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What happened to overdraws?



By: Scooter
Posted: 23-Dec-09

I knew alot of people that shot hese in the 80's...Did the over draw go away because it is unsafe (not enough grains per pound or shooting hands) or was it just a fad?

Scooter


By: Ziek
Posted: 23-Dec-09

They were too touchy to shoot. Mounting the rest behind (or in front) of the pivot point (where your hand contacts the grip) magnifies form problems, especially torquing the bow. The only advantage was shooting lighter arrows. With carbon, that is no longer a problem and guys are beginning to realize that light arrows aren't the best for hunting anyway.


By: Pig Doc
Posted: 23-Dec-09

I'm no expert on this but I don't see much difference between where the arrow rested on the old overdraws vs. where they rest today on the fall aways and whisker biscuits. I have 3 bows with fall away rests and with all of them the arrow rests well behind the riser.


By: diamondLangus
Posted: 23-Dec-09

alot of fallaway rests do the same thing as an overdraw. So there isn't a need for one with these kind of rests.


By: Ty
Posted: 23-Dec-09

They died with the invent of carbon arrows.


By: Ziek
Posted: 23-Dec-09

"...well behind the riser."

You guys must be setting up your rests different than me. My rest (QAD Ultra LD) is only 3/4" behind the berger button hole. That's not much of an overdraw, and admittedly, the fall away rests minimize the problem. Why would you not set the rest as far forward as possible?


By: Pig Doc
Posted: 23-Dec-09

"Why would you not set the rest as far forward as possible?"

Why would I? I shoot a Ripcord and this is where the bow tech put it. The trough of the rest is about 2" behind the berger button hole. It could be moved forward about another 1/2" but that's it.

I shoot 2315 aluminum arrows. I have a 30" draw and my arrows are 28 1/2". I shoot tight groups with field points and Magnus Stingers. I don't see any reason to change.


By: Purdue
Posted: 23-Dec-09

Didn't Terry Ragsdale set some records using an overdraw? I don't know, just asking.


By: bigguy
Posted: 23-Dec-09

Back in the early 90's most good bows came with an AMO speed rating around 235 feet per second. XI advertised 237 FPS AMO Standard and 282 FPS overdraw. Both were 30" draw length and 60 lbs. The standard arrow was 540 grains and the overdraw was 360 grains. AMO recomended an arrow of at least 6 grains per lb. Realistic speeds for hunting were 170-195 ft per second. In 1993 Matt Mcpherson came out with a Solo cam that shot a full length 650 grain XX75 2317 at speeds around 235FPS. We thought we were shooting rockets! With the technology in todays bows, they are shooting 50% faster than a mere 15 years ago. Arrows are weighing less than the old overdraw arrows were. I for one sure like that broadhead in front of my grip instead of 3 inches behind it! Although we shot with lots of arc(You could actually see your arrow fly), penetration was never a problem with those heavy pipes!


By: Ziek
Posted: 23-Dec-09

"...where the bow tech put it."

That's the least compelling reason I know for the way your bow is set up. If it works for you, great! But you're shooting an overdraw which is more critical of form. It may not be an issue on the range, but forgiveness in a hunting bow is very desirable. Without seeing your bow, I'll take your word that it HAS to be that far back. If it does, I would choose something different. I shoot a Mathews and my wife a Hoyt. We have different drop down rests and both are within 3/4" of the berger hole. You don't have to put up with that much overdraw.


By: Ziek
Posted: 23-Dec-09

If your form is PERFECT, it doesn't matter. If you think your form IS perfect EVERY time, you're delusional.


By: Gundy
Posted: 23-Dec-09

"And if you think an overdraw affect accuracy in a real world situation you are dilusional. If anything an overdraw puts the point of the arrow over your wrist which would increase accuracy."

My personal opinion is that you are 100% incorrect. An overdraw in effect acts the same as shortening the brace height of a bow. They were/are inherently less accurate.

Carbon arrows put an end to all that nonsense.


