Cabela's I will never shop there again
Elk
Today I went in to Cabela's to buy my grand daughter a 243 for Christmas. I have both a drivers license, And a concealed weapon permit both with the same address on them. The county changed my address this summer. I still get mail every day with my old address on mail. But the guy at Cabela's would not sell me the gun due to my new address not being on my IDs. I did not move the county just changed my address for the 911 system. I hour before I bought a 22 at a different store, using my concealed permit and had no problem . After a few words with the duck word coming out I left the store and will never set foot in or order anything from them again.
When I think of MT, the last thing I think of is a place where people are disqualified from buying guns.
How'd he know about your new address anyways?
they don't care. and I don't blame them. the cost of one customer is irrelevant compared to the potential issues to the brand if a policy is violated and an incident occurred that is tracked back to them or an employee not following the law with precision. heck, even if nothing happened of a nefarious nature with the weapon they are exposed to penalty.
they were not wrong, just applying the rules literally with regard to a serious retail transaction. You were not buying a rake at the local Home Depot after all.
if they sell it to you and nothing happens they make $80 bucks margin on a gun........that is immaterial. if they sell it to someone and the guy uses the weapon in a mass killing incident or takes out one famous person with the weapon and it is learned that Cabelas was negligent in cross-checking at the sales counter the cost to reputation and shareholders value would be massive and directly proportional to the magnitude of the incident the gun was involved in.
so..........you'll go to someone else who cares less about the risk and exposure and that guy will sell you a gun. the guys at cabelas will sleep well knowing the company is not put at risk to make one measly gun sale. seems like a good outcome for all.
Idyllwild, ATF Form 4473 requires current address for the purchaser. The ATF can (and will) audit those records and violate the store based on mismatched information - that includes the ID they are required to copy and file with 4473. If the form is inconsistent with the ID, that's a problem.
Sucks and I get your frustration but the Cabela's guy did absolutely the right thing.
-edited for clarity
I'm with bou bound on this one. sucks, but he got it right.
It's a shame that this is what the country has come to but 'bou is right. You can blame the rule but not the store for following the rule.
The store is simply following protocol! It sucks for law abiding citizens but these are the safety measures that will only get more strict in trying to deter gun sales to those looking to do us harm.
Also curious about the words you had with the "duck word"??????????........ coming out of the store. Did you let him know you believe he should have knowing violated the gun sales law for your convenience? how did the conversation go.
Dan I had the same thing this spring. The lady acted like I was a terrorist!
Maybe you should have gone to the Cabela's in Chicago.
Cabela's is well known for their policy of adhering carefully to gun laws, and erring on the side of caution. If a guy can't appreciate that then I can't support that guy. I think the anger is misplaced and (if deserved at all) should go toward the criminals who make the laws necessary, or possibly the over-zealous politicians who work to enact some fairly ineffective gun laws.
as a ffl dealer the law states that the address have to match,think im going to jail or get a fine for you you are just typical of the crazys that come in and try to bend the law
Got to agree that you are out of bounds here Bigdan. Get your permit and drivers license amended to reflect the correct address.
There's a Cabelas in Chicago? I only know of one at the very western edge of Cook County in Hoffman Estates.
I'm not surprised after all the guy thinks turkey hunting is easy !!
Actually 2 Cabela's outside Chicago. One is near Schaumburg and the other is in Hammond. But you know...if it's in Cook County....
Most of these guys are probably city-slickers Dan, so they probably don't even know what you are talking about. The letter of the law may be one thing, but I feel your frustration.
We got first-time 911 addresses in the spring. In all likelihood, nobody's getting here in time if there is a fire or emergency anyway, so in essence the 911 addresses are kind of pointless. When someone moves and they don't get their current address changed everywhere is one thing, but it sucks when you are forced to change for basically no reason. It's a pos system.
Franzen, I'm pretty sure most of us on here know what Dan is talking about. It's just that his frustrations are pointed in the wrong direction. I'm not sure what good it does to cuss out some guy at Cabelas for doing his job correctly.
