I guess I don't see the point in taking a very long shot at a terrible angle whether it's a doe or a huge buck. In this case he got lucky, but the odds were definitely not in his favor even if he is an accomplished archer. If that was Levi Morgan or Randy Ulmer shooting at a deer that was presenting a better angle at the vitals, I'd be fine with it.
Not a shot I'd take but one he can obviously hit. I'd prefer to see guys like him take that shot over poor shooters taking a broadside shot at 30. A mans gotta now his limitations and they are not the same for everyone.
Good for T-bone. I have no dog in the "long range shooting", argument. This past summer was the first time I had shot at a target past 35 yards, in years.
I'm just glad that I can get close to the animals I kill. If not, I'd most likely have to rely on my wife to kill stuff. :)
Dumb. Shows a lack of respect for the animal IMO. I don't care how good of a shot he is. Actually I just watched a show where he missed a buck standing broadside closer than that doe. Flame away.
Na! when I started the video I thought he was going to shoot the broadside doe but no, he shot at the bedded doe facing and was LUCKY enough to squeeze an arrow just under the deer's chin. There is no doubt in my mind that if he had been just an inch or two higher, and hit the jaw of that deer, we would have never seen this video.
Very bad example of a shot choice and one that he should not be proud of .
"Some shots that may be impossible for some are easy for others..."
I learned (FINALLY) that my limitations do not necessarily apply to others... But a bad idea is a bad idea.
You can be The Best That Ever Was and still do something stupid, and like i tell my boys... No sense winning a Stupid contest just because you know how.
Yeah, that's ridiculous. I don't care how good of a shot you are that was a horrible decision. I must admit that I had the video muted so I didn't have to listen to the typical crap these idiots spew but from what I saw it was bad. Obviously the dude aint starving. How bad do you need to kill a doe? You can't come up with a better piece of footage than that when you have endless amounts of private managed land with pets walking in to feeders or foodplots? I guess I just don't get it. I would only take that shot with a rifle if I had a houseful of kids and they were really hungry. BTW, it looked like he hit about 6 inches left of where he should have. But again, I didn't listen to it so who knows, maybe he was aiming at the point of the shoulder.
Well, I'm glad everyone is so perfect. I think he made a great shot on a difficult shot. Is it something we teach new bowhunters? Probably not. Travis can do it and he knows he can do it so I say nice shot!
I have met him and I think he is one of the nicest most humble guys I have ever met.
I would rather see Travis shoot a frontal doe at 57 yards over 90% of the Trad shooters I know shooting a broadside deer at 15 yards.
I have personally witnessed 3 people in my nearly 30 years of bowhunting that I feel were capable of making an ethical shot with a Trad bow at 15 yards yet Trad guys never are scrutinized for their horrid shooting.
I have no desire to post on the Leatherwall but what I said is 100% true. A Trad bow can be a fantastic tool but in my experience it is a crutch for the majority of those that use them.
" There are bow hunters.... then there are Bow Hunters" ..... I should say some are 'bow shooters' ..... the animal does deserve some 'respect'! ..(jmho)
Bowfreak, plenty of compound shooters should not be taking 20 yard shots, either. Plenty of rifle shooters should not be taking 100 yard shots. I am glad T-bone made the shot, but I don't care how good or nice he is, he shouldn't have. Trad guys suck has nothing to do with this.
Respect? What difference does it make if you kill an animal from 57 yards or 57 inches? The animal doesn't know any difference and your state of mind or ethical stance doesn't make it less dead.
Actually PECO it does. You made my point. Some people can't kill an animal at 15 yards but it's ok if they screw up at 15 yards as that is an acceptable distance to shoot. Yet....a top shelf Archer shooting a stationary animal at 57 yards is unethical.
Dang I was watching the doe on the left thinking he would take the broadside shot. Good shot! I say if you can make a shot scenario work 10 out of 10 then go for it...everyone's abilities are different. ...and as far as a tradbow being a crutch? Well maybe your compound should be called training wheels? I'd like to see you with a tradbow in your hand sometime for a good laugh. I can't help but agree with your assertion that poor accuracy should be reserved for the target butt though regardless of equipment. In my experience tradbow guys are some if the most serious and ethical groups around...not that others aren't but the self limitation attracts people who don't take shortcuts.