By: Spike Bull
Posted: 24-Dec-09

I agree that carbon arrows offered the spine neccesary to get the desired arrow weight without dramatically shortening the length.

I do believe a cogent argument can be made that an overdraw, which MOST guys ARE actually shooting because of the design of modern rests, is at least as accurate as a rest right at the Berger hole.

I will set up with ladderstand on that one. Bad form results in lesser accuracy regardless of the overdraw.


By: dustyvarmint
Posted: 24-Dec-09

Yes, most rests today whether biscuit or fall-away are still set up in overdraw mode; 3/4" to whatever.

I still think there is some merit to the idea that the pivot is above the wrist and not above the hand's contact point to the bow.

happy hunting, dv


By: Ziek
Posted: 24-Dec-09

Torquing the bow is one of the most common form flaws committed by bowhunters, especially in a hunting situation. The greater the overdraw, the more hand torque will effect the shot.


By: Beendare
Posted: 24-Dec-09

Who says overdraws are dead....just look at the brace height of some of these speed bows.

Had a bow many years ago with an 8 1/2" brace[as I recall] then put a 3" overdraw on it which is the equivalent of some bows today.

I dind't find the OD bows critical on the range but sure saw the signs in the field.


By: x-man
Posted: 24-Dec-09

"Torquing the bow is one of the most common form flaws committed by bowhunters, especially in a hunting situation. The greater the overdraw, the more hand torque will effect the shot."

Exactly!


By: Pig Doc
Posted: 24-Dec-09

Hey Ziek, I trust my "bow tech". He is a Mathews dealer, owns his own shop and has shot competitively for years. I can't think of anyone else I would rather have set up my equipment.

I see you shoot a Switchback DXT, which has a 7" brace height. The distance from my string to the trough of my rest is 7". If your rest is 3/4" from the centere of your berger button your effective brace height is less than mine.

I'm not trying to argue but I will go back to my original point which was that most setups today are really overdraws. I watched Randy Ulmer on Bowhunter TV and noticed his rest was also set up behind the riser.


By: Ziek
Posted: 24-Dec-09

Pig Doc, I wasn't trying to 'dis' your tech. Some actually do know what they're doing. But just because they work there doesn't necessarily indicate that they do know anything.

It's impossible to not have some overdraw with most rests, unless your shooting a flipper with berger button. My point is that you should try to minimize it. Most can be set up with only about 3/4".

Brace height is NOT measured from the rest and is not the problem. See my above post.


By: FXRScotty
Posted: 24-Dec-09

I still have a Jennings Uniforce set up with an over draw I bought new set at 70#.(still have a doz of new arrows with 5" feather flecth stored in the box) I just made it my back up bow this year when I bought My bowtech Allegience. Great shooting bow and harvested many deeer with it! But seems long, heavey, & slow now. Just like me! Scotty.


By: Matt
Posted: 27-Dec-09

"Torquing the bow is one of the most common form flaws committed by bowhunters, especially in a hunting situation. The greater the overdraw, the more hand torque will effect the shot."

I tend to agree with that.


By: TONTO
Posted: 27-Dec-09

This conversation is great! However, it makes me feel really old!!! :) I still have my old High Country with the original overdraw on it. This old bow is one that I shot competitively for several years, back in the 80's. I won numerous 3-D tournaments, some state titles and even a World Championship qualifier. Wow, those were the days!!! It is kind of funny how I kind of lost touch with the modern high tech stuff over the years; I guess because this old bow shot great, and was pretty much maintainance free, I did not need to look for a new bow and surprised with all the new technology. Heck, I still have the same string and cables that were put on over twenty years ago, and it is still in tune! How many bows can hold up that long, with the same strings and still shoot great? The old High Country still puts a arrow right where it is supposed too, and has disposed of many a trophy over the years. Some great elk, bear, mulies, whitetails and even some exotics like big old wild hogs. I hope everyone finds a bow that fits them well and holds up for many years of great hunting like my old overdraw bow! I am going to teach my boy how to shoot this one, and hopefully it will last many more years! Good hunting to all!


