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Discuss Bloodtrail Challenge 40
Whitetail Deer
Contributors to this thread:
Pat Lefemine 31-Oct-16
txhunter58 31-Oct-16
HuntnBigGame 01-Nov-16
Per48R 01-Nov-16
drycreek 01-Nov-16
N8tureBoy 01-Nov-16
drycreek 01-Nov-16
buckshot 01-Nov-16
bigbuckbob 02-Nov-16
txhunter58 02-Nov-16
PECO 02-Nov-16
Brotsky 02-Nov-16
PECO 02-Nov-16
ahunter55 02-Nov-16
drycreek 02-Nov-16
12yards 02-Nov-16
Hackbow 02-Nov-16
HerdManager 02-Nov-16
Pat Lefemine 02-Nov-16
RED ONE 02-Nov-16
Bob H in NH 02-Nov-16
greg simon 02-Nov-16
tradmt 02-Nov-16
itshot 02-Nov-16
Per48R 02-Nov-16
itshot 02-Nov-16
Dr. Deer 02-Nov-16
ahunter55 02-Nov-16
DRR324 02-Nov-16
dg72A 03-Nov-16
PECO 03-Nov-16
bigbuckbob 03-Nov-16
elkmtngear 03-Nov-16
Bowbender 03-Nov-16
Pete-pec 03-Nov-16
Single bevel 03-Nov-16
Swift Arrow 03-Nov-16
Knife2sharp 03-Nov-16
elk slayer 03-Nov-16
ELK ELSEWHERE 03-Nov-16
LUNG$HOT 03-Nov-16
Brotsky 03-Nov-16
Scrappy 03-Nov-16
Hackbow 03-Nov-16
ahunter55 03-Nov-16
bigbuckbob 03-Nov-16
txhunter58 03-Nov-16
Brotsky 03-Nov-16
Jack Harris 03-Nov-16
Ace 03-Nov-16
drycreek 03-Nov-16
Knife2sharp 03-Nov-16
bigbuckbob 03-Nov-16
txhunter58 03-Nov-16
Bloodtrail 03-Nov-16
JLBSparks 03-Nov-16
spike78 03-Nov-16
drycreek 03-Nov-16
SBH 03-Nov-16
Ambush 03-Nov-16
txhunter58 04-Nov-16
PaRay 04-Nov-16
otcWill 04-Nov-16
APauls 04-Nov-16
Deebz 04-Nov-16
Knife2sharp 04-Nov-16
bdfrd24v 04-Nov-16
dm/wolfskin 04-Nov-16
Brotsky 04-Nov-16
Ambush 04-Nov-16
Single bevel 04-Nov-16
Big D 04-Nov-16
x-man 04-Nov-16
Scar Finga 04-Nov-16
Swampbuck 04-Nov-16
N8tureBoy 04-Nov-16
Stekewood 04-Nov-16
Mpdh 04-Nov-16
Buffalo1 04-Nov-16
RogBow 04-Nov-16
Too Many Bows Bob 05-Nov-16
txhunter58 05-Nov-16
greenmountain 05-Nov-16
LAWMAN 2 05-Nov-16
Osceola 05-Nov-16
PaRay 05-Nov-16
txhunter58 05-Nov-16
LAWMAN 2 05-Nov-16
TSI 05-Nov-16
Jack Harris 05-Nov-16
Sidekick 05-Nov-16
Ambush 05-Nov-16
MK111 05-Nov-16
TSI 05-Nov-16
itshot 05-Nov-16
TSI 05-Nov-16
itshot 05-Nov-16
TSI 05-Nov-16
TSI 05-Nov-16
TSI 05-Nov-16
itshot 05-Nov-16
Pyrannah 05-Nov-16
itshot 05-Nov-16
Swampbuck 05-Nov-16
Hackbow 05-Nov-16
drycreek 05-Nov-16
Hackbow 05-Nov-16
greenmountain 06-Nov-16
drycreek 06-Nov-16
PECO 06-Nov-16
greenmountain 06-Nov-16
ELK ELSEWHERE 06-Nov-16
Cornfed 77 06-Nov-16
txhunter58 06-Nov-16
Dooner 06-Nov-16
drycreek 06-Nov-16
kota-man 06-Nov-16
Single bevel 06-Nov-16
grizzlyadam 06-Nov-16
Shiloh 06-Nov-16
Pete-pec 06-Nov-16
Stekewood 06-Nov-16
MnM 06-Nov-16
MnM 06-Nov-16
txhunter58 06-Nov-16
Bou'bound 06-Nov-16
tradmt 06-Nov-16
Pete-pec 07-Nov-16
Allheart 07-Nov-16
dm/wolfskin 07-Nov-16
Pat Lefemine 07-Nov-16
tradmt 07-Nov-16
Oakie 07-Nov-16
XMan 07-Nov-16
kota-man 07-Nov-16
tradmt 07-Nov-16
greg simon 07-Nov-16
Shiloh 07-Nov-16
Hackbow 07-Nov-16
Seminole 07-Nov-16
drycreek 07-Nov-16
Shiloh 07-Nov-16
Allheart 07-Nov-16
Deebz 07-Nov-16
johnny k 07-Nov-16
Ambush 07-Nov-16
LAWMAN 2 07-Nov-16
Seminole 08-Nov-16
JSullivan903 08-Nov-16
MA_Bowhunter 08-Nov-16
Oakie 08-Nov-16
Too Many Bows Bob 08-Nov-16
Old School 08-Nov-16
Jack Harris 09-Nov-16
Pat Lefemine 09-Nov-16
tradmt 09-Nov-16
bozo3000 13-Nov-16
From: Pat Lefemine
31-Oct-16

