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Here is a pic of poss twins. We have at least 3 more differnt spikes like this.

Thanks for any insight here.

Shoot Str8 and Stay safe Jeff

Jeff

There is no truth to the "rumor" that spike bucks have bad genes

Research from Mississippi State University suggested that yearling bucks's antlers were more a reflection of late birth date and poor nutrition rather than genetics.

Current research on the King Ranch in Texas suggests that even aggressive culling on a free-ranging deer herd at the 10,000-acre scale has little impact on antler quality.

Follow the link for the study with

I strongly believe this to be the truth. I'm not the expert on this but have done extensive reading on the subject. The late birthday of the spikes is due to the fact of high doe to buck ratios. Too many does around to breed first estrous cycle..hence the other's are breed a month later..that means later birthday..not as much time to get the needed nutrition to grow better first year racks. I see a lot of spikes in areas with high doe to buck ratios. Let 'em grow.

The answer is a resounding yes for the reasons stated above...most common is late birth.

It blows my mind how many people still believe that you should shoot all spikes. They are usually the same people who say "QDM can never work where they hunt because their neighbours will shoot all the deer"

First, consider the buck to doe ratio in your area. If there are not enough bucks to breed all the does, more does will get bred in their 2nd or 3rd cycle, resulting in fawns born a month or two later. The fawns need to build up their bodies first. Anters come after. Thus yearling bucks born later the previous year will not have as good of antlers their first rack.

Same with nutrition and healt. If they have poor nutrition or poor health, more goes to building up their bodies, and less is available for antler growth.

Take the UP of Michigan. I've hunted there once, and have several relatives that hunt up their annually. Spikes are real common for yearlings. This is a combination of poor buck-doe ratios and poor nutrition.

Another scenario is where doe fawns get bred before they are a year old. In some areas with great nutrition the fawns grow so fast, that it isn't that uncommon for doe fawns get bred at 6 months of age. If they get bred in Dec or Jan, their fawns won't be born until July or Aug.

We have a deer farm in Wisconsin. The deer get high quality feed. Every year we have yearling spikes. Most are the result of doe fawns being bred. As with all deer, some never reach monster status, but we have not noticed a notable difference at 3 years of age between spikes and forked yearlings. A number of years ago, we had a small spike as a yearling, and the following year, he was our best 2yr old with 14 points.

Before you anyone decides whether to cull spikes you must analyze the variables for your hunting area. Obviously, if you see a 170 pound deer with spikes, you should shoot it, but when it comes to yearlings, I'd say pass in most cases.

Spikes can, and often do become very nice trophy bucks when allowed to live to show their potential.

Besides, "culling" bucks that are "inferior" in most situations is just a term used by people who want to justify shooting little bucks and can't hold off the trigger. If you have gotten to the point in your herd management that you feel you need to cull bucks, I'm sure there are plenty of older bucks that would indications of inferior genes show to a much greater level.

Northwoods

Spikes can, and often do become very nice trophy bucks when allowed to live to show their potential.

Besides, "culling" bucks that are "inferior" in most situations is just a term used by people who want to justify shooting little bucks and can't hold off the trigger. If you have gotten to the point in your herd management that you feel you need to cull bucks, I'm sure there are plenty of older bucks that would indications of inferior genes show to a much greater level.

Northwoods

Why do you think so many hunters refuse to believe biologists and instead insist on going with "old wives tales"? I hear it all the time whether its about shooting does "I don't care what they say, if you shoot does your ruining the herd", to myths about once a spike always a spike. How come hunters are so skeptical about listening to those who have the degrees, and have done the research?

Jeff

I've been hunting Kansas deer since '73, and for about the first 15 years it was danged rare to ever see a spike. I talked with some serious bowhunters who'd never seen one.

Most of the yearlings were forkies, or six or eight pointers. A buddy in Manhattan shot a spike in about 89 and several of us drove over to see it because spikes were such a novelty. We were pretty sure it was a 2 1/2 year-old buck.

