I will like to start shooting co ,instinctively . So please if you have a time to help me I will appreciate that.
So I have couple questions
1. How much long co should be ( minimum ) ? 2. Can I shoot 3 under (tab) ? 3. Which arrow rest to buy? 4 . feel free to give me advice
Thanks in advance for your time to help Milan
That being said if you want to shoot a compound with fingers you need one as long as possible
I will first start that I don't shoot what I would consider "instinctive". I have slowly migrated from gap shooting to string walking.
1- I shoot longest A-A bows I can find. Once I find one, I stick with them a long time. My previous bow was a Hoyt Aspen w/E-wheels. Currently shoot a Hoyt Vantage with XT3000 limbs and Cam 1/2 wheels (70%) and I love it. First bow with anything other than wheels and it is still a sweet finger shooter. Well over 40" A2A.
2-Yes. That is how I shoot. I like the arrow closer to my eye so I can look down the arrow and see my intended target. (I use an Angel Tab)
3- Choices are limited. I stick with rests that supply side pressure. If you can find a NAP center rest, they will work. I have had best luck with Norris Springy. (A simple rest that just works). I wanted more adjustability, so I am currently shooting AAE Free Flite Elite and a plunger w/Teflon tip.
Advice- It takes work but it is very enjoyable. Much like traditional, you need to shoot often to stay sharp or sharpen your skills. Don't take my equipment list as absolute. It takes some experimenting. I have plenty of equipment that I no longer use (Including aluminum arrows) I can't tell you how many sizes of arrows I have collecting dust.
Enjoy the flight of the arrow!
Like Brian, I've been shooting barebow (instinctive) my entire life...probably 50 years collectively.
What works for me: A minimum ATA of 36 inches.
two fingers (tab) split
Whisker Biscuit (as Brian mentioned "side pressure").
Three under should be just fine, I just find with the shorter ATA bows that two fingers is more accurate.
Echoing Brian once again...be prepared to shoot a lot to be effective! Focus and follow through are the two key elements IMHO.
Best of Luck, Jeff
What you think about http://www.bowhunterssuperstore.com/bowtech-ultrarest-black-right-hand-p-1888034.html
I shoot my stick bows instinctive and compound with sights.
Just my opinion
There are some advantages to shooting instinctive with a compound and a tab. Especially if you shoot a heavier arrow and forget about the speed craze.
An arrow with some mass flung out of a good compound is rather startling when it comes to penetration. A cow elk was spooked by a buddy as I released once. I was using a 2219 shaft tipped with a bear razorhead. The arrow blew clear through the cow's skull.
I don't see a problem with doing what you want. Like a couple have posted...length is an issue. The rests are completely different than what I used as well.
I shot a Martin Lynx dual-cam using fingers and no sights for 4-5 years (about 30 years ago), but the modern equipment has come a long way since then... Moving steadily AWAY from "old-school" techniques all the while...
Anyway, since I don't know what you want, I won't try to give you any advice other than a big NO vote on the biscuit rest, which (unless they now make them completely open on top) will only prevent you from aiming down your arrow.... Which is the ONLY way (IMHO) to learn how to shoot without sights.
Anyway... Tell us what you want to end up with, and we can tell you what to get rid of (or keep) to get you there... No sense worrying about ATA length or % let-off if you are perfectly happy to stick with a release....
I don't like gadgets , so I will like to shoot compound same way. Same arrow. Asked for that Qad rest because Fitzgerald using on his bow ....and they use really short co.
Shooting truly instinctive has nothing to do with aiming down your arrow. It's like throwing a rock, you look at where you want the rock to hit, and you instinctively adjust for the drop according to the distance to the target. My focus never leaves the spot.
Like any other method, consistency is key.
It's actually a very natural process...BUT you do have to shoot a lot to be proficient at it. So maybe harder to learn, unless you are a "natural".
