Pref Pts- Am I Too Late in the Game?
Elk
I hunted elk for the first time this past fall at age 55. I don't have any PP in any states. I don't know how many more 'good' years i have in me for elk hunting.
Is it worth getting in to the preference point game for elk hunting at this point in my life?
Depends on where you are talking about. There are plenty of good elk hunts out there that are over the counter or very few points. If you are talking some of the prime units in AZ or Utah that require 15-20 years, then yes, you might be too late. Find the State you want to hunt, pick the units that require fewer points and go for it. The results are all over the board state by state.
Hunt - there is a very similar thread with many responses you may want to pull up. Go to the bottom of the page and in the bowsite search function type in "Best State To Build Points" you will see the thread there and get a lot of answers and insight.
--Mitch
You aren't too late, but I'd build points with the plans to burn them as soon as you possibly can in each state.
Ya there is an alarmingly high number of similar posts on BS as well as other forums I'm on. Many more than in the past. Maybe because of the glut of new publications out there. OP you can read up on other forums as well. I quit giving advice just were too many this year. Not enough time.
I'm in same boat. But started building points 4 years ago, now 56 years old. The goal for me was to build points for my 2 kids, so that one day they could draw a good tag. Check the states that offer 'random tags' where tags aren't allocated for Just max point holders.
I am pissed when I lose $20 at a casino and don't enjoy going there at all. I never play the lottery unless it's the occasional group thing at work because if I didn't, and they won, I would have to slit my wrists.
But for some reason, I love playing the tag lottery.
Might you alternate otc hunts and outfitted hunts every other season? Assuming a fixed budget is a concern looking into retirement.
I'm 59, and been putting in the last 9 years for retirement time. I think you could do a few and just gather some points to get into mid level units in a few years with OTC tags backing you up until then. After 9 years I wish I hadn't done Utah. They have so few NR tags for the good units it's going to be a long time for me, if ever. 5 years and 5 points in Wyoming will get you in some decent units or even have good odds to hunt every 3 years in some decent units. There is also the luck factor in drawing, I'm playing the Powerball tonight. Talk about long shots.
If you put in, you have a chance. If you don't put in, you have no chance.
One thing I think a few people might not take enough advantage of is the ability to draw a tag before the "required number of points". In a state like Utah, it might take 12 points to be guaranteed a tag, but you're missing out on 12 years of a 5-10% chance of drawing if you just build points. The same goes for Arizona, and to a lesser extent Nevada and Wyoming. Also, in Utah you can get a general archery tag for spikes/cows and go check out all the great limited entry bull units such that by the time it's your turn you already have a head start.
Not too late at all as long as you can maintain a decent physical conditioning. I started putting in for AZ at 60, drew 7 years later at a mid tier unit, it has been the best archery elk hunt I've experienced in many years of elk hunting. -- In the meantime hunt every year on OTC elk hunts to prepare your self mentally & physically, you'll be glad you did!
ElkNut
In 2008, in my first year of eligibility (3+0 points), I drew a very desirable sheep tag in Colorado. I had never won anything before in my life, and have never won anything since.....and still consider myself to having been blessed for that draw. If you don't put in, you can't win.....if you enter into various random draws, at least you have a chance.
I'm with tkjwonta....
Utah, Nevada, Idaho, Montana, New Mexico all have elk hunts with random chances for some units that are worth the application fee IMHO.
AZ odds are so low it seems like a tough one to spend all the money and never actually draw a tag. Colorado is out completely as it's always and only the top point holders who can draw.
Wyoming General elk can be a great hunt during archery season and it's three or 4 years to draw in the more expensive 'special' and in my opinion worth every penny.
My guess is you're going to get three or four elk hunts by the time your 70, especially if you can get some help or a guide as you get older.
It takes a pretty thick skin to play the points games when you get all the 'unsuccessful' emails, but when one hits it's pretty awesome to be able to go play. I've only drawn three LE tags in the 40 years I've been playing this game. Still throwing down on all the elk hunts I can find.
God luck in the draws this year, you never know it could be a one hit wonder for you. As Robb always says, 'you gotta believe' !!!!
