High End Bows. Worth the Cost?
Equipment
Given the problem I just had with my primary bow, I started thinking about getting a new bow if that bow needed major surgery. Fortunately, it did not.
Yet I'm still curious about these 330 fps carbon fiber bows. Are they worth the $1,400 - $1,500 base price?
Do any of you guys have any experience with these new type of bows? Is so, what are your thoughts and recommendations?
I need a new bow like I need a hole in my head, but bows are like firearms. If you know how many you have, you don't have enough.
Thanks!
Kyle
Nope, I bought a carbon matrix when they first came out. Decked it out and had $1500 into it. I had never owned a Hoyt before. I hated it, heavy and I just could not shoot it well. I bought a left over Mathews ZXT for $700 and set it up and shot it awesome. I believe it is not about the bow so much as how it fits the archer and even todays low end bows can out shoot most of us. I would look for a bow that fits you well and is quiet at the shot regardless of price. Shawn
Thanks, Shawn.
That's more or less my thinking as well.
If you've got a bow that center-punches whatever you shoot at, who cares how 'hot' it is or what it costs?
deerman406...Just an "FYI". Every year model of the Carbon Matrix from 2010 to 2013 weighed the same: 3.8 lbs. (pretty "light" by bow standards) Your Mathews ZXT: 4.2 lbs. So, your Mathews bare was heavier than that "heavy" Hoyt.
But you are right about finding a bow that fits.
As far as the carbon bows, I've owned quite a few of them and usually end up going back to them, so for me "yes" they are worth it. Only you Kyle can go shoot one and see if it is "worth it" to you.
I'm currently shooting a Hoyt Defiant and a Hoyt Carbon Defiant. I like the carbon one better, but is it $400 better? That is in the eyes of the owner.
If you want a carbon bow you will pay the price, if not you can subtract $4-500. Will a carbon shoot better, not necessarily. More the Indian then the bow dictates how well it shoots.
cheap bows will out shoot the best of aims. That's a given fact.
No, I don't have one nor will I ever own one that expensive. I've always heard that fools will part with their money. That would apply to me if I ever were to pay that much for a bow. We aren't talking bedded actions, barrels, lapped rings, stocks fitted to the shooter, etc... It's a stock bow
God Bless
Yeah they are worth it assuming you know how to set one up and have good form and release. Most people aren't shooting the right length, weight, form, or bad tune, and are quick to blame a make/model rather than seek knowledge about such things.
I used to shoot cheap bows that I would find in the bargain cave. They ranged from $60 to $200 and I shot deer and turkeys with them. Got a call from a family member 2 years ago wanting to get rid of a $1200 Mathews fully equipped for $500. I jumped on the chance. Yes, the expensive bow outshoots the old Browning and Parkers. Yes, it made me a better shot. Just like my sporting clays score. I used to shoot a $1000 Browning Gold and my scores were averaging in the 70's. I bought a $3000 Beretta o/u and immediately noticed it patterned better, fit better, and my last competition score was 89/100. You get what you pay for any more.
I like my top shelf bows, don't pay full price for them, shop around or buy used
New in box 2015 Hoyt carbon spyder bows on eBay for 8-900 bucks. It's a lot but it ain't 1500.00
I've shot from lower end price models to the glamour and awe of the "mighty" carbon. I prefer a carbon bow.
Is it worth $1500? To me, yes, because I have one. Does it shoot nice? Yep. Does it shoot better? Nope.
Any bow will shoot good if it is set up correctly for you. The only thing that varies is cam design (and draw cycle). I think "curb appeal" sells most bows anyway.
I don't think of bows as I think of guns. I have dozens of guns, rifles, pistols, and shotguns. Many of them haven't been out of the safe in a while. I have two bows, one E35 and one Red Wing Hunter. There is no nostalgia attached to bows I have owned, no " I wish I still had it ". It's simply a tool to deliver a sharp broadhead to the spot I want it to go. The only similarity to a gun in my mind is, it's like a shotgun in that it's got to fit the shooter. I know that doesn't answer the question posed by the OP, but my answer is, no, not to me.
I really like my carbons. I currently shoot a Carbon Spyder Turbo. It's smooth and quiet. I think the Z5 cam is one of the better cams Hoyt has designed.
Like Grant stated you can get some killer deals on EBay.
Do you have to have this years model no. I can tell you'll like the carbon feel on those seriously cold mornings.
No one can choose a bow for anyone it's all a personal feel for each person.
It's hard to say, as I bought my first 'new' bow this year, that being the Elite Energy 32...I still have both my Destroyers though!
You know the routine Kyle go shoot the ones you're interested in, then 'shop' 'em...EBay and AT classifieds, guys go through new bows like water on there....Lol
I like High end bows at mid-level bow prices. I buy lightly used 1 or 2 year old used models.
High end bows are not like high end rifles. The best shooting bows are those in the hands of archers who understand shooting form and shoot a lot. Get something you are comfortable with and work with it. If you think putting 2k on the counter of a bow shop will make you a better archer you are misled.
The best I ever shot was 30 years ago when in my early twenties. I had a pse I paid $103 for and used a right handed hip quiver I wore backwards since I shot left handed. I shot that bow over 100 shots a day seven days a week. I shot our clubs first perfect outdoor round and did it again 2 weeks later. If only I had my current mathews z7 and carbon express arrows back then...lol.