Dan, Same thing happened to my Father in Law here at a gun shop in KY. Pissed him off as well. Pretty sad when LAW ABIDING citizens can't buy a firearm legally. Tons of our laws and regulations are just plain STUPID. He won't go back to that store either. I've bought my last several guns online at gunbroker.com and have them shipped to my local FFL holder. The FFL guy seems to appreciate the business.
KY
"Pretty sad when LAW ABIDING citizens can't buy a firearm legally."
the point is he was NOT trying to buy it legally or they would have sold it to him. Dan's a great guy and no threat to anything but an elk, but he was not in a position to buy the gun legally. Technically, had be bought it he would not have been "abiding by the law" nor would the salesperson.
facts suck sometimes but they are still facts.
Ditto above-----I just had an experience with Cabelas this weekend-- I have a store about 90 miles away from my home. I called to see if they had a certain product in the store. The sales person told me over the phone there were two available. I left my home early to get there for when it open the next day. I check in the store and couldn't find the clothes I asked about. The sales person went check in the warehouse n still couldn't locate it. "She" called the supervisor and he went look. The computer showed two in stock. The supervisor called a warehouse in DC and there were 10 in stock. He said he would get them to overnight the product to my home. On top of that he said they wouldn't charge the overnight shipping and gave me a large discount on the Sitka gear. I believe that's what you call SERVICE--my clothes arrived in time for my Ak hunt.
Cabelas is one of the largest firearm sellers in the county and the ATF would love to shut them down. they follow the law very closely. A valid government issued ID. Its the law.
Perfect example of why that crap doesn't work! Only one it causes problems for are the law abiding citizens.
Yes the laws are generally poor and do nothing about crime. Going postal on a business or its employee for following the law is not the answer. Expecting them to overlook the law is not the answer. A guy or company with an FFL has no option...they either honor the law or break the law period. It makes no sense to think Cabela's was acting in an arbitrary fashion. In the end...considering the behavior and language used...the Cabela's people probably felt good about the non-sale.
"It's just that his frustrations are pointed in the wrong direction. I'm not sure what good it does to cuss out some guy at Cabelas for doing his job correctly."
I can't really disagree with that Griz, but in the heat of the moment sometimes things happen. That guy will surely live to fight another day.
I think your reading comprehension is pretty poor Grant. Dan is a law-abiding citizen who can't buy a gun legally because of some silly technicality, not because he is breaking any law. Is it the system that prevents him from doing so? Yes, and it is a poor one, and the argument of the constitutionality of it is for another time and place. Should he direct his anger somewhere else? He likely should, but see above.
I legally sold a shotgun to a gentleman and he killed himself the next day with that shotgun. I spent four days in court answering dumb questions when the family tried to sue me. I followed all the rules but I still wound up in court answering insane questions. Thankfully I did everything by the book and I am not the kind of guy that will let a lawyer bully me with stupid questions. Case was dismissed!
"I hour before I bought a 22 at a different store, using my concealed permit and had no problem ."
So, would this store get in trouble with an audit?
If I had cursed out a clerk who turned out to be right, I would be a little embarrassed to shop there again also.
Dan,
Still curious about the words you had with the "duck word"??????????........ coming out of the store. Did you let him know you believed he should have knowing violated the gun sales law for your convenience? how did the conversation go. Did you get the guy straightened out.
Bou is right on this one. They were just following the law.
Bou
Why would Dan answer anything you ask on this thread or anything else? Maybe you all are friends, and share stories daily, but from the crap that he's been taking based on his post, I would doubt it. I just love how the internet makes everyone "experts" on lots of topics they truly know VERY LITTLE about. Who knows, maybe you are an attorney that has an FFL number, but probably not. You have obviously bought into the media frenzy of "sound bites(sp)". Instead of bashing a guy for giving an opinion, why not try to add something CONSTRUCTIVE so that it will actually HELP someone in the future. I have learned alot of good bowhunting info here on Bowsite over the years, but lately have noticed a sharp "spike" in rancor. Why? Just don't understand it. Maybe it makes you and others feel better to try and make someone look bad? Alot like the kid that shot the buck a day or two ago that was slightly "quartering to" and he gets lambasted for the shot while his Dad was just trying to get some good advise about what to do after the shot. Come on! Pretty sad if you ask me.
