Summit Treestands
safari nordik ripping off hunters
Caribou
Contributors to this thread:
Bou'bound 10-Aug-13
txhunter58 10-Aug-13
Bill in MI 10-Aug-13
pointingdogs 11-Aug-13
Weatherbyjim 11-Aug-13
Dooner 11-Aug-13
butcherboy 11-Aug-13
Bou'bound 11-Aug-13
caribou77 11-Aug-13
tradmt 11-Aug-13
TradbowBob 11-Aug-13
TundraHearted 11-Aug-13
Trapper 1 11-Aug-13
Bou'bound 11-Aug-13
Bou'bound 11-Aug-13
BerksArcher 11-Aug-13
bb 11-Aug-13
tradmt 11-Aug-13
APauls 11-Aug-13
Dooner 12-Aug-13
cariboukid 12-Aug-13
Bou'bound 12-Aug-13
Bou'bound 12-Aug-13
Bou'bound 12-Aug-13
Bou'bound 12-Aug-13
Bou'bound 12-Aug-13
BerksArcher 12-Aug-13
Tracker 12-Aug-13
BerksArcher 12-Aug-13
NY Bowman 12-Aug-13
BerksArcher 12-Aug-13
BerksArcher 12-Aug-13
TradbowBob 12-Aug-13
FullCryHounds 12-Aug-13
Capt.Bly 12-Aug-13
NY Bowman 12-Aug-13
Nick Muche 12-Aug-13
moosecanada.com 12-Aug-13
Trapper 1 12-Aug-13
caribouken 12-Aug-13
Trapper 1 12-Aug-13
Teeton 12-Aug-13
WapitiBob 12-Aug-13
Capt.Bly 12-Aug-13
bo hntr9 12-Aug-13
bb 12-Aug-13
Bill in MI 12-Aug-13
BerksArcher 12-Aug-13
BerksArcher 12-Aug-13
caribouken 13-Aug-13
rtkreaper 13-Aug-13
Trapper 1 13-Aug-13
Rut Nut 15-Aug-13
Bou'bound 15-Aug-13
BerksArcher 15-Aug-13
Kevin Dill 15-Aug-13
IdyllwildArcher 15-Aug-13
Kevin Dill 15-Aug-13
Chip T. 15-Aug-13
Kevin Dill 15-Aug-13
Rut Nut 15-Aug-13
Fulldraw1972 15-Aug-13
Rut Nut 15-Aug-13
Rut Nut 15-Aug-13
FullCryHounds 16-Aug-13
Kevin Dill 16-Aug-13
Bill in MI 16-Aug-13
wild1 16-Aug-13
Dooner 16-Aug-13
Bou'bound 16-Aug-13
Glunt@work 16-Aug-13
Rut Nut 16-Aug-13
NY Bowman 19-Aug-13
Dwitt2n 19-Aug-13
300 Win Mag 19-Aug-13
Kevin Dill 19-Aug-13
Mule Power 19-Aug-13
huntingbob 20-Aug-13
BC 20-Aug-13
Mule Power 20-Aug-13
DoubleShovel 20-Aug-13
FullCryHounds 21-Aug-13
NY Bowman 21-Aug-13
Rut Nut 21-Aug-13
Charlie Rehor 21-Aug-13
expeditiontraders 21-Aug-13
oldgoat 21-Aug-13
Kevin Dill 21-Aug-13
FullCryHounds 21-Aug-13
Rut Nut 21-Aug-13
bigotisjeff 21-Aug-13
FullCryHounds 22-Aug-13
Rut Nut 22-Aug-13
rodney482 22-Aug-13
GBH5358 05-Sep-13
Bou'bound 06-Sep-13
XMan 06-Sep-13
Dooner 06-Sep-13
mixed bag 06-Sep-13
Bou'bound 06-Sep-13
Dooner 07-Sep-13
MBMule 08-Sep-13
Bou'bound 08-Sep-13
trophymanager 08-Sep-13
MBMule 08-Sep-13
WV Mountaineer 08-Sep-13
PAstringking 08-Sep-13
Teeton 08-Sep-13
cariboukid 09-Sep-13
Bou'bound 09-Sep-13
PAstringking 09-Sep-13
GBH5358 10-Sep-13
Northern Rubicon 11-Sep-13
Drop tine 11-Sep-13
bo hntr9 15-Sep-13
Rockbass 17-Sep-13
Rockbass 17-Sep-13
MBMule 17-Sep-13
Bou'bound 18-Sep-13
rtkreaper 19-Sep-13
CPAhunter 19-Sep-13
bigotisjeff 19-Sep-13
orionsbrother 19-Sep-13
pav 19-Sep-13
Panhandle Bob 19-Sep-13
wild1 19-Sep-13
Dooner 19-Sep-13
Dooner 19-Sep-13
trophymanager 19-Sep-13
spike buck 19-Sep-13
trophymanager 19-Sep-13
spike buck 19-Sep-13
spike buck 19-Sep-13
Stick 19-Sep-13
orionsbrother 19-Sep-13
Crazy_8s 19-Sep-13
10-Aug-13
I haven’t seen a big outcry about what Safari Nordik is doing to its hunters, but it is pretty close to what Tuttulik did in 2008.