I think it depends on how you think about bowhunting. Are you hunting with a bow just to get the best tags, early seasons and easiest draws? If so then spend your money and buy the best archery equipment you can so your hunt will be easier.
If hunting with a bow is more about the challenge of getting close, woodsmanship and skill with a primitive weapon then who cares about all of the extra help you can purchase. It doesn't matter at all to me what people hunt with but I prefer the challenge of traditional gear. I love my modern rifles and may hunt with them someday but for now they're just used for targets. All compound bows just aren't interesting yet but I'm only 50.
BSBD so do you buy high end traditional stuff or middle of the road traditional stuff
There is a simple fact of life that many ignore, or simply refuse to admit.
Unless your own skills place you in the top 10% of ANY sport, the equipment doesn't matter. You can't buy success.
It's all a personal choice. That alone doesn't make any decision wrong in comparison to another's.
It's just a tool. If you really enjoy shooting, you'll probably enjoy it more with a top end bow, which, in turn, may make you a better archer. Certainly not necessary just to kill stuff.
JusPassin makes an excellent point, one I've used myself when it comes to golf.
If you can't consistently make solid contact, don't hit the ball a long ways, don't know how to 'work' the ball and how to manage spin, it makes little difference what ball you're using or what clubs you have.
"Unless your own skills place you in the top 10% of ANY sport, the equipment doesn't matter. You can't buy success.
JusPassin makes an excellent point, one I've used myself when it comes to golf.
If you can't consistently make solid contact, don't hit the ball a long ways, don't know how to 'work' the ball and how to manage spin, it makes little difference what ball you're using or what clubs you have."
Then how will you ever achieve excellence with less than excellent equipment? My first bow would have been futile to shoot at 50yds but with my current bow 50yds is easily achieved.
If your cheap golf ball doesn't enhance your spin you may never realize you are spinning the ball of which you can build upon. My first set of clubs were so forgiving working the ball was an absolute SOB.
I have no issues with lower end equipment (going to extremes here), but when it compromises effectiveness I draw the line. Example: Rifle shoot yesterday a guy brought an M1 garand open sights at 600yds. He was spraying bullets everywhere, one round of 15 shots he hit the target once and scored a 6. He was a safety hazard to everyone in the pit. He wasn't asked to leave but he quickly realized his equipment was inappropriate for the task.
If you do not prepare yourself for success you will continue to fail.
I know this is a bit off of your exact topic but its something to consider. Do you want to participate or do you want to be a contender?
Do you NEED to spend $1000's on a bow, no. Do you need to be efficient with your equipment, yes. Its all relative. Some people feel they need every edge, others feel they have enough to suit their needs. It boils down to you and what makes you confident to execute said task.
"Then how will you ever achieve excellence with less than excellent equipment?"
Competence must come first. Excellence can only come after you are competent.
Years ago, I shot a bow that cost $203 brand new (Browning Rage). I killed probably 15 deer with it, then upgraded to a bow that was $899 before tax (Mathews Drenalin LD) and killed about 10 or so (not much for counting kills).
The more expensive bow shoots faster but doesn't kill animals any better than the cheaper one.
My next new bow will be another cheaper model. I can see that some hunters who hunt out west for mulies, elk, and antelope or in the northern tier for caribou, moose, and sheep, may need the extra performance over a whitetail hunter but for me it is a wash.
I'm sure the M1 Garand was fine in the right hands.
My dad was in the 82nd AA in WW II, to include being part of the Normandy invasion.
He hated the M-1, much preferring the .30-06 it replaced.
I'm sure the M1 Garand was fine in the right hands. --- +open sights
Take your pick. M1 open sights or a 284 with a 50x nightforce scope? You sir brought a knife to a gun fight. And don't forget the 15mph cross wind.
If you want to up your game then by all means do it, if you're happy w/ a garage sale bow then have at it. But don't expect top end performance from an inferior weapon. Granted this is hunting and not 3d or spot shooting, again.. its all relative and your decision.
I on occassion shoot with a guy who who has won vegas and many other world titles. If he takes his time and sets up a bow the way he likes it, he can shoot a Mission Craze just as well as his 1200 Hoyts, that he likes. Used to be a Martin shooter when he won a bunch of stuff. Its the guy or girl behind the bow when it comes down to it. Shawn
An elite shooter is the example? I guess we are all in that class and should be held to that standard.
Thanks for the input, everyone.
I really do appreciate it.
My bow is shooting very, very, well, so I can't see why I need to spend any money on a new bow, as tempting as it may be.
I noticed you mentioned the carbon bows in your first post. For what its worth if you were looking to shave weight, which I was recently considering, there are other options. I was strongly considering the Heli-m.. its still in the picture, maybe next year. I'll keep rocking my outdated z7.
Remember, the only variable from shot to shot is the shooter not the bow. Your don't wear shoes that don't fit so why a bow that doesn't fit.
