how important is a rangefinder.
Elk
how many of you use a range finder when elk hunting? i never use one for whitetail, but am considering one for elk. i can confidently shoot to 50yds (if i know it is 50 yds)...
any recommendations for a cheap guy like me?
thanks
Next to my bow and binoculars, it is a must have for me.
If you use pins i believe it's a must have. You can know the range everything around you in seconds. I got a Bushnell Michael Waddell Bone Collector Edition 4x 21mm from Amazon when it was on sale. It's pretty nice for the price.
Bring spare batteries for it and anything battery powered. I had the batteries on mine die during a hunt.
if mine broke on a trip i would go to town and get another one right away.
Being able to shoot at distance is important, but if you aren't sure about your yardage it may not matter how well you shoot. It's not so important if you're between 20 and 30 yards. But being off by 5 yards at 50 could be the difference between a dead elk and a wounded or missed elk. I won't hunt without one.
Most times I haven't needed one, or more accurately, I haven't had the time to use it. However, there have been times I'm glad I had it. Like yourself, there are alot of people that can confidently shoot to 50yds if they know it's 50yds. Take those same people out in the elk woods, where they DON'T know the distance, and that confidence goes out the window.
IMO, they are indespensible if used correctly. If you use one in order to justify taking unreasonably long shots, I'm not a fan. OTOH, if you use them to verify the exact distance, within your effective range, then they are a valuable tool.
One other thought I forgot to mention. For those that are used to only hunting deer-sized critters, they aren't accustomed to how big an elk actually is. Doesn't matter if it's shooting at the real thing, or life-size targets at an unmarked 3D shoot, they almost always shoot low. Those big targets look WAY closer than they actually are. Even those of us that have been hunting elk for decades can certainly misjudge yardage. At the moment of truth, I have enough decisions to make. The last thing I want to have to worry about is "42 or 46...42 or 46..."
For the close times when you don't have time to use one it won't matter as you won't need exact distance.. for the long shots you usually have time to pull it out and use it.
For me if I didn't have one/broke it, it wouldn't end my hunt but it would definitely shorten my confident range. But I also wouldn't go on an elk archery hunt without one.
Depends on your experience. Less experience the more you need that crutch. I think its an expendable piece of equipment unless you plan on taking those long shots. Its easier to judge trees and bushes than the elk itself, as stated most people undershoot.
So you're saying you're good on paper to 50? Not exactly on game right?
If you're sitting it is def a confidence booster, if you're in the in heat of the moment trying to use it could foil your hunt, hopefully your shot is no longer than 20yds.
It comes down to whether your a 20 to 30 yard guy or a long range guy.
Many guys say they guestimate ranges well, but uneven ground, mountains,across ravines, it can be very difficult.
I keep my shots real close, so I can do without them but I'm always amazed how far off my guestimate can be.
Range trees and what not to get an idea. I've yet to use one just prior to shooting at an animal with a bow. A rifle, on the otherhand, is a different story. Some shots in areas I hunt are out to 500 yards.
I use mine all the time while hunting. Guess - that tree is 27 yards. Range it and see how close I was. Greatly helps my yardage estimation confidence. In the mountains, it also helps with uphill, downhill and across small valleys - anywhere it is not nice and flat.
for me, I have one and have ranged trees when sitting treestands. But in the moment of truth, I'm focused on the animal, their movements, terrain, and what yardage. Looking for the best time to draw/shoot. I also keep my shots below 40yrds. With some practice you can become very proficient at judging yardages.
Elk hunting is not whitetail hunting.
Get one and use it. I think this elk trip is going to be an optics eye opener for you.
You don't have to spend a fortune on one but you pretty much get what you pay for.
unless you are in god awful thick stuff you will probably underestimate your yardage. Things are generally more open and elk are a hell of a lot bigger than the whiteys we hunt near home.
I always have one with me and typically use it to range stuff before a calling setup up, but my last 4 elk came in so fast and close I havent neeeded to use it
I won't take a shot at an animal without using one unless it's close, and happens fast. I've tried several brands, and haven't had a bad one yet. The biggest key is get one that gives you the actual shoot to yardage for angle compensation. Four or five years ago I was using my Leica without angle compensation on a smoker typical muley that was pushing 36" wide. It had taken me several days of patiently watching and waiting for the right opportunity to slip in and get a shot. Needless to say the adrenaline was pumping and at 50 yards with a decent downhill angle, I didn't deduct any yardage and had the disappointment of watching my arrow sail just over his back. I went home and bought a model with angle compensation after I poured a glass of pendlton whisky to drown my sorrows. I bought the budget minded bushnell truth, and have really liked it since. They take one more thing out of the equation that can go wrong. I keep mine strapped to the side of my bino harness on an elastic tether so I can drop if need be. I always figure that if you can't slide your rangefinder up behind your bow and get a quick range with out spooking your quarry, you won't be able to draw either. I also find it very beneficial for planning the final stalk and knowing where you need to be to get within range. Especially on big muleys, I won't get closer than 50 yards before lining up a shot. At that distance they are crucial. I would go as far as to say they are more important than your binoculars on the final stalk.
