Do you aim low
Whitetail Deer
I'm new to treestand hunting for whitetails. I have hunted elk for many years and am using the same setup for whitetails. I have had 6 pass through shots on elk, but can't seem to punch through a whitetail. I'm 0 for 3 on getting the arrow to pass through. What am I doing wrong? Do you purposely need to aim below the chest to account for them dropping to run when they are spooked by the sound of the shot? All the shots were 20 to 30 yards and must have been slightly high from what I saw, but I don't think more than half way up the body. I can't figure it out. It surprises me that any hit isn't enough to punch through these little MS whitetails.
How fast are your arrows? Are you killing the whitetails, but just not getting pass-throughs? Are you hitting bone?
I don't shoot past 25 yds at WT.
Colorado, KS, Midwest in general, I aim right where I want to hit them.
I have hunted the south and those dudes can jump string. I've killed maybe 8 deer down there, small sample but I remember they were high strung. Theyre hunted a ton.
Evidently they were not recovered or you would know exactly where you hit them. You will almost always get pass throughs through both sides of the ribs, but lots of times if you hit the off shoulder, your arrow will stop there, especially if you hit bone. More info needed.
You are hitting the deer through a lot of muscle and bone if you are hitting them high. I take it the way it was written that you have yet to find one after shooting it. Whitetail deer in the east and south are a DIFFERENT animal than an elk. They look for reasons to be scared and react to ANY noise. When a deer crouches to spring, it loads up a LOT of rippled muscle on the top side of the shoulder and back area to do so. That movement is killing you arrows momentum. And, yes unless a buck is chasing a doe and oblivious, I will always aim at the bottom of the kill zone. ANY doe at any time, bottom of the chest line. They are so quick.
FWIW, if they aren't totally getting out of the way at 20-30 yards, they are likely not reacting as much to the bow as the are that hissing missile coming at them. People have bashed me for years when I state how important it is to have quiet arrow's in flight. All I'll say is they don't hunt the same kind of whitetail I do. A good rule I've come up with for me to try and determine what happened when they react badly to my shot is that A deer 20 and less is likely reacting to the bow noise. Farther out, they delay at release until the arrow almost enters the view. Proving the string noise didn't alarm them. the arrow hissing towards it did. I use to have dozens of homemade hunting videos to prove that.
So, quieten your bow, your arrows as much as possible, and aim low. And PRAY. God Bless
not knowing what type of BH you are using but mechanicals seems to not penetrate as well as a fixed BH. ( at least from the hunting videos I have watched.) From a tree stand and using my 55# recurve bow and a 64# compound bow, I achieve a pass through with both using a fixed bh. Never have I used a mechanical bh.
also, aiming lower at the heart is a good idea, if they do coil down at the sound of the bow. As suggested, if you are hitting high and trying to punch through the upper ribs, or hit the opposite leg bone,this can cause your arrow not to pass through.
Perhaps you are hitting high because you are not bending at the waist in the treestand? If you were getting pass thru's on elk, but are not on whitetail there is something wrong with shot placement.
First of all let me say I can't say anything about deer below the Mason-Dixon line. So I speak only to Midwestern Whitetial. I would take others word I over mine with more experience but I have done my fair share of videoing and I think it depends on arrow speed, region of the country, General alertness, and especially yardage. For the average newer generation compound 60lbs+ Or 250fps+ it's going to take about 25 yards for Whitetail an unalert deer to react in the Midwest. If you are using a compound 25 to 30 yards is the yardage most likely to be ducked. Anything outside 35 yards will likely not get any reaction unless the deer is looking right at you. I always aim slightly below center regardless of the yardage but I would recommend aiming right above the white belly hair at 25-30. Now I shoot a recurve bow exclusively. The slower to trajectory makes a big difference. I find that 18 to 25 yards is the worst yardage for reaction. In most cases anything outside 25 yards doesn't normally get a reaction or if it does the animal is back up from the duck by the time the arrow reaches it. So I aim for where the white of the belly meets the brown hair at 18 to 25 yards with my recurve. I have found this to be for pretty foolproof.
TBM always had to aim low. Maybe your deer are like his.
I know that Pat LeFemine used to have his bow shoot two inches low,...on purpose.