I understand the argument that for most folks that's not a good shot. My understanding is this guy isn't most folks though. Should we all be limited to the lowest common denominator with what we do? If that shot is in his wheelhouse why shouldn't he take it? Because others can't/shouldn't? I don't think this "promotes" shots from the ragged edge any more than Bear, Hill and a host of others promoted even lower percentage shots. It was an issue long before this, if a person is inclined to take shots outside his skills.... they are going to take them.
"a few inches and it could have been a disaster...." I'd say that applied to 2/3rd of the stuff I've killed. Small windows, quartering angles, hard ones sometimes. I take the first good shot I KNOW I can make.
WRT to trad..... Shoot a trad bow if you want. More power to ya. But please don't apply your self imposed handicap to what is the VAST majority of bowhunters. Not to mention some of who are capable of some pretty impressive accuracy. It's like the frontal shot argument. (which this was as well) Yeah, if you can't hit a tennis ball every time at 20 yards.... don't take it. My goal is to hit a golf ball every time and I'm not that great a shot.
You are right....you would laugh watching me shoot a Trad bow. I dont have the time nor desire to dedicate for the efficiency required for a trad bow. I am sure the majority of bowsiters who hunt with trad bows are proficient but the majority overall is far from that. I have set 3D ranges many times locally and our trad shooters would get bent when the shots were >15 yards. I have watched groups of 6 walk up to a target at 10-12 yards and half or more would miss the whole target. In reality they sucked so bad that they probably never wounded a deer as they couldn't come close to connecting. At that same club I have witnessed a lot of compound shooters that also shouldn't be shooting at animals. The point is we all have varying degrees of ability and also enjoy different aspects of the hunt. Some love to get close and some say you are close enough at 60 yards.
Ability doesn't factor as much as discernment of the shot. He could be spot on and the doe could still easily effectively block or deflect the shot with her head. Basically the same generally observed rubric that keeps archers from taking head shots.
Great PGA golfers can't hit a 6 iron 200 yards and put it close to the hole, I only hit my 6 iron 160 and am lucky to hit the green. Guess I could criticize Rory Mcllroy and tiger woods for trying it but at some point a guy has to admit that there are people with better skill sets.
Sure that shot could have went wrong if he was off an inch. I just guided a rifle hunter that shot a buck at 25 yards off shooting sticks and had he hit one inch lower it would have been a wounded deer(pic of deer and shot). Different strokes for different folks.
I have two words for you... CAMERA ANGLE!!!! Just because it looks that way doesn't mean it is. The cameras are very very rarely in the exact same plain as the shooter... giving a completely different view to the shooter than those viewing! Hell of a shot though! And yes he is that good!
If the man was trying to teach me to shoot better ,he would have my undivided attention ILL pass on the 57 yrd shot! to far for me on such a small target ,I want her there as a decoy anyway MikeC
"Is it just me or did T bone loose a little weight?" Travis has been working at getting his weight down for quite some time actually. Great guy, great shot, certainly isn't a judgmental ass like most on this thread.
I remember years ago, I think it was the first time he was in a "real tree" video (actual VHS :)). I had no clue who the guy was - I'm just a hunter, 3-d competition or archery competition is not my thing. Any way, they have this "traditional" 3-d competition among the show's players (I think it was Bill Jordan, David Blanton and Wadell). Then they have this dude shooting one of those old Jennings bow's with 4 cams and what looked like mis-matched arrows. They decked him out to look like a total bubba, with fake teeth and all... And the dude outshot everyone. Hey, who know's how edited it was... He was still making some great shots.
Always seemed very down to earth and sort of: "Cool, I get to shoot and hunt for a living now".
Would I have taken that shot, no. I'm not that good. I wouldnt have at 20yds. Ill admit I was worried the arrow was going to smack her in the nose... But based on his history in archery and skill set... And the likely hood that his angle was different than the camera, he's one of the few folks out there capable of doing that.
Bowfreak, you must not know a lot of trad shooters. Fifteen yards is a cake walk.
Travis seems to be a good guy, but, that shot was not ethical in anyway. Yes, he got lucky and it ended up well but it could have gone horribly wrong. Respect to the animal you hunt is your duty as a hunter. Taking shots like that on film only increases the knuckleheads who watch and try to duplicate the shot, not good.
" Some people can't kill an animal at 15 yards but it's ok if they screw up at 15 yards as that is an acceptable distance to shoot. "
No. Just.... No.
