5 steps to Perfect Clover - Discuss Here
Whitetail Deer
Pat, You are spot on with you planting scheme. I will add a couple of points. First, it's important one knows the best planting date(s) for their locale and sequence your steps accordingly. I always apply lime 4 months ahead of planting as clover likes a near neutral soil (pH 6.5+). Second, disc plots at least two weeks ahead of planting and let the soil settle either with rain or gravity. Fluffy soil is a big no-no for clover. I will sometimes pack the plot before seeding and again after seeding just to insure the seed bed is firm. Combating weeds can be done with herbicide but getting a uniform coverage of clover is the best weed deterrent.
Hey Sparky: Couple of questions:
1.Where are you getting free soil tests?
2. Are you mowing before spraying and if so, how long do you normally wait after mowing to spray? We have a big clover field that got away from us this year. We couldn't get it sprayed due to the weather and lack of time trying to get the beans and corn in. Now I have grass that is a foot high. I am going to mow and then spray.
This is a great summary Pat, thanks for posting. I've gathered a lot of information on clover plots over the years but this puts it all in one useful place.
Great info Pat!
BTW I've had glyphosate that was frozen and it worked great.
Is the 2-4db comparable in price to 2-4d or roundup?
I have a Durana Clover plot that was planted 2 falls ago that I let get away from me last summer but after mowing in late August it was looking better by the end October but you can still see the dead weed stems sticking up out of the clover.
Then another picture from this May after some TLC and mowing again, very few weeds and a nice thick stand of clover. I followed almost to the letter the process you described except the spring spraying as it didn't seem to need it.
Pat, two questions:
1. Approximately how many gallons of solution are you spraying per acre?
2. Why spray 2,4DB and Clethodim separately in May? Can't they be mixed in the tank?
Good feature Pat. I am down to one really good clover plot on my 217 ac. place, because I didn't get the " fluffy " done. The ground was so dry last year on two new plots that I could never get the clods out of the plot. Surprisingly though, I was mowing this morning and looked closely at one of them and it's not doing too bad. I sprayed and mowed it earlier this year and figured I was wasting my time and money, but now I'm not so sure. It's twice as thick as it was just a month ago, so I think by next spring it will be ok.
This plot pictured was done exactly like you laid out in your program ( except for the effing pig rooting in one end ).
Do you think it hurts anything to spray the clethodem right after you have sprayed the 2,4DB, or do you think it would be better to wait a few days or more between the 2 separate applications?
One thing to add about tank mixing, if you guys are using hard water, you should be using AMS in the water. Prevailing view is that the AMS should be mixed with the water and left to sit for an hour before adding gly. Google for chemical explanation. The AMS comes in granular form or liquid form. We use the liquid form to avoid any chances of undissolved grains from clogging our nozzles.
FOG- on another note, be on the lookout in your mail for a box. I boxed up and mailed a bucket full of dirt samples out to you this morning. Figured you could get the good University of Connecticut to perform some more free soil tests. Now that the FIG is getting into foodplotting, I think that he will be sending you a bucket full of dirt as well.. ;-)
When trying to determine which pesticide is the most cost-efficient to use, you need to consider ounces per application in addition to cost per ounce of product. Some of the less expensive herbicides, like 2,4-D, require a much larger volume to be used for effective weed control which negates some of the savings for the lower price per gallon.
Where can one find some 24DB?
I am amazed at what some of you won't spend and go through to hunt deer. Good for ya but I just don't think it would be my cup of tea.
njbuck, Keystone Pest Solutions has what you need online, but many farm or garden stores could probably order it for you.
JusPassin, my family thinks along the same line. But they don't give me any real static over it. Last year I spent over $600 on seed, fertilizer, and chemicals and shot one doe that I gave to my brother that doesn't hunt. So what did I do this year? Buy better equipment to plant better crops. It's a joy of life.
the more i cut it the thicker it gets its a weed !!