The fit, finish and components on the high end bows (from the good manufacturers) are significantly better than the lower end options. The lower end bows having stamped metal parts, composite limb pockets, etc compared to the better materials and machining used on the flag ship models. That is the big difference I've noticed. The best comparison I can make is in cars/pickups. A GMC work model truck will get you to the same place as the Denali version. Just a matter of how much the improvements are worth to you in the ride and other amenities. If you are a thrifty guy just pick up one of those higher end models from a year or two ago and get them for a similar price to the current mid-range bows.
Long and Short: You have to be sure that you are matching the equipment to your skill level, or you'll just frustrate yourself. Also helps - before you part with your money - to be brutally, honestly clear on what you're spending for.
But if you've got any interest in the long form....
JMO....
Somebody compared bows to shotguns, which is totally inappropriate relative to a compound. The argument is a somewhat better fit for a barebow shooter (more on that in a second), but compounds are more like rifles.
If all you expect from a rifle is itty-bitty groups, it's pretty hard to justify spending thousands of dollars when you can pay just a few hundred for a kitted-out Savage that will out-shoot any custom rifle that Jack O'Connor ever had a chance to handle, let alone own. Shotguns are different. You get one that Fits, and amazing things can happen. A couple decades ago - now closer to three, I suppose - my brother dropped a couple grand (at Pro-Deal) on a custom stocked SXS 20 ga.... You might think that was a good idea or a bad one, but before anyone gets too smug about their favorite 870 from Wal-Mart, I should probably mention the afternoon that he dumped 7 doves on 5 shells....
I guess the point being that the extra dollars CAN make quite a difference if you know where to spend them.
But one angle I haven't yet seen here....
A lot of times, the high-end equipment requires a pretty high - end user to make it behave. I used to do the Ski Instructor thing, and I can't tell you how many times I've watched an intermediate struggling down the hill, wrestling a top-rated, high-performance ski that is out of their weight-class by about 3 or 4 divisions. They just don't have the technique; and even if they did, they don't begin to have the strength to stand up under the forces that a ski like that requires...
Similar things happen with mountain bikes (twitchy front ends throw the Noobs into the ditch), fly-rods (you can't make the rod do the work if you can't feel it load up), golf clubs (out of my league here, but I'm told that shaft selection is much like getting an arrow with the right spine).... You get the idea.
Of course, a Genius can usually make a silk purse out of just about anything you hand him/her - WITHIN ITS LIMITATIONS. The last year I taught, I rode 16 different pairs of skis, ranging from Top-Enders designed for guys weighing half again as much as I did, all the way down to Advanced Intermediate rental packages. The best skis built for the Big Dudes were fun, but taxing. They're made to be skied at 2 Gs, and I had to hit 3 to get their attention. The high-end skis for people roughly my size turned out to be Disposable (half-life of about 2 days, which would get an LOL if they didn't cost so damn much!).... and one pair of rentals very nearly killed me when I tipped in to a turn on a hole-shot and there was nothing there to steer me around a 22" diameter Doug Fir.
Helmet Early Adopter. Almost puked.
So anyway, I wonder about what happens when an ambitious newcomer goes Big and buys over his head right out of the gate...?
I don't don't play golf, but when I dabbled in it (about half a lifetime ago), I can attest to the fact that I was a helluvalot better with my mother-in-law's early '90s Pings than I was with my dad's set that he had purchased at the PX when he was stationed in France after the war... Amazing what 50 years' worth of technology can do... Even for something as basic as a club.
Anyway... One Man's Opinion:
Before you go dropping a Pile O' Cash, just make sure you know what you're buying and Why. Speed has its charms, but beyond 25 yards you really owe it to the animals to get a solid range measurement, in which case the few hundredths of a second on the hang time probably won't amount to much. At least not compared to a bow which is a lot more forgiving and which lets you stack arrows right on in there like you knew what you were doing in the first place.
If you have any bad habits, a top-end Speedster may be way more trouble than it's worth. And FWIW, if you have a bow that you like and which you shoot well, then maybe your back-up should be identical in everything but the serial number.
Nva, my easiest bow to shoot well is a 353 fps rated Obsession Evolution. Darn thing is very forgiving for me. It's only about 30 fps faster than my Bowtech Admiral, or SBXT, but it shoots better for me.
YMMV.
I never thought they were till I won one in a raffle, now saying that, doesn't mean I think an expensive one will make you more skilled, just that it is probably flatter shooting and more reliable and durable. You don't have to get the most expensive model, just the higher end. For example, I know there's one out now that has both an aluminum riser and same model with a carbon riser, carbon is just lighter not better from the way I understand it. My philosophy is buy a high end used bow for cheaper than a lower end one used, put the best set of strings and accessories on it you can with the money you saved and go hunting
My two cents, used bows often don't come with a warranty. Some manufactures warranties pass on to the next buyer, some don't. Something to consider and keep in mind....
So I think you can save a ton and buy a year end high end carbon bow and save a couple hundred bucks. Love Bowsite and is my favorite hunting sight, however I have now bought or traded for two bows on Achery Talk in classified with great results. You can look a around an find someone selling unregistered bow and than the warranty is yours. Just make sure you ask shop that person bought bow with, good luck!
I don't know what bow you shoot now, but here's my 2 cents.....