If you can't make the shot reliably, then you have no business shooting at 15 yards or 15 feet or 15 inches. And anyone who says you get special dispensation that allows you to be a screw up just because you're using ________ piece of equipment should be tarred & feathered, if not gut-shot & left to rot. Fair is fair.
But no matter how good you are, that is a long shot on a small target; and the longer the shot, the greater the chances that something beyond your control will screw it up. I just fail to see any compelling reason to take that shot, and I can find no justification whatsoever for publicizing the "accomplishment"... but I can see a lot of good reasons why even if you did pull it off perfectly, the wiser thing to do would be to shut the hell up about it.
BAD CAMERA ANGLE Scar? No, it was a bad SHOT angle! Look where he hit that deer! He's lucky the deer didn't look down or lick it's hide. If it had dropped it's head 2 inches that shot would have turned out totally different.
Like others, I was assuming he was aiming for the BROADSIDE doe! No way ANYBODY should be taking a hard quartering TO shot! (Especially at 57 yards!) I don't care WHO you are!
Owl I can't grab a six iron put it next to the pin from 200 yards but there are handful of people in this world that can. Just as there are a select few that can put an arrow on a dime at distances you couldn't reach with your 6 iron ;). I really didn't notice that doe in any position to dart anywhere quickly. Some people are "hunters" and some people are killers. I'll take tbones record over most of his critics on this thread.
'Bowfreak, you must not know a lot of trad shooters. Fifteen yards is a cake walk. "
It should be. I don't know many....maybe 30-40 in 30 years. All but 3 sucked. Actually....I remember another guy. 4 were very proficient. I would admit that most of these guys aren't bowsite serious but they do pack these things into the woods. I know quite a few compound shooters that are terrible too. Point being all along.....they don't shoot like T-Bone, most people don't, but just because we can't make that shot doesn't mean Travis can't.
"Lots of special people here.... "Is it just me or did T bone loose a little weight?" Travis has been working at getting his weight down for quite some time actually. Great guy, great shot, certainly isn't a judgmental ass like most on this thread."
We are all special in our own little way. As for Tbone loosing weight. That's great. Being overweight can be unhealthy. I made a simple observation and you over reacted to it. As for the shot. Great shot. I tend to not be judgemental on how others hunt. This is the Internet things are said all the time that get taken out of context. Then there is the Internet and you can't control what others say on it.
Funny, I made a 57 yard shot on a small coyote last week. Exactly 57 yards. Target was smaller than on that deer and I hit it perfect. Respectful? Ethical? LOL!
"I made a simple observation and you over reacted to it."
Actually Michael the only part of my post directed at you was the response about his weight.... The rest of my post was just a general statement regarding the thread as a whole and a good many other threads on Bowsite. ;)
KJC, big congrats to you. Glad you were able to take a fawn eater out. But to answer your question, Im thinking you would still get a high five from most if you gut shot that dog. Just sayin! :) LOL
You know, I was half-way reserving judgment 'til I'd watched the clip...
OK, so now I know why this guy took the shot... At least they way they set it up, Waddell all but called him a trumphandle if he didn't... so he did it on a dare. Great reason. Almost as good as "well, no bucks have showed up, so I'm just gonna kill something anyway"... And am I the only who noticed that he seemed surprised that it worked out? And what's with the cackling with glee bit?
OK, so I'm a judgmental, sanctimonious SOB. I don't kill for the pleasure of it and I don't kill things just to see if I can or because somebody dares me to take a shot when there's no compelling reason to do so. Flame on.
If you watch the flight of that arrow with one finger on the pause button so you can advance it virtually frame-by-frame, you can see the an ear twitch just after the shot, and you can see the deer moving just before the arrow hits. He got away with it, but only just...
Stupid, irresponsible, and shows no respect for the animal he is hunting. Just because he is capable of that kind of accuracy does not make the shot ethical. Hell, I can put 10 shots onto a 6'' circle at 900yds with my .338 Edge. It doesn't mean I'll ever try to shoot game animals that far.
Guess I'm just gettin' to set in my ways. I'll never understand the thought process that says "Yes" when deciding to take a 57yd frontal shot on a bedded deer or a 103yd shot at an elk, nor those that defend that thought process.
Does that make me a judgmental ass? Maybe, but I've been called worse.