Pat Lefemine's embedded Photo
This game is based on an actual recent recovery that was anything but ordinary.
Pat Lefemine's embedded Photo
This game is based on an actual recent recovery that was anything but ordinary.

Pat Lefemine's Link
This bloodtrail game will challenge conventional wisdom and ask you to make choices that may be extremely risky. I would ask you to see this through to the end.

As always, we invite dialogue and scrutiny. But we require everyone to be respectful when discussing Bloodtrail Challenge 40.

Good luck -

From: txhunter58
31-Oct-16
Hmm. Not sure what happened on mine. I put what I am sure was the correct answer in the bar, then thought about it some more, hit the back button and came back to it in a couple of minutes. Picked the same answer and then clicked enter choice for the first time and it said I had already made a selection. Never got a field that told me what the "right" answer was and how many points awarded. Checked the Top 100 and my name is there with 9 points. Not sure what happened?? Not sure if it entered my answer on the first try or if I am hacked?

From: HuntnBigGame
01-Nov-16
I guess I was thinking outside of the box with the title. And went with a risky questionable shot. Thinking the simple wait and stop was a trick, You got me!!

From: Per48R
01-Nov-16
After 30 years of hunting, I would take a 12 yard chip shot on a walking deer. He looks like he is covering ground. To stop him I will have to interrupt him. Generally that means put him on alert. If he stops he is more likely to see or hear me draw. If he has all 4 feet on the ground he is more able to make an evasive move.

From: drycreek
01-Nov-16
I love this stuff !

From: N8tureBoy
01-Nov-16
I only see question #1. The "challenge" seems to be figuring out how to access the rest of the quiz, if it even exists...

From: drycreek
01-Nov-16
N8, patience.......all will be revealed in time by the Grand Poobah, the Bloodmaker in Chief..............

From: buckshot
01-Nov-16

buckshot's embedded Photo
Mature cow elk taken this year at 20 yards.
buckshot's embedded Photo
Mature cow elk taken this year at 20 yards.
As a traditional shooter I always want the very best odds I can get or don't shoot. So far the test has been common sense. C'mon AZ guys, think hard about ethical shooting.

From: bigbuckbob
02-Nov-16
So challenge #2 - I was torn between C and D because it appears C would catch the back of the front leg bone and the deer appears to be turned slightly away. I would actually aim slightly behind C so I chose D because it looks like it would be just ahead of the diaphragm and therefore miss the leg bone, catch at least one lung, possibly 2 and get a clean passthrough. Answer C would end up in the opposite side leg bone, no passthrough in my opinion. I didn't like either C or D 100%

From: txhunter58
02-Nov-16
Bob, I too used to go farther back to try and miss the leg bone. But C is really not anywhere near a leg bone. It is an illusion. Find a picture with just the skeleton and you will see that the pocket behind the shoulder joint and directly above the elbow is really the sweet spot.

From: PECO
02-Nov-16
I did question 1 yesterday, and can not go any further. What's the trick?

From: Brotsky
02-Nov-16
Anyone else cringe anytime they hit submit on Pat's trickery edition questions?

From: PECO
02-Nov-16
I went back and was able to get the second question. "C" was an easy choice for me.

From: ahunter55
02-Nov-16
Having bowhunted 60 years now (I started in 1956) killed my 1st in 1958 & I'd do the walking all day long at that distance once he's passed. I would not want to chance alerting him in any way by trying to stop him that close.. Actually, he would have gotten a pass from me anyway.. I seem to do much better in real life than on these blood trail quizzes but like doing them..

From: drycreek
02-Nov-16
Brotsky....yeah, me ! But that's the fun part of it ! One and two were a piece of cake. Three, well, I had to watch that video four times to be sure I was seeing what I thought I was seeing.

From: 12yards
02-Nov-16
3 for 3 so far! I got to admit, I cringe every time I hit the submit button though.

BTW Pat, did you saw your arrow shafts with a hacksaw?

From: Hackbow
02-Nov-16
I also chose the incorrect answer on #1, and would do so again based upon my personal experiences with alert/non-alert deer. But...I have zero problem with the answer deemed correct and figured I'd be wrong. Clues #2 & 3 were pretty straight forward. I'm guessing it'll get more challenging from here.

