KE at 100 yards: xbow vs. compound?
Equipment
Does anyone have any actual KE data between crossbows and compound bows out at 100 yards?
That's a relative question. The weapon used has little to do with it. It all depends on the weight and speed of the arrow and bolt. Both can vary from setup to setup.
Thanks for the information. Because of the advertising some crossbow companies are promoting (long shots), Wyoming is currently re-visiting their crossbow regulations.
This question on KE came up and I wasn't sure how to answer.
Thanks for the information. Because of the advertising some crossbow companies are promoting (long shots), Wyoming is currently re-visiting their crossbow regulations.
This question on KE came up and I wasn't sure how to answer.
The site is very helpful, BUT I was trying to find hard core data (already published) from various set ups to compare one to the other at these extreme yardages.
I agree that it is irrelevant as no one (Levi, Lee, you, I, etc.) should be taking shots at 100+ yards.
So do you want this info to argue for or against crossbows? I don't have the factual data you want. But if anyone does, they may want to know your intentions.
http://www.bowhuntingmag.com/bow-reviews/crossbows-vs-compounds-comparing-apples-to-apples/
Still doesn't answer my question, but interesting read.
How many are shooting a 60# compound with a 540 grain arrow. Most are probably pulling 70 and shooting a 400 grain arrow. Regardless that’s a big difference in drop and ke. 4” drop at 40 yards is about what I noticed with my dads crossbow 20 years ago. His crossbow shot like a .22 and I don’t understand how someone misses with one.
I think there are many other questions that will come up in the debate in Wyoming and the energy difference will be a small part of the debate but it would be nice to see the facts.
CJ-Take equal weight arrows flying at equal speed upon impact and you should get the same KE. By the way, what is KE? I can't find it in the Periodic Table. Is that what the professors at A&M put on the ends of their rockets? How you doing? Still aging deer by sawing off the front legs?
Drop at a 100 yds is like 8+ ft. KE at that point is probably one of the less important issues.
Bowriter: Ever since you officially retired and think you forgot all about your sensitivity training? And by the way, my Wildlife Biology professors from the Fightin' Texas A&M Aggies would find your comments offensive. Chances are you may have hurt their little feelings!? :-)
As for sawing legs off deer to age them :-), I'm now removing the brain stems to determine the occurrence of CWD! :-(
If we knew the KE at 100-yards of any arrow, we would have data to argue for or against these types of shots.
Honestly, the KE is not relevant. It isn't even an archery term. We aren't using blunt shock to kill animals. We are using broad heads. Different broadheads require different amounts of energy to penetrate different locations of animals.
Asking to compare the KE at 100 yards of compounds and crossbows as a "general question" is like asking how much a house is worth without giving a description or location of the house.
I can give you examples of a compound having more energy at 100 yards, and I can give you examples of the crossbow having more energy at 100 yards.
LOL- I can't remember where we were but I still recall where we were but I still remember telling that crowd we aged deer by sawing their front legs off and counting the rings.
I really do need sensitty training. Since I retired and fired all my sponsors, I have become quite adept at pissing people off. If you are ever down this way, give me a call and we'll go fishing...or something. Since I quit drinking, I'm not near as much fun but I can still start a fight in a convent. You going to SEOPA in Oct?
Yeah, KE is a useful way to compare potential energy between bow or Bow models.
Comparing momentum data at 100yds; its all a function of arrow speed and weight....the faster/heavier the better.
But as many are saying, an arrows lethality is NOT just a function of arrow energy....an efficient BH can turn a low energy arrow into a very efficient killer.
Who says no one should shoot at 100yrds. Afraid of alil practice?
I doubt anyone’s afraid of ”alil” practice. KE, momentum, or any other factor, is of zero consequence when shooting foam or paper at 100yds. Animals are a different story.
I have taken over 100 deer with a compound bow. I recently got an xbow for my girls (10 & 11). Xbows of today are amazing. No practice and super accurate, no need to draw and 2x the KE of my bow. Unreal. They are 1/2 between a modern inline ML and a compound bow. My daughter easily took a small doe at 33 yards with complete confidence.
They need their own season which will never happen here in Ohio.
It isn't hard to understand. Targets don't move. Go ahead and practice and hit them all day at 100 yards. The animal at 100 yards that you shoot at has plenty of time to move before your well practiced arrow arrives. I don't care how good you are at stationary targets at 200 yards, those shots are predictable. Many more variables come into play when shooting at live animals.
“But as many are saying, an arrows lethality is NOT just a function of arrow energy....an efficient BH can turn a low energy arrow into a very efficient killer.”
Yup.... KE in the low-mid #30s has killed everything that won’t fight back and some that will...
CJ according to this guy... the further the better...
