Hadley Creek BUSTED !!
Whitetail Deer
Didn't get many responses but there was a thread on it last week.
Best part is they busted them right before gun season and the clients could not gun hunt. Anytime one is busted for baiting the sites have to be cleaned up and cant be hunted for many days so the gun hunters could not hunt.
50 citations if these go through they should loose their license IMO
"Best part is they busted them right before gun season and the clients could not gun hunt."
I would feel bad for those clients who are completely innocent of any wrong doing.
Hope you killed a good one, JTV.
If the IL DNR is worried about CWD transmission and unnatural things that congregate deer, they should also ban bait plots and water tanks. Banning baiting but not bait plots or tanks appears to be a conflicted rationale....at least to me.
Did you fellas catch what the artical said.............. 6,400 acres. I would assume are no longer huntable this year due to the baiting. I wonder if they had enough ground to fit all of the gun hunters?
That’s right Jl lets ban all agriculture in Illinois
This put a bit of a smile on my face. There is a place here in CA that needs this treatment. I can't speak to Hadley Creek, but lots of guys who book with the local outfit know about the baiting and look the other way - anything to get a species for the magical 29. I am sure some of the gun hunters referenced above got burned by this, but you wonder how many are return hunters who rolled the dice and lost...
CWD is going to spread no matter what, we proved that coming out of Saskatchewan and into Southern Alberta, spread across the prairies of Alberta with no small food plots or baiting, they even spent over a million dollars killing the deer with helicopters, still it heads east and North.
"I would feel bad for those clients who are completely innocent of any wrong doing."
Yes that would not be good. I was looking at the Outfitter loosing all that income.
Transportation of an uncased bow? Ru kidding me? Wth danger is there in an uncased bow? Sorry for the rant a little too much Sangiovese ??
linehunter - same law here in MI. Kind of silly to me, but all bows must be in a case.
Hunt, IMO the Michigan hunting regs need to be overhauled by a citizen's group to get rid of the "gotcha" rules and ones like the bow case rule.
Nice reference, Kodiak! (Great movie.) Wonder how many whippersnappers will get it.
Not defending the outfitter here but the older combines don't work well when cutting corn that didn't grow to maturity, those cobs and kernels end up scattered all over a cut field. This year with the drought, lots of cut corn still laying in the fields. Not sure why the outfitter would need to pour corn on the ground, makes little sense with all the ag left around this year. Possibly overzealous Epo write-ups here with an axe to grind with this outfitter?
Bob, LE being over-zealous? Not a chance! The NFL protests put an end to that, right?
Valid point you make. My farmer has a 20 year old combine, which after seeing how much waste there was, I am happy.
Ha! Yup, same here Frank, its the most I have ever seen.
linehunter - same law here in MI. Kind of silly to me, but all bows must be in a case.
Here in MI you can't even lean an unloaded gun against a vehicle the way the law is written. A friend of a friend did that while he and his buddies were getting their cases out of their truck after a hunt to put them away and a dick GW came up and wrote the guy a ticket for it. Guns must be unloaded and in a case here during transport while out in Wyoming where I go every year you can have one loaded with one in the chamber while you're driving! What a difference between the two states!
Overzealous? Doubt it, probably like any other bust they write up everything possible because something will get tossed when they plea or go to court.
My guess is they are more concerned with the Unlawful Possession of Untagged Deer, Unlawful Possession of Another Individual’s Deer Permit, Failure to Report Deer Harvest Same Day as Kill, and Falsification of Residency to Obtain Permits.
Those are pretty serious
Yikes....I have never heard of a citation for an uncased bow......just so I am up to speed, are there any other states that have this requirement? While traveling across country to a hunt, my bow is always cased, but during the hunt, I frequently have it on the back seat of my pickup truck. If anyone knows of other states where this applies, please post them on here.....
Colorado has that law as well for ATV's, and they strictly enforce it!! Recurves or longbows have to be unstrung if on an ATV or UTV.
Totally different hunting cut fields with left over or scattered corn. Baiting concentrates the deer in a very specific area and it always makes for an easy bow shot distance. Sorry but I am someone who does not agree with baiting in most parts of the country and not because of the risk of spreading disease. Shawn
must be cased in MN after shooting hours.
Let me tell ya, when i hunted there in the early 2000's the owner of Hadley creek had all new farming equipment and i would bet he still has top if the line machinery today.
