Pushing for coyotes & Stress on deer
Whitetail Deer
This is a debate i've had with co-hunters and myself for years; why i just now thought to get the input from the masses is beyond me.
700 acres of private ground in illinois, 60% timber, 40% crop fields. Farm acquired in 2008.
Years before we obtained this property a group (8-20 people) would push the property for coyotes every sunday starting after deer season (4-6 weeks). When we purchased the property we allowed this to continue and i've made a lot of friends by hunting with this group and it certainly wins points with the locals by doing these hunts.
Here is my concern: Obviously this puts stress on the deer herd but how much? Does the benefit of killing coyotes outweigh the stress put on the deer by doing this?
I have adjusted the way we do things over the last few years by limiting how often we push a certain area and by keeping certain places off limits for coyotes in order to establish sanctuary areas for the deer. That said, it's not uncommon to see 10-20 deer on our coyote push.
There are 3 major timber areas on the farm that are broken up, this allows for 3 different coyote pushes which depend on the wind; usually we will do 2 pushes every sunday and kill 6-12 coyotes on our farm every year.
To me, this causes significant stress on the deer herd as we also push the deer at the same time. While the coyotes are abundant, we certainly help the fawn crop by killing the coyotes. I also call coyotes and kill a few on the property every year.
An additional aspect of this is that i shed hunt, scout, and place stands frequently through the months of january, february and march which certainly stirs up the deer at the same time.
Pros: Decrease the coyote population and thus help the future fawn crop establish a positive relationship and form bonds with local hunters
Cons: Increases the stress on the whitetail herd by increasing human foot traffic and presence.
I'd really ilke to get your input on whether we are helping or hurting the quality of the deer herd by doing this. If i can provide more info on the property, deer herd, or coyote hunts, please let me know.
I think its a good thing that you are thinking about the end result of your deer herd but in some years (weeks) you may be over thinking it. If there were little to no snow and plenty of available food for the deer, then I think you should continue to do what you've been doing. When the snow level exceeds a certain amount, and that amount hinders the deer mobility and availability to get food, then I think you are or may be doing yourself a disservice. That's just my opinion without over thinking it.
I don't think you are stressing your deer herd as much as you think. The only exception would be in a particularly hard winter. IMO you are doing far more good eliminating he predators then you are doing bad by stirring up your herd a few times per winter. If you have a lot of snow and not much food for the deer in a particular winter I would approach predator control through less invasive measures.
Sorry but the "if you have a lot of snow" argument should be just the opposite. When the snow is deep, very deep the coyotes have a field day with the deer. It makes their job of killing them much easier. I think doing some pushing and killing the coyotes is a great idea regardless of the winter conditions. The deer after a couple pushes realize they are not the one under threat and will get adjusted to the intrusion. Scooby
I would think the benefits of reducing the coyote population far outweigh the negligible effects of moving the deer around. I certainly wouldn't be concerned about the deers' health, if anything maybe a chance that mature bucks would permanently alter their core areas to places with less disturbance. My experience is driven deer don't run as far as you might think. Usually less than a half mile to escape cover where they can hole up again.
Did those coyotes suddenly go vegan? Just a guess, but my guess is probably not. If they are there then they are hunting deer, a lot more then every few weeks. A good coyote population will put a ton more stress on a deer herd then a weekly drive. If you want to be less invasive, trap them.
If you have deep snow there are multiple studies on how stressful it is on deer - I would not mess with yotes during that period (since you can do it other times of the year).
If the snow is minimal then you are good to go in my book.
Find someone to trap them if you can't.
I don't think Coyotes kill deer do they?
There are many theories on that relationship, but when I was a kid, being raised in Wyoming, I hardly ever saw a coyote and in those days the mule deer population was at it highest number in modern times. Then the ban of poison came and I started to see more coyotes and far less deer. I can't say that is what caused their decline, no more than the experts can, but to me it seems there's got to be some relation.
But I have come to believe, that coyotes are about the best hunters out there, and one of, if not the smartest animal, I have ever experienced.
Have a great bow hunt. BB
This is anecdotal, but in the years that I trapped coyotes extensively, I had better fawn recruitment on my property. I'm in the camp with rodb.
In the latest article of North American hunter there is some information regarding the true impact of coyotes on deer; it seems that in the southeast US they play the largest role in whitetail fawn survival.
It's impossible for me to establish whether the herd has changed in size since this has been going on at our property long before we even owned it. We were approached by the group shortly after purchasing it and being new to the area, we agreed they could continue to do so.