By: bgfisher
Posted: 27-Dec-09

Many young shooters have never shot any of the bows from the 80's and early 90's. Therefore they have little experience with overdraws, as they were known. The fact is that most of todays bows with highly reflexed risers exhibit the same characteristics as those earlier bows with overdraws. Those bows of yesteryear had mostly straight or reflexed risers and taller brace heights than today's bows. So the reality is that today's modern bows with highly reflexed risers are designed with the overdraw built right in.


By: midwest
Posted: 27-Dec-09

"So the reality is that today's modern bows with highly reflexed risers are designed with the overdraw built right in."

As was said earlier, overdraw and brace height have nothing to do with each other. Overdraws increased speed by allowing the shooter to use a shorter, lighter arrow. Short brace height bows increase speed by lengthening the power stroke of the bow.


By: Muzzy
Posted: 27-Dec-09

I still have my PSE mach 4r. That bow is way faster shooting then my Bear Instinct. It is a smooth shooting bow and I would still be using it if it wasn't for a bad shoulder. The letoff is 50 percent if I'm not mistaken. I still shoot it in the off season but when the weather is colder I go with the Bear.

I was accurate to 40 yards with that bow... I think anyone with bad form will not shoot well no matter if it is with an overdraw bow or a modern bow.


By: bgfisher
Posted: 27-Dec-09

midwest, I stand corrected. I forgot that little detail.


By: guidermd
Posted: 28-Dec-09

i only shot an overdraw because there was a hot looking chick in the ad selling it.


By: martinman
Posted: 29-Dec-09

These guys today wouldn't know how to shoot the old 48" ATA, small round wheels, 30% - 50% letoff, 10" brace height bows. My first compound bow was a Jennings T-Star at 30% letoff and I thought it was awesome. My first recurve in the early 70's was a green fiberglass Bear and the 2nd was a Pearson Colt 35# wood bow, wish I still had it.


By: Spike Bull
Posted: 29-Dec-09

Most short brace height bows actually extend the power stroke by allowing a guy to pull the bow back farther by moving the handle closer to the shooter. They use a reflexed riser, which is to say that the riser is not straight but puts the handle behind the straight line from limb root to limb root (where it leaves the riser). This makes a faster but somewhat harder to shoot bow. Fortunately, engineers have come up with some ways to enhance the shootability of our faster bows.

A deflexed riser (common in Hoyt target models) arcs forward which puts the handle in front of the straight line from limb root to limb root. This makes an inherently easy to shoot bow.


By: Pig Doc
Posted: 29-Dec-09

Back to the original question,"I knew alot of people that shot hese in the 80's...Did the over draw go away because it is unsafe (not enough grains per pound or shooting hands) or was it just a fad? "

My contention remains that most bowhunters today still shoot overdraws.


By: aussie
Posted: 01-Jan-10

Pig Doc. I'm with you on this one. most of the guys i know have whisker biscuits or drop aways and there arrows are 3 inch shorter than there draw lenght. My own set up is 25inch arrows, 540 grain in weight and my draw lenght is 27inch with whisker biscuit. I could cut another inch of the arrow but i am very happy with it the way it is. Our agreement remains that most bowhunters today still shoot overdraws. Paul


By: ahunter55
Posted: 01-Jan-10

ahunter55's embedded Photo

I shot a Groves Spitfire recurve in the mid 60s with a built in overdraw cut away for your broadhead to come into the riser. Shot a Bear & a couple Deer with it with no problems. If I remember correctly I used Forgewood Arrows with it & a MA3 Blade. Worked great. object was a shorter, smaller arrow to get a little more speed. overdraws been around a long time & someone is always trying to Re invent something...


By: JOEBO
Posted: 01-Jan-10

Lawsuits Having a broadhead behind your hand


By: Thunderflight
Posted: 01-Jan-10

The Average Whisker Biscuit is set about 1 inch back to make it a "mini over draw" and its the worlds msot popular style rest.


End of Topic
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