Cheers, Pete
Now almost 58. I build points, but am not worried about waiting 20 plus years to kill something. As a NR I hunt elk in Az every 5-6 years as I do lower tier units. Don't want to wait till I am 80 to hunt. I build points up to about 3 or so here in Colorado to get units I really like, but again not top tier units. I also hunt every year in Colorado as there are plenty of tags over the counter or that I can draw second or third choice so I don't blow my bonus points. Some folks wait their whole lives for a specific hunt. I personally just like hunting and like to get out. Not really worried if I shoot a big bull. For me a lot of the hunting experience is getting out an hiking into new country and exploring. Pretty sure at 70 or so I won't be doing what I do now.
Arrow1, don't be so sure. I'm 69 this year and bowhunt elk and muleys around 50+ days a year, depending upon what I kill and when. Paul@the Fort is in his 80s and still does solo backpack elk hunts.
I have mentored a couple guys who saved up 20-22 points to bowhunt one of the CO premier units. Neither one had ever bowhunted elk before they drew that special tag. I don't understand that.
One guy had a nice hike in the woods for a couple weeks watching elk run away and listening to bugles. The other one killed a decent 330 bull, but only because I put him on a good waterhole and told him to stay put.
Collect points and hunt while you are collecting them, as long as that option is still available.
In Colorado, any draw unit is miles above the circus that is OTC, in my humble opinion. Even the 1/2 point units have exponentially less hunting pressure.
I started building points in AZ and UT 19 years ago, I didn’t get into the draws in WY or CO at that time for some reason I can’t remember. Back then it took about 10 points to draw one of the top tier units in each state. Fast forward 19 years and based on draw odd reports I’m reading those same units now take 23 to 25 points so I figure I’ve only got another 19 years of applying before I can hunt Unit 9 in AZ! I’m now applying for the next level down in each state that take 18 - 19 points and once I burn the points I’m likely out of the annual donation to each state’s DOW. All that said I’ve hunted NM twice, MT multiple times, ID once and OR at least 6 times since drawing a tag in my home state of NV in 2002. I had a 10 year waiting period after the successful NV hunt and I’m now at 10 points in my home state hoping to draw one of our top units in the next year or two.
With all the experience I’ve gained the past 20 years, I’m sure I’ll have a more enjoyable hunt the second time around in NV and will be ready if I ever draw AZ and UT.
It would be neat to hear what Hunt98 decided. He may have had a few low point hunts, or could have 6 points accumulated since starting this thread.
My suggestion, put in for a couple of states such as AZ, and WY. The next 2 would be MT, and NV if you wanted to build in 4 states. I wouldn't bother with UT, CO, or OR. Otherwise, ID and NM are still 100% random draws.
Fast approaching the day (at least as a NR) you will ONLY be able to hunt elk if drawn somewhere. Hopefully most will still only take a point or 3. Even some "OTC" states are limiting their OTC tags. And they are selling out fast and early. Figure where you want to hunt and go from there with your research.
And yeah..... super premium units..... likely out of your (and my) lifetime. Even those with a fistfuls of points are finding point creep has pushed their dreams farther and farther away. Dreams run head on into reality. And why many in the midpoint range are getting bumped by folks with high points cashing them in. Again.... reality sucks.
But like Jake said.... you don't apply you have zero shot. Many draws have a random aspect and everyone has a shot at them. NM, everybody starts equal, kinda sorta.
And.... more and more states seam to be handing out more and more land owner tags for them to sell. That's another option if you have the means. Again, research and more research.
Where there's a will there's a way. Trusts can be even better..... =D
Lol this is a 6 year old thread. The first responses are probably irrelevant. It’s getting so much worse each year.
I would definitely not bother with Oregon, Nevada nor Utah. The odds in those states from the ground floor is now powerball & unrealistic. Most of the others may be OK at this point. But just beware your points will be devalued by each state over time. That’s just what they all do. It’s not like products on the free market. They got Carte Blanche to bend you over down the road, so they all do.
I’m 63 and have realized how lucky I was to just sneak into the game in time to draw so many great hunts before the internet blew everything up. Used to be so easy to get great tags every year in random draws. That all got phased out by the masses and outfitter welfare plus states just throwing NR’s under the bus. I apply in 40 lotteries every year and have failed to draw in any of the random ones in ten years (2012). And that one wasn’t even out West, but New Hampshire moose. I now have over 300 points yet draw far fewer tags than when I had none.
