One huge elk and two penetration fails
Elk
I came across this video on Youtube. If you don't want to watch the whole video/drama, its easy to skip through it and see the two shots. Both end up with terrible penetration and two overnight waits.
I'd bet money this guy has a higher draw wt than I do, but I can't imagine getting this terrible of penetration twice. I'm going to go out on a limb and blame his BH.
Grats to the hunter on an incredible bull and a pretty crazy hunt.
I just can't imagine hitting a bull in the shoulder twice and having to back out overnight both times.
Discussed it on AT months ago. I posted a screen shot of the first arrow. The bull ducks and the arrow slides up the scapula, negating any real penetration. Maybe if he was 50 yards closer the bull wouldn't have ducked as much?
That second shot sunk in good, crazy hunt!
I think he just needs a better hairstylist!
Kudos on an awesome bull. He was given a gift. Good on him for being there to take advantage of it.
I hope he learned from the mistakes he made. Broad head choice being one of them. The first shot was just forward. Plenty good with the right head. Bad with the wrong one. And, that haircut. My goodness, if you are going to make inspirational based films, at least look the part of being inspirational. Not gangster. God Bless men
What was his broad head I didn't see it clearly?
Awful loud bow. Awful long shot..
I don't know if he had a noisy arrow as well, but you can see VERY clearly on the first shot that the bull was popping the clutch well before the arrow got there...
Yes, this video was on another site about a year ago. I believe the shot distance was somewhere in the 45 yard range. Too, I believe it was mentioned he used a different broadhead on the 2nd shot.
Generally poor arrow flight due to not tuned well or under spined is the culprit. Not sure if the 1st head was a mech but it seems I remembered that it was? It was awhile ago! (grin) Glad it turned out well for him!
ElkNut1
This hunt was on the full draw film tour last year. After the shot amazing to see him exit the exact same way. One hell of a bull ! Hunt
GF, that bow was right beside the microphone. It isn't loud at all. I bet it's guieter than 95% of the trad bows guys hunt with. Elk just react to the shot a lot of times. Had a bull do it at 25 yards. Believe it.
The shot wasn't that far either. And, it is one heck of a bull. God Bless
I watched that video a while back. I'd have to say, I think he was shooting a good ways with how long the arrows took to hit.
I think he used a mech. the first time and a fixed blade the second time.
Pretty cool story about the bull coming back to his routine.
Thats rifle distance. Definitely not how I would have set up on that meadow.
Nice bull.
I think that shot was well over 45 yards. glad the guy got the bull. big bull!!!
Wasn't he using an expandable?
Expandables can do some weird things
Bullhound, I thought the same thing when I first saw the clip, but the guy came on the site & said it was somewhere in the 45 yard range, I remember it because I thought it sure looked further, more like 60 yards! (grin)
ElkNut1
Lots of thoughts on this video -- the least of which is another "team" making another "hero" video and trying to pass it off as a "film" for a "tour." And that hair/flatcap/etc. Talk about a face for hunting.
Incredible bull. Not sure I would have made the choice to go sit the same meadow after a blown opportunity. But it sure did pay off. I guess that's my only real question -- why did he do that?
Anyway...just this peanut's opinion.
Looks to me like the second arrow had the broad head sticking out the other side when the bull ran?
Did the hunter go on line on a forum and say he used a mechanical or are we just assuming he did?
I say regardless of what head he used his first shot hit shoulder blade and in the heaviest part of the blade at that. You can see the arrow stuck in the bull as he is running away. without knowing specifics such as total arrow weight and BH its just a guess what happened.
His 2nd shot was a good shot, Im surprised there wasn't more blood and it wasnt bubbly.
Congrats to the hunter, id be pumped too if I got a second chance at a toad like that.
Evidently, the first broadhead was an expandable. He makes the comment "at least my blades opened" when he is examining the wound from the first arrow while they are examining the bull.
He says in the video when he looks at the first shot on the recovery that the blades didn't open (right toward the end of the video).
Incredible bull!
Yeah, i posted this elsewhere as i think there is a lot to learn from this.
A couple notables;
1. Guys think "since I can group at 80yds on the target range so I can reasonably take long shots in the woods' [I think the shooter said 70 for this one]
....well its a whole different ballgame with animals in the woods as your concentration is different due to terrain, animal body position and movement, bow noise, etc
2. Guys think 'a faster setup is better'
....well every fast setup I've seen is louder...you can see this bull react to the bows noise. Shooting at an animal that made you or having a loud unnatural bow noise gives the animal time to react before the arrow gets there....actually wrecking shot placement.