Why would want to take any shot w/o a rangefinder, if you had one with you?
I keep one own my person at all times when hunting or on game recovery.
I have one, but have only had to use one twice elk hunting. There nice to have but some situations don't allow you the time to range especially when stalking a herd. I'm a pretty good at judging range out to about 40yds. If a bull is farther than that I won't shoot unless I can range him, and he'd better be relaxed without knowing I'm around.
Here's the bull I shot last year. If I would have taken the time to ranged him I'd never gotten a shot at all. He was exactly 38yds since I ranged the tree he was standing next to after my shot.
I hunt with a longbow. Best use for a rangefinder for me has been in not shooting. It can be easy to think something is close enough and the rangefinder can say "no".
I think it's very helpful. You probably won't have time to use it when it's time to shoot, but many times you have a chance to range some trees, rocks etc. before the shot presents itself and that can really help you make a quick and pretty accurate judgement when the bull does come. If it's a longer shot you are more likely to have a chance to range it, and those are the shots where it's more important. It's also the best way to learn to judge distances. You will have many chances to guess a distance while hunting and then put the rangefinder on it to see how close your estimate was. They're light, carry one
Very important! It's harder for me to judge distances in the mountains, especially when elk are in the open.
I didn't have one on a hunt in the mid-eighties & it cost me the biggest bull I've ever had a chance at. Probably a 350 class 6X6. He was feeding across a little swale from me in the wide open & I guessed him for 60 yards & hit him too high up in the spine, but it only dropped him for a few seconds. He got the feeling back in his back legs & scrambled out of there before I could get another arrow in him. I had several minutes to judge the distance on him & still guessed wrong.
If your gunna shoot over 30 yards it's crucial
As others have said, you don't always have time to use one. I practice on rocks and trees A LOT while scouting and hunting. Whenever I sit on stand, I range landmarks all around so if an elk trots by, I already know the range. I find that after a week or so of practice I'm dialed in, and can leave it at camp.
When I take the time to use it, I am always glad I did....when I haven't taken the time...I was sorry!!
enough said....
Joe
If I can I like to range trees/rocks as I am setting up.
Other times it is happening to fast to range.
Good luck, Robb
I can hit a bull in the eye at 50 yards all day long but thats at a target .. Rangefinders are great but elk hunting sometimes happens asap . I hear this all day long how good some guys shoot until the moment of truth .. Targets are just that targets . This is another reason why i hunt alone i took a guy out west told him to limit his shooting to 40 yards or less , he is just a avg shooter , ahole decides to shoot at a bull at 53 yards missed his mark by about 2 feet left hit the bull in the neck ahole says well at least i had the height .Many are just target shooters .
I myself rely on my hunting skills to place myself inside 30 yards for a chip shot my closet was about 4 yards .
I have one everytime I go out! Sometimes it's needed other times it's not. You'll need it the day you leave it behind! I enjoy ranging various targets & distances especially as terrain opens up. As terrain opens those 40 yard targets are really 50+ when I range them, very deceiving at times! Well worth the money & few ounces! I carry mine on my shoulder strap on my pack with a Range snap, it's inches away from my face at all times so is easy to grab.
Angle comp is needed too!
ElkNut1
Very important.
A bunch of years back I hunted Bighorns in Alberta with a very popular outfitter. My guide DID NOT have a range finder. Mine malfunctioned on the only possible shot I was to have on the trip. I turned down the shot.
My point is, if you book a hunt like this, demand that your guide also carry a range finder.
Second only to your bow in gear priorities.
Bowboy what does the rangefinder say the distance is you are behind that bull :)
Congrats great bull.
I can't believe anyone would consider elk hunting without a rangefinder. I always have a rangefinder and seldom have binoculars.