When I was shopping for a new bow last year, I shot all of the Hoyts and was really liking the Nitrum series. I wasnt looking to buy a carbon bow, but they had them there to test shoot so I did.
Let me tell you........ if I had the extra $$$ to burn, I would have bought the carbon version. Was it that much better??? No, but I did like it a lot.
Try them out and buy what you want and like.
Just because A USMC Scout Sniper program instructor hands me his favorite $3000-$4000 rifle and scope in .338 Lapua and custom loaded ammo most certainly DOES NOT mean I instantly will become an effective shot to 1600 meters, and the same goes with archery equipment or for that matter ALL equipment regardless of sport.
I would NEVER begrudge anyone the right to spend THEIR money any way they deem fit. BUT IMHO, no bow TO ME is worth $800 lest alone $1300, because it simply can NOT make me that much better a hunter to justify it's cost.
As far as killing deer, especially big mature white tails, with todays modern AFFORDABLE compound bows, your gear as long as it's good, is again IMHO the LEAST important factor in my chances of success.
I've been saying this for decades, quality archery gear will at best make a good competent hunter a LITTLE better, but no matter how much you spend, equipment will never turn a less than average hunter in to a accomplished one. That takes time dedication and commitment, there are no known shortcuts to becoming a accomplished archery hunter.
Just my .2c worth.
The floor today is very high. Even the bows at the bottom end of the price scale are darn good shooters. But for me, the Obsession might as well be guided by the force. It's that good.
Funny how the heart of the BOWhunting operation is seen as minimizing investment, but not afraid to overpay on something else that could be lost such as arrows or broadheads.
NOPE ... "stuff" is too pricey and one don't really need all 'the bells & whistles' to bow hunt and kill a animal!
Funny how this thread became the epitome of over stating the obvious.
"Are the higher end bows worth it?" is answered with "better equipment doesn't make you a better hunter".
Remarkable thread.
The last time I was shooting a compound was back in the early '80s. I owned 2 Golden Eagles that cost me $215 each. I sold them both and ended up with 2 Hoyt Pro Hunters that cost about $260 each. I think back then I saw the future and knew both technology and prices would never stop moving forward. Back then nobody was talking seriously about routinely making game shots of 50-100 yards. Those bows were perfectly accurate at 'normal' bowhunting distances. We broke nocks and destroyed arrows routinely on the 3D ranges. So do I think top end bows make a difference and are worth the money? No...not when it comes down to pure hunting use. I think there are plenty of reasons for guys to own the very finest, latest or priciest bows but turning that ownership into successful hunting is always going to be mostly about the man doing the deed.
So you know....I have owned plenty of bows (recurves and longbows) that cost me way more than seems prudent. I'm not afraid to drop a G+ on a good bow, but I know money doesn't always buy better performance or enhance my results. It's usually more about the intangible of wanting something different, new and appealing. Then I take it and go hunt.
I think one of the things a lot of guys overlook when talking about high end bows is how much some people use them. You see people all the time drop the same cash on golf clubs and not bat an eye, or buy the newest trucks, boats, bikes, or watercraft/ATV's.
Archery is my passion, bowhunting is the main driver behind that but I just flat enjoy shooting a bow and do it several times per week year round. I shoot 3D in the summer and indoor in the winter. I use my same hunting rig for all of those endeavors. A lot of guys have hunting bows, target bows, and 3D bows. More power to them I say! I chose to buy for me what was the best bow on the planet and tricked it out with what I thought were the best accessories, price be damned. I ended up with an Xpedition Xcentric 7, and like was mentioned above it's like that thing is a laser guided game killing and target hitting machine. I could always shoot pretty capably but this bow took things to the next level for me. I enjoy shooting at long range, 80-100 yards. This bow makes that a piece of cake compared to my old Mathews. I would never take a shot at a game animal at that range but it's amazing what being able to hit what you aim at out to 100 will do for your confidence when you have a 20-40 yard shot. Plus for my hunting out west if something were to go awry and I needed a follow-up shot I know I can make that shot if I ever need to. Now I'm not saying the bow makes all the difference but it certainly made a big difference for me. My cost per usage of that bow will be quite low if/when I ever retire it making it's ownership a bargain in the grand scheme of things. If bowhunting or archery is your passion then a high end bow is worth it. It might not be for everyone and that's okay too. As long as you get out there and enjoy the sport it's all worth it!
will a three hundred dollar rifle shoot as well as a thousand dollar rifle when it comes to hunting accuracy? Will a off the shelf PSE four hundred dollar bow shoot as well as a thousand dollar bow for hunting purposes, you bet. The higher end bows like guns certainly have better fit and finish and the reputation within the hunting community. It's our egos that makes us want the higher end weapon, when you are with your buddies at the range or showing up to an outfitted hunt etc... Somehow we feel since we have the best made it makes us better and or least look better. I shoot trad and I have some high end bows, black widow which sell new for 1100 bucks, thankfully I got used for less than half. I don't shoot it any better than my 1969 bear kodiak Hunter or grizzly, which I paid 150/ 75 dollars for, but I look good holding that Widow and others at the range all look and want to try it. I'm not saying don't spend your money on the high end bows but your paying for a lot of fluff and marketing these companies put into them, ie... Matthews, Elite.
