Distance and Pass Through's
Equipment
So this may come off as a stupid question, but today at work I got to thinking.
How many pounds need to be drawn back to get a complete pass through on a whitetail deer at 50yds?
I have never shot a deer/at a deer past 40. However after a lot of practice this spring and continuing through the summer I feel pretty confident I could shoot one out to 50. I'm not sure how comfortable I am at shooting at a live animal at that distance compared to a target. I realize not all shots are pass throughs even at close distance. Just curious as to your thoughts on it all and how many people shoot animals out to 50. The last thing I want to do is wound an animal and not find it.
I am shooting a Bowtech Guardian 28" draw and 63lb draw
Jason, you have plenty of zip to pass through a whitetail at 50 yards. Assuming you have a well tuned bow shooting a sharp head and you hit the animal in the right spot. There's a lot of variables here....
I was pretty confident my set up could do it, the bow is well tuned and I shoot slick trick broadheads.
One of my biggest concerns other than the pass through was at that distance I feel like the deer would have a good opportunity to jump the string
I had a pass thru on my deer this year. 47 yard shot 70lb 29inch Elite Z28, Beman 340's with a Magnus 100g Stinger. The arrow was laying on the ground 12 yards past where the deer was standing when I shot him.
A very low energy arrow can easily get a passthru with a very efficient 2 blade head
A high energy arrow could have a hard time getting a passthru with a large dia mech head
If you are worried about penetration bump up your arrow weight a little...and of course BH tune your bow....though arrow weight isn't usually a big factor with thin skinned deer.
Basically, an arrow comes down with as much on it as it had when it went up, and The Longebowes of Yore were killing armored men at a couple hundred yards way back when....
So as long as you don't hobble your bow with too much fletching or too little mass on your arrow and provided you don't scrub off too much speed getting the arrow settled in flight....
Probably a lot of shooters should get better penetration at long range just because their arrow is completely settled with all of its mass centered behind the broadhead. Though that in no way means that I would advocate a mech head. Any time you push the envelope in one direction, you owe it to yourself to throw a little slack in another...
But that doesn't make it a good idea to take really long shots on big game. I've got nothing against shots between 50 and 100 yards, but if I were planning to be done hunting at 50 yards, I'd carry my .54 Roundballer. And if I were planning to close the deal at 100, I'd grab one of my centerfires and dial in my scope. Just my own priorities, based on what I know that I can do with each method.
Not that it can't be done; just not sure that I really think that I have to do it.
Shot a large bull moose last year at 70 yards took out ribs, complete pass through couldn't even find the arrow. That's out of a 70 pound bowtech rpm, 28" draw, 485 gr fmj tipped with a exodus swept.
My last bull elk,64 yards, 60 lb Martin slayer extreme, beman 340's,four bladed muzzies.Pretty standard equipment. Complete pass through and had to dig the broadhead out of a log.
With modern bows being very quiet, Deer are much more apt to jump the string at 15-20 yards versus 30 and beyond. I've killed a bunch with a compound from the 80's up to a half decade ago. They have come a long way in development. As they have progressed and become a better tool, they have become much quieter versus the speed craze bows of the 90's and early 2000's. So, the string noise a deer hears at longer distances, is not nearly as alarming. So, the reaction you see from them most times at longer distance is due to the arrow noise and not reaction to the bow string.
Bottom line is at all but literal karate range, the string noise reaches the animal so much quicker than the arrow. Leaving the deer plenty of time to simply not be there when the arrow gets there. On the fastest of setups it is 4 times faster at the bow. That ratio increases with every inch the arrow travels to the target. So, you must have a quiet bow.
It is very circumstance dependent but, It has been my personal experience that deer in the 18-20 yard range are very apt to react to the bow noise from a compound and literally drop totally out of the way or, low enough to cause a muscle wound through the back straps. And, they have PLENTY of time to do it. While deer at longer distances simply stand for it.