Another thing with elk is I always aim towards the top edge of the kill zone. I never shoot high, and if the bull is farther than I think (if not ranged) it allows me more room for error.
well, seems pretty darn unanimous... that doesnt happen very often here, so i think this is definitly some information i should listen too..
lets see if you can be as united on the nxt broadhead discussion ;)
over 30 years of hunting and never used one.
maybe I have better eyesight.
Maybe for Elk hunting they are important and I believe useful for deer hunting, but I believe they become a crutch and a lot of todays hunters are pretty lousy at judging distance. I still think out to 40 yards you should be able to tell the distance within a couple yards. I rarely use one here in the northeast but out west I use one quite a bit. I actually found a Simmons tilt model for like $100 on sale and it does its job very well. Shawn
I use one to practice judging distance pretty regularly but don't even carry it when hunting in the mountains, maybe if i was on a pronghorn hunt I'd feel the need.
Its like car insurance, if you don't have it your hunting ride will catch fire and be totaled, don't ask how I know.
What they all said above. Wy x2, I have a bad habit of concentrating on the animal at the shot, tend to be low on elk... high on mouflon sheep. If estimating range, looking at the animal is about the worst way to do it.
I would add they are a great tool in spot and stalk, ranging objects around a bedded animal can give you a good idea of a point, a landmark you want to get to that should be in range. The animal is at 160 and you range a boulder at 140 you have a good idea of what you have to do.
Well Ben, I'll see if I can help:
1) You've been planning for years, done your research, and have a place that you hope to get in front of a nice Bull.
2) You have at least a day driving out from & back to Pennsylvania, spending hundreds of $ on fuel & food.
3) You've spent over a thousand $ on equipment, including a new pair of boots for hiking the mountains.
4) You've been hiking up & down stairs, with a weighted pack, to get yourself in mountain shape.
Are you willing to take the chance that you'll have a shot that isn't a slam dunk, whether it's your initial shot, or a follow-up???
I'll let you decide.
Beyond useful.
Also when I've hunted mule deer in open country, I carry the same tools as elk hunting; rangefinder, GPS, Compass. When I've spotted a mule deer I want to stalk I range him, take a reading with the compass. Now i know the buck is 750 yards NNW or whatever. Then I can turn on my GPS go log a waypoint 750 yards NNW. Now as I am moving around stalking into position I always know where the target is. To do this, you want a quality rangefinder that can shoot longer readings, as one that only ranges 200 yards obviously means you'd have to start that whole system inside of 200 yards and makes it harder to make wide swings if necessary t to get out of sight or get the wind right etc. This method has been pretty bang on for me, I told a buddy about it and he used that method to kill his first mulie as well.
We did this on a nice OTC 6x6 that Cheesehead Mike killed a few years back. We were sitting in the shade after a blind calling set-up where I was the shooter. It was lunch time and we were having a Peanut Butter Bacon and Honey Tortilla and just resting a bit. During this time 15-20 minutes after we had "concluded" the blind set-up a bull bugled from his bed. We took a distance and a compass reading and then logged the waypoint. We were in no hurry, he was bedded and not going anywhere. After finishing lunch we got the right wind and headed towards our waypoint. When we were inside of 100 yards Mike crept up farther ahead. Once he was ready I started soft calling and the bull got up out of his bed, silently, and worked to Mike. He got a shot and the bull traveled around 100 yards and then did the death moan. Pretty cool scenario from start to finish.
an elk at 50yds looks like hes at 40yds IMO..Be a responsable and ethical hunter and have one at all times .. yes sometimes it gos down to fast to range,if really close ill shoot ..but most times IMO you have time to range your animal...be silly not to know hes standing BS at 51 and you guessed 40...swing and a miss at the bull you work your --- off to get within range...Its a tool and one to make you more accurate why wouldnt you use one....I knew my last target was 17yrds but I still ranged it just out of habit....all JMO good luck MikeC
APauls: couldn't agree more! Have used the rangefinder along with the GPS to get to elk on numerous occasions. Also, I use the rangefinder as binos in thicker cover as well as ranging various trees on every set up.
Indispensable!
The importance of them depends how well you can hunt and how much you have practiced.
90 percent on these sites should not be shooting elk at 50 plus yards .
It's funny because when I get in my stand and start ranging objects, I can't believe that some objects appear closer/further than you think. I will range one way and get a reading and range another object that appears to be the same distance and it's much further/closer. If I could, I would range everything before shooting. Sometimes you don't have time.
cityhunter, not sure what you mean? 90 percent of people? Are you saying me? I didn't say anything about shooting at game over 50 yds?? I don't think i even said i would shoot at one at 50 yds...
thanks for all the info... i'm looking for a decent used one...