I feel the herd is at a healthy level as it currently is, in fact we have been one of the few properties in the area that has been shooting more does to reduce the numbers and work on having a better buck to doe ratio. The herd seems healthy but as with most properties (i assume) we find a few dead deer every late winter/early spring while shed hunting. These can't all be attributed to coyotes, in fact i would guess few are.
I do feel better about our coyote hunting practice as is; i had just feared that we may be doing more harm than good but it seems we are helping the deer herd by doing so.
A positive note that has kept me from stopping the coyote hunts is that 95% of the bucks we have harvested in the last ten years had at least 1 year of prior history (sheds, sightings, cam photos) so its apparent that we aren't running too many deer out of the area.
I would have to laugh at the notion of Illinois and tough winter going hand in hand. If the deer are getting killed there by winter...well then they deserve to die anyways. That's a weak animal a predator is picking off.
I would imagine that the coyotes run the deer a heck of a lot harder than a push once a week, so if you actually killing them when doing the drives, I say giver. Then again, there is the research that suggests it's actually impossible to knock down coyote populations hunting them, as more move in. I would think if you could knock a bunch down just prior to fawn birth time that might be good?? Who really knows.
I agree APauls, winter kill is virtually non-existent here. If I recall bumpin's farm is even pretty far south in the state, so definitely not much impact from winter on the animals (at least nothing like northern Conus or Caneeeda). If it happens to be a tough stretch with temps around 0 F and the rare foot of snow, maybe wait 2 weeks. It happens on occasion and our deer are not exactly used to that. Otherwise, I say have at the yotes.
Wait till after season and shoot away. The deer will come back.
Two years ago I was deer hunting in South Dakota. Scouting one morning we were driving a section line with a standing corn field on one side. As we were passing the field a doe ran across the section line in front of us and hot on it's heels was a coyote. She jumped the fence into a hayfield that had been stripped on the other side of the section line. The coyote caught her not 50 yards into this hayfield and jumped on her front end causing her to stumble and fall. By this time they were in some longer grass so we couldn't see them. I quickly turned around and went back to the gate and drove out there. We jumped the doe; I'm sure the coyote had it down and was in the process of killing it until we intervened. Saw the coyote a few hundred yards away getting out of dodge.
There was a little snow but not a lot. We could see the tracks in the snow and hair from where the yote jumped on her. Only time I've ever seen that. Asked several friends and family members that have lived in that country their entire lives; they've also never seen a lone coyote take a healthy adult deer down.
Sometimes I think we get things backwards. A healthy prey population is usually followed by an expanding predator population. If you shoot a lot of coyotes they will reproduce faster. It still feels good to take some. On some level we see them in competition for our deer. I doubt you are having a major impact on the deer population good or bad by hunting coyotes.
I say keep hunting coyotes.. You might push the deer an hour a week... coyotes push 24/7.... snow, no snow, cold, whatever..... coyotes arent stopping their hunting
I hunt a horse farm with trails running through it that are accessible to all of the other horse farms in the area. It's busy. At least 4 riders per hour during all daylight hours. In the summer months, triple that #. My point is, the deer are still there and the population is thriving. They get pushed around by the people and the horses constantly. They learn to deal with the human/horse intrusions and it doesn't seem to stress them at all. Do you think a deer would rather deal with humans or coyotes. I think almost any deer would choose humans if they are getting rid of the coyotes. Imo, don't worry about stressing the deer, kill the coyotes.
That's why I was thinking maybe the only way to really help would be a coyote blitz just prior to the fawns dropping. Otherwise more will just move in.
JayZ...I've lived and hunted in SD my entire life. I've seen coyotes pull down deer on two separate occasions. Never a lone one but usually a pair. Unfortunately the rats are hammering our deer where I hunt this winter. The snow is deep and we've had a couple of ice storms making it hard for the deer to escape and get food. It's going to be a hard winter on our herd. I really need to get out and do my part to thin out the yotes.
We just started a year long trapping program we'll see Lewis
Anybody who doesn't believe coyotes don't kill adult deer and only kidding themselves... Show'm your pictures Lewis...
What's amazing about the coyote is that they have been shot by all methods, trapped, snared, poisoned and typically have no closed season or bag limit, yet they keep on going.
.....maybe a tick a too :)
Unfortunately this one did my sister had a single yote take down and kill a mature doe in backyard while she was screaming at it.Yes they are here to stay but we have been doing some thinning.Lewis
I remember a study on coyotes that stated that to control (not eliminate) are area's population, 70% of the coyotes needed to be killed each year and every year.
A friend who owns 1200 acres of prime deer/turkey property in northern Kansas hired a trapper last year because he felt the coy population was increasing , and 49 coyotes were trapped the first two months.
When man-like is off our planet, ie, End of the World, the only remaining animals will be rats, cockroaches, and coyotes.