From: HerdManager
02-Nov-16
Sometimes I am 99% sure I have the correct answer, but I sit there and can't bring myself to hit the submit button. I've been burned too many times!!!

3 for 3 so far.............

From: Pat Lefemine
02-Nov-16
There are no tricks or wordplay in this challenge. It will get interesting very soon.

From: RED ONE
02-Nov-16
To answer more questions, click on clue # to the right of page. you are only allowed one per day

From: Bob H in NH
02-Nov-16
When it comes to opinion things, like shoot em walking or wait til they stop, I've learned to think "what would Pat do?" :-)

From: greg simon
02-Nov-16
Damn it! I only got two right before I missed one, there goes my trophy!

From: tradmt
02-Nov-16
"There are no tricks or word play in this challenge"

There's the first one. :)

From: itshot
02-Nov-16
me &you both, greg

videos need to be viewed on large screen, not dumbphone

i imagine same goes for bloodtrail pics

From: Per48R
02-Nov-16
I there any way to have the correct answers not be visable?

From: itshot
02-Nov-16
uhhhh, turn your phone

but even then stuff "hidden"....still

From: Dr. Deer
02-Nov-16
In the video for Q3, the arrow seems to deflect to the left and pass through both lungs. It looked as if it hit in the pocket, albeit a bit low, and went out the other shoulder. How the arrow does that and doesn't hit the left lung, I don't know... For me, the shot is only about 2" right of being a heart shot

From: ahunter55
02-Nov-16
DR. Deer. I only got a 3 on #3 but I am with you on the close heart shot.

From: DRR324
02-Nov-16
I think that shot hit the backside of the heart and deflected into the right lung. My answer was revealed differently and got my first "0"...

From: dg72A
03-Nov-16
These videos are crap to see.... buy a good camera, Pat.

From: PECO
03-Nov-16
I got the correct answer, but had a hard time. I really wanted to say, with the way that arrow passed through, that it deflected left and caught both lungs.

From: bigbuckbob
03-Nov-16
OK, so #4 says you're concerned about the shot placement, and it's a one lung shot and no rain for the next 90 minutes. Also says the bloodtrail only went for 30 yards, so why not wait the 90 minutes to make sure the deer dies and then start the slow stalk for the deer? The rain won't wash out a trail that doesn't exist. I don't think it's trick questions or statements, just the way you interrupt the statements and questions.

From: elkmtngear
03-Nov-16
IMHO...if it's truly a one-lunger, and you bump that buck, and it rains...goodbye!

From: Bowbender
03-Nov-16
Definitely appears to be one lung hit, good blood, chance of rain in the next hour and a half. I'll take my three points and wait the 90 minutes. I've bumped one lungers and it wasn't good.

From: Pete-pec
03-Nov-16
Bigbuckbob, it says possibility of rain for next 90 minutes, meaning it could rain at any time, and for as long as 90 minutes. I believe you misread it, and thought no rain for 90?

From: Single bevel
03-Nov-16
I said to wait all night. 1 lung hits aren't always fatal. I've made the mistake of pursuing 1 lungers too soon in the past. The buck bedded down nearby and would have (could have) died in that bed. But I jumped him and could never pick up the blood trail after that. I found the skull 2 years later. I'll make a pitch for Luminol. No need to worry about rained-out blood trails with that stuff.

From: Swift Arrow
03-Nov-16
Me too Bowbender, same deal. Enjoy it so far though.

From: Knife2sharp
03-Nov-16
Well, armpit or shoulder hits will bleed real good from the start because the leg is constantly moving. I knew I would get question #4 wrong, regardless of what I selected, because making the decision when to take up the blood trail is so subjective. I was taking the 'chance of rain' to not be a factor, since a chance of rain is typically a low percentage. I would've looked at the hourly forecast through the next morning. But I chose to come back in the morning. I do understand why some pursue at night, but on iffy shots you don't have the benefit of being able to effectively scan the area up ahead. Getting answer #2 right, you already foresee a difficult recovery. I thought the rule of thumb was to wait at least one hour to take up any trail. You are only waiting 30 minutes and think by just trying to be quiet will be fine?

From: elk slayer
03-Nov-16
Rain or no rain. You bump that deer and he is GONE!!!

03-Nov-16
Those are the gayest fletchings I've ever seen

From: LUNG$HOT
03-Nov-16
I agree, rain or no rain, I'm waiting 90 minutes after watching the video of a one lung hit.

From: Brotsky
03-Nov-16
I wait the 90 minutes or until the rain starts if it comes in sooner than predicted. There is absolutely nothing to gain by going now. The signs are good but you know you are dealing with a one lung hit from the video. This quiz is obviously how Pat would proceed according to his opinion, but on this question I think you will find the majority of us disagree. This isn't a democracy though so I'll take my 3 point lump!

From: Scrappy
03-Nov-16
I got four right and agree with the decision but I would add that I would go real slow and quite and let the blood trail tell what my next move would be. Does anybody think that shot could have clipped the heart as well.