That said....great video, kudos to the guy that made it...better than on TV for sure.
Bruce, I was hoping you'd chime in, I knew you were familiar with the clip. On the other forum I sure thought we all felt the shot was far but ended up finding out it was much closer? Maybe I'm just dreaming of it like i dream of elk! (grin)
ElkNut1
pretty sure the guy acknowledged the shot was 70 yards or so in the video.
When he approaches the downed bull the 2nd time, he stalks with an expandable so I assumed he was shooting the same BH.
Once he's on the elk, the dead elk has fletching and arrow sticking out of the near side. With a COC head, any compound bow shot that far from the big bones could pass through an elk without much difficulty.
I don't know. Light arrow? Expandable BH? Either way he had terrible penetration both times and the 2nd time there's not a good reason for it with the shot placement.
I'll 2nd the fact that hit right there, that I'd have expected a good and short blood trail, but the elk was still alive when he trailed it. The whole thing smells of poor BH performance.
Bullhound thanks! It's been a while since I watched the clip. It must have been all the talk about distance on the past thread that led me thinking it was shorter!
ElkNut1
Looked to me like the second arrow was sticking out the off side and prior to that shot it appeared to be a fixed head.
He made mention of blades opening while examining the old wound.
To me it doesnt look like he hit scapula, close but not quite, just bunched tight shoulder muscle. Had he just been closer the result would have been much better on that first shot I believe.
Wouldn't surprise me if the bull was 70 yards or better on both shots. This same crew made a video a couple years ago of the guy's Dad killing a bull during rifle season with a head shot at 685 yards and called it "Amazing Head Shot". I got hold of him and told him they should change the title to "STUPID"! IMHO these are the kinds of videos being put out that do us no good at all even when the animal is taken.
I would say the 2nd arrow got decent penetration under the circumstances. It looks like he had a fixed blade for the 2nd shot. But doesn't it look like there is another wound on the bull about 4 inches to right of 2nd arrow, just above the elbow?
In any case, great bull and good job sticking to it.
From what I remember of the video:
Before the shot the video shows his arrow and I would say it is a Muzzy T-3 expandable on the first shot. In the video he does make the statements of the blades opening for the first shot. I also seem to remember him saying it was a 70 yard shot on the video. Nice bull but shot way too far IMHO.
From: JRABQ Date: 04-Feb-16 I would say the 2nd arrow got decent penetration under the circumstances. It looks like he had a fixed blade for the 2nd shot. But doesn't it look like there is another wound on the bull about 4 inches to right of 2nd arrow, just above the elbow? In any case, great bull and good job sticking to it.
That wound you're talking about is the one from the first arrow a week prior to him killing the bull. Both shots were taken from too far out IMHO and you can tell that from the time of the arrow flight to the hit each time.
The really crazy thing to me;
Guys purposely choose the small short BH or mech BH planning to shoot long shots as they think they fly better....never mind performance.
From Topgun; "That wound you're talking about is the one from the first arrow a week prior to him killing the bull."
Could very well be, but in the video he claims the first shot to be at a much higher spot, even though there is not much evidence for it.
In my opinion the reason that bull got out of sight on the second shot is due to the fact it is low, and back and to me, this fools a lot of people, including myself until you go through it. Only thing that may help you on that shot is a large broadhead, Snuffer like, but still, not good. We saw the outcome even in this video.
I shot a bull a few years back in that same area, my shot was a whopping 25, but shot him for 20. The bull ran about 50 yards, stood there forever in the wide open, I mean 5ish minutes. Then decided to lay down facing upslope and 10 minutes later, he rolled down the hill. I could see him the whole time and I remember saying to myself, if he would have gotten on the saddle, that would have been a long day.
From my days in the elk woods when an elk is hit and run a bit, stop, and don't fall over, but start to walk off, you better cross your fingers.
All BS aside, that is a hell of an elk, and crazy how even when hit previously in that spot, took another arrow, and ran up the same trail. Wow!
That first shot is what makes me leery of aiming too tight to the pocket. I see guys aiming within an inch or two of heavy bone. If the animal reacts to your shot or who knows what else might go down, the probability of hitting heavy bone goes way up. I come off that v just a bit and play it a little safer. I've hit shoulder before and got zero penetration and it sucks.
IMHO this had zero to do with Broadhead performance and 100% to do with a poor shot.
Well, it does appear on the first shot that he hit the scapula, but how do you know he wouldn't have penetrated it with a heavy COC head?
