I have done my best to make a detailed map of my current setup and the history with with buck, including where he was photographed, where he was seen (on the hoof during november of 2013 and 2015), the property layout, etc. This is private property and i am the only one that bowhunts; 3 family members gun hunt the property but have never seen the buck (to my knowledge). I understand that topography is not visible but i'm looking for any suggestions as i am beginning to look at this as doing a puzzle: the longer i stare at it and try to "complete" it, the more trouble i seem to have finding the missing piece.
The red arrow is key, it is the only two sightings that i have during this buck. Both were in mid november and he was traveling the same path on an afternoon hunt. Nearly all of the trailcam pictures that i have of this deer are at night aside from one trailcam picture of him that was taken this year near my existing treestand. I have other stands on this farm but they are not listed.
After seeing him 2 weeks ago i put a camera in the thin strip of timber that connects the north portion of woods to the south portion of woods (north is up in the map). This is the first year that there has been any significant sign in that strip including a couple rubs that appeared this november. The white square in the middle of the map is where i currently have a camera and i will be checking it at some point this week (it was put up 10 days ago after discovering the rubs). I'm debating on putting a stand on the east side of that strip of timber if the camera shows any evidence of the buck.
One key factor is that there are minimal sources of water in the north timber although this fall has been exceptionally wet. The main creek on the farm is in blue as keyed on the map. If that camera (or any others) do not show any evidence of this buck then i probably will not try to change anything or target him during the next few weeks, if it does then i will hang a stand in that narrow connecting strip of timber. Because he seems to be a homebody and have a somewhat small core area i am not planning on pressuring him this year without decent evidence of his pattern. I have a good relationship with the neighbors and of the several people that hunt the property to the east (and the several stands they have that are marked on the map) they do not seem to have seen this buck. Most are fair weather hunters and likely do not hunt much after the rut.
Any thoughts or advice is appreciated.
Existing thread on this deer http://forums.bowsite.com/tf/bgforums/thread-print.cfm? threadid=444091&forum=4
bumpinblaze4x4's Link
The agricultural fields on our farm are all bean stubble this year; the farm to the east had its fields in corn but all their crop ground was disced under and offers little to no nutrition.
Can you put several cams at 6A funnel, and also along the 8 stream to box that area in and see if he is coming and going?
I think that the neighbors high pressure tends to keep him in our timber and with no nutrients over there this winter i can mainly see him traveling north/south.
I'll be checking some cameras this weekend but i'm hoping to hunt friday-sunday afternoon and depending on what the cameras show i may hang a new stand.
Any thoughts on the area in the WHITE SQUARE? Common whitetail logic sure would make you think a mature buck would travel through a small corridor like that from one portion of timber to another.
If your assumption of his bedding is correct, Id say get a stand somewhere between 1A and 9, 20-30 yards inside the woodline depending on prevailing wind, how/where you access, and how far apart they are...
Other choice would be the oxbow/pinchpoint near 1A where you had the pix and stand sighting...
Actually not.Thats a funnel with two "hard" sides and mature bucks hate to be dictated to with that type of scenario.
Do like area 45 degrees NE to 6a just on east side of big bend in creek.
Good late rut area area with double perpendicular travel areas and lots of soft edge
Now when you go up 45 degrees northeast of the 6A stand it actually is a funnel of sorts not so much from map but from intersections of perpendicular movement through treelines. In that area we can use the nature of perpendicular travel against them.The funnel isn't linear like so many hunt but it is a collection of intersecting bisections of hard edge (treelines)Look at the different angles in which deer can enter the wood line perpendicularly and be in a hunting and killable position.
Too many guys get suckered into the obvious funnels when the obvious (white box) are against the very nature of mature "seeking" bucks.
If gun pressure is heavy and deer NEVER cut across fields then throw my advice out the window but in most (shotgun,muzzleloader and short rifle season states) you have raised your probability.
"Funnels" are grossly overrated (maps kinda are as well) if they are solitary and represent boundaries of hard edge...they are against principles of energy conservation and old bucks are energy savings misers.
My above statement are for solitary seeking bucks.A buck tending a doe will go where she goes.My stands try to address both those scenarios so no hard funnels for me.
Every non food source stand I set from when I know the rut has begun will have a perpendicular travel (energy conservation)appeal
Soft edges would be mild topo changes,grass/small woody plants,small blowdowns and shallow water sloughs/ditches ie. things that are easily escaped through
Another thing to add is the open country in that area is hour glass shaped and appears to be low ground. It's easy for him to sneek across that field in that spot.
Good luck OP. Trying to figure out a big deer and then shooting him is very challenging and enjoyable.
If that buck is traveling that N-S power line...give him something on your property
The area where blue/purple/white circles meet is somewhat of a swampy low area with very little deer sign.
1-2.5" south of the white circle consists of a very elevated timber area that is a core bedding area on the farm.
