Enter 100 for a rock climbing harness and 200 for a traditional full body harness.
Just comment "none" if you don't wear one.
Oh and for me.
200
But planning on switching to a 100....
Terry
Average Guess =
200
HAPPY HUNTING EVERYBODY. Stay safe.
Please stay connected 100% of the time!
IMO a RC is more comfortable & works better with clothing options.
You can't invert unless you're overweight/shaped like an upside down bowling pin. And even if you could, you have WAY TOO MUCH slack in the rope. Try it, I have.
Both are better than a belt or no safety system.
Not trying to be a wiseguy here, but on the off chance that someone fell in such a way that they WERE inverted, the shoulder straps of a full body harness keep you cinched into the harness.....what keeps you from sliding out of a rock climbing harness?
I normally operate on the assumption that the harness is to arrest my fall. After that, I can right myself and descend....suspension trauma, while a concern, apparently assumes that I cannot descend. If my fall has been arrested, (and as a hunter, I will have a knife on me), couldn't I just cut a strap and climb down...assuming that I am using a ladder stand or a stand with climbing sticks? If using a portable climber, I'd just have to "inchworm" my way down....I might lose some chest hair, but it beats the alternative.
I would submit that it may be possible to invert in either type of harness (regardless of body shape)....most simulated "practice" falls probably assume a feet first fall....but I doubt that many people have attempted a headfirst "practice" fall. The length of the tether would also be a factor here, I suspect.
Since the potential for a fall is FAR more probable for a rock climber, than a bowhunter, I don't doubt that the rock climbing harness may have an application......is this harness debate common to rock climbers as well....or do rock climbers ALL use the legs only type of harness? In that case, is it for the concern with suspension trauma, or more likely, because the shoulder straps pose somewhat of a hindrance when climbing? Just wondering?
Since it would be rather easy for full harness manufacturers to simply lower where the tether attaches to the harness, if suspension trauma was significantly more likely in a FB harness, that attachment point should indeed, be lowered....unless there is a possible trade-off. Since I have never heard of a rock climber "falling out" of a harness when inverted, I wonder what the logic is for the attachment being located where it is on the FB harnesses....
Rock climbing harnesses have a purpose......rock climbing where you are attached on the front of your body and facing the rocks. Very different than treestand hunting, where you face away from your tether point.
Medicineman, RC climbers fall all the time. If "falling out inverted" was a concern, they would all wear a FB harness. Only children with small pelvis need a FB. When the waist belt has pressure applied, the circle shape becomes an oval. The waist belt is above the pelvic/iliac crest bones. If you have little slack in the safety rope, HOW would you ever fall head first? Try it. If you were sitting, and fell asleep, you would start head-first, but the rope would get tight before you came off the seat.
The "logic" for the front attachment as to do with suspension trauma... "Legs down" with a FB creates pressure on the femoral VAN(vein, artery, nerve) causing suspension trauma. RC harness holding you in a seated position creates less pressure in the groin area, small risk suspension trauma. Lots of rock climbers, "hang out" seated in their harness to rest because it is that comfortable.
A RC harness is less in the way when drawing and shooting your bow.
HerdManager, "The only way you wind up seated in a rock harness is if the tether is in the front of the harness, as in rock climbing. I don't want to be attached at the front, which will most likely twist you if you fall"
The only way you FALL is SEATED. As you fall, the "twist" also slows your fall...2 feet.
Attaching a RC harness in the (***correction***)BACK is a BAD IDEA. You would be dangling horizontal, face down, unable to rescue, but more importantly you are hanging legs down...causing suspension trauma. Don't try that!
FB harnesses are fine, but RC harnesses Pros outweigh the Cons IMO. I don't care which one you use, but use one. If you HATE a regular harness for "X" reason, you might like the RC, and then you would be safe. :-)
You are assuming that in normal circumstances, a head first fall cannot occur. I would agree. However, most falls probably occur when circumstances are NOT normal...THAT is why the fall occurs. Please don't misunderstand, I am not trying to debate the merits of FB versus RC....I am trying to learn if there is something better out there, than what I am currently using.