I agree with MichaelArnette's yardage comments. I shoot a "slow" compound and the shot I want is 5-15 yards. I'd rather shoot 35-45 than 25.
I have hunted pressured Alabama deer all my life. A pressured deer is not always high strung every second of the day. They do relax some. I have shot under, over and every where in between. Experience has taught me to read the deer. If it is nervous I might even aim under the deer versus a deer that is acting unaware of danger. I always aim low. Like Pat, I sight my compound 2 inches low. Bending at the waist is a must. Your anchor point will change and you will not even notice it if you don't practice this method. Hide in the tree or get a little bit higher and sit still. even in a tree sudden movements will get you busted. Pressured deer look up! Get close! I almost get too close sometimes. Most of my shots average 15 yards. Don't cross the trail or trails you intend to hunt before you get to your ambush point or you will get busted and never even know it from your scent left behind. Scent will stay on the ground much longer than you think. I have a trail cam video of a mature buck following my scent all the way to the camera 4 days after I hung the camera. I have a whole new respect for a deer's nose. Use RAZOR sharp broad heads. One other thing, learn to be a hard tracker. I have found deer that were bad hit's and lost deer that I know were good hit's. Never give up until you have to. "Good luck"
Amount of sting jump
1. Southeastern Deer........2" down on relaxed deer 4" if they are wondering what's up....it CAN go crazier than that on a really close shot. 2. Coues....2" on the four I've taken 3.Midwest Bucks in the Rut/Mulies....1" but often they do not drop any,even after being stopped with a hollar or whistle
Also realize that the spheroidal shape of a deer's side from elevation will artificially place their midline higher due to parrallax.So sometimes on a close steep shot 2" low is actually closer to their midline geometrically
Read the animal....a stiff legged Midwest Buck who has been rutting all night just about is a backstop....A southeastern doe with fawns at close range sniffing the air is a beast....ha
Another example of just how tuff the mighty whitetail is to kill.
Good information. There is still a faction of people who believe their bows are fast enough to overcome a jumpy whitetail at close range.
One thing that also has to be taken into consideration is if you have crystal clear quiet conditions the deer will react much more too.
I've been hunting southern whitetail for over 40 years and they will absolutely drop at the shot an amazing distance sometimes. It's very logical actually. The speed of sound is 1100 fps, a fast bow shoots 300 fps. You do the math. I believe there's more to it than the deer's reaction; much of the fault of shooting high is on the hunter. Most hunters draw their bow and lower the sight pins from above the animal to the kill zone. Adrenaline causes many to shoot shortly after they see hair in the peep, sending their arrow above the lungs. My guess is 75% of tree stand misses on whitetails are high. I'm guilty as well. The best remedy I've found is drawing your bow low and coming UP from below the animal to the lower third kill zone. If you shoot too soon you're still in the zone and if he drops you're much less likely to shoot high.
I aim at the heart level. I'd rather shoot under a deer than hit too high and not find it. If you aim at the heart level, even if your deer jumps the string you'll still have a dead animal in short order.
Earlier this fall my son and I stalked a whitey doe from 240 to 27 yds before she spotted us. I knew the game would be over soon so I told him to stand and draw at the same time. I instructed him to put his 25 yd pin right at the very bottom of her armpit. (I figured she'd bolt and he'd never even get the shot off) she was facing us head bobbing at the time. When he stood and drew, she turned completely broadside but gave him the 2 seconds he needed to settle the pin. He released and even on high alert she did not drop an inch. His arrow sailed two inches below her. Had she done what she was supposed to (drop a couple inches), the shot would have been perfect. Just goes to show deer don't always follow the script but a miss is always better than a wound.
I'm with Crusader dad. Hold as low as will kill, and you have a margin
Aim for the heart, if it doesn't duck and you hit where you were aiming you have a dead deer in sight, if the deer ducks you will still double lung the deer and have a deer down in very short order. Better to miss low than hit them high above the spine.
Most morning hunts, before I pack up and leave, I take the one arrow in my quiver with a field point on it, pick a leaf about 20-25 yds away, and shoot it. This should tell you if you have an issue with bending at the waist, shooting high, etc. I shoot sitting down a lot, so I try both sitting and standing. Mostly I am hitting that leaf, but yet I tend to hit deer higher than I wanted to. So I am often working with light blood trails but dead deer. Luckily I can say I am a pretty good, or at least very determined tracker. I am working on remembering to aim top of heart.