My father-in-law is a big hunter and after 40 years of working the farm he picked Quebec Lab Caribou as his dream hunt. Along with several other guys they put down deposits and signed contracts with safari Nordik for a September 2013 caribou hunt.

After the last installment of the hunt was taken out of everyone’s accounts last month safari Nordik sent an email stating they no longer had guaranteed spots to hunt in 2013. But safari Nordik had known for months the tag allocation for then area had been cut.

Safari Nordik even asked clients who had spent 9k on a hunt deposit to send in another 2k to fight the Quebec government in a legal battle over tag allocations.

Safari Nordik gave my father-in-law several options- pay the extra money and they might have a spot or wait until next year and they might have a spot available, but there are no guarantees of a hunt. Ever.

Safari Nordik also refuses to refund any hunters deposits for hunts that were not filled.

To say these hunters are frustrated is an understatement

From: Bou'bound
10-Aug-13
When did this happen. Do you have copies of any of the communication. Can't believe we have not heard this but few on here use anyone but jha so that may be why. Big news though. Bad

From: txhunter58
10-Aug-13
Nor what?

10-Aug-13
yes, they have copies of the emails. I believe they were emailed last week.

From: Bill in MI
10-Aug-13
After all these issues, why would anyone hunt with someone besides Jack Hume?

From: pointingdogs
11-Aug-13
I hunted with Safari Nordik about 10 years ago. We saw and shot caribou (gun) and that was good. The bad part was he preparation of the meat. We got meat that was spoiled and who knows from which caribou it came from. The meat was thrown away by us hunters.

good luck to all the dog

From: Weatherbyjim
11-Aug-13
That is sad, they are touted as one of the best outfits. If this is the truth, it needs to be spread to everyone who will listen.

Jim

From: Dooner
11-Aug-13
"After all these issues, why would anyone hunt with someone besides Jack Hume?"

That about sums it up.

From: butcherboy
11-Aug-13
I went with Ungava in 2008 with no issues at all. If there is a next time it will be with JHA. The only issue was that there were no caribou. In any of the camps except for a few that were hanging out in the area which can happen very easily with caribou. We had 3 in our group and we all shot 2. some small ones and a few decent ones. There was a group we met in Kujjuak that hunted with Safari Nordic and they didn't have anything good to say about them and that was 5 years ago.

From: Bou'bound
11-Aug-13
"they are touted as one of the best outfits"

maybe by themselves, but it has been well more than a decade since this outfit was considered to be anything above mediocre by people with knowledge of the landscape in the business.

what they do have is a few arrangements with TV personalities and that may be what you are associating them with. anyplace can put on a good hunt/ show for a TV personality here or there.

being recognized does not equate to being a quality outfit

it would be great to cut and past the emails here. it will spread like wildfire if the bowsite gets the buzz going.

From: caribou77
11-Aug-13
They pulled that on us 10 years ago but it was due to "fuel prices". After everything was paid for they asked for 500 more dollars. We paid not knowing what to do. The only thing that makes safari a "top" outfit is that fact that there are only a couple left. lol thats it! JHA all the way! 3 more weeks and i'll be back up. Best of luck to you and getting your money back.

From: tradmt
11-Aug-13
I am going with JHA in just a few weeks and after researching other outfitters JHA was an easy choice. I don't think anyone comes close from what I have heard.

I sure hope they get something worked out, way too much money just to throw away.

From: TradbowBob
11-Aug-13
Why you guys book with anybody but JHA is beyond me.

TBB

11-Aug-13
Amen, Brother Bob

From: Trapper 1
11-Aug-13
Count us in as part of the outcry!

