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Age this buck
Whitetail Deer
Contributors to this thread:
elk yinzer 09-Jan-17
mouse 09-Jan-17
HerdManager 09-Jan-17
Topgun 30-06 09-Jan-17
T Mac 09-Jan-17
BigOzzie 09-Jan-17
LKH 09-Jan-17
doug77 09-Jan-17
Scooby-doo 10-Jan-17
milnrick 10-Jan-17
elk yinzer 10-Jan-17
sticksender 10-Jan-17
elk yinzer 10-Jan-17
EJG 10-Jan-17
HerdManager 10-Jan-17
Muskrat 10-Jan-17
LKH 10-Jan-17
Lee 10-Jan-17
elk yinzer 11-Jan-17
APauls 11-Jan-17
leo17 11-Jan-17
From: elk yinzer
09-Jan-17

elk yinzer's embedded Photo
elk yinzer's embedded Photo
PA State Forest deer. Not my trailcam picture, but one made public through a PSU deer study (minimum age is known).

From: mouse
09-Jan-17
21/2

From: HerdManager
09-Jan-17
3.5

From: Topgun 30-06
09-Jan-17
3.5

From: T Mac
09-Jan-17
2.5

From: BigOzzie
09-Jan-17
deeper chest than I expected on that small of a rack, unless the pict. is deceiving me. 3.5

From: LKH
09-Jan-17
1.5 I'm going for an impressive yearling.

From: doug77
09-Jan-17
1.5

From: Scooby-doo
10-Jan-17
3.5 Scooby

From: milnrick
10-Jan-17
2.5 3.5, but the bigger question is the telemetry/tracking collar. If the buck is part of a study you might be able to contact your state agency with the particulars about the sighting and see what they can tell you.

From: elk yinzer
10-Jan-17

elk yinzer's embedded Photo
elk yinzer's embedded Photo
Well, sorry to report there were zero correct guesses.

This guy is at least 4.5 years old (likely his true age). Per the study, he was trapped in Winter 2013-2014 as an adult deer (at least 1.5), so that puts him at least 4.5 in Fall 2016.

Here is a trailcam picture of him (what a beauty!) in Fall 2014 likely as a 2.5 year old.

Sure isn’t Kansas or Iowa growth, eh? Just pointing out what a mature whitetail looks like to those of us hunting the Appalachian Mountains. I hunt the area and I can vouch that is a smallish but representative mature buck.

It's also an incredible ongoing study with a lot of valuable information on deer movement in relation to the rut and hunting pressure, kudos to my alma mater for carrying it out. http://ecosystems.psu.edu/research/projects/deer/news

From: sticksender
10-Jan-17
Quote: "he was trapped in Winter 2014 as an adult deer (at least 1.5), so that puts him at least 4.5 in Fall 2016".

I don't exactly follow your math. Still very interesting....must be some poor genetics and/or nutrition in that area, as far as antler development goes.

From: elk yinzer
10-Jan-17
sticksender - They run traps January through April, so he was captured in that timeframe in 2014 as an adult, likely a yearling. That puts him at 2.5 in the Fall of 2014.

From: EJG
10-Jan-17
he is saying fall of 2013 he was 1.5, so trapped in winter of 2013/2014

From: HerdManager
10-Jan-17

From: Muskrat
10-Jan-17
Even compared to bucks here in North Florida, he looks like a 2.5 or 3.5 at best! Not arguing the fact of his age, just stating what he looks like. Our deer here have very poor soil and mineral content in general, and look about like this buck at 2.5 or 3.5, but usually with more of a set of horns on them.

From: LKH
10-Jan-17
Genetics. I killed a lean 205 lb buck near Littlefork, MN. The rack was about 95". I sent the teeth in and it was aged at 6.5. Not quite as small a rack as this one, but they don't all grow up to be "trophies".

It's believed 15% of all Alaskan moose age 7 or older won't have 50+ inch racks.

