Contributors to this thread:
For those of you who had deposits in for next year what are you planning on doing? I guess Technically we have not been screwed over yet?
I have some opportunities now to set up a different hunt next year in the US but it will conflict with my current Tuttulik Reservation. I am still not sure if I want to wait this out and see what happens or just cut my losses now and accept the fact that my money is gone for good.
Finally, has anyone heard anything new? Anything? Anything at all?
I am not going to let the possibility of a rescheduled hunt get in the way of any plans that may come up in the interim.
I'd hold off on buying those plane tickets..........LOL
when is your next deposit due. That's one payment I'd be a bit tardy on that is for sure.
after seeing what they did this year, i would not even consider hunting with em next year, if they, ahem, get their finances in order. no way in hell
Tell us what circumstances could possibly come up that would cause you to send them any more money and continue planning a trip in 2009. If it were me, I wouldn't risk the trip to Montreal even if they said I could pay the hunt balance once I got into camp. If I got robbed from a 2008 hunt, I may give it a go if they regrouped and made an offer, since I was paid in full. But with just a deposit down, I think I'd have to walk away.
Yea, and so am I,--unless we get a hunt next year.
I know of an extended family that had over 20 hunters on a reunion hunting trip with Tuttulik. They are out over $100,000.
So far, all we have is empty promises-- with the emphasis on the word empty.
im going back to golf its cheaper lol
when is the next meeting to discuss options
I think that the only option you will find is that there are no options.
LBB
I have my first payment in for a Sept.09 hunt. I think I will cut my losses and look to hunt in the U.S
Would you 09' guys go if they said you could pay the balance after you return?
Would you 09' guys go if they said you could pay the balance after you return?
"Would you 09' guys go if they said you could pay the balance after you return?"
Absolutely! I had a good time the first time I went. I would love to go again.
The silence is deafening and unforgiveable. There is absolutely no reason for the lack of communication. I am also disappointed with the booking agents involved. They were involved in collecting the money. I understand they are no longer involved with the company however, they took the money from their clients. Their obilgation to their clients did not end.
Reputable booking agents do not desert thier customers when things go wrong.
Neither group will ever receive any of my money.
Would you go in "09" if you could pay when you return?
Yea Right!
Me a Lion and a Tin Man are going in "09" about as much chance as paying after the hunt!
I would go if I had to pay the ballance apon arrival. they alread have my deposit
told you guys you see Peoples true colors when there is a problem, Bearman and Boney took our money in the states. And all i get from Bearman was a lame message Just telling me not to go to canada ,,, Not reason why Nice guy ... Just take my money and run . Ive called Boney many times and its stll the same message from sept 12 ..... And we should fell bad for these two guys because they lost there Jobs ,,They made money of us And were booking clients for 09 ,10 hunts just weels before this happened
is anyone doing anything of consequence on this issue other than the obligatory caribou forum posting by one or two folkd every 24 hours outlining that they are mad at a guy in MN and a guy in TN and no new information is out there?
i'm not sure this will get it done for you.
Where are we on a Class action suit?
We talk about Boney and Lou being quite, well Pat has been very quiet in all of this as well. Pat I would think you would have more influence in being heard than all of us being the owner of this website. Any news on your end.
I am about ready to file my own suits. I can tell you this, any US lawyer will target the US citizens involved first. In my opinion, the "booking agents" are the same as a travel agent in this case. They took the money and no good or service became of it. We will probably end up sueing them, and then they will have to sue Tuttulik. That is probably the only way we will ever see one cent.
-dan
Dan's right about that....booking agents would be the ones sued by all lawyers. The case would name all parties to suite together, and they'd go after the money where ever it can be had from.
This would get real messy real fast for many people involved.
Hope this is coming to some resolution fast.
serb
I am a booking agent. I own a franchise of an international booking agency. We are REQUIRED TO OFFER SPORTSMAN'S TRAVEL INSURANCE on every trip we book. If Travel Insurance had been purchased within 15 days of the initial deposit for these trips, the Travel Insurance Company would have paid off. Many of my clients have declined coverage for less expensive trips, but for the kind of money you are talking about, it would have been well worth the extra $250-300 for the peace of mind.
Sorry to hear of everyone's loss.