I believe there are tons of archers who can make 50,60,70, etc yard shots lethally and ethically. I have no doubt Travis is one of those folks. But angle and animal behavior has to factor as well.
Guys who are hating just don't realize how good of an archer T-Bone is. Just because you can't do it doesn't mean it can't be done consistently. There is a whole different level of shooting that most people have no clue exists!
" Just because you can't do it doesn't mean it can't be done consistently. " Consistently, NO. Like stated above many times. Just because you can hit a dime every time at 57 yards, that's nice, the dime don't move. Deer move, and that was a terrible shot angle. I have shot at a doe that was 60 yards away, feeding, calm and had no idea I was there. She jumped the string and was 3 bounces away by the time the arrow got there. Ended well for me, a clean miss, could of sucked. I am sure T-bone is a better shot than I, but so what, who cares, I don't, he would of also missed that shot, it is all about the target that can and will move when it hears the string.
Great shot by T bone! I don't understand the jab at tradbow hunters, especially from a guy who doesn't shoot one. I like my crutch just fine...... If it's hand drawn let's stick together!
Not judging whatsoever. Bowhunting deer for me is 20 yards and under, that's why it's so fun (for me!!). With bear's from a treestand it is 15 yards or less. Oh and I have three moose from the ground, 3 yards, 10 yards and 15 yards. Would shoot a moose at 30 yards just happened to get lucky enough to call those in real close (not intentional!!). For me it's too impersonal at 50 plus. However I sure do admire competence at anyone's chosen distance!! To each his own! Again IMHO.
That deer wasn't moving anywhere in the period of time that arrow was traveling there. It was bedded and there was no way it could get out of the way. Deer crouch down to run at the sound of a bow not spring to their feet. That is a close as it gets to a stationary target while hunting.
Matt,
The vast majority of guys I have come into contact with that shoot trad bows couldn't hit a bull in the hind end with a quiver full of arrows. I will admit I have a very limited amount of people I have dealt with but it is simply the truth. I also stated that I am sure that the guys who hunt with trad bows are at a totally different level. BUT....there is a general consensus among bowhunters that it is acceptable to keep your shots close, even if you can't hit crap but it is unacceptable to shoot long distances.....even for a world class archer.
Awful example regardless of who and how good. Great for him that he got some meat(im sure he was starving and needed it bad enough to take such a shot), not good for bowhunters in general. Bowhunting is a game of inches in a much higher percentage situation let alone that one and he's representing those of us who love to bowhunt. Of course, as mentioned, never woulda seen it had it not ended postively. Never do, PERIOD. You dont have to agree with me, but sure ain't gonna get me to agree with you, Which i realize doesnt matter a lick...... Ha
"I have personally witnessed 3 people in my nearly 30 years of bowhunting that I feel were capable of making an ethical shot with a Trad bow at 15 yards yet Trad guys never are scrutinized for their horrid shooting. " You know one more than I do!
Those were the shorts I always wore to Wally World. The wife hated and threw them away while I was out hunting, I mean missing broadside shots at 15 yards with my recurve in September.
I wonder how many bowhunters would slap down a thousand dollar bet and shoot a round of 3D against T-Bone with them shooting at half the unmarked distances??
I watched the vid and fully expected the arrow to hit the doe that was broadside TO ME.
Is it possible that the doe quartering hard to the camera was actually nearly broadside to the shooter? And the doe nearly broadside to the camera was actually quartering hard away from the shooter.
But since I wasn't there and have none of that information, I won't presume to be qualified to pass judgement.
Ambush, what does non moving 3D unknown distance targets have to do with known (57 yards) possible moving targets? I have already said I am sure he is a better shot than I. What does me wounding an animal have to do with him making this shot? Any animal I have wounded was due to animal jumping string, not because I failed to execute a less than perfect shot. The question is, has T-bone ever wounded an animal?
She out shoots me with her compound some days though...notice the pink ones next to my yellow ones. Btw I was practicing a low shot on an alert deer at 20ish yards here
Btw not sure how this thread had to start bashing read hunters?? Also most of the guys you see at trad shoots don't seriously hunt with trad bows they are there to have fun more than anything
Again....not a bash on trad hunters. It was pointing out the irony of many bowunters. Some will be the first one to say that long shots are bad. They will say this and then never define the distance for a good shot. When someone way more capable than them stretches the boundary of where they personally are comfortable with shooting that guy who is completely capable of making longer shots immediately is accused of taking a bad shot. The crappy shooter gets a pass as long as he shoots close shots, chooses equipment that limits their effectiveness or both.
stickhead, your objection seems to be that shooter took less than a "fail safe" shot.
