It was brought up that the Outdoor channel has caused a significant increase in land prices because of all the hunting shows showing footage of big monsters being killed.
I disagreed with that comment that one hunting show could not possibly raise the prices so high. Not that many people watch the outdoor show?
But it got me thinkning (I know scary right there) but what all in the hunting industry has actually affected the prices of land to rise and what percentage.
As I look at it there is way more than the Outdoor Channel that could affect the prices of land. These are not in any particular order.
1. Outdoor Channel/hunting shows/hunting dvd sales
2. Pope & Young club
3. Boone & Crocket club
4. SCI
5. Bowsite/archertalk/huntingfool.net/other websites
6. Field and stream/other magazines
Let's be honest the only thing two things that can raise prices are 1. supply and demand or 2. a corrupt government.
Is the true cost of raising these western states property values so high because of the hunting industry? I have been looking at moving to Colorado (Or should I say I wasuntil gun laws passed last week) for about a year now for work. Here in Golden, Colorado not hunting land but subdivsion only is sky high. I currently live in what is considered the 28th best town to live in inn the USA and I have 4 bedroom 4 bath 2500sf 1/2 acre home value about 225K. This same home in Golden, Colorado not near as good as school district would cost me about 470-520K.
Now both homes sitting on 1/2 acre lot?
Has the hunting industry caused this or is it the increase in population and the fact that the good Lord isnt creating anymore land in the USA?
What factors do you believe are raising the cost. I will say that hunting has increased land values but I would imagine that is less than 1/2 of 1% of the total increases.
Which of my list above in regards to hunting do you think has had the largest impact on land values because of hunting???
Your thoughts???
Anywhere that land can be tilled for a cash crop, is going to steadily inch up as long as commodities prices stay similar, or go up
Same thing with pasture. Beef is high, so pasture prices go up.
We recently did closed bidding for several hundred acres of tillable--for rent only, and to sell pasture land. We were VERY surprised with the prices we saw, and what people were willing to pay
Supply and demand.
Bake
When I was 10 years old walking in the woods behind where we lived I knew I wanted my own land. We didn't own our own home until I was 14. It was in me to want my own property. If you really want to be a land owner you find a way. Every thing to the negative just proves you're not really serious.
Bought my first piece at age 30 in 1984 and paid $841. dollars per acre. The land is currently for sale for 20K per acre. I may even take 19K, LOL!
The price went up because of 29 years of appreciation and rich people wanting to build "weekend" homes around where I'm at since it's only 2 hours from NYC.
For all 29 years I enjoyed the property with family and friends. If I was still looking to expand I would take these proceeds and buy a farm in the Midwest but I'm cooling my jets and cruising the rest of the road so I'll use the money to supplement my retirement.
Gotta love freedom and opportunity in America. It worries me that so many of our youth is asleep worrying about their profile on Facebook as their opportunities are being chipped away by an out of control Govt. I digress! Good luck all!
Yes its supply and demand but its also tv land that put many of these places on the map. yes it was only a matter of time !!!
Charlie prices are up from 1980 but way down from 4 years ago , Nobdody bulidng new homes these days buildings permits way down !Friends have land for sale upstate no bites and there giving it away !
Recreation has certainly increased land prices in my area. You didn't used to have to own land to have some access. There are 3 ranches that I used to hunt on that have leased out to outfitters. We had a great arrangement with each one. We got to hunt, we took some extra does when they got too thick, and we came up to help fence or brand or build the new shop, whatever the landowners needed that year. But the outfitters finally won, and the landowners couldn't turn down the 5-10,000 per year lease fees. As we kept building relationships and eventually losing out to the leases, we realized that we needed to own some land if we want our kids and grandkids to be able to enjoy the outdoors the way we have. Many more are coming to the same realization, and that increases the demand for any land that is in elk habitat or allows better access to public ground. It also makes anyone who owns land with any elk poop on it think that his land is worth a lot more than it is...
When you start talking about the BIG ranches, it is a whole different story. The rich guys who are buying up 50,000 acre places are hoping to enjoy the land, get a small return from ranching/farming, and land can be a very stable investment.
When you get to really productive farm ground (think Midwest) the farmers are willing to pay a whole lot more for land when corn is $8 per bushel than when it is $4 per bushel. Add some 180" whitetails, and the price goes up that much more...
Charlie your sitting on ground for $20k+ an acre! No wonder the country is all jacked up! These CEO's that get fired for doing a shitty job and still get tens of millions of dollar settlement packages is totally screwed up. You do a bad job and get fired...out the door dude your on your own. I was in Florida a few weeks ago and went on a boat tour of the Ft. Lauderdale canal system. There was a piece of dirt on a corner with nothing on it. The ground covered no more than 1/2 acre at the most...$12,000,000 was the asking price.
From your list I would rate No. 1 the highest Kelly. I know I'm going to ruffle some feathers, but the greed of many in the land brokerage and real estate industries is a big part too. Yeah, it's supply and demand, but a lot of times that demand is artificially inflated. When I was looking for a home, it seemed that very few really knew their chit either; most being worse than the stereotypical used-car salesman. I'm just gonna stop at that.
With Charlie quoting his land prices I'm beginning to think Bowsite might sit right up there though! ;^)
The guy I bought my land from in 1984 bought it himself in 1968 and made 7 times his money in 16 years. He was very happy at the closing and I was scared my investment would not work out. Very few of my friends could afford to buy land but I always shared what I had with friends and family. It always felt right.
I guess America is changing because I always believed I could get my little piece of the good life by working hard and now what I see is people wanting the government to "even things up" and a dislike for those who strive to do well. I hope this country will turn around.