Funny thing, Brotsky - I had just begun composing that same post in my head when I refreshed the thread and there you were!
So, yeah, as I said in my (very long) earlier post - just depends what you expect to get for your money. For some, it's worth it just to know that they'll have the most expensive bow in camp. Others just Have To Have whatever their favorite celebrity bowhunter is hyping in this season of his TV show. A guy who shoots 3-4 weeks before the season probably has more to lose than to gain. WAY better off with a less fancy rig that is properly tuned and capable of dropping fixed-blade heads into the same hole as his field points, but we all know of people who will buy a new bow with almost no time before the season, then get frustrated and switch to a mechanical when they can't get tuned in time, then whang away from an extra 15 yards out because he thinks the new bow will make him shoot like a superhero....
Then he'll come in here asking for advice on how to recover that buck he wounded...
And FWIW... Funny how often we debate Ethics around here, and then you see something about buying a used bow with the warranty card still not filled out so that a second-hand buyer (or third? fourth?) can get the benefit of a non-transferable warranty.
If I were a bow manufacturer and somebody tried to process a warranty claim on a 2 or 3 (or more) year-old bow that had just been registered, I'd tell him to shove it so far that he'd have fiber-optic eyeballs and a stabilizer coming out of his forehead.
Juspassin;
Imagine a Scottish accent;
"Damn your eyes man" you said in 3 sentences more sucsaintly than I did in dozens. I shall use (read that plagerize) your assessment in all future replies to such equipment evaluation threads.
Extremely well stated.
I know a bow shop that has several new discontinued bows on their shelf. How fair would that be if the manufacturer told you to kick rocks after you just bought one of their bows? I also remember when there were no serial numbers and no registry for your warranty.. Companies used to stand behind their products not just their "better off$$$" customers.
Not to mention my first mathews lifetime warranty no registry no SN cost 400. Can't remember the price on zmax and ultramax, but take a few years off archery and now $1000 is normal PLUS all the hoops to jump through. IS obama running the bow companies? paying more theoretically getting less.
ANymore it seems the sole owner pays for the warranty more so than the actual product. No wonder used bow prices plummet after the fact. I'm curious how many people have had a bow riser fail?
This also gives way to buying only very popular bows 2nd hand for when you have to find parts they will be easier to come buy and hopefully at reasonable prices.
Ps, I get your point but the bow co don't know the details of your purchase with a blank registry and phony receipt.
Brotsky
Your post applied what in Economics is called utility.
Well written sir! That is exactly why people justify a purchase (of any kind).
How do you determine the top 10% of hunters?
"There is a simple fact of life that many ignore, or simply refuse to admit. Unless your own skills place you in the top 10% of ANY sport, the equipment doesn't matter. You can't buy success."
Hunters spending $1500 on a bare bow aren't doing it because they need to, they're doing it because they want to.
I want to, but I don't need to.
Why anyone would give a rip how much anyone else spends on a bow, or anything else for that matter, is beyond me. Regardless of what they spend, it's obviously worth it to them or they wouldn't spend it to begin with.
LB shooter- You're wrong on several points. Start shooting your $300 rifle with a $150 scope at targets 1000 yards away (or even 600 yards) and you will see it doesn't hold a candle to a $1000 target rifle. Sure, you might hit the gong once in a while, but you won't be shooting small targets at that range with every squeeze of the trigger. I've noticed the same when shooting my Mathews ZXT at 55 yards compared to my Parker. I could care less about about ego driven purchases. All my high end firearms purchases were done so simply because they are the best tool for the job- something I learned after showing up with a cheaper gun that couldn't get the job done.
Hahaha, I was waiting for the rifle comment to get called out. Even at $1000 you would likely be under gunned on our F-class line. My scope cost that and I'm middle of the pack, never mind the competition's $1500 front rest.
I'd rather have a $1000 scope on a $300 rifle than a $100 scope on a $1200 rifle.
Likewise, I'd rather have top-shelf rest & sights on a $500 bow, than a $50 rest & $50 sight on a $1500 bow.
Food for thought...
"I'd rather have top-shelf rest & sights on a $500 bow, than a $50 rest & $50 sight on a $1500 bow."
x-man hit the nail on the head as usual! Some guys put the cheapest crap they can on an expensive bow because they blew their wad on the rig. It all works together guys! Your expensive bow is only as good as the part you bolt on it!
Thornton, if you read my post I clearly stated that for Hunting accuracy, I don't know anybody that shoots at an animal at 1000 yards, and if you do then it certainly ain't hunting. As has been mentioned, the scope/sights are more important then the weapon. Most shooters regardless if it's a bow or rifle will never out shoot the potential of that weapon. If you are talking about shooting matches out to 1000 yards and wanting 1/2 Mao then sure price does matter but I believe we are talking about hunting.
What x-man just said! I decided last spring I wanted a new bow. When I got to pricing the bow and equipment, I realized it was all more than I could afford in one year.
Top end accessories add up to almost as much as the bow!!
So this year I have been purchasing the accessories and putting them on my old bow for now. New sight, new quiver, new stabilizer. Arrow rest is next, just haven't bothered to order it yet. Bow comes next spring.
