What's your take?
General Topic
A good friend of mine makes custom back packs... High quality well made packs I'm sure several of you use them.
A little over a year ago he gets a call from a big name Internet "Bowhunting star" who wanted a couple of packs. The exact same pack in two different colors. After pricing discussions the packs were made and shipped out. Over the course of several months numerous emails were sent requesting payment..
In time one of the packs gets sent back but still no payment. Phone calls and emails go unreturned until finally a semi nasty email is sent on how this guy should be embarrassed.
Again over a years time it took to get 1/2 payment and one pack sent back. I'm not gonna publicly out the guy but does anyone think the manufacturer could or should?
Were payment terms agreed upon anywhere in writing? A man's word should hold firm, but that's not how things seem to work anymore.
Two sides to every story. Make sure your side is tight before going public.
I wouldn't bother outing the guy. Life is short and most stuff like this is better handled by taking the high road and moving on. If he sent one back and paid 1/2 the original deal, does that mean he paid for the 1 pack he kept in full? If so, I would call that a win compared to how stuff like this could go. If you out him, it might trigger him to spread negative stuff about your friend.
There is always two sides and the potential for ending up with some negative press on top of an already screwed up deal whether your friend deserves any of it or not. Energy is probably better spent elsewhere.
I've been in the outdoor industry one way or another for 25 years and this type of stuff happens all the time. Celebrity expects stuff for free or deeply discounted in return for promotion. Manufacturer expects promotion in return for product. I've seen it go badly many times due to one party or the other not performing or both parties not communicating at the beginning of their relationship. I've also seen it work great when communication is good and both parties hold up their end.
Starting a negative press war usually hurts everyone. The public has no idea who is in the right so you can expect to receive 1/2 the damage. Celebrity status will sway some folks to side with him just because.
Does your friend always make the pack and then wait on payment? He should take payment first from everyone. Deposit first, complete payment before packs are shipped. He should not go public, he should rethink his business model.
Hi Mark. A man's word should be worth something....I would not make it public but would make sure that person understood my position and my opinion of his credibility/character.
Take care. Mike
Celebs are just like non-celebs. Some have integrity and some don't.
Your friend will get more traction by posting on the guys social media accounts. Instagram and twitter primarily; all his followers will know what's up.
Let it go life is too short and this stuff does not register on the relevance meter
I say out them... Let everybody know whats up. Why change his business model? He's as honest as he can get, sending out the pack before payment... Unless there were other circumstances we didn't hear about... Time to name names IMO
I don't consider myself an 'industry' guy but I do participate in it to some degree.
Bartering is very common. We do it. But when we do, there is a clear understanding by both parties as to what's expected.
I've no doubt this particular individual is used to free gear. If he was asked for payment and he simply blew it off he's just another scumbag. This industry is full of them. No surprise.
However outing the guy is inviting trouble. It will devolve into a he said she said and it could lead to a lawsuit. You're buddy could be out far more money than the simple packs.
Let it go. These guys eventually implode anyway.
But I know how it feels. I've been lied to and screwed by a handful of well known bowhuters and would love to go public but I know better. One of them prays constantly on his tv show and he's the worst. But I leave it alone and will never disclose any business mishaps because there's upside.
Sorry for the wrong name. I forgot I'm still using my test account on my phone.
Pat Lefemine
Never had anyone send me anything before I paid for it. Does your friend do that for everyone?
Midwest...I don't believe so.
There are always 3 sides to a story
Only downer to a pissing battle is everyone gets wet...
Never get into a pissing match with a guy on a balcony. Be the guy on the balcony!
lol^^^^^this. I remember being a little kid trying to spit at my older brother hanging his head off the side of his bunk bed. Years later I got to be the older brother and my younger brother was in the bunk below... :)
Tell your buddy to go kick his ass. Way more fun and effective than trading snarky e-mails.
Let it go with a lesson learned. Outing him could invite a lawsuit. No business needs that!
If the "celebrity" doesn't have it in him to be ashamed, I really doubt you could do any better job than his parents did.
Whatever your friend does, tell him to take the High-Road it will serve him better in the long run.
so called celebs are no different than all of us. We got great & all the way to butt holes.
Do you think your friend wants to sell the used pack? I may be interested.
Sly Stone (of Sly and the Family Stone) once got a new motorcycle from a dealer and never paid for it. Took 3 years to get it back, as heavily used merchandise. Sly is now a crackhead living under an overpass. Lesson: what goes around comes around.
Probably a case of the "celebrity" either thinking he is special and deserves free stuff, or knowing he can get away with it. You see it all the time.
That said, I agree with Pat and others. Take it as a learning experience and take the high road! Anything else will only cause problems.
I work in a job where "I don't care Who you think you are or what you job title is" you are no better than the guy down the street. No offense to your buddy but I hope from now on with his business he gets that attitude. You treat EVERYBODY the same, with respect , quality work, and payment before shipping. Custom request, half up front, because you are making it special for them, to their requirements, and item maybe no one will ever want to buy. Sorry your buddy got shafted. DANNY
+1 Midwest
Why not ask for payment first, then send the merchandise....? That's the way most do business.
I remember seeing a thread on FB a short time ago about a guy not charging for pizza until he delivered it. Seemed like a few anti's caught on and ordered pizza and then never showed to pay for it. This caused the honest businessman to lose money, but he stuck to his normal business plan even though he was getting shafted by the anonymous anti's trying to cause havoc with his business.
I agree with BPM, take the high road and move on. In the big picture a pack is not worth that much.
Be the honest businessman, not the dishonest Anti!
Scott H
Hey, I've been hosed by a good many non-celebrity garden variety dirtbags.... doubt it eases the.... frustration.... that is was a "celebrity". It REALLY pizzes you off when it was someone you trusted though.....
I'm thinking maybe there was some agreement as to promoting the product, or "testing" or "reviewing" the product. But was not carried through on the other end, thus the "send it back then or pay for it".
I knew several guides and outfitters who had been hosed by "celebrity" hunters, some with some fairly big names and in the "industry" for decades, some you'd be surprised who they were. "Free" hunts that were to be given write ups or used on shows, etc...... but never were. Not so much as a tip..... thanks for the hunt though..... see ya....
I'm a handshake kind of guy..... but am being constantly told (and proven naive) as to why signed agreements seem to be less.... misunderstood....
My guess is Mr. Nye would like to talk with some folks over, um, coffee about some thing as well...... =D
"Moving on" is why these clowns keep doing what they're doing.