From: Hackbow
03-Nov-16
With 30 mins of waiting already, steady blood for at least 30 yds and possible rain, I agreed with correct answer. I do agree you could move the deer, but chances are it won't blow out hard if you're moving real slowly. Also, if it is still alive it will more than likely be feeling very woosey and lying down, aiding in the wounds clotting. If bumped and moved slowly enough, you may be able to get more blood on the ground.

Tough situations are tough because there is seldom an easy decision. I purposely pushed a gut/muscle hit deer one time instead of backing out overnight due to warm temps and hunting in big woods. Had blood on the ground for just under 800 yds before jumping it again and finishing it off at 1100 (GPS verified).

From: ahunter55
03-Nov-16
In real life & hundreds of blood trails in 60 years I wait at least an hour unless I see them drop.. 90 min. on this one for me AND I would have thought clip the heart also.. 4 for 18.. 3 is my number on 3 of em but then a 9 on where to put that arrow. I guess I do it right sometimes.

From: bigbuckbob
03-Nov-16
glad I'm not the only who said to wait at least the 90 min. Mis read the 90 min rain part, but doesn't really matter because waiting is the only option in my experience.

From: txhunter58
03-Nov-16
With rain on the way, I chose to take up the trail when I got down ,but hunt as if I was still hunting super slow. I mean 1 step at a time: slow! And I would be using my binoculars instead of my eyes. Will be the wrong answer some of the time, and it might prove to be wrong this time, but we will see.

That said, I would add another choice: wait an additional 30 minutes (1 hour total), then hit the trail hoping to beat the rain.

From: Brotsky
03-Nov-16
txhunter, that would have been an excellent choice. I would have actually preferred an answer with wait 60 minutes. That would give you 30 minutes before the expected rain. You should know in 30 minutes time if you are dealing with a dead buck or if you need to re-evaluate.

From: Jack Harris
03-Nov-16
I am with Brotsky 100%

From: Ace
03-Nov-16
I answer these things with what I would do, vs what I think the right answer is. I said wait the 90 min. Way more deer lost by going too early than too late.

From: drycreek
03-Nov-16
I think txhunter58 had it right also, but I probably would have done exactly what the answer I chose said, take up the trail. With that bloodtrail, and not knowing exactly where the deer was hit ( arrows do strange things once inside an animal ), I would expect to find that deer in 100 yd. or less. Knowing the exit was probably low, since the shooter was in a tree, I would be looking for the blood to keep on coming. Following slowly, if the blood trail " dried up ", I might change my mind and wait a little longer.

But WTH, I'm four for four, so I ain't bitchin' ! As weshunts said," Better to be lucky than good !"

From: Knife2sharp
03-Nov-16
Regardless of how fast I walk, I can't take two steps at a time. I guess I could try hopping through the woods.

From: bigbuckbob
03-Nov-16
I think where you hunt has a lot to do with the answer. If txhunter is from Texas he may be in a more open space environment where seeing the deer is a viable option, whereas here in CT we have thick woods where seeing 30 yards ahead is about the limit. Again, if there's not blood trail after the 30 yards the rain doesn't matter. Wait for me.

From: txhunter58
03-Nov-16
In the area I hunt, it is live oak thickets and thick cedar. Most places you can see 30-50 yards at most. But with 7-8x binocs, you can still use them to see into the thickets. And as others say, if the blood trail peters out, then back off.

From: Bloodtrail
03-Nov-16
Ace, you make a valid point. I answer the questions the way I would think Pat would want them interpreted.....and I usually get them correct. If I answered the way you really should, I would get them wrong and be considered a Bowsite loser. :(

I wish Pat would do a blood trail challenge where you don't know if the deer is dead (we obviously all know this deer is dead). And I wish his answer choices were in line with how most of us would treat an actual blood trail.

From: JLBSparks
03-Nov-16
Screwed myself on #4. I didn't see the rain in the forcast bit and answered wait three hours.

-Joe

From: spike78
03-Nov-16
I chose the right answer because Slick Tricks are so sharp a shot to an ear tip would bleed them out ha. Kidding but damn their sharp!

From: drycreek
03-Nov-16
bigbuckbob In Texas, we have every type of terrain imagineable. S Texas brush so thick the game trails look like tunnels. Central Texas where you may be in thick cedars or more open live oaks, or live oak motts almost as thick as the cedars. W Texas where you can see for miles, N Texas can be a little of both, and E Texas ( where I hunt ), pine thickets and yaupon holly thicker than hair on a dog's back or small woodlots and pasture mixed, and creek and river bottoms with tall oaks and a clear understory. Sometimes you only have to move a couple hundred yards to find an entirely different type of cover. Makes for an interesting track job sometimes !