I come back to one of my original questions....if the threat of suspension trauma is such a concern, why aren't the manufacturers of FB harnesses simply lowering where the strap attaches to the harness? Then, the FB harness essentially acts like a RC harness, with the extra security of the shoulder straps? Maybe it is something that should be considered.....I was just wondering if any FB harness manufacturers could chime in....I see the merit of your comparison....just wondering why it hasn't been addressed, unless another factor is being over looked.....
I apologize for the tangent created here, as well.....
RC harness allows you to hang in a SEATED position, attached in the FRONT(sorry for the confusion in earlier post). As I stated to HerdManager, attaching the RC in the back (if you rigged it) would cause suspension trauma because of compression on the femoral VAN.
Back to your senerio..."short in the torso" would decrease a head-down fall because you are less top-heavy. "and you have one of the older tethers which were rather long", ? Are you talking about FB or RC harnesses? Confused.
If you have THAT much slack that you could fall head first, I would still prefer a RC over a FB. Why? You are at greater risk for being knocked unconscious. If you are KO'ed, would you rather be in a FB or RC? Answer: RC. Suspension trauma would kill you first, advantage RC.
Great questions! If you get a chance try one out.
Awareness about safety is a great topic for bowsite. I'm more upset that I didn't get the measurement "poll" working than I am about this tangent. So, not at all.
BTW, in your original post, you show a photo of what I assume is an RC harness. What are the squiggly lines that attach to the leg straps and the middle of the waist belt? Are they to help keep the individual "level" when suspended?
I don't see a clip on the "Edelweiss" side of the belt....how does it attach?...is it "just" a belt, with no clip at all? (Maybe it is just the way that the photo shows it).
Attachment is with a carabiner or rope at the RED LOOP.
The only negative I can think of is using it lineman's-style. You can add side loops with rope or nylon straps or just attach both ends in the front. See DM/WOLFSKIN's photo for the lineman's attachment.
OR
Purchase a $200 MistyMountain Cadillac Tactical harness. The ONLY RC harness I know of that has weight rated gear loops: http://mistymountain.com/military-tactical/cadillac-tactical.html "The Cadillac Tactical harness strength is rated to 16kN (3,600 lbs), gear loops rated to 8kN (1,800 lbs), rear haul loop(***DONT DO IT***) rated to 10 kN (2,250 lbs) and front belay/rappel loop rated to 27 kN (6,075 lbs)." Then you could safely clip your lineman's belt to the gear loops.
OR
Others purchase a climbing loop and thread it around the waist belt for attachment points for the lineman's belt. I forget the name of that harness...
Now he's showing a lot of options, but the blue "ascender" is just a fancy prusik knot; however, if you get one its you will see how much easier it is using one.
Main advantage to me was I just hated hauling in the whole FB harness. They're so dang bulky.
So 74% using a traditional full body harness, 22% using a rock climbing harness and 4% using just a belt. Thanks for the info guys & gals. Stay safe.
Next poll should as Charlie's question. Who is connected from the ground up? I would guess 75% compliance.
Tried "falling" out of a tree with each, and RC wins for ease of self-rescue, by a thousand miles. If everyone actually tried this test rather than assuming that the front tether gets in the way (it doesn't), or that you can flip upside down (you won't), they would never sell another full body again.
If you fall a RC is more comfortable hanging,easier to rescue(facing the tree) & much less risk of suspension trauma.
WHAT IFS: What is more likely: going inverted & falling out or losing consciousness(KO'ed or syncope)? If you pass-out in a FB, you can't self-rescue. Think about that...
Interesting. Sure are a lot more options now than there used to be.
I use a FB harness because when I was shopping for a safety harness I went to cabelas and that's what they carry. Its the one with the shock dampener system made by summit. It sure is better than what I used to use years ago which was just a belt and strap. Never really considered an RC harness. Guess I knew they existed but being a hunter I went to a store that sells hunting equipment and the summit is what they carried.
