. I've never know any bh to "help me bag more game" than the next bh. Maybe you know something I don't. If I use your broadhead will you guarantee me a booner or more game in general? Sounds like you have it all figured out. I mean a bh isn't going to help me bag more game than I have tags for... thats a fact boy.
"You didn't hear about bow tuning back in the '80s. "
Sure you did. Chuck Adams went into great detail about tuning a compound bow in the book, "Bowhunters Digest, 2nd Edition".
I bought my copy of that book in 1982. Still got that book, and most if it is still germane.
the experience ive had with expandables has been poor. I would choose a fixed any day over a mechanical. I prefer a 3 blade uni body design
That's funny about the Robinhoods. I have a bunch of'em....even skinny carbon arrows. I'll send them pics.
Straight Arrow, so do we, which is why I found that MB episode so bad.
Bowhunter's Digest
2nd Edition
This is a very informative book on hunting with a bow. Here is just a sample of some of the chapters inside:
Choosing and using shooting gear
The how to of shooting
Bow-Tuning for accuracy
Aids to shooting improvement
Knowing the range
Fine tuning your shooting skills
Care and repair of tackle
Tree stands
Bow fishing and bird shooting
All about hunting on footand Much, Much More!
The mythbusters episode about robin hooding was flawed cuz they used the wrong shafting for arrows. They make plenty of errors on their show and I would trust real hunters before those twinkies ANYDAY!
Ohiohunter: It was blade loss in both instances. Animals did die though, so I guess it wasn't total failure.
Blades on the satellite fell out just looking at 'em
Elkman, what kind of bh? Usually blades falling out are user error. The only blades I've ever lost were when I was trying to align my bh's and ended backing them off too much (thunderheads), but never lost them on game always during practice. If the bh is seated properly blade loss less likely.
I'd say failure is failure regardless if game is recovered.
Bob, is satellite still making BH? I haven't seen them if they do.
Yes. Failure is failure regardless of whether game is recovered.
If a broadhead loses one or more blades somewhere along its path in an animal... fail.
If it tries to change an arrow's path upon entry and greatly impedes penetration... fail.
If one or more of its blades doesn't open.... fail.
Ohiohunter, why do you have such a facination withTBM? Everyone that challeges you is a TBM. You are so vitriolic. I read all your posts out loud in the voice of Dale Gribble on King of the Hill.
Ahhhh! That TBM!!!!!! He's everywhere !!!!!!
ummmm Excuse me Gents - but Hannah and her White Horse would like to interrupt this all too crucial debate by saying "Look at me - I am real... WTF are you guys arguing about when I am here, on this beach, waiting for a real bowhunter that shoots fixed blades to come sweep me off my feet and provide meat on the table, cuz I looove me some fresh venison...."
Hanna is welcome anytime she wants....
It would sure make Mythbusters more interesting. So would Hanna.
I have used Thunderheads since the mid 1980's. I have a few other broadheads I like but for a fixed blade I shoot Thunderhead. I had a man that owns a Archery Pro shop tell me a week ago that he didn't like TH because the blades fall out. In my opinion that is 100 percent operator error. I have shot dozens of animals, and have never had a blade fall out. ever. I have one that I use as a practise head. and have shot it 100's of times into sand backs and all sorts of targets. And still has the same blades. In my opinion, if someone has a broadhead fail, it is usually human error on the hunters part. Same for fixed blade or mech.
I never lost a thunderhead blade, poorly assembled is the only way that would happen.
I chose the thunderhead b/c I have experience with them and they are probably the all time most used fbbh. So of course there are others and who knows the time frame and bh(s) Elkman is referencing. For all we know they could have been a bh just like that 4blade on the bowhunter's digest above, and as wapitibob them old satellite blades fell out by looking at them. There isn't much meat keeping them attached.
I've played w/ those old conicals but never connected in those early early years of my hunting career. My first buck/deer was taken w/ a hoyt top cut.. coc 4blade.
I use fixed bade BH's because I feel they offer fewer variables than Mech's. I shoot wasp 4-bladed SST's they consistently hit within 95% the same exact POI as do my field points and they are bomb proof and are suprurbly sharp. I have killed way more than enough deer with them to know they work as well as any I have ever used.
Having said that, shot placement is the God of hunting success. Any archer with a cardboard a$$ knows that. I have killed 27 deer to date with fixed blade BH's. 25 were double lung hits, one was a liver hit, and one a frontal brain shot.
24 of my 25 double lung hit deer went less than 100 yards before piling up and dyeing. Only one Dbl/L hit deer went farther, and that was only +/- about 125-130 yards. My liver shot deer only went about 250 yards and bed down in the first thick stuff he found and died.