As for having your bow cased, we had to have ours cased or fixed in a way that prevented they from being shot. Most guys placed their release strap around the string and cables. We also had to keep them in the back of the truck bed during travel.
Medicine man,,Illinois has the uncased bow law,,2 of my hunting buddy's found out the hard way,,,
Well, they state that their secrect to quality animals Is they let 2&3 years old walk and have a 140 min, and if you shoot below 140 it's an additional 1,000 dollars. Just what I want should be an enjoyable hunt, pay 5k and then the stress of figuring out if a deer is 140, or it's a fine. Now, I guess their motto can be our secret is "We Bait'em" or " We Poach'em". So the true secret is out, all the tv celebs and anyone else who has shot a deer there in the past did so illegally, they just didn't get caught. Maybe some of the farmers down there will be discussed by this news and end their relationship. Hope the fines add up to a healthy sum, scumbags.
Thats a strong statement there LB. I killed 2 there and my buddy killed 1 back in the early 2000's before their rapid expansion and popularity. You still think we did something illegal? Got proof?
In IL, a bow sling will meet case requirements. I think the law is silly, but you don't have to have a hard sided case that you shuffle around with you.
Grunt-N-Gobble, strong statement and maybe should have qualified it with recently. However, your a victim of the association with an outfitter who is now known as a poaching outfitter, unfortunately for you and every other honest Hunter. Even though you may not have seen the bait how do you know there wasn't any?
Seems unfair to be guilty by association for recent events. The outfitter could have been excellent in years past with plenty of people who would vouch for them.
That doesn't mean their operation today will have the same experience as it provided for hunters in the past. IMHO that is why outfitter reports are critical, especially updated so fellow hunters have the latest information when making an expensive decision.
LB - Im not a victim of anyone. Can you 100% guaranty that you have never associated with anyone that at the time was always on the up & up but then turned to illegal activites after your association ended?
But you are right. I cannot 100% say there wasnt any bait around. But then who can with any outfitter anyone has ever hunted with? What i can say is that in my travels to and from stands and while tracking the bucks i shot and the one my friend shot, we saw nothing that would make us think the area was baited.
Grunt, as I stated, I should have said recently, my error. Sorry if you took offense, not my intent. However, the stigma that is now attached to that outfitter and deer killed out of that. Outfitt will always be suspect of being baited. Unfortunately for the honest hunters who may have been duped, it's a shame. I hope that if any of the true hunters out there sees this outfitter at the shows they will let it be known what scum they are. Just think of the fine a paying client who was unaware of bait is going to have to pay?
I’m sure of the hunters were innocent victims here. But I’m sure some knew of the baiting as well. This outfitter has had various problems for years. Look at the outfitter reports and you find a lot of one star reviews. It doesn’t take much research to figure out this is an outfitter to stay away from.
Time will tell if HC survives this. These offenses will show up for years on internet searches. If you go back far enough, you can find other offenses on a couple of HC individuals, but those were before the outfitting days if i remember correctly. I didnt learn of them until a few years after hunting there. I doubt the Durys knew of them, but it makes me wonder why we dont see DOD and HC together on the tube anymore.
Its ashame that possibly several hundred hunters were unknowingly hunting illegally. Im sure some knew but most probably didnt and if they are just learning this news, i can only imagine whats going through their heads.
Ok, Illinois case law in short.....
Can be in a soft case or hard case. Heck, it can be a laundry bag tied shut.
You can put an actual lock around your string and cables, or a zip tie.
Somebody mentioned a release..... We have been told that a release strap with an actual buckle is OK but a release strap with just Velcro is not.... Personally, the whole release thing will be up to the LEO you are dealing with. I would not risk it.
This is for transport in a vehicle. Have been told it applies to ATV's as well.
You are allowed an uncased bow after shooting hours while traveling from your hunting spot to your vehicle. Just don't have an arrow nocked.
And I'll throw this in cause people from out of state get busted every year for it..... Poisoned arrow use is not allowed in Illinois. Every year they bust guys who have their broadheads covered by condoms because of having poison applied.
if you want to hunt over bait , hunt in the states that allow it. Like Kansas that's where I kill them at. I hope they pull the rug from under them.
Is there anyplace that allows poison arrows? I thought that was illegal everywhere in the USA.