I have to say, I doooo love the new accessories!! Made a big difference in the way my old bow shoots. I had always purchased lower end accessories because I couldn't afford better. This time I am purchasing top end accessories and it has been worth it so far.
"Thornton, if you read my post I clearly stated that for Hunting accuracy, I don't know anybody that shoots at an animal at 1000 yards, and if you do then it certainly ain't hunting."
I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion. There are also a lot of guys who say shooting a treed cat or bear ain't huntin either. Just b/c their methods do not coincide with yours doesn't give you the right to discredit them.
Guess what, 1000yd shots are being made more regularly.. ya know why? b/c of better equipment.. that equipment is usually considered "high dollar".. which boils down to high dollar equipment making hunters more efficient in the field.. I'd say worth it. (before anyone cries, yes people miss, yes people maim etc etc etc... we are all hunters and we all know hunting success is not absolute... blah blah typical B-ow S-ite... BS)
I think the majority of bow companies now are pretty consistent quality wise........at least as well as I can hold steady......
I just checked my receipt on a Diamond Carbon Cure I purchased at Cabelas around Christmas for a whopping $$ 275.00 $$ with the 25.00 Cabelas bucks, I got it for 250.00
I transferred my 7 pin Black Gold over which is a rugged accurate sight that I had on a previous Martin. I did spend money on a custom, color matched Rip Cord rest.........
For my money and skill level, I go with a mid range bow and good quality sight and rests......quiver and stabilizer I'm not as picky about either.
When I started building self bows for pennies, justifying the money spent became harder and harder to swallow.....
Cheap accessories as in price or quality/functionality?
Apex Tundra 4 pin sight, $40 (approximately) Whisker Biscuit, $40 (approximately)
Put on a new Carbon Defiant, bow will shoot dang nice and accurate.
MBG Ascent, $185 (approximately) QAD HDX, $150 (approximately)
Put on a new Hoyt Powermax, bow will shoot dang nice and accurate.
It's all relative...
Ohiohunter, if you think shooting an animal at a 1000 yards is hunting then I feel sorry for you. That's target shooting ,nothing more, and it doesn't speak well for your hunting skills.
Call it what you want, I've never done it (honestly Im not proficient enough so I wouldn't attempt it), but I don't have the audacity to tell another person their chosen method is not hunting. Don't let your short sighted narrow minded ignorance get in the way of other people's passions.
Very few can shoot accurately out to 1000 yards, not an easy task, especially on a live animal. Ignorance, short sighted? I think not, it's not anything that should be promoted in the hunting industry and its certainly not hunting.
I personally know men who can make better shots at a 1000 yards consistently than guys I've seen make at 100. Who's the better hunter? Especially since the 1,000 yard guys rarely take that shot, they stalk into more comfortable distances. Guys that shoot at those distances know their capabilities in my experience based upon all of the factors, wind, temp, air density, etc in a given situation and have proven to me they only take ethical shots. Your mileage may vary, just my personal experience with the type.
Who is promoting it? All I see is unwarranted criticism of it. I'm done, I know stubborn stupidity when I see it.
I agree, there are more people as a whole who cannot make a 1000 yd shot accurately. However, if your ability allows you to do it, by all means do it.
The best hunter always had meat in his lodge...
ohiohunter, you were done when you opened your mouth an started with the insults, usually that happens when one can't come up with anything better. If you read my post from the start I was talking about hunting conditions/accuracy. A $300 bow/rifle will shoot as well as the $1000 bow/rifle will under normal ethical distances. As you stated, we all know hunting hunting success is not absolute, and your right about that, however, we have a duty to the animal and to the hunting community to make every shot opportunity as successful as possible and decrease the chance of wounding and wasting that animal and taking 1000 yards shots ain't that.
Do not misconstrue insults and observations.
Since this is Bowsite I think we can take the rifles out of the discussion?
Ethical distances are directly related to a specific hunter's ability, not the weapon regardless of price. Your ethical distance may be longer or shorter than mine. The ethics of the hunter based upon their personal knowledge of what they can and cannot do reliably set that distance. Hopefully you are not suggesting that ethical distance is the same for everyone.
Brotsky, I believe there is a limit one should shoot at a live animal, especially when woods and brush are involved. Shooting at a target in an open area is one thing but on live animals is another. I'm not saying there aren't some very good archers who can shoot to 100 yards like Tim Wells and some others. I would be willing to bet that more animals are wounded by guys taking shots to 60/70 yards. The shows promote it by taking those types of shots and then you always get the" oh I hit him a little far back". So yes, I think there is an ethical distance when shooting at live animals. I can hit targets at 50 yards with my longbow/recurve but I wold never take that shot at a live anaimal, I keep them under 30 yards. Jmo
I pick up my new Halon tomorrow! I started out looking at mid-priced bows because I think $1000 for a new bow is terrible. The last bow I bought close to 30 years ago, a Martin Cougar Magnum that I paid $275.00 new is still effective for hunting and I took a fine buck with it last year. After shooting PSE, Mission, and Elite, I decided to shoot a Halon. First off, all the parallel limb bow were amazing to shoot compared to my old bow. But the Halon was noticeably better. It was a dream to shoot. The decision to go this expensive was based mostly on how the bow felt while shooting it. I've decked it out with the best accessories to take full advantage of the full setup. Now, I had to start wrestling how to justify in my own mind the extra cost rather than settling for a lesser expensive bow. 1. Archery and Bowhunting are my greatest passion after the big stuff. 2. I see the value in the workmanship and attention to detail in this higher end bow. 3. I'm 55 years old shooting a bow that's 30 years old so this bow will likely last me a good long time. 4. At this point in my life I deserve to treat myself once in a while with whatever I feel are the finer things in life.