From: SBH
03-Nov-16
No way is it a good idea to get on a blood trail of any animal that soon if you know the hit was not ideal. I've lost too many that died but we never found them cause we got on the trail too soon and bumped em. You have 90 mins so why the hell would you get on the blood trail with only 30 mins on that kind of a hit??

From: Ambush
03-Nov-16
Score me 3, 3, 9 and 9 points.

I chose to let the buck pass then shoot him walking. Then I would have shot him farther back and higher [answer A].

Did Pat say how high the treestand was? I'm very seldom less than twenty feet and usually about twentyfive.

From: txhunter58
04-Nov-16
" You have 90 mins so why the hell would you get on the blood trail with only 30 mins on that kind of a hit??"

But that is not what he said. He said the rain was going to start within the next 90 minutes. I interpret that to mean it could be sooner.

From: PaRay
04-Nov-16
I misinterpreted Question 4 as well. I thought it meant there was a chance of rain starting in 90 minutes. I'll stick with my original answer of waiting 90 minutes

From: otcWill
04-Nov-16
I' made almost the exact same hit, got one lung, gave the deer about 6hrs, jumped him, found him alive the next day, and killed him with a follow up. After the first shot he only went about 80 yds. This is my reasoning behind looking the next day; rain or no rain.

From: APauls
04-Nov-16
I wonder is the "correct answer" really just one man's opinion? Or how is the correct answer developed? Love it.

Anyways, I'm still wait until the rain starts and get after it. Believe it or not forecast has been wrong before.

From: Deebz
04-Nov-16
I understand the rain issue to be a chance of rain, but it isn't until 90 minutes from now...I went with wait the 90 minutes and go from there...

I almost chose to take up the trail right away (which I definitely would do if I thought the rain was more imminent), but figured it's always better to give the animal as much time as possible to die before taking the chance of pushing him...

Hackbow: my cousin once shot a nice buck through both of the back knees...he was on the ground and I suspect caught a bad case of buck fever...we got my 3 brothers and dad plus my cousin together and tracked the deer for roughly 3 miles over the next several hours...we finally caught up to a deer that was so exhausted after running on 2 1/2 good legs he just stood there while my cousin put a finisher arrow in the sweet spot...definitely some merit to pushing a deer on a hit that you are certain isn't in the vitals....this deer I would definitely want to give as much time as possible to lay down and bleed out though

From: Knife2sharp
04-Nov-16
Well I guess we'll see how going after him after 30 min pans out. I don't recall, but we weren't given the time and when sunset is. My assumption is it was an evening hunt and not too far from sunset at the time based on lighting. But since going after him after 30 minutes rewards 9 points, then I assume that decision plays a roll in how the blood trail ends. If the deer is bumped and not recovered, then it wouldn't even make the BTC, since only the successful recoveries make it.

The problem is, there's only one combination of options that happened during the hunt/recovery and there's no way of knowing how the others would've resulted. I just hope Santa Claus doesn't make an appearance.

From: bdfrd24v
04-Nov-16
Looks like an arterial hit to me and that buck is going to be dead shortly. Could of course be dead wrong like usual on these things!

From: dm/wolfskin
04-Nov-16
Thank goodness we all don't think alike. This blood trailing would be boring.

From: Brotsky
04-Nov-16
I would have done the exact thing in question 5. Recovered a deer earlier this year for a buddy by doing exactly that, and it was the only viable choice on that deer as well. Panned out just fine!

From: Ambush
04-Nov-16
I would definitely push him in this case. If he can lay long enough to quit bleeding he may become one of those bucks that someone shoots (much) later and proves how tough wild animals can be. I'm sitting in a tree right now waiting on a mule deer buck that will likely not show. Hoping to have my own BTC. :)

From: Single bevel
04-Nov-16
It would have been nice to see that radar image before I answered question #4. I'll say it again...Luminol. If you don't know what it is, look it up. Not a gimmick.

From: Big D
04-Nov-16
I had the same scenario a few years back, if you bumped him and he's hurt bad then he won't go far, lay down and die. We did what they suggested and chased that deer for almost 5 miles and finally lost his tracks...it's amazing how far they can run on adrenalin

From: x-man
04-Nov-16
Lots of guys here not understanding what they read. The rain isn't coming 90 minutes from then, it will be occurring "in the next 90 minutes" To me, that means get after it NOW. Or wait and initiate a grid search after the rain.

From: Scar Finga
04-Nov-16
Scrappy, That's what I was thinking! Watching the video the other day the arrow looks to exit in front of the off shoulder, at least to my old eyes... Possible heart shot. Been right so far, at least on this one:/ Scar.

From: Swampbuck
04-Nov-16
#5 I think there should have been some points for two of the other answers. I chose to wait for the rain to stop. Hunting the swamps of Florida, chances are the animals your hunting are going to go through water. There is other sign to look for besides blood. Mark the spot you jumped him at, note the direction he was traveling in, he will bed down again. Especially knowing he's hurt bad and bleeding good, I think persistent after the rain will pay off. Just my 2cents

From: N8tureBoy
04-Nov-16
I already posted the info for this book on my state forum, but peeps who enjoy this quiz would also enjoy the book "Dead on!" by John Jeanneney. isbn 978-0-9725089-3-3. Easy read, and written by a guy who has used dogs to track over 1000 wounded deer in NY. With hindsight being 20/20, the information he provides about shot location and how long to wait based on different variables disproves folklore and several old wives tales. It is written for both gun and bow hunters but info is well worth it.

