Better Hunter?
General Topic
Contributors to this thread:
Standing side by side are two very accomplished archery hunters. They both hunt public land, DIY.
On the left is 'Bill' - A well known WT bowhunter. He shoots a very nice WT buck each and every year. Stuff you say wow!
On the right is 'Sam' - A well known archery elk hunter that shoots nice bulls each and every year. Bulls that are very impressive.
Neither one hunts the other's big-game. 'Bill' only hunts WT, and 'Sam' only hunts elk.
Which one would you say is the better 'hunter'?
Why?
I would say they are both good hunters, but not comparable.
Weird topic....props to both of them! Different animal different skill set.
I believe what you're asking is not who's the better hunter but, since all criteria is the same, which is harder to kill..a good WT buck or good bull elk.
Boggs +1. I'm a "Sam", ok with elk but not as educated or as good of a hunter on WT.
I don't think you can compare one specie with another and gauge how "good" of a hunter anyone is.
Chuck Adams, when discussing the issue of being a "good hunter" listed people that were better than him at specific animals, including WT. There's a difference though, when you have someone who consistently gets it done with all the different species they hunt.
That's a good hunter in my book. Someone who goes out and consistently gets it done, no matter the specie.
Both WT and elk present their own challenges that must be overcome. To consistently take a mature specimen of either specie is impressive, but apples and oranges.
Neither, because you don't know the whole story. Do they kill nice animals in multiple states? Or just one?
You'd be surprised how many nice WT get killed from the same tree year after year. Find that tree, and with the correct ground, big deer die each year and all said hunter did was watch the weather channel for the wind direction and voila!
Flip side, some guy finds a wallow/water source in a nice location. Hangs a stand, hunts the wind, and elk hit the ground. Said guy posts his picture under the successfull thread every year. How good is he?
In both scenarios, success is high, but neither makes them stand out.
That's the problem with most magazines, and even this site. You never get the whole picture, and many want you to think they're special and don't disclose the whole picture.
Depends on your definition of nice.
But if we are talking 180 class buck and 340 class bull-I say Sam the whitetail hunter is the better hunter hands down.
Here is why: Mature bucks are WAY more wiley and paranoid than the big bulls I have seen. If you elk hunt enough and let enough small bulls walk, you will see a big one. I don't believe that to be true of whitetails. I also believe whitetails to have an uncanny sense of when things just aren't right. They haven't winded you. You know they haven't heard or seen you. There is no reason they shouldn't come in, but they stop raise the white flag and blow out. Whitetails also seem to have a better sense of when things are out of place. That mysterious dark spot is always danger and they see it quickly. I think this is mainly due to their relatively small home range. Lastly, big bucks many times go almost entirely nocturnal.
Elk do one thing that instantly puts them at a huge disadvantage: They bugle. Huge point for whitetails. Elk, even big bulls, can be relatively oblivious to the hunter standing 10 yards in front of them with no cover. I think they see so much country, they just don't know if something is out of place. Also, as long as the wind is in your favor, it is shocking at times what you can get away with near elk.
When people ask me what elk hunting is like my response is usually, "You can hunt elk like you always wanted to hunt whitetails". What I mean is you can be way more aggressive and really "go for it" at times. Where with whitetails patience and restraint are often the keys to success.
I think the biggest problem whitetail hunters have when hunting elk is they are entirely too cautious.
Either way, both species have been kicking my butt lately.
"You'd be surprised how many nice WT get killed from the same tree year after year. "
-Valid observation, Cazador. That stated, apples and oranges.
Not the same, it depends on the property.
I have a friend who has killed a ton of big whitetails and his dream was to retire and hunt elk. He said they presented a whole different challenges. Well he moved to Arizona about 10 years ago and kills a big bull most every year, not just in Arizona but New Mexico and other states. I believe a good hunter is a good hunter and once he learns the animal he chooses to hunt he will do well. Shawn
An elk hunter buying landowner tags every year is going to do very well on public land, DIY. Killing big whitetails consistently on public would be much more difficult IMO.
Public land "big" elk are easier and more plentiful than "big" public land whitetails. Elk live in millions of acres of public land. Whitetails that live in public land are much fewer and the public land is many times smaller than what the elk have.
If Bill is killing "big" whitetails every year on public land he is the better hunter IMO. I'm not saying elk are that easy but I have hunted elk for days and never saw another hunter. I have hunted deer on public land and swore I would never do that again if I ever got out of the traffic jam I was in there.
If Bill is honestly a good hunter, though, he's going to know where to go to get away from the traffic jam. It doesn't matter what specie you're hunting. You're not going to have consistent success on mature animals if you hunt the traffic jam.
if both are having fun I doubt they care about the other and how they stack up nor should we. why does everything in this sport need to be racked and stacked and compared.
Both are good hunters.
Both play a different game.
Both are probably capable of learning the others craft.
Both are killing good animals in spots where good animals exist. That is the key.
I guess I am a Fred. I normally shoot something legal and enjoy the backstraps. :)
Tougher to kill a wow wt on public than a wow bull on public much less do it yearly.
If TBM was that good of a hunter he would post under his own name. Why not man up Steve?
I agree that it is like comparing apples to oranges. The small amount of info. we have makes it a more difficult comparison yet.
I really expected this thread to be started by Bighurt. But at least he chimed in I guess.
Personally I don't care who is the better hunter. I care about becoming a better hunter each and every year, but I could give a rat's ass how I stack up to anyone else out there.
Geez you guys. Lighten up. Remove that stick from sitting in that tree too long.