I remember bowhunting in the Ozarks in 90 and 91 and kinda hoping I'd finally get to see my first spike while I was in a treestand.

Then as time went on we all started seeing more and more spikes and sporks (1X2) and other messed-up heads.

Why? I can't believe the birth dates have changed that much through the years.

I've wondered if it was because with higher doe populations less-dominant bucks were getting to do more breeding.

Last year our farm had a huge-bodied, finger-thick spike that was probably 3 1/2....you're saying it'll probably grow into a 150?

You really don't know the trophy potential of a deer until he hits about 3.5, by then there should be good antler growth. At that age if he isn't carrying anything, it is time to start culling if you are into QDM and can manage your land.

First antlers include button bucks and all those with antlers of less tghan 3". We used 3" because that was standard most wildlife agencies used as determining a "legal" buck. Hard antlers applied to those with antlers over 3" and most often was applied to those bucks that were 1.5 years old.

Now.

It was not at all uncommon to see bucks with from four to eight points on their first set of hard antlers. Six points being quite common. But spikes probably came in second in terms of numbers of bucks with their first ard antlers. In no way were they inferior across the board. As it is with any buck...or human, yes, some were inferior. But in areas where all deer had the same nutritional opportunities and same weather, we found that there were some superior animals and some inferior animals and some average animas.

And at 18 months we could not tell which were which. In fact, there was very little we could determine from antler growth until the third set of hard antlers.

So, bottom line, if it is legal, shoot a spike if you want to but don't do it thinking you are culling an inferior deer.

Of course that was backin the dark ages when we thought you could tell a deer's age by coutning the points. It took a while be fore C.J. taught me diferently.

Besides, as RUPE showed above, studies on the King Ranch in Texas have pretty much shown that intensive culling has no effect.

Why would I want to waste a tag on a buck that I won't be proud of, when it will have no effect on the herd other than further skewing the buck-doe ratio?

I had a "discussion" with a friend of mine about this a while back. He was shooting all the spikes he saw because he heard that it was bad genetics. I told him that I "thought" it was due more to late breeding but had no proof to offer him.

Thanks again!

BOWSITE IS AWESOME!

Shoot STR8 and Stay safe

Jeff

You make a good point, it is very hard to tell the age of a deer, even if you have studied numerous photos of deer that the age is actually known. For me in KS, body size tells me a lot. Passing up lots of smaller bucks and studying them helps too.

Good luck this fall.

If you were to stand a yearling spike and a yearling 8 point side by side, and you were told to pick one that you could harvest in 4 years which one would you pick.

The idea is that there is a higher probability that a yearling racked buck will be a trophy as opposed to a spike that has been exposed to the same conditions.

That doesn't mean that there is any more or less trophy potential, but the probability is higher for the bucks that have already developed a rack.

Bowhunting World Magazine has an article this month on how to judge age. They have the pics with known ages and very good details on signs to look for. I've been seeing a nice 11 point at my state park and he looks just like the 3.5 year old in their pic. Very good article.

I'm sure no expert, either. I have only been messing with these ole deer since 1954. But I do believe I can "field age" a deer pretty well, does or bucks either one. The antlers have zip to do with it.

It's kinda like the shower at the health club. You have to look at more than one thing.

But there is only one accurate method-jawbones and teeth-and that is accurate only up to a point.

But I do have a failsafe method to determine what deer you should kill. Kill the one you want to kill.

Spikes can grow into monster bucks....maybe some will stay spikes but why shoot them if there is the potential for a couple of them to grow into pope and young quality.

We implemented new rules at the "Sacred Woods" this year. You must shoot a doe first. Then you can take a buck, but it has to be a mautre deer 4x4 or better and outside its ears. Even though this guy is not outside his ears, if he is in bow range, he is going down.

Talk to you later

Shoot Str8 and Stay safe

Jeff

No doubt to me the first rack is more indicative of drop date