Regardless of what type BH you use, put it through BOTH of any deer's lungs and your chances of recovering it are exceptionally high. I have only lost two bow shot deer. One my arrow deflected off something, most likely a unseen branch struck the bucks shoulder bone at a extremely high down ward angle and had almost no penetration. At the hit the buck at blinding speed reached down pulled the arrow out with his mouth and took off, both after burners fully lit. The second buck as near as I can figure my arrow passed through the area above his lungs and below his spine. He was a huge 10 pointer with double drop tines, the land owner told me about and then later after I told him what happened, he called me at home to say he saw the same buck alive and well in late December.
Shot placement, it all begins and ends with shot placement, I don't give a rodents hind quarters what anyone says about anything else, you put ANY BH through BOTH lungs of any deer and baring some extreme external factor beyond your control like heavy rain or coyotes, chances of recovery are going to be 9 out of 10.
As a side FYI, I have a home made archery target held together by compressing the layers of foam between 1-5/8" unistrut. To protect my arrows and BH's from hitting said unistrut, I wrapped the unistrut in multiple layers of rolled carpet about 2" thick.
To date after three BH tipped arrows have gone through the carpet and actually stuck into the steel unistrut I tripled the carpet thickness.
Keep in mind these were all practice BH's dulled by many 100s of shots into the target prior to their untimely meeting with the steel strut. All BH's remained 100% intact even though all penetrated the steel up to the blades. Once shooting to my rear at 55 yards from a contorted kneeling position, long story short my Wasp tipped arrow ended up in a steel garbage can and remained intact upon removal. Try as i might with my Wave multi plier I could not rip out any of the four BH blades.
"The second buck as near as I can figure my arrow passed through the area above his lungs and below his spine."
Just an FYI, but there is no such area - it is a myth. In fact, the lungs extent up ever so slightly above the bottom of the spine. You were likely over the spine and did not recognize it, although it is possible for high lung hits to not be fatal.
I agree with Roger that in the last 10 years not much has changed, now in the previous 25 years a ton has changed. I shot steelforce 100 grain 4 blades for years, killed 50-60 deer with them, but as Roger said I kept buying them year after year. I shot 160 grain Snuffers for years as well and did not have to keep buying them. One off my compound the other off my traditional bows. I now shoot a 175 grain VPA broadhead off of both. The nice thing is I started with a dozen of them 5 years aog I believe and have 9 left. I have killed at least 30 deer with them and they to me are best head made. Again this debate has more to do with the hunter and their shot selection and knowing the limitations of the heads they shoot or maybe better, not knowing the limitations than the actual broadheads themselves. Just ask the folks who shoot 45# bows at 250# whitetails with any head and see how many get a pass through when put 4"s behind the shoulder on the deer broadside. I believe and it is only my belief that a coc head will get 2 holes more often than any expandable. Just ask Tiffany Lokosky(sp?)
I'm with the posts above who shoot thunderheads!!! I shoot slick tricks too but officially went back to 125gr thunderheads last year after finding a discounted box.....they are the best replaceable blade fixed head out there!!!
Mechanicals My favorite was the Shockwave then the scorpion ,,, but don't really shoot them anymore..
I did have bad experiences with a rocket 4-blade mini-blaster, spitfire that I thought opened way too hard and a rage that I shot a deer at 11yds from the ground with a 62# ross cardiac/Maxima 250's and it didn't penetrate much but it destroyed a single lung enough for me to recover the deer,,,,,,,,,I still have 2 rages in the pack and may try them on turkeys.
I really cannot say anything was totally the broadheads fault in ANY of my experiences but you know in your mind when something happens (just like a brand of car that breaks down in the worst traffic) your just not sure and just don't want to chance it again so you go back to what always worked and what was reliable.
Even in the 70s these did a great job. LOTs of assorted Biggame fell to them. I went to a 3 blade Rocky Mountain when they came on the market in the mid 70s.. Been shooting some model Rocky Mountain 3 blade 40 years now. Currently Ironhead
I have never used an expandable BUT I've had several friends that have used them & most have experienced some type misfortune with them. hat was enough to deter me from trying any. My 3 blades have more than proved their worth & capabilities on many & wide variety of Biggamae.
My brother-in-law was using Thunderheads about 8-10 years ago. Got a bad box where the blades wouldn't lock in place. Shot a monster buck found out later 2 of the blades fell out on the shot.
I got rid of all of mine shortly after that.
I like both, for deer and bear I wouldn't even consider a fixed, for elk and moose I wouldn't even consider a mech! I am 100% sure my taxidermy bill went up since I started using mech's, they just seem to hit where I aim when I'm into the 6th hour of a late November deer hunt and my form sucks. Never had a mech fail me