This site is about 90% entertainment and 10% useful.
Consider this thread in the 90%
I would also say time is a factor. Give a lot of guys a month to hunt public in prime states and if they are good hunters they will be successful. Time in the woods and timing has a lot to do with success among the ability to figure out when that is. Shawn
This one is tough. A lot of factors to consider for both, especially the whitetail guy. Lots of variables there. Public land whitetail hunting can be really hard when aiming to shoot a mature deer because varying on location, those odds can be less than general archery elk.
If I had to vote, I would say elk having experienced both.
Interesting that shooting a good buck from the same tree every year got brought up. I agree it can happen. I have some stands that can produce every year. Interesting though of all the good bucks I have shot. Only 2 have come from the same property.
I wouldn't say either one is better then the other. But I do think killing a "very nice" whitetail on public every year is pretty dang difficult.
For your scenario I think the elk hunter thou. I bet he has to work harder to get it done. Elk live in generally steeper rugged country than whitetails.
I think the best Hunter thou is the one who can kill anything he hunts. If he hunts elk he gets it done. If he goes after whitetails he gets it done!
Actually....
The guy that took a good 'lope or coues spot 'n stalk has my attention.... =D
What Ermine said, the elk hunt is normally a good deal more physical, that thins the herd a bit.... the deer more local knowledge, that and an ozonics or something.... heheheheh....
Both depending on the situations can run the range from easy to near impossible...
Haha not sure but I can tell you which one is in better physical shape lol
I am with Bowfreak-----
I am a Fred! haha
Comical thread cnelk---thanks
Good luck, Robb
I agree with Ermine. If one hunted both routinely, I think they could be called Sam Bill. :)
In the meantime, I am Rick.
Which ever one makes the most money......that guy.
The one with the hottest wife/girlfriend :)
They both sound like good hunters to me.
I say equal. If you played "trading places" with them it would not take long for the whitetail guy how to hunt elk and vice versa. To me a good hunter will be able to adapt to the game they are pursuing.
Hunting whitetail can be easy but he said ...very nice deer...that make you say wow on PUBLIC land....They might both be great hunters but the guy who can kill a buck that makes you say wow, on public land every year that is always pressured, crowded, a place where anyone can hunt any way they want, scout and walk around any time has my vote. He didn't say which hunt is more physical....elk hunting is by far, but to kill a WOW buck every year on public land is very, very hard to do. Bill- hunting whitetail on public land in PA, NY, NJ, etc.. etc. ?? Sam- hunting elk on public land in AZ ,NM, CO, WY etc. etc. ??
Between Bill or Sam....?
The correct answer: Me.
The one that gets up early and fixes breakfast, stays late helping blood trail and pack meat, and smiles the most when the hunting & weather stink.
Whichever one brings the better bottle of whiskey to camp gets my vote. Otherwise I'd be happy to hunt with either.
Neither... Or both, maybe. Ask a flipped question, you'll get a flipped answer.
IMO. Find me a mule deer hunter that consistently kills big muleys each and every year hunting public ground. Now that's a hunter... Can't believe he wasn't included. Unless he's doing it over the same water tank each year, and he's always the first one there. As Caz points out.
Actually, having done all three. And not from the same treestand, same mountain honey hole or same water tank. Elk hunting is still the toughest to score on big bulls year after year. Yes, elk can be located because they're vocal. But they also like to hang in usually the thickest, steepest, nastiest terrain they can find (at least the public land big bulls do). And for good reason. Safety... To hunt elk on their terms in their terrain means doing and being everything a good WT or muley hunter has to be, plus you have to be in top physical shape and willing to go where many shake their heads and turn back.
I'll vote for the elk hunter.
I considered this question. I know from experience that you can not judge a hunter solely on the game he takes home. I do not hunt elk so I will refrain from the WT/elk question. I know a guy who often takes home a big buck every year. I also know a guy that sometimes comes home with a nice buck. In this case sometimes beats often . Why; the sometimes guy hunts hard and hunts varied locations. The "often" guy hunts posted land where he is the only hunter. In my opinion the better hunter is the one who hunts hard and attempts to learn each day out.
Following the theme of what some have posted - Either way you spell it, I'm still BOB - and back straps are me!
I would love to see some answers from guys who shoot both every year from Public Land. I know there are guys that do it. I also would agree about the Muley hunter. I just got back from Kansas and a guy that stayed in the room next to me at the motel was that guy. He killed a very nice 140" plus muley after about a week hunting in NW Kansas on public land. When I got talking to him, he showed me pics. of bucks he had killed the last 7 years straight. All on public land. The one he had just killed was by far the smallest. When I asked him why he took this buck, he said he was in the middle of building a new house and only had a week to hunt. Again someone who is a good hunter will kill whatever he chooses to hunt. Shawn
I'm not even close to being a great bow hunter but no one has more fun bow hunting than me!
Midwest - that means you ARE a great hunter!
My kinda guy brotsky!! Crown, makers, knob creek, or woodford reserve and I don't give a rats ass how they hunt
All I will say is this: You can be a "Bill" even if you are a 350 pound couch potato. If you want to be a "Sam", well that's a year round physical grind...
Im going to say elk hunter. If you can consistently kill big bulls on public land...that says something. If you can kill elk consistently you can kill anything.
I've got limited experience with whitetails and I've never killed a big one but they're tendency to be extremely patternable makes hunting them relatively easy. Whitetails are like the largemouth bass of the fishing world. Lots of fun to go after, can be found almost anywhere but not that hard to be successful on.