Many of us get a lot of enjoyment putting in food plots and watching them feed the deer, and other animals, that reside on our property. Some guys spend big bucks on a tricked out bass boat, much to the amusement of the guy in the wooden rowboat who had no trouble catching fish.
I am curious, I watch the deer here clear 6 foot fences without a stumble. How does a little 32" electric keep them out?
My neighbor runs cattle and uses about the same setup you guys are talking about. The deer aren't bothered by it at all and go in and out freely.
A great thread that has confirmed some of what I've been doing right and some of what I need to change!
Thanks!
Mark
Pat nailed it ! When I was working, there was no better therapy than to get on my tractor, backhoe, or dozer, and just do something with no one else around. No customers bitching, no hands whining, and no schedule to keep but my own. Now that I'm retired, I spend way more time on food plots for the reasons Pat stated above. I hope I'm able to do it until I croak !
JusPassin- The fence they use on deer is a double row of fences spaced apart. Deer can't jump a double fence as it appears 3-D to them as I understand it.
Pat & drycreek X2.
Most of the deer that I kill are in bedding areas, not on the plots. That's not the main reason that I plant them. I would hate to sit down & figure how much I spend on food plots & deer hunting! I joke to my friends that I'm going to quit deer hunting & take up stock car racing! It might be cheaper!
From my understanding, the double row of fencing affects their depth perception. All I know, it works like a charm!
So from someone on the West Coast that doesn't get to do this, a question...
Is the growth strictly from rain and such and no irrigation?
Ike,
All of mine is dry land farming, not irrigation.... Except about 3 years ago when I dragged about 700' of hose to a sugar beet plot that sat in dry dirt for 3 weeks! Some idiots will do almost anything;>)
I would guess that almost all of the food plots guys are dry land as well.
Lol...That was pretty good T! I kind of thought it was rain only, didn't know if it was feasible or even possible to irrigate some of them...Whatever it is, they sure look nice! Thanks!
A wise man I know has always said "you can't put a price on fun." I personally like fooling around with plots and it has paid off in hunting that I never would have dreamed possible. My most recent plot was clover planted on thatch very early this spring. I thought it was going to wind up as nothing but a weed patch, until yesterday. I mowed it and I could hardly believe all the nice clover coming up in the shade of all the weeds. I cant wait to see how it progresses. I'm not out much if it doesn't produce this year, but I'm guessing it will.
I have read that clover goes "dormant" what does this mean?
After having the initial success with the clover plot I put in behind my house this spring, I want to add to it and I can easily run a hose to where the plot would be to water it every day if need be. With this in mind, could I plant the seed now or should I still wait for the fall to plant?
Ike, I'm able to irrigate most of my plots on the property that I own, but haven't had to much. Water well water just keeps them alive in a severe drought like we had in 2011. Rainwater does so much more for them IMO.
njbuck, clover will go dormant in a hot, dry summer and during the coldest part of the winter here in East Texas. I can't speak for other locals, but I'm sure it does in winter almost everywhere. We plant clover in the fall down south. It spends the first 6/12 months putting down roots and getting established. It's really a second year crop and as long as you can maintain it after that.
My approach is simple. Frost seed is my preferred means as you get ahead of the weeds. If you don't frost seed then...
Buy high germ count/low weed seed clover blends. I include a natural growth promoter which helps it really snap out of the ground and get roots under it.
Here is a picture of one of my clover plots. This one is 4 yrs. old. 1) I frost seed every March. 2) I lime and fertilize in late April/Early May 3) Sprayed with Cleth & 2-4 DB in late May 4) Mowed down to 6 inches in Mid-June 5) Will probably mow again in Sept if needed.
This is a picture of my 2nd clover plot which is in it's 2nd year. In the fall of 2014 I started by spraying and killing everything in the plot area. The following March (2015) I followed the same as above. Works Great and actually very little work.
Can't argue with results. Great looking plots. However, a month ago while speaking at a dinner Dr. Grant Woods says that mowing clover plots is not necessary and results in more failed plots than any other reason. Guess the old saying about opinions and a*#holes applies. I think that the high temperatures and humidity in the southern states has a big affect.