Worth the cost? To me, absolutely!
Hmmmm... Sirloin steak from Walmart or a 2" New York cut or a nice prime rib?... On the other hand-- Miss Texas or Miss California versus Miss North Dakota? How bout the $1k a night-hooker versus the 20 bucks-for 30 minutes-hooker... You tell me...
I don't know how you guys shoot a $400 bow and shoot 1000 yards. I got a good bow and struggle shooting at 200. Oh well i guess i will just go get my leg hold traps and shoot over my limit of trophy bucks out of season with mechanical poison arrows while blinding them with spolights during ramadan and leave the meat to rot while i sell the horns to the chinese to be ground into powder so that they can be sexually aroused and come over here taking more american jobs. Or i could simply civily answer the original question asked by the thread holder.
I'm really hypocritical when it comes to all this stuff. I buy the top of the line bows (not carbon but would like to try one), but I refuse to buy top of the line clothing. I won't spend high dollars on broadheads either (I buy Steelheads cheap on ebay). I did buy a high dollar Lone Wolf tree stand and sticks. But I bought cheaper binos and range finder. I don't buy TOTL arrows either, they're usually .003 straight. Have a great rest, but a mid priced sight and quiver. Pretty nice stabilizer and release.
Do I think the TOTL bows are worth it? Probably not. I think the bow I shot best was a 1987 PSE Pulsar that had nylon round wheels and cost less than 100 bucks. Course I was young, strong as an ox, and had great hand/eye coordination back then. Man I could hit the bull with that thing. When a wheel started squeaking, I quit using it and bought a PSE Jet Flite Express, which was a TOTL bow in the day. Shot that one good too.
DITTO X 10 Helgermite. I'v been shooting bow since the Bear White Tail Hunter was a new bow. My previous bow was a Z7 Extreme. I waited for the No Cam to be improved. It was to "light" and slow. And that is what they did. The Halon 6 is super fast, smooth, beefy and easy to shoot. We set the bow up and with three shots it was shooting perfect bullet holes through paper. I will be shooting this bow for many years to come. I think it takes about five years of improvements to make a bow "worth" the money. The Halon 6 was worth it to me. Scott
Sirloin vs New York Strip vs Prime Rib. In the end it's a crap shoot decision.
Can't really compare the cost of a bow 30 years ago to one today because once upon a time, a movie cost a dime.
The cost of manufacture and demand drive price.
Shooting a Quest Prime for the last couple years, Very forgiving. Love it, most forgiving bow since the a-fore mentioned above Martin Cougar Magnum. Loved that bow. I am a hunter first, bow has performed as designed. I with it have killed deer ever year. Complete pass through's and smooth. Did not need to spend 1000's. Went through that stage, owned all the first overdraws, PSE Mach I-II, Martins, Jennings, Hoyts. If it was out had to have it. Blew up a bunch to. Buy what you shoot well and does it's job on the animal you respect so much.
I have shot a lower end bow from a well known maker for 5 years now. I fell for the hype about speed and smooth draw and sweet shooting bow, all that stuff. So I took the bait and bought the new best thing. Shot it for almost 2 months, all the time telling myself how great my new bow was. The problem arose when I got my old bow out one day and started shooting it. A week later I put the new one up for sale and have went back to my old bow that fit me like an old boot. Just Sayin'.
Curious MM, how do you fall for the hype? Me personally could care less about what the ads say or the guy next to me says, if I shoot the bow and like it the end. Same goes for anyone else, be comfortable in your own skin and choices. I've shot 100% of my bows before purchasing so I know exactly what I'm getting into. Did you blindly buy the bow?
Thats like buying a used truck w/out a test drive, without popping the hood, nor looking at the miles on it, ya just don't do it.
I like how coy a lot of responses are... "well known brand", "popular lines", etc... Almost like the secret fishing lure they've used to win multiple tourneys on the same lake!
I just didnt want to start an argument about brands of bows. I am actually kicking myself for what I did because I Knew better. I am left handed so I dont have the same opportunity that rt handers have. I bought it used, and sold it and came out even. I do think that you have to shoot a bow for a while to really know if you like it. Dont be stupid like I was.
Mailman, I have the same issue, being a lefty. So, I shoot RH bows, often left handed, to get hand shock, ease of draw, and a feel for the valley.
That's how I ended up with the my current favorite. Went there to buy a Bowtech Carbon Knight. Shot one, didn't much care for it. The shop owner told me to try the Obsession, which I did. Fired it once, said "oh, sh**, and threw the card on the table. 6 weeks later I had it.
Next time I want a bow, it might be another brand altogether.