The same thing happened to our group of three. We made reservations with them last fall for 2013 and sent them three payments for their premium package. That's about $8000 apiece. Yes, the last and largest payment was well after they knew of the license reductions. Yet they waited until July 31st to say anything or present their unsatisfactory options to clients. Refunds were not possible because the money was already disbursed according to them. So what they are saying is that they spent our money knowing full well that some hunters would not get their hunts this year.

We did our research and thought that they were reputable. It was between them and Jack Hume. With Safari Nordik you could get flights scheduled and booked by them. We thought that would be less hassle for us, so we chose them. I wish we could make that choice over. We are still pleading with Safari Nordik to honor the contract for a hunt this year or make full refunds. At this point I would say they have no intention of doing either. I am still looking at every viable option to bring them to justice.

My advise is to stay as far away from them as possible unless you want to join the growing group who gets ripped off by them. I thought only the respectable outfitters were still in business but leave it to them to prove me wrong!

From: Bou'bound
11-Aug-13

From: Bou'bound
11-Aug-13
I get that the rules changed and guys may only be able to kill one bull instead of two. What I don't get is why they can't honor hunts for the same number of people who would just be able to take one fewer animal

From: BerksArcher
11-Aug-13
The Safari Nordik contract probably has some fine language that says the have the right to reschedule based on acts of God or government acts et al, but they certainly should do the right thing and refund the money if they can't deliver as promised. Sounds like they will be out of business after this and rightly so. I know JHA indicated last year for two caribou but they gphave the requisite tags to support the hunts they book. jHA would never not provide a refund if similar cicumstances, cause they have something called 'integrity 'which Safari Nordik does not have. Glad I have my 2 trips with JHA under my belt.

From: bb
11-Aug-13
Grant, I doubt this is because the rules have changed, I think this is just the warm up for a wholesale disappearing act, similar to Tuttulik.

From: tradmt
11-Aug-13
I think bb may be on to something.

From: APauls
11-Aug-13
Did you pay by credit card? Credit card companies are amazing for giving you refunds on product/services not received!! Just try it and see! I hope for your sake that you did pay by CC.

From: Dooner
12-Aug-13
"I think this is just the warm up for a wholesale disappearing act, similar to Tuttulik."

bb is likely correct. They will never get a hunt or money from Safari Nordik. I'm sure SN is in trouble, and watched Tuttulik get away with robbing hunters of ~$2,000,000. Forget about any authority in Quebec coming to your aid. Short of Murder, I doubt the provincial government has the balls to confront any 1st Nation group about injury to any foreign tourist. To them we are just sheep to be shorn. As a Tuttulik victim, I would never book a hunt where "1st Nations" are in control of the business.

The only outfitter in Quebec that I have found that lets you pay with a CC is JHA. Anyone that books with a Quebec outfitter that doesn't accept major CCs is just asking for it.

I am going with JHA this year. It'll be my fourth trip up there. It wasn't always this bad. Frankly, the total lack on consequences for these bad actors has really tainted one of the best hunting venues on the planet. I would never book a Quebec Caribou hunt with anyone other than JHA.

From: cariboukid
12-Aug-13
1st off, I want to thank all of you who once again spoke highly of us and at the same time I want to apologies to any of you that are facing uncertainty regarding whether or not your hunt will take place.

To clarify the situation we are faced with as outfitters operating in Northern Quebec...

Each outfitter (left operating in northern Quebec) was given a new quota of caribou licenses by the Quebec MRNF for the 2013 season. The new quota was based off how many hunters were hosted by each outfitter in 2012. In our particular case we actually booked exactly the same amount of hunters this year as we had booked in 2012 and therefore our new quota of licenses is sufficient for us to honor all of our hunts sold for 2013. My understanding is that Safari faced a much different situation as they had unfortunately cancelled some of their hunts in 2012 which they said was "due to a lack of caribou" at their camps. Please don't quote me on any of this but it is my understanding that because they cancelled some hunts and because the quota is based off their 2012 season they have now found themselves in a situation where they do not have a sufficient license quota to host both the hunts from 2012 that they postponed to 2013 along with those new hunters they booked for 2013.

FYI - For the 2014 season we are supposed to be granted twice as many licenses as we have been granted for the 2013 season but however the limit is to drop down to a single caribou limit. Most outfitters were opposed to the new single caribou limit and our Quebec Outfitter's Federation is supposed to be attempting to convince the Quebec Minister in charge that keeping our 2 caribou limit would be beneficial to all outfitters in so far as marketing our hunts is concerned. We were told that the QOF would have an answer for us by the end of the 2013 season (as to whether we can maintain the 2 caribou limit or not).