I won't play golf without one!!!!
;^)
I always have one and never end up using it. I always end up estimating my shots, but most of my animals are very close.
To answer the OP, a Nikon Archer's Choice is relatively inexpensive and a very good angle-compensating LRF.
Additionally, if you want to shoot at animals at 50 yards, you should become proficient at shooting out to 80+ yards. You said you are good to 50 and didn't specify how far you shoot, so this may be unnecessary, but you need to (IMO) practice on targets much farther than 50 yards to be effective out that far on game.
Best of luck on your hunt.
You just never know what can happen out there, things can happen fast & you'd better be prepared for about anything at anytime! If ones say they don't care for rangefinders I'll bet they are trad guys?
Take this bull here, I contacted him from a dirt road well over a mile away 45 minutes before first light. I knew the area well & had a gut feeling where him & his cows may head to, it was one of two areas, I had a 50/50 shot at guessing right. He was aprox 600' of elevation above me. I hustled around the mountain & ahead where I'd hoped they'd come out. I had just gotten to a spot with a couple shooting lanes & ranged several identifying objects where I thought he may travel near.
Out of nowhere here comes his cows, I ranged them as they came through trees & high chaparral brush, it was 50 yards, I quickly nocked an arrow & seconds later I could see his antlers over the top of the chaparral following the trail the cows did. Just as he came into view 5-6 of the cows sensed something was wrong & started to scoot quickly in front of him & away from him. Fortunately I had that area ranged at the 50 yds & put the arrow through him! It happened quick & I was lucky to be able to put it all together in a matter of seconds!
I don't leave my rangefinder at camp! (grin)
ElkNut1
I leave mine in the truck quite often....Just not that big of a deal to me...Most of the the elk i shoot are under 30 yards, i don't find that to hard to judge.
I certainly agree that a rangefinder is not necessary in every situation. My son & I did our best one evening trying to figure out the average shot distance on the elk we've taken, it was 23 yards to our best recollection. Most of the elk do not require ranging at that distance.
We hunt a lot of steep up & down elk country & these are the type of areas too that a rangefinder can come in handy. Rangefinders with angle compensation can be a god send. Certain distances can be very deceiving & guessing distance can backfire at crunch time in those situations. Here's a perfect example of my last years elk. As he came up to the calling he appeared to be aprox 40 yards as he neared a stump that looked like he would pass by. I quickly ranged that stump well before he got to & saw it read 25 yards not 40 yards. Without the rangefinder I would have no idea what distance he was.
Just another spot it came in handy although in most situations elk are close enough it's not needed! Here's a clip of the steep angle that had me fooled! Click 'Supporting Link"
ElkNut1
Another nice time to have a LRF with angle compensation is after the shot.
You know how many yards you held for. You know where you were standing. It's easy to find where the animal lunged forward due to the tracks.
If you are unsure of where your arrow impacted, which is common when elk hunting because you often times shoot them in dense cover and don't get a good look at them running away, knowing what shot you took and how far away the animal actually was can tell you how long to give the animal.
I rarely range my animals on the hoof, but I always range my shots afterwards.
Ike, very true! A couple years back I thought I had called in & took a bull at 32 yards according to my guesstimate. (no time to use the rangefinder) He came in silent & fast. I shot & he bolted downhill. The shot felt good & I waited a few minutes to recover my arrow. No arrow?? I slowly started tracking him & no blood but his tracks were easy to follow, after near 200 yards & nothing I decided to return to the place I shot from & ranged it at 43 yards. Crap! I looked well short of that closer to the 32 yards or so I put on him & there I found my arrows fletch sticking out of the ground!
Wish I had done that very first off! (grin) Heck, I was sure I had drilled him! Not to be! (grin) I'll be doing that more often when needed!
ElkNut1
When I go elk hunting my goal is to kill an elk, not to see how good I am at range estimation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
VERY important. My experience, 1/3 of time I can range elk, 1/3 of time nearby objects prior to elk showing up 1/3 time cant.
Priceless ESPECIALLY for out west, I am always drastically underestimating range because of big open areas vs whitetail hunting.
Man is very inept at guess yardage. There's plenty of experiments you can do to prove this.
The size of the animal in contrast to the background makes it even worse.