Best of Luck, Jeff
Beg to differ: if you aim down your arrow on every shot, you engrain a precise and consistent anchor, and you train your bow hand to point exactly where you want the arrow to go. With precise repetition, the alignment becomes executable without conscious effort because you have built out the neuromuscular circuit that makes putting your arrow into precise alignment with your eyeball into a permanent feature of your anatomy. NOW you can shoot "instinctively" and still hit what you're looking at. That's doubtless not the way you learned, and it's not the way I learned, but it's the way that modern neuroscience says that humans learn best. And I've been a vastly superior archer since I started practicing Smarter.
You can build out the circuit Slow and Sloppy, too, but it takes a lot longer and produces an inferior result.
End of hijack
Perun -
If you want to shoot a compound as much like your longbow as possible, then change only what you must... If you shoot with a tab, keep using a tab. If you shoot three-under, shoot three-under. Just as with aiming, the more you practice doing everything in precisely the same way, the better your results will be.
Hoyt/Reflex continued to produce a hunting bow specifically for finger-shooters long after the rest of the industry gave up on them... They had to, because Chuck Adams was their spokesman and (to his credit) he wasn't going to change his shooting style. I don't think the cams/eccentrics were particularly aggressive, though, because Speed was not their top priority. And there used to be top-end target bows set up for finger-shooting, also... Pretty sure they competed in their own class at one point. Any of those bows should serve your purpose.
So Fitzgerald team using Qad rest or similar and very short bow . Everyone else recommend longer bow.
In some other topic I find that short bow is not a problem . So I need facts from field
I'm thinking to buy Darton DS 4800
Suit yourself... But I sure wish I could GET BACK all the time and energy that I wasted by not checking to make sure I was going to hit my intended target before loosing the arrow.
Lighted sight pins wouldn't be on the market if light didn't play a role.
Sounds like you already have a plan. Maybe you don't need any site to validate it for you?
If you have consistent form...you have a consistent sight picture. The Whisker Biscuit completely obscures the tip of my arrow, yet I manage to easily drop the arrow in the spot. Your brain and body work together to put that arrow where it belongs. Do you "sight down your arm" before throwing a rock at something?
I think some of you have a distorted view of "Instinctive Shooting"...maybe this will make it clearer:
A sight picture includes all your peripherals as well. When a man tells me he can instinctively shoot in pitch black I will fall for the purist idea of instinctive.
But this thread is to be debate free and I will honor it.
All he was talking about was grooving the hand-eye coordination that is required to hit a mark without making a deliberate reference to your arrow.... But like the rest of the Instinctive Kool-Aid Winos, he is preaching the jacked-up notion that you should shingle the roof before the foundation is poured. Damn straight it takes years of practice and constant maintenance.... If you do it that way.
But with what we now know about how neuro-motor circuits are grown out, attempting it as he described requires an act of either deliberate ignorance or willful stupidity... WHY would you choose to build out your hand-eye coordination using a method which takes much longer and produces an inferior outcome??
And FWIW, in a "pitch black" shooting contest between a good gapper and an "instinctive" purist.... My money's on the Gapper
When shooting a bow without sights be it Long Bow, Re-curve, or Compound, if you aimed down the shaft it was like looking down the barrel of a rifle/shotgun with- out a forward sight pin.
This method of aim was call the "Apache Method" of shooting a bow. Highly effective out to about 30-35 yards. *
If you used the tip of the arrow for aim reference it is "Gap Shooting". Accuracy depends on the "gapper" :} *
String walking is used for shooting longer distance. Accuracy depends on the person "Walking The String" :} *
If you shoot true "Instinctive" then you (obviously) need the reference of your arm, and bow, when looking at target. This method (if truly instinctive) requires you to concentrate solely on a single spot. Accuracy depends on the "instinct" of the shooter. :}
* = non instinctive shooting.
I have found that most people who profess to shoot instinctive use some point of reference or aim.
A truly instinctive shooter is few and far between.
However with practice, good form and a good release all methods can be very proficient.