With all that being said if we end up with a single caribou limit, the good news for anyone booked with Safari Nordik is that they should end up with twice as many licenses as they were granted this year and perhaps they will then be able to honor any hunts they are not able to honor this year.

As far as my own hunts are concerned I have over 40 hunters booked for 2014 and all of them are aware that we are facing a new single caribou limit. I did lose a handful of hunters who chose to cancel their hunts and although my contract "which is signed by each group of hunters" clearly stipulates that I am not to be held responsible if the Fish and Game department was to make any changes to the bag limit on caribou (unless the entire season was canceled) I chose to refund these hunters their deposit money. I would not have felt OK with keeping their money knowing that our 2 caribou limit was a major factor in their decisions to book a caribou hunt with us and at the time they booked the hunt I had probably promoted our hunt as being a 2 caribou hunt.

I plan on waiting until the middle of November 2013 to see if the Quebec minister decides to maintain the single caribou limit and at that point if the single caribou limit is maintained I will attempt to make some adjustments that would allow me to drop the prices of our hunts and if we end up lowering the cost of our packages those who "stayed on board" knowing we were facing a single caribou limit would be first to have the discounts applied to their hunts. I truly appreciate your business and faith in us and I truly hope all of you booked with Safari Nordik will get to not only experience your hunt up north but also I wish you nothing less than a truly memorable experience and success in finding the caribou you have been dreaming of. I'm now going to head off to load my Cessna and head to camp with supplies (lots of bear damaged camps this year!)but I'll be keeping you all updated on how we are doing from week to week once our hunt gets on its way.

Richard

From: Bou'bound
12-Aug-13
That's why I booked with you in 2014 and I don't care if it's 1 or 2 animals. it's about the experience. honestly if going to 1 animal get more hunters the opportunity to go vs. less hunters all getting to kill more when they go that is a good deal for the sport and the outfitter.

the tundra is the tundra regardless of how many tags you have.

From: Bou'bound
12-Aug-13

Bou'bound's embedded Photo
Bou'bound's embedded Photo
when you look at this i don't really think it matters if you kill one or two animals.......or none for that matter

From: Bou'bound
12-Aug-13

Bou'bound's embedded Photo
Bou'bound's embedded Photo
when you look at this i don't really think it matters if you kill one or two animals.......or none for that matter

From: Bou'bound
12-Aug-13

Bou'bound's embedded Photo
Bou'bound's embedded Photo
when you look at this i don't really think it matters if you kill one or two animals.......or none for that matter

From: Bou'bound
12-Aug-13

Bou'bound's embedded Photo
Bou'bound's embedded Photo
when you look at this i don't really think it matters if you kill one or two animals.......or none for that matter

From: BerksArcher
12-Aug-13

BerksArcher's embedded Photo
BerksArcher's embedded Photo
I'll second what Grant said after 3 trips to the tundra ...

From: Tracker
12-Aug-13
Glad to see that someone tried to clear up the issue. I have hunted twice with SN and both were great hunts. I know things can change but you can not blame the loss of tags on SN especially if they did not the quota was going down. They should offer a refund thou. All I can say is travel insurance on hunts is worth the $$$. My friends got screwed up on a Moose hunt last year due to the huricane and got 98% of there hunt fee back.

From: BerksArcher
12-Aug-13

BerksArcher's embedded Photo
BerksArcher's embedded Photo
The beautiful George River which most folks will never see or will not see for some time as far as for caribou...

From: NY Bowman
12-Aug-13
I do understand why people go to Quebec if they want to hunt a Quebec Labrador caribou as it is one of the few places to do so, but if you just want to hunt caribou I sure don't know why people go to Quebec. It is twice the money of Alaska ($8000 vs $3,500 (all inclusive)) and the Quebec government seems to have no use or care for Americans. I experienced this first hand in Montreal as I was visiting for a weekend. My vehicle was broke into (smashed the window) and laptop and other stuff stolen. The police could care less and they knew where it happened and that it was very frequent. There were two other people filing a report at the same time as I. I'm not going after a Super Slam so I'm going to spend my money in America and forget Quebec. No offense to JHA, but even they aren't worth the risk of Quebec and the lack of any protection for consumers from the Quebec government.