Based on the info in the book, I agree with the "correct" answer to push the buck in Q# 5.

From: Stekewood
04-Nov-16
This is a perfect example of when a good tracking dog is the best choice. Wait til the morning, take the dog in and find the buck within 200 yards. Visible blood isn't required and wet tracking conditions for the dog are ideal. Not that it's an option here and besides that it would make the challenge, and the discussion, very boring!

From: Mpdh
04-Nov-16
I got 9 on every question except for the one on shot placement. But how did I get 0 for picking c? Even if it's not the perfect shot I don't think it merits a 0.

From: Buffalo1
04-Nov-16
Like Trump said- "This blood trail challenge is rigged ! They've all been."

From: RogBow
04-Nov-16
Yeah, chase the deer to death, yes we can.

05-Nov-16
We hunt very differently.

TMBB

From: txhunter58
05-Nov-16
The other factor for me is that down here in Texas to leave a deer overnight means a 90% chance the meat will spoil. If that happens the whole hunt was a bust. And maybe a dog could find the deer after the rain, but if it rains 3-4 inches in a swamp, not so sure that would be the case

05-Nov-16
I am doing fairly well on this one but it brings in to focus that you can only guess the right answer while living it then if you guess wrong you will have to make decisions based on your last one. If I suspected I saw the arrow hit as in the video I would have checked for blood after coming down. Seeing the trail I would have waited for the first rain drop before starting out assuming plenty of daylight. The easiest tracking job is one where you walk up to a very dead deer close to where you took the shot. If you take more time the odds are higher for this result.

From: LAWMAN 2
05-Nov-16
Can't believe the right answer to question 5 is what it is...I wouldn't do this on a fair weather day with no chance of rain..

From: Osceola
05-Nov-16
What was the answer to question 5? I never saw the answer on my computer screen and can't figure out where to go to find it?

From: PaRay
05-Nov-16
Concur with Lawman2

From: txhunter58
05-Nov-16
"...I wouldn't do this on a fair weather day with no chance of rain.. "

Of course you wouldn't, and neither would anyone else. On a clear day, you back off and give him time, but because of the rain, you had to make a hard choice. Push him or back off and know that you will just have to do a grid search after the rain and possibly lose the meat. I would absolutely go after him with the conditions stated. Either choice could be right or wrong, but if I think I have a better chance of recovering the meat in edible condition, I am going that direction.

From: LAWMAN 2
05-Nov-16
The most logical answer is the wrong one.. So in today's world we push deer till they die? What a crock!

From: TSI
05-Nov-16

From: Jack Harris
05-Nov-16
Trick question. I thought there was no legal option after sunset ? Anxious to learn what that is. Any use of weapon would be considered deer jacking / Poaching.

From: Sidekick
05-Nov-16
I'm sticking with A on shot location. This is presuming the deer is still at 12 yards like in question #1. From an average tree stand height, shot C seems to low & is a 1 lung shot. Where A should get both lungs & liver. Now let's put option E 1/2 way between A & C.

From: Ambush
05-Nov-16
Totally agree with Sidekick, above. But then we wouldn't have this BTC, it would just be another dead deer.

From: MK111
05-Nov-16
I enjoy the comments. I'm 6 for 6 so far. Not bad for a 50 yrs of hunting deer.

From: TSI
05-Nov-16

From: itshot
05-Nov-16

From: TSI
05-Nov-16

From: itshot
05-Nov-16

From: TSI
05-Nov-16

From: TSI
05-Nov-16

From: TSI
05-Nov-16

From: itshot
05-Nov-16

From: Pyrannah
05-Nov-16
hmm what the heck i miss?

From: itshot
05-Nov-16
nuthin

From: Swampbuck
05-Nov-16
Damn, leave this site for 2 minutes to eat dinner and I missed something. Must have been good cause it's gone

From: Hackbow
05-Nov-16
I love the BTC's. It's where the Always & Never Hunting Club meets to discuss the failings and poor ethics of those who have yet to evolve their hunting to simple, formulaic methods by which all outcomes are known ahead of time. Pat, I'm afraid you do not meet A&NH Club requirements. ;o)

From: drycreek
05-Nov-16
Hack, I read that three times and still didn't understand it. Of course, I went to a school so small that there were two grades in each room.

From: Hackbow
05-Nov-16
drycreek, just pokin' a little fun in the direction of those who "always" wait and "never" deviate from a predetermined plan. One thing I've learned from tracking deer for a couple years is they don't all act out the same script.