Anyone who says not to mow clovers doesn't understand nutrition. Any forages that mature lose palatability and nutrition. Every day past late vegetation, alfalfas lose 1-5 points of rfv and clovers 1-2 points.
Deer are selective graziers. They will not eat "straw" but eat the top half of palatable forages. Another issue is when you have rank forages, deer and animals will trample down and create a mushy mess if they are trying to pick and sort to find palatable feed stuffs.
Alfalfa will drop from 25% protein 1.3-1.5% calcium and .35% phosphrous and .68 Nel at early vegetation to 16% protein, 1.1% calcium, .25% phosphorous and .58 nel within 3 weeks.
Clovers will drop from 25% rude protein, 1.4% calium, .35% phosphorous and .68 nel to 17% crude protein, 1.2% calcium, .30 phosphorous, .60 nel ithin 3 weeks.
I conducted research with the University of Wisconsin and the first discovery farm years back and i did clipper cut samples every week for a whole grazing season.
Stuff like this drives me wild as a nutritionist and when i discuss this with other consultants and nutritionists they agree that the wildlife world is so far behind the rest of the nutrition world.
CLIP....CLIP.....CLIP UNLESS you just want ground cover. Those who say not to clip either are planting poor growing forages, have poor soil fertility or don't know what they are talking about...no 1 in the grazing world would ever make such comments!!
Here is a picture of 35 day growth of Mass Builder. This is what happens when you use growth promoters and high germ count seed.
I know this is a thread about establishing a great clover plot but would like to add.... IMO good clover plots are the foundation of a good food plot plan. They do not provide food year round but if done right they do provide a lot of forage at key times of the year. A really good half acre clover plot can feed a lot of deer. I will post a picture of my clover plot which is butted up against my sanctuary and has been a great producer for me. I used to be all about hunting the rut but have shot a 4 year old buck on the exact same day (first Sunday in October)out of the exact same stand for 3 straight years. No influence of the rut and all of these deer were in the plot an hour before dark head down and feeding. SUMMARY: get yourself a sanctuary and a good clover plot and a way to get in and out of the stand without the deer knowing you were there. It is a really good way to kill a big buck. MikeTN
Another mid October buck a juvenile hunter killed on the clover plot. Again...... Out in the plot 45 minutes before dark
Man, they sure look good...You can tell the amount of work you guys put in to them and the outcome is pretty awesome!
Is it too late to spray with Clethodim or 2;4DB?
So where are the 5-steps??
Click on "articles" up top, then scroll down and you will find it.
I used a landscape rake on half of it and then used a cultipacker on the whole thing. I can't say the landscape rake helped much as far as coming up better but smoother to mow that part. Free soil tests in Arkansas so I started with 4.5ph, now 6.8ph
I used a landscape rake on half of it and then used a cultipacker on the whole thing. I can't say the landscape rake helped much as far as coming up better but smoother to mow that part. Free soil tests in Arkansas so I started with 4.5ph, now 6.8ph
Durana Clover in Arkansas. This was woods just a few months prior to pic. I spread lime and fertalizer after clearing it with dozer. I sure picked up a lot of rocks. I'm trying to post more pics.
I would like to say I agree that when clover gets the white tops on it I like to cut it because the deer don't like it as well. I'm 100 percent right on this. I don't know any percentage but when it is all green you can't beat them out of it. The best thing I read that I consider good advice on clover maintenance is to know when not to mow for instance if you have a bad drought coming. I like to mow right before a good rain. The first year this plot never went dormant and the second year it got knocked back for about 2 weeks but not dormant. This year I'd day it was dormant for maybe a week. Clover can go dormant for months and be ok.
Then another picture from this May after some TLC and mowing again, very few weeds and a nice thick stand of clover. I followed almost to the letter the process you described except the spring spraying as it didn't seem to need it. 