Also, the 2nd shot he didn't bury to the fletches and there's no big bone there to stop an arrow.
We will never know, but at that range, my money says same outcome with "X" brand COC head with a 1000 grain arrow. They're good, and penetrate well, but I suspect the same outcome. People put too much faith in a "COC" design in my opinion. A bad shot is a bad shot and the odds over the long haul will show you BH design won't bail you out of shitty shots.
I have NEVER had an arrow hanging out like that with the fixed tapered design COC heads.....
....maybe I've just been lucky...or more likely the arrow slides in so effortlessly its through them before they know it.
"Before the shot the video shows his arrow and I would say it is a Muzzy T-3 expandable on the first shot."
Muzzy makes expandables now?
I like his haircut.
They looked to be fine shots but long and the fact that animals can and do move almost cost him. IMO, the poor penetration had to do with shot placement and distance more than anything else.
Grats to the hunter, great bull and it appeared to be well deserved.
Lots of armchair quarterbacking.
By the bull's reaction I'm wondering if he's hearing the arrow whizzing towards him and reacting from that instead of the bow noise???
I watched this video sometime ago and I really thought it was unusual that a bull of that age would casually come back to the same spot twice after being shot. And right in front of the blind setup no less. First thing that came to mind was bait. I'd like to think I am wrong but wondering if anyone else had the same thought?
Great bull and great hunt. Give him credit for sticking with it. Elk are creatures of habit and he had no idea what happened on the first shot. Not surprising he went back to that meadow.
Lots of good take ways in this video.
Broadhead into shoulder= lost animal no matter the Broadhead brand or type.
So what results did you achieve with a Grizzly broadhead AZBUGLER?
Oh no, the famed "Grizzly" the broadhead that parts seas, turns shoulder shots into celebration whiskey shots, gut shots into jello shots.
Time to get my Sunday best on, Ashby religion, we're about to get babtized.
Wasn't he using an expandable?
Expandables can do some weird things
From Topgun; "That wound you're talking about is the one from the first arrow a week prior to him killing the bull." Could very well be, but in the video he claims the first shot to be at a much higher spot, even though there is not much evidence for it.
You are correct! After seeing the stop action picture WB posted I looked at the recovery again and he actually shows the small entry of the first shot and it's way up high. He also says the blades did open.
"IMHO this had zero to do with Broadhead performance and 100% to do with a poor shot."
"Broadhead into shoulder= lost animal no matter the Broadhead brand or type."
- AZBUGLER
Do you use a mechanical?
LOL, yes I've used both fixed and mechanical. They both work. I've seen poor penetration with both and I've seen a lot of dead elk with both. I've also seen quite a few passthroughs on bulls with mechanicals. Its all in the shot.
Oh and never the GRIZZLY!
Yep somebody has to cut on the traditional bows guys and Ed Ashby along with coc heads. My trad bows are not loud like this doober's bow. A typical too light arrow out of a compound is what he's got. Solid heads are a hell of a lot more trustworthy than a mechanical head. Just because your wheelie bow can shoot out to 300 yards doesn't mean someone needs to take such a long shot. But considering the compound mentality of some compound shooters this fella fits in.
Shoulder shots, a good topic for another thread. I'll start it.
I think the guys name is Eric Chesser. They have some really good videos. I like that they don't bullshit you. There is actually a couple where they botch shots and don't find animals, but they don't hide it or lie about it. They usually punch their tags if they wound an animal. Very cool dudes.
Overall I thought it was a good video too. The guy is definitely not my "style" and from a different generation for sure. Not fond of the music, the flat hats, or the hair do's lol. But there is no denying these guys have a passion for what they're doing and enjoy every minute of the hunt. I appreciated their enthusiasm.
I could almost swear the camp shown at the beginning of the video was posted on a recent thread here on bowsite. I could be wrong but it could be as easy as just asking about the setup used.
My mistake on saying the name of the T-3 broad head was made by Muzzy, it is made by G5. Watching about 13 minutes in where he shows one arrow next to the broken arrow I would say just by looking it is a T-3 but I am just guessing. Definitely an expandable by looks.
Nice video. Congrats to the hunter for sticking with it! That bull is huge!!
Great bull. But his barber should not charge full price. Missed a big strip on the back on his head.
I THINK THE BULL WAS STILL ALIVE AFTER THE 2NDSHOT, because there is another hit just to right of the said kill show and he points to first shot high on the shoulder. 3 holes 2 shots hmmmm.