Pat, I agree that this isn't doing most outfitters from Quebec any good but on the other hand I don't see it hurting all outfitters from Quebec. I think it is important that we keep in mind that Tutulik and Nunami were in fact both owned by the same coop. I don't mean this as a low blow by any means but you had to realize that you chose to hunt with someone who had already had a company go bankrupt once before. That was your own decision to do so. Both companies went under while Jack Hume Adventures Inc. amongst a few other outfitters in Quebec had been around as familly owned and operated business decades before either of them even started up. Do you really think the outcome would have been different any where else in Canada or the USA had any other business gone bankrupt? You can't get blood from a stone! I for one had my hunter's deposits available in the bank and if I had been forced to cancel my season they would have gotten their money back. As a matter of fact I did cancel my late season trophy hunts this year and every single hunter booked with us for that hunt was offered a full refund. No questions asked! Those who wished to receive a refund have already been sent their full refund, while some others have transferred their hunt to 2009. I might also point out that some of them booked through a booking agent and that the booking agent actually gave them back the 10% commision he had charged me on their hunt. I think it will be important for hunters to choose their outfitter and/or booking agents wisely in the future as this could happen to anyone but it is certainly less likely to happen to some than to others. It really has nothing to do with the location where you are hunting. Just my two cents worth...I figure I've been around long enough to express my opinion when I feel it might be worthy. A terrible lesson it was for anyone involved but it has nothing to do with anyone else in Quebec. It has everything to do with the company you booked your hunt with. Sorry, but that's just the way it is. I can only speak for myself but I certainly have nothing to do with this mess.
Richard Hume
I respect your views Jack, but it still won't change the fact that perception is the key here, and the perception of hunting in Quebec for americans...for caribou is going to take an azz whooping.
Just wait till this hits print in mags all over the country. There will be editorials writen by hunters all over the place to keep US dollars....IN THE US. Sorry but thats just how it will play out. Just watch. You see just a hint of the Canadian resentment here on bowsite.....now just watch as it goes further into other forums, and then to print media.
For your sake, and the sake of other hunting operations in Quebec in particular.....you'd better hope and pray for Tuttulik to get this righted.....and soon.
Richard Hume,
I just finished reading that Quebec does approximately $16MM annually on US caribou hunters. I know that Tuttulik is only a small fraction of this, but if we hunters who are affected by this mess want any resolution, we need to lump all outfitters in one basket. I, and many others who are in this mess will be telling all hunters I know and interact with on the internet, not to spend their hunting dollars in Quebec.
The only way we will see anything is if all the "good" outfitters start pressuring Quebec to do something on this. Our voices are lost for two reasons, one Quebec has our money already, and two, none of us will probably ever hunt Quebec again, so why would they care about only 5% of the hunters who come to hunt typically once in a lifetime anyway. We, the 168 (?) hunters who got shafted, are not who Quebec is counting on for revenue. So it is up to us, the 168, to lump everything as bad, so that next year that $16MM is a lot less. The power of the internet is amazing. I bet you, and all the other "good" outfitters see a drastic reduction in bookings over this years shows. I know I for one will be attending every show in the Northeast I can and will be handing out flyers as to what Quebec Outfitters can and looks like did get away with.
See you at some shows I am sure....
-dan
Jack the facts are the facts how can you explain what happened last year up in quebec 2007, And then this year . Sorry to say its unsafe for us Americans to dump our money into quebec hunts ,Your govt does not want to get involved,or help in any shape or form , i just got a lame letter from them stating they dont have any reason why this happened, the outfiters ass. cant do a thing ..Its a big joke our money has been robbed . Quebec isnt the only place to hunt caribou.
I called Harry the other day. Turns out that Nunami & Tuttulik were "sister" corporations of neighboring (many miles) villages. The two corporations were administered by the same individuals for a while. News Flash—the administration was sloppy, and Nunami has stuff that belongs to Tuttulik, as well as the reverse.
The situation is that most Inuits are not equipped to manage anything, and are stumbling pretty badly, and, I bet, easily mislead. Surprisingly, in addition, the Inuit corporations really play hardball amongst themselves. If Inuit Air cared a whit about the village business, they would have let them finish out the season. However, the village of Umiujaq really wants this hunting operation for the benefit of the village, and they control all trespassing rights. I think that if they get a good trustee, they may get "welfare" financing to get going again. While I’m not expecting much, Harry did say that Tuttulik did end up giving about 16 hunts to guys that got burned with the Nunami deal. Things in Montreal, let alone an Inuit village, move slowly. The last I heard, the Trustee still had to be assigned.
If they don’t make it right, then I’m with Serb. Turn the pit-bull lawyers and the press loose, and with a vengeance.