I kill elk with an osage selfbow. Human binocular vision is the rangefinder, and brain is ballistic computer. That is the reason for human eye placement your eyes are where they are Last year was at 35 yards STEEPLY uphill. 100 yard recovery, mainly tumbling......If you have to think about the yardage you will be wrong. Range finding requires the sub-conscious mind. The conscious mind can only focus on one thing at a time. Range finding is a multi-task. The sub conscious mind is for these tasks. To train your subconscious mind just get a judo/type tip that shoots like your broadheads, and trek around the woods/hunting area shooting at random objects at random distance. Just pic a leaf and hit it, quickly. Do not shoot two arrows at the same target from the same spot. Quick, under hunting conditions, all distances. This will make you fast money on hunting shots. Many folks call it "stump shooting". Fast and deadly, automatic.
X3 what Mike just said. By the time an animal gets in longbow range for me, there isn't time for anything but total concentration on making the shot.
I could be snarky and say that if you need a rangefinder to make a shot with the equipment you have, it might be too far. But I won't.
I think that when the F&G departments clamp down on bowhunting technology, rangefinders will be the first to go. Releases second.
I think that when the F&G departments clamp down on bowhunting technology, rangefinders will be the first to go. Releases second.
Highly highly unlikely b/c even w/ all those gadgets (and more) bow hunters account for a fraction of harvested game compared to gun hunters.
Sounds like you're an anit-wheelie bowman????
I use a rangefinder as much as possible when hunting. To me a rangefinder is very important
Critical for practice.
Important when setting up a stand or calling situation.
Sometimes useful at the actual shot.
And they may find "trouble" in your eyes. I didn't realize how bad my left cataract was last year until a friend and I played the "How far is that tree"-game. I was off by 100 yards, but it was because I was using, essentially, monocular vision.
I know some of you guys are old enough to get cataracts. Heck, I'm only 48. If it happens, the range-finding abilities that you had as a youngster won't be there!
get one. It is important to have
I'm not anti wheels, just anti exceeding limits. I've wasted at least four days of elk hunting the last two years looking for wounded elk after the shooter claimed "I ranged him at 65-70-75 yards " and of course of course hit them in the head-neck-guts. And they blamed the elk, cause it moved.
Crutches are for people who have a disability.
I carry one and typically range a couple of objects on the edge of my effective range when we set up on a bull. This shows me my limit. I have yet to use it on an animal because all of my shots have been 25 yds or less.
My partner on the other hand had a bull hang up in a meadow that I couldn't coax any further. He had time to range it and deliver a strike at 52 yards. After the shot we were waiting for the bull to expire and he told me that he had guessed it at 40yds prior to ranging him. There is a little bit of difference coming from mid west whitetail to elk.
Every time I'm closing on an elk there is usually something physically challenging about the setup (steep uphill, downhill, sidehill, etc). Some guys get them inside 20, but my experience is they are always 30+. At that range, a 5 yard error can be the difference between a perfect shot and a bad one and a long and fruitless track job. Yea there may be times when you get the proverbial chip shot and have to do it fast. For a more 'normal' scenario, having the range dialed is one less thing to worry about. BELIEVE ME when you get in close on an adult elk you will not be mentally back at the 3D range.
That being said, there's times when rangefinder up and down and bow up and drawing back is too much movement. Don't have a good answer for that except maybe a pal whispering range to you.
MarkU ... and the problem is not the rangefinder, or the wheels, or the crutches.
I always try to have mine with me. Silly not too. Dont always use it. But when I need it its there, and when I have the time to use it (which I cant think of a time I havent had time) its there to use. Doesnt mean I'm gonna take crazy long shots, nor does it mean I cant judge yardage past 30. For the low cost anymore, they are worth having.
A very easy exercise is to walk around in the woods, uphill, downhill, and flat, and just pick out landmarks: Rocks, trees, and if you come across them, animals. Then guess the range. Then use the LRF.
You'll find out really quick how good you are at it. You'll also learn and get better at ranging without the LRF.
Personally, I've learned that I'm consistently accurate out to 30 yards, but after 30, I consistently under-guess by 10 yards. So I don't think about it. I make my guess. If it's over 30, I add 10. If it's under 30, I assume I'm right. It's never failed me.
This stuff really doesn't take more than a couple Saturday afternoons. You can even do it with the kids in tow. Just go out and practice.
I look at it this way - I've never said "wish I left my rangefinder at home". Better to have it and not need it than the other way. Too much time, energy and money invested to let something so simple mess up your hunt. If you go out and miss an elk due to yardage miscalculation, you'll be buying one before your next trip. Just get one now and save yourself the grief.
There are things you can control in a hunt and things you cannot control. Why place one of the things which you can control into the other category?
--Mitch