KY
just like everyone else on this site you are as entitled to your opinion as any. The site is based on sharing.
please tell me if there is a single word in my response to you above (and shown below for convenience) that is inaccurate or if it is just something you disagree with.
"Pretty sad when LAW ABIDING citizens can't buy a firearm legally."
the point is he was NOT trying to buy it legally or they would have sold it to him. Dan's a great guy and no threat to anything but an elk, but he was not in a position to buy the gun legally. Technically, had be bought it he would not have been "abiding by the law" nor would have been the salesperson.
facts suck sometimes but they are still facts."
I think that is all accurate and even complimentary of Dan's character (the great guy comment) and well renowned skill in elk hunting. Regardless, forget the name of the person involved and just look at the facts as the person stated them himself
A guy goes in to buy a gun
A guy is told he can't buy it due to inaccurate and conflicting records
That information is accurate, the records do conflict.
Selling the gun in such a manner is not in accordance with the law. That makes it, by definition, illegal.
A guy then gets mad at an employee for following the law
A guy then gives the employee, who is just following the law and trying to keep his job, a piece of his mind as he exits the store
A guy then jumps on internet and says he's done forever with said business for their treatment of him.
That is what happened according to "the guy". Nobody else's interpretation, just what "the guy" said happened. In my opinion, and it is only as valuable or worthless as anyone's on here, that is misdirected animosity and patently silly.
That is neither an indictment of "the guy" or in this case Dan, but instead of an isolated reaction to one isolated instance that was brought up on a public forum for discussion.
that discussion is what is taking place now.
Maybe I am missing something here but I don't think anyone is "bashing a guy for giving an opinion". No one has said a negative thing about Dan, they have just been discussing the topic he brought up.
Get online , log onto budsguns.com and buy what you want.
I recently called cabelas and asked them to hold 1 (of the 2) gun they had in-stock in the caliber I wanted - they agreed. After a 25 mile drive I find they did have my name on it but couldn't sell it to me because of a glich (superiversor not available to check it into the "system" from in-stock status ??). Anyway, maybe partially since I didn't give anyone a cussing, they gave me a $50 gift card for the inconvenience & I picked it up 2 days later when I was in the area again on unrelated business. Seemed to me they made the best of a bad situation & I have no complaint with them as I understand sometimes "stuff happens".
I agree with Bou on this one. I recently was in SC and wanted to buy my daughter a .22 pistol. I knew I could not buy it, even if everything was in her name. She had the same issue, her address had changed due to a new road being installed and connected to hers. She had tons of evidence with her, Two forms of ID, electric and phone bills with the changed address. The guy said he did not care and for it to be legal she needed to go get it changed on her drivers license she even had a letter from the motor vehicle but no license with actual new address no pistol. Cabela's was smart to not sell you that gun. Shawn
It's NOT Cabelas, it's the LAW. What's the clerk supposed to do...? Maybe he should break the law and get fired for following the rules.
The rules (laws) might suck, but the clerk and/or Cabelas didn't write the law(s), they are just required to follow them.
It's a" meat grinder" process to buy a gun in many states now, just like CT, California (where I live) is an example of it. You either be patient and follow the rules, work to change the rules, or move to a different state. But you can't blame the clerk or the store/business.
Misplaced blame there Dan....it really lies with the liberal politicians.
FBI has completed a study on mass shootings pointing to the root causes- essentially mental instability....but these facts still don't get in the way of Obama shouting from the rooftops, "Guns are the problem" after every shooting.
Pat, I know exactly what you mean now with CT gun Laws. I drove all the way to E. Hartford to buy a new shotgun at Cabela's and they couldn't sell it to me. The guy behind the counter felt horrible and apologized up and down and said there was nothing he could do even though I have a concealed license permit, firearm id etc etc. Times have dramatically changed.
XMan
KY- there has been no negativity towards Dan. I agree with most everything that has been posted here. I do believe there is some misplaced anger on Dan's part. Frustrating yes I see that, but he is still in the wrong this time.