With the worldwide economic conditions that have transpired over the past few weeks no one who can make a difference is going to care about 200 hunters who got screwed out of $5K each for a total of $1M. Honestly for a gov't and big businesses that's chump change they can piss away as easy as you and I blow $100. People in power who could fix this have bigger issues to deal with and that's the reality of the situation. I hope it works out for you guys but I don't think anyone who can do anything about it will pay much attention to this issue.
lets keep this going Dan i will be right next to you with the flyers.
"With the worldwide economic conditions that have transpired over the past few weeks no one who can make a difference is going to care about 200 hunters who got screwed out of $5K each for a total of $1M."
When an area's economic future in tourism is grounded in their ability to make things right, I think they may care. Somehow I don't think these folks have all eyes on Wall Street.
if they care they are disguising it very well. what was the last indication of empathy or action from someone up there? any inklings at all. any signs of hope from an advocate. anything????????
Richard,
Your input in this is appreciated, as it does show there are still good outfitters up there. To imply though that hunters should have known better is easily said now. I went with tuttulik last year for two reasons.....the price of the drive up hunt was doable for me, and the reputation they had from actual hunters (not salesmen) here on the bowsite. Those two things were the only reason I could go. I just can't spend $6000 on a caribou hunt....$3500 though was possible.
It is time to pursue criminal charges against the officers of the corporation. I have looked into this an contacted the RCMP Commercial Crime Division in Montreal. I will post the officer's contact information later today.
I have resigned myself to the fact that the money is gone. If a couple of principals are indicted, tried and convicted, it may send a message to others that would engage in fraudulent behavior.
Setting up a website detailing this situation and suggesting a boycott should be concurrently pursued.
RCMP contact information to follow.
Richard,
I think you run a great operation, but you can talk 'til you're blue in the face and tell me how this couldn't have happened with you and if you're completely honest with us and yourself, you cannot make those claims...no-one can.
Some type of escrow, bond, or something needs to be set up and required by the Quebec government that all outfitters do business this way. Unless something like this is put into place, you are dead wrong about this not having an impact on other outfitters...and it really should have an impact! The other outfitters, the outfitters federation, and the Quebec government should be working together to put something in place that would make folks feel like the money generated by hunters really mattered and give us confidence that it's safe....if you don't see that my friend, then you are as much in the dark as we (the tuttulik folks) were and still are....JMHO
Panhandle,
I think you need to re-read Richards post before you start criticizing him. He said "I think it will be important for hunters to choose their outfitter and/or booking agents wisely in the future as this could happen to anyone but it is certainly less likely to happen to some than to others. It really has nothing to do with the location where you are hunting. Just my two cents worth."
Certainly less likely, is not a guarentee, just an accurate assessment of the situation. If Richard keeps the money on hand, he can refund it, and has when, under the right conditions, asked to do so.
LBB
Corporal Tim Caron Intake Coordinater Commercial Crime Section Royal Canadian Mounted Police 4225 Dorchester Blvd. Westmount, QC H3Z 1V5 514-939-8304
File No. 2008-1138951
Let the RCMP know about your individual situation.
I wonder what would happen if hunters were able to unite and refuse to book with places that require a large percentage of the hunt paid for in advance.
That has always been a very scary situation for me when booking, not because of the outfitter, but because of the potential for MY situation to change.
The only place I have booked with that required all in advance was Tuttulik (3 times) and it worked out fine for me with them, but it is not a hunter friendly plan.
LBB,
I'm not criticizing, or at least that wasn't my intent. I think Richard is a stand up guy and I can understand his side, he wasn't involved...this time. My point is he and other outfitters in the area need to see that they have at least a little interest in this situation and will be impacted. As stated above, a way to reduce the impact for all and make Americans feel better about the risk is to work with the Outfitters Federation and the Quebec government to come up with a way that works for the outfitter and hunter....again JMHO
Richard, sorry if I came accross negative towards you, not my intent...
I'm with Boubound, the hunters should refuse to hunt with any outfitter that wants the money paid all up front in adavnce. What risk are the outfitters taking by having all of the hunt cost up front, none at all. If I don't show up for the hunt they have all my money so there not out much at all. If the outfitter doesn't show up for the hunt the hunter is out the total cost of the hunt. Sounds like a win win situation for the outfitter and a lose lose situation for the hunter.
RIGHT ON GUYS!!!
That’s the kind of unity is what I was looking for on the "We need to stick together thread. Very well spoken Panhandle Bob.