My 5 year old bow is actually a Bowtech Assasin. It's just me. Simple and reliable. My son has a Carbon Knight. LH. I dont like it. My good friend just got an Obsession Defcon RH and he loves it also. Again, I dont want to start a brand discussion, just saying that for me, I already owned the bow for me, I just didnt know it. It was not Bowtechs Flagship bow.
For whatever reason mathews has always fit me, i've tried to jump ship several times just for the change and perhaps a little more speed.
I shot the carbon knight, I agree, it wasn't pleasant. Too shocking for me. The RPM shot nice but the grip has a lot to be desired. Again, it is all relative, just b/c its not the flagship bow doesn't mean its behind its time. I tried hoyt carbon, not impressed, and really not impressed by their mediocre weight savings. The Heli-m is lighter.
I'm shooting the orig z7. I'll be shooting it for a long time, though the halon is sweet, its a sweet tank.
I feel the pain of the lefty curse. Most of the time you buy a bow hoping you'll like it. I've been able to shoot a couple of models first prior to buying, but most are pulling it back right handed to see what it's draw cycle is like. Never have shot a RH model LH - scared it might feel to weird and not get a good feel for the bow.
Ohio, I've always been a Mathews man too. Have you shot the Halon? I shot the Z7 extreme since it was new. Like I have said before. They finally made a bow worth the jump. I love my Halon 6
I would say that there are too many variables that must be considered to answer that question truthfully because all things are relative.
Most notably is want or need. Affordability and skill set.
Pro-Competition shooters have little choice as cutting edge technology is a absolute necessity as the margin of error is razor thin.
Recreational hunting offers a much wider window that can suit your pocket and your "need". Ability to perform and knowledge are advantages that can't be replaced to consistently succeed. Shot placement in this scenario reigns supreme coupled with adequate equipment in capable hands and decision making at the shot.
The "want" is another animal entirely.
The Rock
I've shot it. It is sweet, but I'm not hauling it up and down these mountains. 4lbs is where I draw the line, if a bow is going to be heavy I want to be the one to put the weight on it.
You nailed it again,ohiohunter. That is another reason my old bow seemed so much better after shooting the new heavy one. A pound gets awfull heavy on an extended arm.
To me they are. Will gladly upgrade from my CST once Hoyt designs something I like better. Fairly easy to justify this when you consider that bow cost is such a tiny element of an overall hunting budget. I can upgrade to the best Carbon Hoyt about every 3 years for roughly 35.00/month. That's about 1/20th of a truck payment.
To each his own. I just bought a used by like NIB 2010 High Country X-10 Speed Pro for $300. Granted purchases such as these are some what of a risk, but this bow had but one small scratch about 1/16" in size on a otherwise perfect condition bow. No rust or blemishes anywhere else. And that was precisely how the bow was listed.
I would rate this bow as being on par with just about any bow in production to day in terms of speed and shootability. I have in order of when purchased owned compounds from York (1), Golden Eagle (1), Parker (1), Alpine (1), Hoyt (1), High Country, PSE (3), Darton (2)Bowtech(1) Elite (1) and once again High Country.
I can honestly say I was more than a little concerned when I bought the HC X-10,but I had shot one and instantly knew it fit me like no other bow I had ever shot and shot like no other bow I had ever tried, so I bought one.
I have never been more satisfied with any hunting related purchase I have ever made, as I can shoot this bow unlike any other I have ever shot.
Having said that I actually found a pro shop with a supply of brand new X-10's available for over $800 each and I simply can not bring myself to buy one.
But that might change if my search for a second used but in VG-EX condition X-10 doesn't happen, then I just MIGHT have to come here and profess my guilt as a hypocrite because I may just take the plunge and buy one. Unless that is I come across a used but in VG-EX condition X-12 speed pro. But before I do that I will have to take a 2 hour ride to my nearest HC dealer and test drive an X-12.
I had yet another problem with the bow. So today I decided, "Enough is Enough" and bought a Mathews Halon 6.
Sweet shooting bow for sure!
This new bow shoots REALLY sweet!
Glad you like it. Confidence in equipment speaks volumes.
Just an subject update. I just bought a new never shot Darton DS 3714 a $850-$900 bow when new for $500 off Ebay. I had been looking to buy one for a LONG LONG time but never could find one in my price range till now. Not only was it IMHO a great price it was exactly the bow I was looking for.
So if one is patient you can get some great deals on otherwise very expensive bows. I could have bought a newer but used model at less than half the cost of new, but I felt the additional cost was justifiable for a new never used bow that was the exact model and with the exact specifications I wanted.
So I bought the exact bow I always wanted brand new for a savings of 45-55% VS new.
Seeing as I just purchased a Hoyt Carbon Defiant 34"...Yes. And, yes, it's Ridge Reaper Camo.:) To be honest though...it's an amazing bow.
The hoyt carbon Bows sure are pretty badass!
If it has static yokes then it is.
Forget all the BS about what you "need" and justifying costs. I shoot high end bows better than mainline or entry level bows. They're smoother on draw, they hold more steady, they're quieter on release. A Kia will get you to the same destination as a Mercedes but it's not the same. If you can afford a top of the line bow than buy it. If you can't afford it I can give you the name of a great financial planner that I know...