I cannot recall ever hitting a deer "too low", but have hit a number "too high" through the years... I know for a fact that all but one of these ended up surviving just fine, albeit led to some serious heartache and sleepless nights for me though. I've seen some deer some unreal stuff at the drop of the string! (Two does come to mind.)
I now purposely aim for the heart and it is part of my shot routine each and every time. A clean miss low is WAY better than a hit high! Good luck.
Not your example, but I've been burned twice hunting too high and shooting too close to the tree. High hits are no good. I'm sure both deer survived, but it makes me sick to think about the injuries.
Not only can they duck, but they can also "whirl". Best to aim a little low in the kill zone, but even that might not save your shot. In my experience, mature does duck and whirl the most, maybe because their bodies are lighter, making them and a little more swift and agile.
I posted the video below on another thread last week, but it's worth taking a look at. The kid's camera is right next to the bow and inside a plywood shooting house, which of course makes the bow sound louder than it really is....but he's shooting an average compound set-up, at a typical velocity, and about a 40 yard shot. Amazing reaction on the part of the buck.....twice!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1rDgQ8TVSs
Stick is right ! I remember vividly two different does shot two weeks apart out of the same tripod. They were each standing about the same spot, and each fell within fifty yards of the other. I aimed right behind the elbow on each and the arrow entered just in front of the hip on both, but I didn't know this until the recovery. I would have bet $100 that each one was hit behind the shoulder. The good thing is, a punctured diaphragm and one lung equals a dead deer pretty quickly. I saw both of them fall.
I like a 15 yard broadside shot, myself, and aim about two inches above the deer's bottom line. I have had enough high hits in the past to know better than to aim at the spot I want to hit. However, many times those shots ended up being lethal spine shots dropping the deer in their tracks, but often requiring a finishing shot. If the arrow goes above spine in backstrap it may very well not pass through, and you can watch your arrow and the deer run off never to be found or seen again. I shoot a very quiet 50# bow of only moderate speed and a 450 grain arrow. I have had deer drop completely below the arrow at 20 to 30 yards shooting a much faster 65# bow in years past. I had to start aiming a lot lower than I wanted to, to eliminate the high hits.
MichaelArnette nailed it.
Thanks for the hints and advice. I have been shooting an arrow before leaving in the morning like someone suggested and I am right where I need to be with that. Two of the three looked no more than half way up the body and I didn't see the 3rd because of a face mask problem. I am probably guilty of thinking the speed and energy is enough to overcome a misplaced shot. They are just so small down here it seems like they should be easier to punch through. The blood trails have been 1/2 mile long over several hours of looking but end up with frustration. I will definitely go for the bottom edge of the kill zone if I get another chance. Shot placement threads for elk always talk about the aiming in line with the leg to catch the opening in the bone where the leg bones angle forward. Can you go back a little further on a whitetail and focus more on the lungs than the heart?
That is WEIRD. I've never had an arrow stay in a whitetail, and I've shot them through the shoulders several times...
FoB, can you give us details about your setup? Deer aren't bulletproof, I've devastated some deer in my day. One I recall was w/ a thunderhead 100 steep quartering away, the exit was the off side shoulder that was pretty much obliterated + and exit hole. I could wrap that leg around the deer, it was toast.
Yes, aiming for the lungs is perfectly lethal and ethical. If you can hit a paper plate you can kill a deer. Something isn't adding up esp if this has happened several times as you claim.
How long after the shot do you pursue your deer? If you are getting marginal hits you may be pushing them.
FOB I bet $100 you are hitting too far forward. Almost any modern day setup will bring a WT down in 60 yards or less if you double lung.
Careful not to aim too low or you'll end up with a on lung only or muscle hit. Mid deer lung shot can quickly become off lung only or No Kill Zone hit if the animal drops a little. Unfortunately I had all 3 of those senerios happen when i was trying the lung shots. Now, I say just aim for the heart and shoot an heavy enough arrow set up that punching through a shoulder blade if needed isn't a concern. I'm sure some will disagree but I think it It gives the best margin of error and tracking tends to be shorter.