06-Nov-16
Always and never statements are usually false. As my third grade teacher said that there is an exception to every rule...... With some exceptions.

From: drycreek
06-Nov-16
Gotcha Hack and agree !

Green mountain, one of my teachers once told me that " they said " and " I heard " were the two biggest liars in the world. Words of wisdom !

From: PECO
06-Nov-16
Looking at the pictures on Q7, I have to say the right lung was center punched. Sure, after you open it up, you can see what really happened. I was 100% until Q7, now I fell for the trickery which most of you speak!

06-Nov-16
From the entry wound and the exit wound I concluded the hit looked much better in the video.

06-Nov-16
Pat, how did you dispatch the deer or did it finally die at the time you found it?

From: Cornfed 77
06-Nov-16
I don't think pushing a buck because of rain is smart at all. Just because its going to rain doesn't mean your deer will cooperate and die faster. If its a questionable hit you need to back out and wait. Basically this looks like the guy got lucky and had actually got enough of the deer to slow it down. I bet the deer was bumped more then once and not noticed. I have never had a wounded deer go 200yds before bedding the first time without me bumping him once or twice. Backing out before the rain and waiting would have either ended in a dead deer within 100yds or so, or no deer because it wasn't as good of a hit as you had thought. Waiting allows you to come back and do a body search in good daylight. You know the general direction the animal went and finding it should not be much of a problem in daylight. In this situation the hunter was extremely lucky the deer started bleeding again otherwise it would have been lost.

From: txhunter58
06-Nov-16
I find it really hard to believe that this buck bled this much from only a lung hit. He was bleeding from the exit wound on the left side, and I doubt the right lung blood would have bled that much blood on the ground. I suspect their "autopsy" techniques didn't show it, but suspect the carotid or one of the closely associated blood vessels were cut by the broadhead. Once the deer bled out, it would be hard to prove unless you did painstaking and slow dissection.

From: Dooner
06-Nov-16
Like many other here, I would have let him sit until it started raining. I don't completely trust forecasts. Once it started raining, for me, its game on. So far that's the question I missed.

I'm surprised that the heart wasn't at least nicked.

From: drycreek
06-Nov-16
From the exit hole, I was sure the right lung was centered, but hey, I was wrong once before ! I knew my perfect score wouldn't last forever........l..

From: kota-man
06-Nov-16
Yep, 100% until #7 and I was 50/50 with my decision and guessed wrong...Dang...

From: Single bevel
06-Nov-16
Damn! I was torn on clue 7. Picked the wrong one.

From: grizzlyadam
06-Nov-16
How do you go from "what do you do when you find him not dead" to the autopsy without any explanation. Hope we get to hear how that went down.

From: Shiloh
06-Nov-16
I assume the amount of blood was due to the brisket exit. Those always leak excessively.

That better Pete;)

From: Pete-pec
06-Nov-16
Too many clues here for people who haven't guessed already. If anything, discuss the question and say you disagree, but don't outright tell those pondering what the correct answer is?

From: Stekewood
06-Nov-16
Haha! If it's so important to someone that they get the answers right that they have to cheat by reading the discussion before answering a question, let the poor desperate soul have their perfect score!

From: MnM
06-Nov-16
guessed 2 lungs figuring tip of left lung was cut

From: MnM
06-Nov-16
guessed 2 lungs figuring tip of left lung was cut

From: txhunter58
06-Nov-16
Yep, pretty simple Pete. Don't ever read the discussion unless you are up to date on answering the clues. Spoiler alert is pretty much implied

From: Bou'bound
06-Nov-16
That is a really nice NY deer

From: tradmt
06-Nov-16
Holy crap I might ace one for once!

From: Pete-pec
07-Nov-16
It is the millennial age lol.

From: Allheart
07-Nov-16
Gotta love some responses. I think it is pretty obvious of why there is no info about dispatching the deer. Finishing off a deer like that is best kept a private matter. Its just an ugly part of hunting that happens sometimes.

From: dm/wolfskin
07-Nov-16
Man I like all the whining and I bet Pat does too.

From: Pat Lefemine
07-Nov-16
dm/wolfskin,

I'm used to it. Doesn't bother me at all. Some guys go overboard but in all honesty that's part of the fun.

BTW - I will post a commentary on this recovery tomorrow.

From: tradmt
07-Nov-16
100%. Has to be the first I have ever pulled that off.

From: Oakie
07-Nov-16
What I love about these is the hindsight.

Here's comes my cheese and wine. I was 'points' doomed from the get go. I would have taken the 'wrong' shot and this buck would have died within sight and we wouldn't have had a bloodtrail challenge. I'll take a 12 yard broadside walking shot all day long. Calm deer that can't hear anything but his own steps. TWELVE YARDS! I'm sorry but if you can't double lung a deer at 12 yards walking, you don't need to be bowhunting. Instead it's suggested that that is the "wrong" shot to take. And in hindsight, we see that the "correct" answer to question 1 resulted in a hurried shot on a severe quartering away narrow target and as a result, everything else went WRONG! Love it!