Yeah, come to NY with the SAFE act if you want to buy a gun. It has become a PIA! Shawn
Beav hit the nail squarely on the head earlier. The only people these laws cause problems for are law abiding gun owners.
come in France!!!!! if you are a hunter...problems with dealer, customs, police.... if you are a dahesh member.....no problem !!!! that's why EU want to change the laws for fire arms....more complicate for hunters, always so easy for terrorist!! Vive la France!!!!
I am always amazed at how some people on the Bowsite are so quick to 'eat our own.' I can see how Dan or many others (including me) here would have been frustrated over what happened. Instead of throwing barbs at him why not simply point out that it is the law...that approach thankfully worked for many who posted a response.
Oh, and like I posted on another thread maybe the Bowsite needs a 'safe area.' Just kidding! :)
Such a great post Pat. I agree with those thoughts to a T. I think some of us can see exactly why our country is heading the way it is heading (or has already headed).
I don't get it. Bou and others have done nothing more than point out the obvious. Don't see where anyone is "eating their own". Just because a Bowsite icon started this thread doesn't change the fact he was wrong in this instance.
If you want to be mad at politicians, fine. If you want to be mad at the world we now live in, that's fine too. But to get mad and go off on a guy at Cabelas for just doing his job? C'mon man.
If you were buying it for someone else, isn't that a straw buyer?
This thread is a perfect example of why I don't bother to post anymore. Mike
I purchased a muzzle loader from Cabela's which, remarkably is still subject to Illinois' waiting period. ( Lotta drive-by shootings and armed robberies using muzzle loaders )
I ended up having a meeting at a customer's facility about five minutes from the store on my pick up date, but I couldn't pick up my muzzle loader because it was three hours before the end of the waiting period.
So, I had to drive thirty five minutes back to work. Then after work, drive fifty minutes in traffic back to the store so that I could then drive another forty five minutes in traffic to get home.
Just some of the idiocy of Illinois. It wasn't the fault of Cabela's.
I know here in NY I could not mention I was buying it for anyone but myself. If I did they would not be allowed to sell it to me. I agree the laws make no sense but they are the laws and we must abide by them. Shawn
Given the insane amount of attention to shootings and mass murders these days, it's simply a fantasy to think that a large company is going to bend the rules of firearm purchase for anyone. One wrong move spells disaster.
F-bombing the Cabela's guy is about as right as doing it to your postal delivery man for the policies and practices decided in Washington.
You can be old school and decent. Abusing an employee for following the law will get you eliminated from many businesses. That includes mine.
Curious as to how long your license has had the old address on it. Not sure about your state, but in WI. you have 60 day's to update your drivers license, or you're breaking the law.
Shiptons if your in Billings
"The county changed my address THIS SUMMER"
"Dan is a law abiding citizen who CAN'T buy a firearm legally BECAUSE OF A TECHNICALITY"
The blame lies squarely on Dan on this one gents, all the law states is that the address used must match a government issued document, I've used a vehicle registration before.
Dan filled out the 4473 with his new address, Dan had since summer to update at least one government issued document with his changed address. Dan can go buy a gun legally as soon as he gets a government issued document with his current address on it. It's not the technicality of the law that stopped him from purchasing the firearm, it's Dan's failure to adhere to the technicality of the law...
When I worked in retail, I turned away many many people from purchases of this very nature. It's incumbent on us as citizens to adhere to the laws, regardless of how silly we think they are...
they should have a form that you can fill out with your new address on it and stick it to the back of your drivers license, I had a gun store in Missoula do that for me this summer when I bought my wife a .380
Bummer deal on the Christmas present. Dan you already know the answer and Bou and others stated. The Clerk and Cabela's deserve an apology. They simply DID THEIR JOB! Your a good guy and should make it right in my opinion.
Cabela's has been over a $1,000 sponsor to our kids camp for over 15 years. Where we hand out FREE guns to kids. I know for a fact they love to see guns go to kids, but we have to do it right.
I thought this was Bowsite...? ;^)
This Topic has been locked. Thank you.