Richard, we know your reputation, so this isn't personal.
However, what it the purpose of having an Outfitters Federation, or a Provincial Govt.? If they don't act to protect their customers, how can you blame the customers for uniting and want to strike back. The clock is ticking, and the consequences to Quebec tourism will be felt.
"What risk are the outfitters taking by having all of the hunt cost up front, none at all."
Unless the hunter pays for the balance in cash, the outfitter is taking the risk of the amount not paid upfront.
Yes we need to stick t together , as Dooner stated. I will do my part to inform every American hunter of the problems up north with Quebec . Its a joke the letter they sent me ....
Since 2000 I have hunted Alberta twice, both good trips, Newfoundland once, very poor trip, South Africa twice, both superb trips, and Texas once, ok trip. As I look to future hunting trips (Caribou is a species of interest) Quebec is simply off the list as neither whatever outfitter organization is there nor the govenment seem to understand or be particularly protective of their collective interest in the cash bearing hunters from the south. There are lots of places and critters to hunt in this world. I have no particular reason to go where there is evidently limited understanding of the concept of collective vested interest in preserving a resource.
Stubbleduck makes a good point. Why should I plan a caribou hunt via Quebec, with any outfiiter, when the government - or the governing body of the hunting/tourism board - doesn't seem to care about the buyer/hunter...? The silence and seemingly indiffernce by the governing board(s) towards the Tuttulik "victims" (ripped-off hunters) is appalling. Intially, it might have seemed beneficial to other outfitters (when Tuttulik went belly-up), but now I would be worried because it seems that, no matter what outfitter you would go with, you may not have any protection or backing from the powers that be. I've also been other places recently (Alaska, Africa, Utah, Wyoming) - I'll spend my hunting and recreational dollar elsewhere.
I am not sure if BSC does this or not anymore. I remember on my first trip to Africa, my money was actually put in escrow here and wired to Melorani when I arrived there. It seems like that might be the way to go. Use a booking agent and have them put the money in escrow in your name until you at least arrive.
I was suspect of them for not allowing payment with a creditcard. If they didn't perform, I was going to have my creditcard reverse the charges. This escrow idea is even better.
Many companies do not like cc's due to the interchange fees (2%+-). That would add up to roughly $100/hunter.
Most companies, including my own, accept the 2% as a cost of doing business. I would gladly pay an additional $100/trip to use a credit card. However, if they then went Bankrupt and everyone tried to have their charges reversed, I'm not sure there would be enough $ for the creditcard companies to grab.
I like the escrow account, which would also have fees attached.
There is no need to place the money in escrow.
There is no reason that a deposit can't be made at the time of booking and then the balance paid just prior to boarding the airplane either credit card certified check or cash. unless of course they rely on that up front payment to pay off previously incurred expenses.
If we speak loud enough we can make a difference.
people are losing interest unfortunately.
they are resigned to the reality that the inuits won
Bou'bound I am in complete shock you aren't still saying Tuttilik and Bearman are the best thing since sliced bread?
Old Bearman got the last laugh aftering walking with his commission!!
Now edit this quick Bou'bound!
Take it somewhere else slappy, no one wants to hear your pie hole.
why would anyone support what they are now known to be? that would be silly.
what they were was pretty solid, but then at one time so was AIG and Enron. Things change financially for entities over time.....as they do for individuals!
Sorry I misled anyone by supporting the fact I had two great hunts (and actually the hunt this year was logistically and operationally fine, but the animals were scarce). In retrospect I now realize i should have lied and said everyone in the camps those two weeks in 07 and 06 got skunked as opposed to filling both tags in a matter of days, mostly with bows. my fault for telling it as it happened and not making is sound like a bad deal. for that i appologize.........had i said it was all horrendous i am sure nobody would have booked with them in 07,08, 09 and they would have shut down due to lack of customers and no hunter would have been adversely affected.
I guess I was in good company supporting them though as this site promoted them 3 times, once with a semi-live hunt and twice with groups of hunters being recruited and booked for Bowsite group hunts. How foolish could the site owner have been to actually do such a thing when the future was so clear for some, like you for example, to see.
I'll admit, hindsight is 20-20.
But in hindsight you gave out bad advice, constantly. Now you still give out advice....constantly.
I'll leave now and not come back. Later homie.
While slappy my be a little out of line, I too am growing a little tired of boubound's posts on this matter.
I, for one, don't need his advice that's it's time to move on, or that everyone's resigned that the Inuits won.