LOL re the cased bow law. many years ago, I was hunting in IL with the then, head of the DNR. I was walking out of the woods one evening and a game warden was waiting at the truck. He quickly said I was in violation as my bow was not rendered inoperable. I handed it to him and said, "Let' see you shoot it." He aid, "Where are your arrows? I had left my quiver in the tree as I planned to hunt there there next morning. I said, "I don't believe you can shoot a bow without an arrow, so, it is inoperable. But if you like, come back to camp with me and we can ask my host..." I named the director and that was the end of the discussion.
The last time I hunted NB with Chase I think they had a casing law
NB does have a "cased bow" requirement.
Only way most guys can shoot anything is over bait. Its getting downright pathetic.
T-roy. I stalk deer with a rifle in open country when I use one. At least I don't have to trail them across my corn pile in the hopes I made a good hit
Corn piles illegal in Iowa.
You can't bait bear in most states any more, I don't know why some states allow baiting and some don't. Bottom line is, you're not a very good outfitter/guide if you have to bait deer. It's just becoming too competitive and there's so much money involved any more, that people are willing to jeopardize their integrity and reputation to make money. Here in Ohio, you can bait on private land but not on public (thankfully cause all I hunt is public) ? Just make it illegal everywhere IMO.
Hunting over bait is perfect. If its not broke don't fix it. Come and live in Michigan and see how far you get without it. Let me some up it up for you. Going home with nothing
What do the deer eat in Michigan besides bait?
" Come and live in Michigan and see how far you get without it." Done been to too many states and Mexico blind to get deer to walk under me,bet Michigan is the same.Pull cards much?I would suggest stop and scout
Have a farm in Michigan and a farm in Southeast Kansas and don't need to scout.Pour bait set a camera and kill seems pretty easy to me.
Talked to my buddy who has allowed me to hunt his family's property in Pike County. Supposedly, this whole Hadley Creek case was started by the investigation into the shooting of a landowner's dog and it blew up from there.
Well since this has turned into a baiting ethics thread anyway:
Baiting, like most other methods of hunting, have a local or colloquial bias to them. If you suggested a deer drive in the west, with drums beating and guns blazing, you'd be tied to the hitching post in front of the local bar and kicked by every passerby. Running down a deer with a pack of hounds, then stepping on the exhausted deer's head to slit it's throat while it's being chewed on would be condemned by most, I think. (me included)
Whether something is acceptable or not is usually defined by what traditions the hunter was raised with. Here in BC, we cannot bait bears or waterfowl, but pretty much everything else is good to go. In Alberta, you can bait bears but not deer. Saskatchewan is pretty much open. Hunting methods have evolved, by region, from what was necessary to kill an animal, in the beginning for food. Traditions die hard!
For someone from a crop rich environment, where deer routinely, through between food and bedding to look down on another hunter in completely different circumstances is just ignorant self righteousness. "I don't bait, I just sit in the same tree, on the same trail, between the same field and bedding area that the deer very often use". And if that doesn't work, move to one of the other ten or more stands set in the same general area.
"I only hunt from the ground". That's great if you live where that works and you have enough animals to make it successful. Fine! But I'd like to see that person go the the big woods of northern Saskatchewan and kill a mature buck in twenty days of walking around. And for the truly pious that say, " I don't need to kill something to have a good hunt": if you go out with no expectation of killing something, then you are not hunting. You're on a nature walk, which is fine, enjoyable and commendable, but it's not hunting.
I've killed more bears in BC then I can remember, not one baited. Yet the same guy that would condemn me for baiting deer, will happily hop on a plane, get picked up and put in a stand, over bait that's been put there by somebody else and shoot a bear they didn't know existed and call it a great hunt. And I'm sure it was!
But by far the most sanctimonious hunters can be the guy that never hunts anywhere but his own little area and his own local species and has no desire or means to hunt elsewhere. That hunter can call down everybody else!! To him, the hunter that wants to experience more, the hunter that wants a mature animal, the hunter that wants exotics, the hunter that wants the nearly (expensive) unattainable, the hunter that wants to experience the world beyond home. Those hunters are all just chest thumping, dick measuring, egotists displaying their trophies only for bragging rights!!
The totally convinced self righteous truly are pathetic! A close second are the envious that hide it behind a facade of righteousness. Doesn't surprise me at all that a few guys hunt solo all the time. Who'd want to be with you!??