I wrote this to encourage others to go for it. Nothing has changed about long term land investment and that's what I wanted to point out. I am sorry if it comes across as bragging. That was not my intent. Go for it always!
And, they're not making any more of it!
No need to Micro analyze it in commodity cost etc... Just Macro analyze it by realizing it is simply a supply and demand thing driven by the fact it has never devalued, nor will it ever. The one constant is people want it and investment groups have figured it out. Take a look at some stock options, you'll see it ever increasing from this day on, just like it has for the last 15 years.
God Bless
I like you had the desire and drive to buy land and I let nothing stop me from achieving my goal. If I was a young man today which I'm not, I would do it all over again regardless of the price of land or obstacles that might be present in this market. I find your story to be more of an inspiration and not bragging.
Congrats to you for your success.
Folks ask me why i would buy a farm in Iowa , I cant hunt it but every 3 years , who cares more to bowhunting then whitetails , plus its a solid investment price was right its a no brainer. Since then i have bought another tract out there , I look for parcels with some row crops /TIMBER to help offset with the cost .
Ive done without a lot past few years in order to buy land , i have no kids so its a lot easier for me ,but i love owning land its great walking it working it If i had to choose id give up my house to have more land !!!
Some places are easier to find deals then others , Ive been looking at ohio thats a tough one to find a good hunting tract for the right price .
Why? Because it created a bunch of hunters pounding their chest saying Look How Big of a buck/bull I killed!!!
That created competition in the hunting worrld. Yes I am guilty of it too. Look at my facebook wall and you will see me with my BOB as my profile picture and my Big POW bear in the background pict. WHY??? Because I want to show everyone how big and how good I am!!!!
That is the truth with all humans we worry how we appear to others. Remember high school you got your year book whats the first page you went to? Your photo, You wanted to see how you looked to others...
We are all enemies by our own demise when it comes to hunting lands. But I still say it is the communities housing market that is the real driver. If I can get a 1/2 acre plot in a subdivision for 45-70K then hell yes 10-20K is a steal per acre for recreational property.
Just my two cents.
Charlie I thought you were bequethed a huge parcel at one point for some reason?
My father taught Math at a Prep School and his last year at age 65 he made $19,000. That's $1,583 dollars per month and he and my mother raised four kids. I paid for my college education from my summer roofing and painting business and small college loans. I was raised by great parents never felt I lacked for anything but if I wanted something I had to get myself.
I don't begrudge anyone for inheriting money but the personal satisfaction I got from doing it myself was magic! It's not really that hard. Believe me if I can do it many of you guys can do it too. I am small potatoes compared to many.
The landowner I bought from in 1984 let me put half down and pay the balance in the next 36 months. If I missed my payments he got his land back. It worked for him and it worked for me but I had to propose the idea. Be creative!!!
Great post everyone a lot of great input here.
Population from the 80's to now in the US has grown by 25~30 with most of that growth in the south and mid-west.
Simple supply and demand for a commodity, whether it is a building lot, farming land or recreational property...more people competing for the same space drives prices up.
I have attended many a land auction. Spent almost 20 years buying it for timber reserves. It has went from a market where the natural resource value plus a modest dirt cost would buy most any property around. Demand for it for other reason has sky rocketed it. Development for housing, and personal ownership is the biggest contributors I have seen. No real increase in commercial in these parts. However, initial investment LLC's on smaller levels has become a big player because demand continues to rise. Unfortunately, the effect is the average person cannot expect or hope to afford it.
If we ever get out of this manifested credit world where wealth is measured on paper versus income/debt ratio, things will change for the average joe. A finical system where wealth is traded by plastic and scores, determines that only a few get that opportunity. Gone are the days of a handshake, a meeting, pay check stubs, and a promise granted by signature to pay a note.
Today, your purchase power is determined by your ability to convince lenders you intend to pay, but you also intend to keep playing. It is the results of a pencil pusher determining your likely hood to continue to borrow. Banks don't make as much money off a guy looking to buy, pay it off and hand it down as they do to the investment minded borrower intent on buying it, to flip in time, to only buy again. For the few that can manage it, it is great on the borrowing end to. Don't mistake the facts as anything but the facts. No problem doing that if you are capable. But, it isn't the system as intended.
This is the single biggest reason a 720 credit score used to be considered great but, only low scale dependable now. Banks like credit, it makes them richer. A guy or company promising to borrow additional loans gets the rates and terms that mae it affordable for that reason. Ain't the socialist system we are working to become ust grand. God Bless
My aunt recently sold her farm to the highest bidder. There were quite a few hunters that were interested in it, but they lost out to a large farm operation that made the highest bid. Since it was sold they bulldozed out all the fence rows, and most of the woodlots, and have put in irrigation. Its pretty much just one big ag field now.
I work part time for a farm over near jackson, that the owner leases out hunting privileges. He gets like 6 grand per year for the hunting leases which is too expensive for me. But he says it barely pays his taxes. He makes his real money from crops. He's always telling me his ideas for increasing his tillable land. To which I just smile and nod. It's his land not much I can say about it.
Just this year I leased some hunting land thats in a more urban type of area. Its not really farm land per say, although I have food plots. If you ask me, the hunting is better here than on the farm where I work. I sure see more deer, and turkeys, and it cost me less than a lease at the farm which I would have to share with others. And I have this spot all to myself.
Kind of weird I guess if you think about it. I actually live, and work in a rural farming community, but hunt in a more populated suburban type of area. It costs me less money, and the hunting is better. Go figure.