It aint over till it's over.
Bou is just trying to help. Too bad he can't.
LBB
I've been silent throughout this whole nightmare, but I'm growing tired of reading blogs from guys who "haven't" been involved in this years hunt and the whole "move on guys, get over it" lines....YOUR NOT OUT $5300 DOLLARS!! You haven't a clue what that kind of disappointment feels like, so like Dooner said, its not over til its over and I will see recourse at some point.
MtBowman i myself got screwed and minus 5300 which i could use in my pocket, I hope we have our day
guys whatabout the money we spent on tags ....
We hunted with Tuttulik 05 & 06. They bailed us out from a now defunked Kanguuk Outfitter out of Deception Bay in '04 when the Inuits ran off with the moneys and put them out of business (257K). I just spoke to Harry. They are doing everything in their powers to get the situation corrected. They provided us with the best caribou hunts ever. I've been there 4 x in Nunavik hunting the Leaf river and George river herds. My picture with the best bull from Tuttulik is in the 2007 Weatherby catalog page 9. I have 3 horror stories too. I'm really sorry for you folks that had this situation happen to. I've been there done that. Tuttulik stepped up to the plate back in '04/'05 and offered us a hunt thru the consulate in Quebec for an addition $1100.00 besides the the $4000.00 we lost to Kanguuk.(Payne Lake too) Best $1100.00 we ever spent. They offered a first class hunt bar none and some of the nicest best kept camps we were ever in. We had planned to go back up in '09 when my hunting partner just mailed me the flyer from NY hunting identifying the situation. I really hope they can get it fixed and back into business as that Lake Minto area is the best there is. Bulls after Bull after Bull fishing and Ptarmigan hunting hunting too. It just plain SUCKS for everyone involved. Kevin from Pa.
Well guys I have been doing quite a bit of thinking about this whole situation and before I get started I might add that I don't have much pull with the Quebec Government, never have and probably never will. I think it might have something to do with being part of an English miniority in Quebec! Anyhow I won't get into politics but I do however have an offer to make and perhaps it won't seem like much but it is the most I can do to help the situation. With any luck perhaps the Quebec Government will at the very least meet my offer by supplying each of you with caribou licenses. If this is the case then I will deduct that amount ($295.00 Cdn) from my hunt (as licenses are included in my package)in addition to $400.00 US funds which I am willing to offer as a credit to each hunter that lost their hunt with Tutulik. I will require proof from each hunter that they did in fact have a hunt booked with Tutulik and lost their deposit money. Keeping in mind Tutulik has absolutely nothing to do with me as they were in fact my competition. Also keeping in mind that I could probably book my remaining hunts at full price as I honestly only have 6 opennings for 6 hunters left to choose from in 2009. This offer could potentially cost me $14 400.00 if all my remaining hunts are purchased by Tutulik hunters. It is strictly first come first served and I will require the initial 1/3 deposits in order to hold your spot. I am also willing to accept final payments from these Tutulik hunters to be paid in the form of a cashiers check upon arrival in Montreal. That way they will be able to feel confident knowing that their hunt will take place. Perhaps other outfitters will step up to the plate and meet my offer or perhaps some can even afford to do better. Who knows, but at least it might get the ball rolling if nothing else. I'm just doing my part to clear Quebec's reputation and it's my way of showing that even though I have nothing to do with the cause of it I am willing to help clean it up.
Richard Hume
Wow, That's an extremely generous offer in view of the fact that you will most likely book all remaining slots anyway. That's a good piece of change you would be losing potentially. I wouldn't feel right accepting a discount from you because of the Tuttulik issue especially since i would book a hunt with you anyway but I would want the Quebec Government to step to the plate and do the right thing regarding the tags and licenses that have already been paid for.
bb, the way I understand it, Tuttulik pays the gov. at the end of the season for the tags and license, so they didn't even get the tag money to give back (is this correct?) I decided to get the bear tag and fishing as well so I'm out about 450$ all together myself. Richard, that's a great offer, but it took me seven years to save for this hunt, so at that rate I'll see you in 2016!
given the inflation rate you'll see him in 2034 at this rate
"Tuttulik pays the gov. at the end of the season for the tags and license, so they didn't even get the tag money to give back (is this correct?)"
I would expect that's the case but somehow I think the Quebec Government has a little pull in recouping those costs. I see no reason they can't step up to the plate all things considered.