The area around the orange/red/white circle is also eleveated and forms a fairly steep gradient that is high to the north, low to the south and west. Again, minimal deer sign in that area in regards to rubs/scrapes/previous sightings of mature bucks over the years. I'm certainly not saying you're wrong, i'm just trying to clarify the area even more.
I've added core bedding areas to the map as well.
Is the area used for access to other hunting spots with maybe more than usual foot traffic through it in a season?
Swampy low areas will usually have lots of light hitting the ground and be good deer spots from greenbrier coral berry and the like.....
I haven't giving up on it just yet.Have you hunting in there much or just haven't been too impressed with the sign so don't hunt it much?
10:00 -11:00 on the yellow circle is where I was talking about appealing to seeking bucks but boots on ground may yield gar hole...:)Yellow cirle is close to swampy area and topography change making it even more interesting
If activity is alot out the back of that metal building north then that may be a huge issue not allowing natural movement through those circled areas from the north
The white lines are common travel areas that the deer use (basically bed to feed and vice versa). Stand 13 is a very good pinch point stand as the deer often pass through that area when going from one bedding area to another or from agricultural field to bedding (and vice versa). I killed a mature buck in 2008 and in 2010 just south of stand 13 right on a creek crossing; a 3rd mature buck that i hunted for 2 years was found dead (EHD) in the same area so stand 3 and 13 are setup for that area but again, no sightings of him over there.
The orange squares are areas where i/we park in the morning and the orange arrows are morning travel routes we use to enter stands.
The red squares and arrows are the same as the orange but for afternoon hunts.
The property to the Southwest of us is our farm tenant that leases the crop ground. Great family, big hunter, etc. They have stands setup accordingly on their farm (as marked with black circles) but again, they have never seen the buck.
As i mentioned initially i am the only one that bowhunts this farm (well me and my wife) so until the gun season starts aroudn Nov 20th, we are the only pressure. We hunt very sparingly until halloween (basically field edges in the afternoon only) and then start hunting bedding areas and funnels during the rut. I will often sit all day in a bedding area where i can sneak in and out in the dark easily. Once gun season starts we now have 4 people hunting and pressure is higher although not exceedingly high by gun hunting standards.
Human pressure is minimal; the highway runs along the north boundary so vehicles are common and i do have a rifle range setup on the "driveway" that runs from the steel building in the middle NW to the highway. Its not used alot but there is more human pressure in that area (but i have killed a few real nice deer SW of the driveway in the area of stand 13 and 3).
The biggest oddity for me is that i've seen this buck twice in 3 years, both were after Nov 17th, the first sighting was nearly in december. If i'm hunting almost every day from Nov 1-Nov 16th (or so) during the peak pre rut and rut, how have i not seen this deer? This is what doesn't make sense to me and i can't figure it out. The neighbors to the east hunt alot and don't watch their winds so i dont think he would travel over there much during peak season but clearly he winters in that area as all of his sheds were found in a fairly small area.
I like the south creek area myself where the two creeks meet south of the north-south connecting timber. I think he would cruise parallel to the creek/ag fields scent-checking doe crossings. I would walk it and look for crossings. Hang a few cameras. If you don't pick up any sign of him there, head north where you know he beds in the 4A - 2C area during the winter and find out if that's his preferred hangout during the fall as well.
He's going to be bigger next year and you your bases pretty well covered. Keep scouting and narrowing his core until you feel confident enough to go in after him. He'll make a mistake eventually!
Not uncommon at all,I'd quit worrying about that specific buck.I've had some toads I see once in three years and never again....they can cover lots of country in Nov.....anyway I tried.
Genesis: I've never actually actively hunted this buck for this very reason! I never see him and can't pattern him so for me its not worth going crazy or exhausting myself trying to kill him (and i'm not worried about it now). I rarely target specific deer but going into this season there were 4 deer i knew were shooters and 5 years old or older on our farm (he would rank 4th as a target buck simply because i was after other deer and i knew that if i killed him either last year or this year, it would be while hunting a different buck or not specifically hunting this deer). I'm very fortunate to have a great place to hunt and fortunate to have killed several great deer on this farm in the last 7 years. It would just be an added bonus to kill him; that being said i think i would miss finding his sheds!
To be honest, i dont know that he will be bigger next year. Based on the previous thread he seems to be a 6.5 year old buck currently so i doubt he will grow much more. He has never had much mass but he is wide and tall. Regardless, he's a trophy in anyones eyes. I'm honestly curious to see if his right G2 is goofy again next year or if that was a development/injury issue this year.
I'll continue to update the thread should anything change.
I haven't hunted on land with a trailcam ...EVER and am not familiar with any changes in behavior.Pundits say their is none but usually I subscribe to for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction philosophy......
However,understanding what I said about perpendicular travel funnels and soft sided ones will put you in higher probability spots.
Lastly,don't get caught up in PATTERNING bucks.November is Pandora's box so hunt a bucks behavior/instinct and energy saving movements and doe areas.