Out of those 40 lotteries the bright side is a few are preference based, so at least I should get one good tag/year for the next 5. Beyond that, even with 30 points I don’t expect to ever be able to cash most of these points in my lifetime, given the odds. So anybody entering on the ground floor should understand their only hope will be low tier units. Sadly, that is my prognostication.
Pretty bad when a guy with 30 points for some of these draws pretty much gives up and focuses instead on Midwest whitetails & turkey, but that is where I’m headed. More and more of these draws have ROI’s so low, they are not worth investing in. So beware.
WY is our only real chance at a decent tag in the next 5 - 10 years (or less). NM has no points, worth applying.
Likely this thread is more relevant now than it was just a few years ago. Would be cool to know what elk he's hunted since the OP and how things went.
"Decent" is very much in the eye of the bowholder. =D
Drew a pretty easy CO tag last year, 70% or so with no points. Had a great hunt and a good bull. But you have to do your.... diligence.....
Com'on AZ......
"Fast approaching the day (at least as a NR) you will ONLY be able to hunt elk if drawn somewhere."
I hope you're right Tom. At least for NRs. OTC tags are no way to manage elk.
Nonetheless, if you're twice as good at foretelling the future as 99% of humans have traditionally been, you're still probably wrong.
Anything could happen over the next 20 years; the Boomers all go tits up and the kids could all be drafted to fight China, which would free up some tags... Who knows?
When I started applying for big game tags out of state just over a decade ago, everyone was saying that I was too late to the game and it was pointless. I've drawn some nice tags since then and will continue to do so.
Well i started in my early 50 to try for AZ elk going to be my retirement hunt was told 8 or 9 points would do it in the zone i was looking at Well sitting at 13 points retirement was 6 years ago was in great shape in my mid 60s but as i am approaching 70 body not breaking down yet but only God knows when,I walk several miles a day in the mountains just trying to stay in somewhat decent shape ,Just hoping point creep doesnt pass me by this year
Hell I have 20 Colorado elk points and I don't know if I will ever be able to draw the premier units!
AZ is a Bonus point state, not a Preference point state
AZ is a Bonus point state, not a Preference point state
“AZ is a Bonus point state, not a Preference point state” - Not really. It’s basically 20% preference, 80% random bonus. The word “bonus” can be misleading.
Well, since you say “not really”, it’s identified as a modified bonus point system, where 20% allocated to applicants with the most bonus points and the rest are randomly allocated. For those unfamiliar, key to BONUS here in the random, your name is in the hat for as many bonus points as you have for that 80% of the tags. Not just 1 tag in the hat for 25% of the tags(WY random), even though you may have 5 preference points.
6 bonus points (in AZ) = 6 names in the hat for 80% of random pool in AZ.
6 preference points (in WY) = 1 name in the hat for 25% of random pool in WY.
Nothing misleading about “bonus” to some.
6 bonus points (in AZ) = 6 names in the hat for 80% of random pool in AZ.
6 preference points (in WY) = 1 name in the hat for 25% of random pool in WY.
Nothing misleading about “bonus” to some.
I messed up the above. If you have 6 bonus pts in AZ, your name is in the hat 7 times for the random pool (1 for current year and 6 for bonus pts.
That’s why I used the term “random bonus” rather than just “random”.
I don’t know why you wanted to be argumentative or contradictory to start with. Reread the Op’s title. If you apply unsuccessfully in a state and get a bonus point, that’s a bonus point state, regardless of the system used to allocate tags. Nothing “not really” about it.
Each state publishes the numbers for each level of point holders.
For example they will post
25,800 people have one point 26,890 two points 25,600 three points.
From that info you can do the math. if there are 100 non resident tags awarded how many years it will take you to draw. Of course there are other factors. But it gives you a rough idea
If you’re interested in 2-3 point hunts it’s worth getting in the game.
For the best units. if you got in now, it could take 30 years. I personally think there are better ways to spend your money for 20-30 years.
I don’t know why you wanted to be argumentative or contradictory to start with. Reread the Op’s title. If you apply unsuccessfully in a state and get a bonus point, that’s a bonus point state, regardless of the system used to allocate tags. Nothing “not really” about it.
We will agree to disagree.