Rich thats a great deal what about the guys that lost all there money to tuttulik 2008 hunts, Im out 5,300 thanks louis
I'm sorry Louis. I do realize the situation you are in but I'm just an outfitter trying to help out. Actually I'm the outfitter from Quebec that you chose not to hunt with. All my clients had their hunt and those that were cancelled at the end of my season were given a full refund no questions asked. I'm just doing what I can afford to do to help out those who are at a lost due to what happened. It's not really my place to have to offer anyone anything as you guys actually chose to hunt with Tutulik over me in the 1st place. I'm not sure what more can be expected from me...Perhaps the government will do more for you but I'm just saying what I can do for you.
Richard Hume
I'll say this to all Tuttulik hunters booked for 09, take the deal from JHA! with the 700$ he's crediting you minus the 1200 hundred you donated to the inuits you would only be out 500 bucks for a life lessoned learned, and still get to go caribou hunting!!!
Richard,
I argree that it is a very nice thing you are doing for the guys with deposits down for 2009. I also see your motive as we (the ones who chose not to hunt with you for 2008) are gearing up for a full on protest of ALL QUEBEC Hunting. The 168 hunters that were out around $5k each will have a pretty loud voice for many years to come and I can see where that can and will hurt all, even the honest like yourself, Quebec outfitters. However, until Quebec, or Tuttulik does something to make us at least close to whole, our voices will be heard. I do feel sorry for you and other honest outfitters, but if we do not make an impact on everyone outfitter in Quebec, then things will progress as business as usual until this happens again to another group of hunters. All of the "still in business" outfitters up there should be outraged by Tuttilik, and DEMANDING that Quebec does something for the hunters. I have read that Quebec does approximately $16 million dollars per year of caribou hunts from the US. Granted the 168 hunters only represent about 6% of that money and most of us were planning a "hunt of a lifetime" so our revenue will not be counted on for the future, but if we can each tell 5 hunting buddies, not to go to Quebec in 2009, or 2010, then that is a reduction of close to 35% of the bookings for all outfitters. Imagine if we could reach 10 hunters each? Can you "honest" outfitters afford to lose 50% of your booking? How many bookings do you need just to break even?
I hope you can see why we need to do this, and why what we will be doing is to motivate you and all the other honest outfitters into action. You are in Quebec, you are part of the outfitters association, and YOUR BEST INTEREST in at stake here.
-dan
it looks like the good guys will just become collateral damage in the war against tuttulik.
in the end guys will hunt there and just be more selective in their booking process. these animals are not like elk where people can go to 20 different states to hunt them. heck, even moose are available in a far wider range of locations.
if you want to hunt caribou with an outfitter at a decent price with reasonable travel and you want to experience tundra the most attractive option is quebec. that will outweigh, at the macro level, any boycott activity.
the sport may be better off if there was an effective coalliton, but in reality it won't happen and it won't have an impact other than some folks feeling better about being heard and venting......which in it's own right can be rather cathartic.
Some of you guys are too much. Taking actions to intentionally hurt the business of those who do it right (and who have actually offered to take up the slack for those who don't) is not the right way to punish Tuttulik.
The way Quebec needs to be punished is refusing to pay an Outfitter for the total hunt price before arrival.If they can't agree to those terms,Adios.
Ironically,the last caribou hunt I was on (NWT), several bowsiters and myself thought a Consortium of some sort would help to protect our hunt interests abroad.At the time,I had taking a major burning with an outfitter in BC.
The money is huge but the price of missing the lone horse on opportunities carousel is even larger.
The finger doens't need to be pointed at outfitters........it should be at Quebec and that will be enough..........ALL OUTFITTERS as a result unfortanetly will feel this. A little pressure by them on the government to prevent this again would maybe help.....but 160 hunters is alot of people not including the people that had money down for the next two years. When something is heard about this.......there will be media that will love to play with this.
"The way Quebec needs to be punished is refusing to pay an Outfitter for the total hunt price before arrival.If they can't agree to those terms,Adios."
That's all it will take, it's a simple solution. I'm for taking it one step farther and holding a 10% retainage until they return you to the your starting point.
160 people is not a lot.
if dan's number above of 16M is the total in the province spent with caribou outfitters and 160 people @ 5K each dropped a total of 800K that is only 5% of the hunter population. hardly enough to change the trajectory of an industry.
quit tiling at the industry windmill and go for the jugular of the guilty party! you need to think laser surgery not carpet bombing.