From: Lee
10-Jan-17
Genetics plays a big role - much more than I ever realized. I always figured age was the most important behind soils but lean more towards nutrition, genetics and age to produce high scoring bucks. I live in IL and send off dozens of sets of teeth a year and am constantly surprised at the ages of many of the deer. I had a 149" 2.5 year old one time and have had numerous 4.5+ year old bucks that won't make PnY even though they have big bodies - field dress 180 - 215 for 4.5 and older bucks depending on when shotgun season falls. I also checked a 3.5 yo 175" 12 pointer a few years ago. The worst was a 7.5 year old 7 pointer that maybe scored 90". We've got great soil and good genetics but a lot has to come together to produce a good scoring buck. Another standout was about a 120" 10 pointer that field dressed 130 lbs. he was in good shape - just small. Age came back at 5.5! I send the tooth samples to Matsons lab in MT.

Lee

From: elk yinzer
11-Jan-17

elk yinzer's embedded Photo
Representative oak/mountain laurel habitat
elk yinzer's embedded Photo
Representative oak/mountain laurel habitat
elk yinzer's embedded Photo
PA mountains
elk yinzer's embedded Photo
PA mountains
elk yinzer's embedded Photo
More thick laurel/oak woods and a good mountain buck
elk yinzer's embedded Photo
More thick laurel/oak woods and a good mountain buck
Back to summarize some thoughts on the genetics/habitat/age interplay on my local poorly endowed buck:

Habitat: PA is a state with a lot of geologic diversity. We have, by Eastern standards, some pretty legit wild mountainous country which many are unaware of, and most of which is public. That is where this particular buck calls home, in the ridge and valley geography. It’s very unique whitetail habitat for sure. The ridges are a series of 500-1000 foot, parallel, long-running sandstone ridges with adjacent broad, fertile limestone valleys. The mountain habitat is indeed very infertile, but the deer get by albeit with moderate to low densities.

The majority of this habitat type is public land, but it’s not hunted especially hard, well, because the hunting subjectively sucks to a lot of people. Most of the slopes are very rocky. There are vast areas of practically impenetrable laurel and rhododendron. Deer no doubt die of old age. There are a lot of oaks which provide abundant mast in good years, but beyond that food can be tough. Mountain laurel, blueberry, and huckleberry largely dominate the understory, with dramatically fewer forbs and herbs than most Eastern woodlands.

Browse is the major limiting habitat factor and is mostly created by cutting, along with far too infrequent burning and the occasional microburst. As with much of the mid-Atlantic and Northeast, large swatches of the state are currently stuck with a later-successional forest that lacks the habitat benefits of both intensive management and true old-growth, effectively creating habitat deserts in large areas of big woods. Nonetheless, as you can see the subject deer appears healthy. 2016 was a banner acorn crop and the mountain buck I killed in late October was sporting a generous layer of pre-rut fat.

Genetics: I would assert that the antler size is due more to habitat/soil fertility. But, in my opinion there is a genetically distinct population adapted to the mountain life. I have observed that the deer that live in the mountains are shorter in stature, smaller framed, smaller antlered, and grayer in color. Furthermore the most isolated mountain areas are still within 3-5 miles of agriculture, so the deer could readily migrate down into the more fertile valleys, which indeed some do. I suspect that factor prevents the genetic isolation necessary for the mountain deer to be recognized as a separate subspecies akin to the way Coues' is with much more geographic isolation. On the flip side, it seems that the deer “choose” in some sense to scrape out a tougher life in the mountains, which to me suggests that there are behavioral elements potentially suggesting a separate subspecies.

I posted this to illustrate the vast disparities between antler growth of mature whitetail in different areas. It is my belief that the PY/BC books to a large degree influence and homogenize the horn porn whitetail hunting culture to the point of marginalizing and disrespecting more unique quality hunting experiences for mature animals. Locally the hunting culture certainly recognizes this to some degree, but it is worth mentioning in a broader realm. To me these cool little mountain bucks are a blast to hunt and the experiences of hunting them in the mountains far outweigh the superior inches of antler on deer I’ve hunted in agricultural regions.

From: APauls
11-Jan-17
Yyyyyyyyaaaa, but Saskatchewan is 31st in P&Y entries and you can shoot one there with your eyes closed...Even in Manitoba (39th) a P&Y buck isn't that difficult to kill. I would venture to guess that half the 2.5 year olds are on the cusp of P&Y. Just a statement of how nice the young deer are up here vs somewhere like the OP's Pennsylvania.

From: leo17
11-Jan-17
I have 7 that qualify but have not entered a single one, so I never go by entry statistics. Lots of guys don't bother entering their deer

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