Happy hunting. And remember, you're doing it for you, not for me. And I'll do the same.
Stackem up, you couldn't be further from the truth. Even though a five gallon bucket of bait is legal in Michigan we don't bait at all and none of the folks I know there does either. My brother who only owns 40 acres of hardwoods kills a decent bucks every year, absolutely no bait nor is it even needed. As mentioned in another thread the bow being cased is a stupid law. I also wish they would make it 8 point or better for about 5 years with exception to a junior hunt. Mentality of most in that state is if it's brown its down. They have such good potential to have huge bucks, They just don't get over 2.5 years old very often.
"I don't bait, I just sit in the same tree, on the same trail, between the same field and bedding area that the deer very often use". And if that doesn't work, move to one of the other ten or more stands set in the same general area"
Eh....you kinda described hunting,you may want to edit.However,you spelled egotists,ignorant,pathetic,self righteous and sanctimonious close enough.......
Happy Holidays as well....
Hadley Creek...busted...again.
Why would anyone ambush deer over a corn pile? I just intercept them as they move to a food source. :)
Genesis; that was a dang prolific bunch of name calling in one post wasn't it, eh. Cranky 'cause I'm out'a back bacon, maybe.
Bottom line for me is hunters constantly mix up legalities, ethics, morals and opinion. If it is legal to bait where you hunt then it is not unethical. You may espouse the opinion that it should not be allowed, but you cannot declare someone else unethical if they do bait. Same as ground sluicing grouse with a shotgun will get you a welcomed supper in some camps and would get you tarred and feathered in others. It's not ethics its an opinion.
It's all about worms and dainty hand tied dry flies.
I hunted with Hadley Creek two times last year. Had a great time. Saw a lot of deer but know shooters. I'm glad I wasn't there when all this went down. I booked a couple more hunts but have requested my money back. I don't want to be associated with anything like that.
Hutch, please keep us posted to the outcome of asking for a refund. It would be good to know their response and if you ever get your money back.
in Illinois one cannot travel in a motor vehicle with a bow unless its cased or string locked so its not able to be drawn .also one cannot hunt over a corn or soy bean field that has been mowed,down on the ground AND NOT HARVESTED U can hunt over corn fields soy fields but if u run or place or lay the corn down it can be considered baiting
Must be why I hate to deer hunt with anyone else!! I am a dick by the way! LOL! Shawn
I read a lot of the post..My consensus is ...Breaking the law is breaking the law.. If the law states your bow needs to be in a case..Thats for everyone. If it says no hunting over bait .Then no hunting over bait. If you need to register your deer register it. Im sure there are plenty of sportsman the hunt and obey the laws. Even if it means you may not harvest an animal. It would seem to me, if I had a successful outfitting business .I wouldn't do things to tarnish my name..Nor would I allow my clients to be put in a compromised situation. Biker,,,its cut and dried..like you said..
I went on my first outfitted hunt with Hadley Creek of Illinois during the 2017 season. I hunted opening week and the first week of December muzzle loader. I saw deer on every sit and shot a couple of coyotes during the muzzle loader hunt. I decided that I would book a couple more hunts for the 2018 season and sent my money. I later discovered that they, Hadley Creek, had received citations for baited fields during the 2017 season. Luckily it wasn't while I was there. I sent them a request for a refund of my money. I heard nothing so I sent another email stating that if I didn't get some kind of response I would turn this over to my lawyer. Stacy Ward called me the next day and tried to explain the situation to me stating that they had put out Trophy Rock for trails cams. He stated that he knew it was illegal but everyone did it. I told him that I still wanted my refund. I didn't hear anything from them so I did forward all the info to my lawyer and he proceeded to send them an email along with a certified letter. This was back in March and I have to hear anything from them. So how is it that these people think that that money is theirs? They have not provided any services yet so it's not like they are out anything. Stacy admitted they were doing illegal things so I guess they're just criminals. Please pass this along to anyone who may want to hunt with them. They're obviously just in it for the money. Don't waste yours.
I don't know the terms of your agreement but I suspect you aren't getting your money back. My bet is they have no legal reason to return your deposit.
I would file a claim with conciliation court, in light of the illegal issues I would think a judge would rule in your favor. Ask your attorney what he thinks.
If you signed a contract I bet you're out of luck. You could call the Attorney Generals Comsumer Protection Office and ask them but they are usually restricted in what they can do.