It's alot simpler than we make it out to be
Hope you get him
As i mentioned early, i'm far from obsessing on this deer. I just thought it would be fund to "strategize" with others in regards to what i'm currently thinking about.
I only run a few cameras on our farm, the "camera map" is are just the orange areas where i have had a picture taken of him over the last 4 years.
Most of my hunting knowledge and scouting takes place during shed hunting in the later winter and early spring along with what i see during the season itself. I also do some bean field scouting in the summer but its more or less to just enjoy watching the deer, it doesn't effect how i hunt.
I wasn't trying to take the fun out of things so hopefully that wasn't the vibe i was giving out. I just wanted to get other hunters opinions, and i do appreciate everyone who has chimed in. I honestly don't expect to kill this buck which is why i'm far from obsessed with him or even actively hunting him but after 4 years of history, i simply wanted to share and get some more opinions.
thanks
I am guessing his core area is to the East and he simply has your neighbors hunting patterns figured out very well. And he transitions to your property for the winter.
What you see in the pictures is all there is to the east of our property. While he may hangout in one of those little ditches/draws, the majority of the bedding areas are on our farm and there are nothing more than crop fields east of the area on this map; literally no timber for miles.
And I feel a little silly, because I know you've killed more and bigger deer than me :)
But one recommendation . . . . instead of placing trail cameras where you know you're going to get buck pictures but many times at night (like field edge scrapes), try dedicating some cameras to areas of the farm you usually don't hunt, that may seem good, but for a lack of sign. Leave those cameras up for the whole month of November.
Some of my "best" stands are in areas usually devoid of sign. I killed 4 and 5 year old bucks last year out of a stand that didn't have a rub or scrape within 300 yards. But they were using it during November, they just weren't slowing down enough to make rubs or scrapes. They were cruising through. I "found" that stand based on terrain features, but lacked the confidence to hang there until I placed a trail camera there two years in a row on an old logging road, and got enough daytime buck pics to tell me I needed a stand there. Even though there was and is no sign there.
I have a mental problem, and often lack the confidence to invest one of my rare November sits in an area that I think looks good terrain wise, but never has any sign, that I've never spent any time hunting. Trail cameras have helped me get past this mental block a time or two
Ok guys, i should've done this in the first place.
Topo map of the farm. Feel free to recommend any good areas on the map that you would def. have a stand, regardless of this bucks history. Thanks!
One new factor is that i did hang a camera in mid october just east of stand 7A (7A is on a ridge that drops off to the east and there is an area of 6-7 cedar trees that always has heavy rubs along the area and this is the first year i've ever hung a camera in that area. In nearly two months time (primarily from October 25th to Nov 25) i had nearly every mature buck on the property on camera, including The fridge who has never been seen in that area. There were only two pictures of him and they were at the same time but it does open his area a slight bit but at the same time it offers me to help in killing him.
Right now i have no expectations of seeing him again this year other than the possible picture but i'm hoping to recover his sheds and hopefully that will shed some more light on things.
Saturday we were out shed hunting and found the carcass of "the fridge". It is tough to say how long he had been dead for but it wasn't too long; i had a picture of him right around christmas day in which he looked fairly healthy but his bones were picked clean as of two days ago (Jan 30th). It's a shame to find him this way but i guess i would rather find him now then try to set up to hunt him this fall now knowing he was dead.
It's tough to get an idea on his actual size based on these pictures (soon to come) but he taped right at 172" gross. His mass is average at best and he has short beams for a mature buck (21"). Still, a beautiful old buck.
It may sound silly but of the several deer i have my eyes on for next year, this is the one deer on the farm (and probably the highest scoring as of the 2015 season) that i honestly had the feeling i wouldn't get a chance at. As you can tell by the thread i had little to no idea on how to kill this deer. His 2 sightings in 4 years hardly coincide with where i found him and his sheds.
Certainly a bummer but it takes alot of 2.5, 3.5, and 4.5 bucks just go make one or two 6.5 year olds.
I really liked Genesis's post, made a few things click.
Im sure " Fridge" has some offspring in the area!
I dont want this comment to make me sound like i'm spoiled, etc. but if i had to find any mature deer on our farm (this buck is probably one of the oldest currently but i'm talking about any 4+ year old buck) dead, this one probably would upset me the least.
I love to hunt, i love the outdoors, i love all the time that goes into hunting and its fun to follow a buck year after year but THIS DEER HAD ME BEAT! It would have touched me more had i had many encounters with him and just been unable to close the deal but i had 4 years of history with this buck between trail cam pictures and sheds yet i only saw him twice; yes twice! I only hope he died quickly and without too much suffering because he was clearly a smart, old warrior.
Props to "the fridge" for avoiding me for so many years and then dying right in the center of his small core area where i had most of his history yet no encounters.
Closure is certainly the next best thing to success when it comes to killing an old buck. It's very difficult to learn from a mature deer when they simply disappear.
Thanks again guys, i hope i didn't come off as an entitled Jack@$$ because i know how blessed i am to even see deer like this.