Great job on the recovery of a poor hit deer.

From: XMan
07-Nov-16
darn, I wish I read the very last question before I answered the previous one, would have definitely impacted my answer. Oh well, close but no cigar :)

From: kota-man
07-Nov-16
Man...Last two clues I was 50/50 on which way to go and guessed wrong on both.

From: tradmt
07-Nov-16
Even at 12 yards a lot of folks would end up with a gut shot. The right answer is the right answer for the question asked IMO.

From: greg simon
07-Nov-16
I only missed one! Can we have a bonus question?

From: Shiloh
07-Nov-16
The quartering shot wasn't a big issue. In fact, it was a good angle. Pat just didn't aim for the desired exit hole. It's hard to back off of that shoulder pocket when that's what has been ingrained in your head forever.

From: Hackbow
07-Nov-16
I chose the incorrect answer to #1 and even after all results are in, would do so again. Like several others, I would prefer a walking shot at a non-alert deer. That the distance is only 12 yds makes it practically a chip shot. I got all the other answers correct and this might be my highest scoring BTC yet. Regardless of my score on this or any other BTC, I had fun and appreciate the time you take to document, think through and create them.

From: Seminole
07-Nov-16
I am with you tradmt. First time for a perfect score... :)

From: drycreek
07-Nov-16
I blew my perfect score on the next to last question, but I still think this is the best I've done so far. I thoroughly enjoy these and I'm ready for another anytime the blood-trailer-in-chief decides to do another.

From: Shiloh
07-Nov-16
This was my first and I enjoyed it as well!

From: Allheart
07-Nov-16
Easy on the last question. Distance to first bed was roughly 270 yds. Follow the track further and you can see that is goes for about three times that distance.

From: Deebz
07-Nov-16
I figured too much blood to not have clipped some arteries...I went with lung & carotid...2nd one I second guessed and missed out on this time around.

Good one...it really was pretty straight forward for being a unique shot placement

From: johnny k
07-Nov-16
i got a 6 on #7, but could never see the correct answer. that's the only one i missed too, dangit! this was a fun one.

From: Ambush
07-Nov-16
I was too lazy to go back to the previous clues to calculate the distance. So first two questions I got three's and I'd still choose those if presented, and last one was also a three. Not sure why I got any for #8 as I was wrong. Total score of 54. Fun game. And maybe I'm even a little smarter.

From: LAWMAN 2
07-Nov-16
I calculated and was way off...guess you gotta have two accounts to get all the right answers...

From: Seminole
08-Nov-16
I actually enjoyed this one. I have only had to double down and chase a buck once due to impending rain, so I kind of knew what needed to be done. Living in Florida, rain is a constant. Well done Pat.

From: JSullivan903
08-Nov-16
I too enjoyed this BTC. Got 63 total. I agree with most of the answers. On #4 I chose to wait 90 minutes, which I would still do. I have lost a dear due to impatience and won't make that mistake again, as we all know it is heart breaking and frustrating. My wait time would have been determined by the rain and I would have waited until the rain was just about on top of me. Also, while i waited, i would have called my 20 year+ hunting buddy and had him bring a dog, as we have both done in the past. Kind of had to guess on #8 and chose 512 instead of 739. No legend/scale on the map, so anything but a guess wasn't possible (EDIT- I see now that I could have estimated based on the distance to the first bed, but an estimate is still a guess IMO. Good thing my HuntX maps all have a scale/legend ;). All in all, fun stuff.

From: MA_Bowhunter
08-Nov-16
Pat, nice job. Great example to put together a challenging Bloodtrail Challenge!

From: Oakie
08-Nov-16
Tradmt you're just saying that because you got 100%! Oh and because you shoot a trad bow. I wouldn't take a walking shot with 180 fps either. ;-)

08-Nov-16
Glad it worked out for you. I would have handled it differently.

TMBB

From: Old School
08-Nov-16
Thanks for doing this Pat, I enjoy the "challenge". Missed #7 and that was it. Was torn between 2 and I chose the wrong one. From the picture, I still say it was a 50/50 guess. Some people take this like it's personal...ease up.

--Mitch

From: Jack Harris
09-Nov-16
11/7 posted "BTW - I will post a commentary on this recovery tomorrow. "

Anybody know where it is?

From: Pat Lefemine
09-Nov-16
Jack, my apologies. I'm hunting and we got distracted last night. I will post it soon.

From: tradmt
09-Nov-16
The speed isn't going to matter if the shooter is familiar with the bow and has practiced the shot.

The question really has nothing to do with whether one is capable of a walking shot or not, he simply asks how you can lessen the chance of wounding the animal and gives you four choices to pick from. There is only one best answer.

From: bozo3000
13-Nov-16
I do believe some people need to go back and read the red box at the beginning that says "PLEASE READ". Thanks Pat this was a fun blood trail challenge. And by the way congrats on the great deer so far this year

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