Boubound,
If you read my post I say that we are only about 6%. However, each one of convinces 5 others not to book a hunt in Quebec for the next two years, then that nocks out 35% of the total bookings. I am a moderator for New Jerseys largest hunting website. I can reach about 3000 hunters with my message very easily. I think convincing 5 that would have booked Quebec not to would be very easy. In fact I know of a group of 10 that I have aready convinced. They were planning to book for 2009 or 2010 this year and decided to book somewhere different.
We will be heard, and yes it does suck that "good" outfitters will feel the pain, but that is why it is in their best interests to push Quebec to make this right.
-dan
if you can have an impact on the right target that would be good dan. i hope you make a difference as people should be able to go up there in good faith and experience the wonder of the caribou and the tundra.
in the end it does not matter if you convince 1000 not to go if there are 1000 others willing to take their spots.
i just believe that if someone wants to hunt those things they will do it, just with a proven outfitter and only after quadruple checking the outfitter. and in reality that is the way it should be. good hunters getting a good trip with good outfitters.
in the end who benefits from bowhunters deciding not to experience the wonder of caribou hunting with a great outfitter because they were made to fear the potential downside. nobody benefits from that. the hunters miss out on something not easily replicable elsewhere. the good outfitters are hurt and weakened.
How about you tell 3,000 hunters not to book with Tuttulik or any caribou outfit that is started by the same inuit tribe?
I am still unclear as to why the government of Quebec and other Quebec outfitters should be held accountable? Keep in mind, you are owed money by Tuttulik, you are not owed money by anyone and everyone who you can rationalize to be associated with Tuttulik.
I have no standing in this issue whatsoever, but I'd say that Mr. Hume's offer is a very generous one and he seems to run a very honest operation. If I ever hunt caribou, I will look him up.
Nick
Stick with me on this post; it gets better toward the end!
I've hunted with both Richard = (JHA)and Tuttulik and I've also had too much to drink at a wedding tonight so you're going to have to forgive some grammar mistakes...
When we hunted with JHA everything was flawless, except the weather, and we had a good experience. We each shot nice bou with our longbows and Dad killed a couple with the rifle. With Tuttulik it was all good too accept the bou weren't there and I and a few others never took an arrow out of the quiver. Tuttulik had better camp, better camp staff and an excellent cook. JHA's cook got us by and we didn't starve but our guide/camp guide was a hard working MF who did what he could to put us on bou.
Overall if the bou were there this year I'd have to give it to Tuttulik. Better food, nicer camp and harder working, more knowledgeable camp staff.
Now here's where it gets ugly! When we left camp it was obvious something was wrong! The guides were acting strange and other things were happening I wont' go in to but when the plane landed and unloaded 6 to 8 55 gallon drums of heating oil and 10 100# tanks of propane something didn't feel right. Add this up and you're looking at about 5,000 pounds of fuel and a hell of a lot of your money. The story we were told are the Inuits use the fuel during the winter to keep warm, etc.... Ya'll paid for this with your hunt fees for this year and next. There were many others in camp who could vouch for the fuel drop and if you doubt a plane can carry this much fuel consider 6 55 drums of heating oil and 10 100 pound tanks of propane don't weigh much more than 10 hunters and their gear.
To sum it up... Although the company was supposedly out of money they had enough of yours to subsidise the Inuit’s fuel for the winter. Ya'll got screwed IMO!
All that said the Tuttulik EMPLOYEES in camp who had no idea this was coming down when we began our hunt are some of the best people I've ever been associated with.
Bottom line is if I ever decide to do another bou hunt I would never book another hunt with the Inuits but I wouldn't hesitate even a little bit to book a hunt with Richard and JHA.
Who's the best writer on Bowsite?
Tilzbow...when he's sober
Who's the second best writer on Bowsite?
Tilzbow...when he's drunk!
Tilzbow Im not undermind your post but The thing is the money has already been paid for the fuel and propane (long before the season). Also the cost of the flight has already been paid (the one to get you guys out of camp). Now, the cost of the flight to go get you guys costs the same whether the plane goes in empty of full, might as well haul a load in since they are going in anyways. Also, another reason they hauled that to the camp is because fuel, if not locked up tends to disappear in the village. That and plus IF somehow they get it going for next year, they have already got the fuel and propane there. When i was there, that was part of my job was to make sure the planes went in full, because the cost is the same, empty of full. Adam Travis
"Bottom line is if I ever decide to do another bou hunt I would never book another hunt with the Inuits but I wouldn't hesitate even a little bit to book a hunt with Richard and JHA."