That range changes to 10-15 for a trad bow. Regardless of most trad bowhunters assertions, many times a stick bow is louder than the new compounds. Add in their much slower speed and super close deer of any temperament posses a real threat to simply not be there when the arrow gets there.
So, don't sweat the longer shots in regards to a deer's reaction unless the deer is nervous. If you do your part, the deer will die if your bow is quiet and your arrows aren't ridiculously loud.
Get your setup tuned and you are going to shoot completely through 95% of the deer you shoot at that range. God Bless
I agree with WV.
I don't like the 26-40 yard range for my setup.
It's 25 and under or 45-60 (but only on unsuspecting animals). I don't like shots over 45 because animals move randomly, but I will take them under the right circumstances and I'm comfortable saying I've never wounded and not retrieved an animal over 25 yards (but mostly because I've missed entirely due to the animal's movement and I've learned from misses and not woundings).
I aim low and tight to the shoulder on anything from 18-25.
With my "slow" compound, the shot I want is 8-18 yards and is where most of my kills have been.
+2 WV Mountaineer imo. Having said that, longer shots certainly create the possibility of natural movement of the animal being an issue.
It's not the poundage of the bow that counts but the energy/efficiency of the arrow in flight.
a heavy arrow with a sharp cut on contact BH shot out of a well tuned bow is the way to go. A longer draw length will deliver more energy too.
is there any determining factors that make one arrow louder than another?
I am with Idyl. My "slow" compound kills most of my deer anywhere from 5-20 yards. (Out of my 50+ deer, I would guess average kill distance is 14 yards)
Once the broadhead exits body cavity, any extra energy is a waste in my opinion. I would rather have a larger cutting swath and deliver that energy to kill, vs sending that energy 8" into the dirt after it passes through.
8" into the dirt ensures better penetration on less than ideal hits. Things like broad head vents and fletchings stiffness and size effect arrow noise. Shoot unvented VPA's and as small a fletching as you can get by with. My fletchings are however a bit on the stiff side because I like their durability.
The fletchings and broad head are the determine factors in arrow noise. God Bless men
Take it to the bank, past 50 yds reaction from an animal to bow/string noise is reduced significantly. I have shot numerous animals past 50 and have had them literally stand there and watch as the arrow flew in and smacked them. This includes alert animals that were aware something was going on. (PM me and I'll give you detailed case examples) I think 30-45 is the red zone as I have had many "string jumpers" at that range, but almost none past 50.
(The doe on this video link was 57 yards and she was alert)
I would not hesitate to shoot a whitetail deer at 50 with your setup.
"The last thing I want to do is wound an animal and not find it."
If you really feel this way then you would not be shooting 50 yards at something. You have already admitted you don't feel comfortable shooting that distance at a live animal.
Idyll said they could move randomly but he'll take it under the right circumstances. Ollie I assume that means if they are head down eating or something similar he's comfortable with it. Western hunters are different from eastern hunters or even this from the Midwest. When you hunt wide open, big country longer shots become more common place. I bowhunt knee high grass for whitetails where there isn't a tree for a mile and very little break in terrain. It's not always realistic to get to 18 yards. I bet there's been more animals missed/wounded under 20 than past 50. If your going to shoot that far you have to know what your bow is doing. A lot more careless shots at 20 than 50. To each his own.
I have seen very few guys on the range and at 3D shoots that I think should ever consider shooting at a deer at 50 yards. That being said if you are proficient enough to do it there is no reason not to. As far as your set up it should be fine. I shoot 61# and had no problem with a pass thru on tow caribou at 52 and 48 yards. One was shot with a Rocket Steeklhead and the other a Slick trick.
Ollie, distance isn't the reason for hesitation. If I continue to practice and become proficient at 50 yards I am more than confident in myself to take the shot. However, my main concern with the distance of the shot would be the animal moving/jumping the string in the time it takes my arrow to reach its destination.
"However, my main concern with the distance of the shot would be the animal moving/jumping the string in the time it takes my arrow to reach its destination."
You are making a case for not taking the shot. 3-D targets don't move and you have unlimited time to get your shot off. Not so with live animals.