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1949186241980774&id=100006682506591
Why would it matter? A target doesn't care how much KE you have, and I know no "archery hunter" would shoot that far at a healthy animal... Right?
Shug....great link. That is too funny......
"At 10 yds the arrow doesn't build up enough kinetic energy...."
WHAT?
OMG...and that guy is a game warden?
I get a kick out of no one should be taking 100 yard shots at animal comments. Ask some of the worlds greatest goat hunters if they have killed goats or sheep at 100 yards and I bet you get quite a few that answer yes. I am not saying all of them have but again the guys who have killed 15-20 sheep or goats in far away places quite a few of them have. It has been done and why should anyone worry about it?? Shawn
at our club we have a 100 yard target set up the center is a pie plate you get three shots for $1.00 if you hit the pie plate you win all the money in th kitty, we have done this for six years all the money is still untouched. Heck i can't see that far anymore never mind taking a shot!, lol, lol, lol!!
Where is that club, when is the next shoot, and how much money is in the kitty? ;-)
"I get a kick out of no one should be taking 100 yard shots at animal comments."
Funny, I just shake my head at those idolizing those that take 100yd shots at animals. I'm not going to argue the virtue of taking 100yd shots at animals. I'm not going to change your opinion, and you're certainly not going to change mine.
Wyoming has been about as liberal as they come for what constitutes archery equipment. Crossbows have been legal basically since the beginning of time, and for several years it's been perfectly fine to use a mechanical cocking device. Just in the past few months, G&F has recommended to the Commission that crossbows be eliminated from archery season, except for those that are disabled. Their reasoning is that crossbows are now able to make 100yd shots (i.e. the Raven). The commission is now conducting a study to see if they concur with G&F's recommendation.
For those that see zero ramifications from taking 100yd bow shots, you might want to take another look as to whether there will be any consequenses...other than the obvious.
If they ban crossbows for being able to make 100 yard shots, then they better ban compounds too. That is an ignorant position by the G&F. If they wish to ban compounds from archery season, there are much better valid reasons.
"That is an ignorant position by the G&F."
When you have crossbows ads professing "meet your next rifle", "3" groups at 100yds", "see the crossbow that thinks it's a rifle", and people idolizing those that take 100yd bow shots at animals, you're opening a Pandora's Box you may regret. If you think G&F dept's aren't taking notice that "primitive weapons" are no longer primitive , you're sadly mistaken. Doesn't really matter what you think are more valid reasons.
Never said I idolized any buddy. I would never take a shot that far because I know my capabilities but I have seen many a shooters who can make that shot. I have a buddy that would win the money in the 100 yard pie plate shot most likely his first shot. He also won vegas a time or two. I just hate when someone who has never experienced hunting certain critters give an opinion that they do not have a clue about. Ask Tom Hoffman if he has killed any big game animal with a bow at 100 yards or more. Shawn
Once again, a 100yd pie plate shot and Vegas are one thing. That same shot at an animal is quite another. If someone makes a great shot on a 100yd pieplate, I'll be the first to pat them on the back and say "great shot". OTOH, that same person takes a 100yd shot at an animal and I'll just call him/her a damn fool. Don't care if the name's Tom Hoffman or Joe Blow. That's my opinion whether anyone else agrees with it or not.
Just because someone CAN do something doesn't mean they should. Most speedometers go to at least 120mph, most higher. Doesn't mean a reasonable person drives at those speeds.
Again, I'm not going to argue with you. I don't have to live with the consequences of shots others take, at least for now. All I'm saying is the people that decide what we hunt with, and for how long, are taking notice.
Funny.....when I hit my 3d target at 100 yards, he just stands there looking at me. A real deer on the other hand, takes a permanent nap ;)
"That is an ignorant position by the G&F." A compound bow is just as capable of making the same 100 yard shots. And unfortunately there are some guys that have already tried 100 yard shots on a live animal with a compound. Restricting a crossbow because it is capable of 100 yard shots is opening up a Pandora's box. So yes, IMO it is an ignorant position by the Wyoming G&F, because if you restrict crossbows for ONLY that reason, compounds might not be far behind.
So you guys are saying compounds are as easy to shoot and as accurate as crossbows? I say no.
Any bow or crossbow, is only as accurate as the guy touching off the shot ;)
No arguing and as said some folks can do it, some cannot. Its only an opinion but for someone to say what another should not shoot that far at an animal is like saying someone should not bait!! Oh wait, I say that all the time. Too each their own!! I also don't think anyone is saying a compound is as easy to shoot accurately as a crossgun, just saying there are some awfully good shots out there with a compound! Shawn
Like when Lee shot that sheep, at 88 yards, and it moved 3 feet from the time he released the arrow until the time the arrow got there and the sheep just happened to move to where the arrow went and connected. Yep, great shot.
That's called anticipation baby ;)