I agree.
Will plan to hunt bou again, this time will be with JHA.
I too have notice these. Was on the same camp with Tilzbow.
Tilzbow is the best writer on Bowsite , drunk or sober.
Peace. :>)
Personally i have no stake in this but have been wanting to go on a hunt for a few years now. With the offer that was put forward from Richard i will be going there(JHA). these are not clients, not his responsibility, and this has nothing to do with him, but he offers to discount his prices to try and get people the hunt they have been dreaming of, even if they chose the competition in the first place
if he stands up like this now, i would assume he would do the same for me while hunting for him.
Richard i think your offer is more than generous.
I wholeheartedly agree with Mr Elk, I too have been trying to plan a hunt with my mom before she gets too old to go on a hunt of this nature. After all the posts that I have read and all the outfitters that I have reasearched, Richard has the balls to make such an offer even when he could just sit by and watch yall whimper. I will book a hunt, and when I do it will be with a stand up guy that I can relate to. P.S. Save me a big dbl shovel Richard HCH
How we forget look what happened in 2007, and then tullulik in 2008 , And yes the govt of Quebec needs to get of there ass and step in ,its only a matter of time before someone is killed up there over this ..I would have a problem with a bunch of locals with guns blocking the airport and roadways not allowing hunters into there lands..
City hunter, it isn't always easy to understand why the natives do what they do when you aren't directly involved with them but in our case I have spent every season since I was 12 years old in Schefferville. I have scouts that are hired each year from the same Montagnais tribe that put up the road block and over the years I have become friends with many of the natives in Schefferville. I will be the first to say that I wasn't very happy about leaving my home base that we have operated from for well over 25 years but I'm not going to dwell on that issue for the rest of my life. I like the arrangement we now have with the natives as each outfitter signed with them independently. They had issues with certain outfitters and illegal outfitters which is why they put up the road block in the first place. We were never one of the outfitters that they actually had an issue with so I'm not too worried about them blocking us anymore. On the other hand during the road block of 2007 as you might remember I did manage to bring every last hunter booked with us on their trip. Those who lost 1 or 2 days of hunting were refunded with a credit on a future hunt with us. If for some unknown reason it was to happen again I am more prepared than ever to move on to Lac Pau. So, yes we did have our issues and yes we dealt with those issues and made due without much damage and yes they are now resolved. So what exactly is the problem? I might be missing something but what happened to us can't be compared to what happened this year. And yes 2008 was one of our best years ever without any conflicts with the natives what so ever.
Richard
Hello Richard its great to see you are trying to make a difference . Thats a great offer for the guys in 2009. I wish i could cut my loses and hunt with you , Im one of the unlucky ones im out 5,300 ouch, louis
T.taxidermy,
I don't disagree with you about the flight not costing anymore loaded with fuel and so on but if the Inuits were truly concerned about their reputation and the remaining hunters on the 2008 schedule they wouldn't have bought the fuel in the first place and if they already purchased it before they knew they were in trouble (which I doubt) they could've sold it to help pay expenses or used the proceeds to refund even a little bit back to the hunters.
BTW - Today, October 29, I was told by a very good source the camp I was in is the only one that received a fuel drop so this isn't as big a deal as I made it out to be. It probably amounted to less than $5,000 of fuel so it wouldn't have made a difference.
RICHARD,, HOW DID YOUR 08 SEASON GO? I WAS ONE WHO LOST A TRIPE TO HUNT THIS YEAR AND WONDERING HOW YOUR BOOKING IS FOR NEXT YEAR? MANY THANKS IN ADVANCE!
Mike, We had our ups and downs as we usually do but with more ups than downs! Overall 2008 was one of our best seasons ever with 96% overall success. Not only did we have a great kill rate but the bulls were bigger and better than ever. I still have those 6 opennings for 6 hunters left to fill and a handfull of partial openings for 2009. Hope you can join us in 2009 and I'd be glad to apply the credit of $400.00 if you do so. Should the Quebec or Canadian Government offer anything additional then that will not effect the credit I am offering.
Richard Hume
You are a good man Mr Hume.
Would that I had the resources to hunt with you every year, I would.
LNN
Rich have you heard any news about the tuttulik in recent days
i heard they took a page out of AIGs book and are on a 10 day junket to the french riviera. hoping for a bail out from the prime minister.
seriously, the newest info is the website is now shut down. that has happened just within the last couple weeks i belive.
only wish they would get a bailout