Were the animals that you wounded shot in a "fail safe" situation and if so how could the shot fail? If not a "fail safe" situation, then why did you take the shot?
Always imposing the same criteria on yourself that you have on T-Bone, I would have assumed that you've never had a "fail".
I aim to take high percentage shots on calm animals at close range to increase my chances of success, there are no guarantees. I've never taken a frontal shot. I also do not buy the camera angle defense. Either he was shooting at the broadside deer on the left and missed by a lot, or he took a frontal shot on the deer on the right. I am really trying to be done here, it was fun.
Oh, EXACTLY, Bighorn... because 64 yards is 13% farther than 57 yards, and the target on a frontal shot at a small whitetail is only about 1/13th the size of the lungs on a broadside Elk....
No offense, bud, but it sounds to me as if you're a much better archer than you are a mathematician....
Ah, I see now. You are right about certain traditional shooters being quick to judge others shot selection based on their own abilities. I'm on another site that is just trad and was grilled pretty badly for taking an 8 yard frontal shot on a big doe. I just posted a harvest photo and described my shot. Instantly a bunch of guys started posting negatively and because the site is much more strict than Bowsite the thread was ultimately moved to a read-only forum. The funny thing is that I have seen some of them shoot, many of them because they shot at tournaments that I won or placed in. It was all I could do to not make the obvious point that there shooting skills were not as capable as others. I think the same could be said for compound shooters, there are some really excellent ones, many average, and some just don't shoot well or shoot equipment that is outdated.
How did this guys shot at a bedded deer at almost 60 yrds at that angle as well become a trad issue..cripes. What a joke. Distracting from the whole issue of shot to begin with.
"Some believe that given the conditions and the excellence of the archer, that this was a no fail shot."
There's no such thing as a no fail shot. Deer duck, hunters miss and hit branches. No shot is infallible but Tbone nailed this shot and I bet would nail it 9-10 on live animals and 10-10 on a 3D target. 9-10 is better than a lot of archers at 20 yards. Even Michael Annette lost a buck this year to a close shot. I guess we need to quit shooting at deer past 12 yards because they could possible move their head.
to the guys slamming stickbows, your circle is too small. I am the worst shot in my group of stickbow shooters, and I can put a hunting arrow within 2" of where I want it, (a 4" circle)at 20 yards, every shot, or else I don't go out hunting. When I am "on" (which I always try to be before hunting season or a hog hunt) I will extend that to a 3" (a 6" circle) at 30 yards. These group sizes include "flub" shots, and most of my arrows will be closer. If you have doubts as to my efficacy with the recurve and longbow, you can ask Matt or Cheryl Napper, Randy "Owl" Britt, Bryan "bb" Barzee, and a few others who've seen the results of my shooting.
No reason to take that shot. Experienced bow hunters know how the odds go down shooting at bedded animals,. It he is selling videos rather than ethics.
"Some believe that given the conditions and the excellence of the archer, that this was a no fail shot." My point from this statement was sarcastic, in that some of you are acting like because he made the shot this time on the video, he will make it every time, because he can out shoot all of us, people who shoot trad bows suck, and he won some tournaments.
" Experienced bow hunters know how the odds go down shooting at bedded animals,."
Don't know where to start on that one..... very few hunters that are more experienced than t-bone. A good shot and a pretty fair bow mechanic as well. He lives and breaths archery and bowhunting. Not some guy that picks up his bow a week before a deer season and hunts a few days of the season then stores it away until next year like the VAST majority.
Bedded shots are a piece of cake if you know your angles. As are frontal shots. Have killed elk, deer, pigs, feral goats, mouflon and other assorted varmints in their beds with the bow. Pretty much all those various species with a frontal too.
Again.... are bowhunters supposed to restrict their hunting and shots taken to the lowest common denominator? Only shoot at broadside whitetails at 15-20 yards from a tree? Or just keep it secret so as not to "encourage" tough shots like those old hacks Bear and Hill and others?
Some of you guys act like its unethical to take that shot, but for a guy who practices at those distances, its really not that big of a deal. Agree with you Bowfreak, not sure why people are tossing the yellow flag here. Great shot by a great archer.