If I am incorrect in my recollection or knowledge please advise.
If at all buc. True I am not looking specifically at my arrow but it is a reference that my subconscious uses to align me to the world and yes to the target.
I don't gap shoot because I don't like to guess yardages or even worry about it. As my subconscious, over time, has imprinted the arc so then it also references the relationships to other objects.
It takes huge dedication and discipline. This is why compounds are not in the Olympics.
When I shot a compound, bare bow, no sight or peep, the principles remained the same. It just transferred over from recurves when I made that switch.
About 15 years ago I made the "mistake" of picking up a custom traditional bow. The game was over. Went back to recurves and never looked back I'm good to around 40 yards now. More than enough for virtually any feasible shot at an elk or moose.
Olympic archers use sights.
not sure what the discipline needed to instinctively shoot has to do with using sights on recurves vs. compounds in competition
Take your peep sight off. Having range sites to dial in the differences is distance is not the same.
There's no let off in recurves. This is VERY DIFFERENT and form plays the major roll.
Nothing against compounds in the least. I've shot the bare bow to hunt with. The longer ones are great!!!
Glad you guys were successful in discrediting the OP's method of shooting (and mine)...and I'm sure he really appreciated you guys trying to get him to "re-learn".
Bowsite...we're here to help! :/
If you have certainty elkmtngear, why would you care what others think?
But it sure shortens up the learning curve... and you WILL come out with a better result.
Greenmountain, you should keep that on the "down low"...some folks around here like to put "instinctive" in quotes.
Maybe it's threatening to them to think that some of us actually fill our freezers this way...
Best of Luck, Jeff
GF, Can you walk me through the process of gap shooting in pitch black? Thanks.
Not sure if the proper response to that is "Exactly my point" or "Who said anything about gap-shooting IN THE DARK??"
The point is, arrows go where you point them. So a good gapper checks his anchor and his bow-hand hold on Every Single Shot to ensure that the entire length of his arrow is lined up with the mark. Not just "close", but Precisely.
And JM-backed-up-by-a-load-of-scientific-research-O, by the time a gapper gets to be quite good, his body is virtually incapable of doing it Wrong. Those final checks? Yeah, they matter in competition, but they're just improving on a solid 8 to yield a 10 or 12.
So you put that guy in pitch black and no, he can't pick out his gap as he usually does, but IT DOESNT MATTER. Both he and the Hole Burner have to rely 100% on "muscle memory", and the Gapper has built out his neuromuscular circuit much more carefully than the Hole Burner ever even thought about.
Old Coach says: "Practice does not make Perfect. PERFECT Practice makes Perfect." And the Gapper practices more Perfectly.
TRUE, if the Gapper can't beat the Hole Burner with the lights on, he won't beat him in the dark.... And the Gapper can't win if he gets in his own way. But if he (or she!) can just Feel It, don't bet against him.
All ya gotta do is cant it at about 45 degrees, sight right on down the top tube, and....
Same principle: the projectile will travel on the same line along which it was originally pushed (or pulled, if you prefer).
And if you wanna hit your target, you may as well check to see where it's pointed before you let loose.
Just sayin'...
But you do it right often enough and you get to where you don't even have to check anymore. Gawd Forbid you should pay attention and save yourself ten years of having no clue why you can't hit a damn thing...
This whole business is exactly what we went through 30 years ago with fly-fishing, when there were Grumpy Old Men at every bend in the river, all cranked out of shape because Them Damn Kids had the Unmitigated Audacity to read up on their Bug Science, learn the life cycles, watch some instructional videos and actually learn how to CATCH FISH instead of just standing there pointlessly flailing the water for 20 years.
It's really pretty sad to see people getting frustrated and either settling for Crap accuracy or just quitting altogether because they're struggling needlessly to learn something that's just not that hard if you go about it Smart.
Either way, the idea is that you end up looking at a target and knowing you've drilled it even before you release. Just a question of how much time you want to waste getting there....