Grant, the Alaskan tundra is pretty spectacular as well! :) AND if I wanted to I could shoot 5 caribou in the area I'll be hunting.

From: BerksArcher
12-Aug-13

BerksArcher's embedded Photo
BerksArcher's embedded Photo
JHA, Andre Lake, George River herd, 2009

From: BerksArcher
12-Aug-13

BerksArcher's embedded Photo
BerksArcher's embedded Photo
Hawk Lake, 2010. JHA...

From: TradbowBob
12-Aug-13

TradbowBob's embedded Photo
TradbowBob's embedded Photo
One of 4 I've taken with my longbow with JHA in two trips.

TBB

12-Aug-13

FullCryHounds's embedded Photo
FullCryHounds's embedded Photo
I'll ditto what NYBowman said.

"I do understand why people go to Quebec if they want to hunt a Quebec Labrador caribou as it is one of the few places to do so, but if you just want to hunt caribou I sure don't know why people go to Quebec. It is twice the money of Alaska ($8000 vs $3,500 (all inclusive)) and the Quebec government seems to have no use or care for Americans. I experienced this first hand in Montreal as I was visiting for a weekend. My vehicle was broke into (smashed the window) and laptop and other stuff stolen. The police could care less and they knew where it happened and that it was very frequent. There were two other people filing a report at the same time as I. I'm not going after a Super Slam so I'm going to spend my money in America and forget Quebec. No offense to JHA, but even they aren't worth the risk of Quebec and the lack of any protection for consumers from the Quebec government. Grant, the Alaskan tundra is pretty spectacular as well! :) AND if I wanted to I could shoot 5 caribou in the area I'll be hunting."

You have NO recourse with the Canadian Government if anything goes wrong. Why in the world would you want to spend your money with them? Aren't these posts getting old year after year? Keep U.S. Money in the U.S. I've been to Alaska 19 times on hunting and fishing trips. Headed back two more trips next year. And I've never had a single issue with any of my trips. Well, maybe with the exception of this little girl that wanted to eat us.

From: Capt.Bly
12-Aug-13
I have also been notified by SN that I don't have tags for the 2013 season. I was one of the hunters who was suppose to hunt in 2012 that was asked to postpone to 2013. Although I was disappointed I was able to move my hunt to 2013. Now I am being told I must wait until 2014! My issue is I have already scheduled an Elk hunt for 2014 and cannot go to Quebec. I don't care if I shoot one or two bulls, I just wanted to see & hunt the Tundra in 2013. I have asked for a refund from SN but they said no. I also bought trip insurance but they said unless the outfitter goes bankrupt or I have a major medical issue they will not pay the claim. I feel like SN should refund my money as they have not held up they're end of the contract.

From: NY Bowman
12-Aug-13
FullCry, that is an awesome photo. They do add to the trip considerably. Nothing like a grizz to get the blood pumping. I love it!

From: Nick Muche
12-Aug-13
I would be furious. I will do the QL hunt someday and when I do, it will be with JHA. Been looking at them hard the past 6 months and they seem to be the most reputable.

12-Aug-13
If an outfitter cancels your hunt then it should be reimbursed in full. He hasn't given you what you have requested. Your the hunter and this is your vacation/trip....this gives Canadian outfitters a bad name, and it gives Canadian business people a bad reputation. This is a business, and is no different than any other business. The client is always at the top of the list when doing business.

From: Trapper 1
12-Aug-13

From: caribouken
12-Aug-13
Sad to see that this situation appears to have arisen again.. I spent 20+ years as a client and worked shows for various outfitters. The QC govt. has never stepped in and made things right.

BerksArcher.....Where on the George is your photo taken? I spent many years on the Pons/Chateaugay rivers and on stretches of the George.

From: Trapper 1
12-Aug-13
This hunt was to be with my son and a good friend. Two of us might be able to go in 2014 as our schedules are more open. My son has a young family, a job that is demanding and his options to go next year are unclear. It is unlikely that I would go if my son can't swing it. For us it was a one time adventure to be shared with each other. None of us will be going anywhere if Safari Nordik continues to keep our money. Jack Hume has my confidence if we ever get the chance again.

From: Teeton
12-Aug-13
I/we got screwed in Quebec.. Back 15 years ago... I'll never go back again.. Called, wrote letters.

Anyone want to take a guess how many times anyone from Quebec got back to me?? Come on,,,, take some guesses!!!

I remember when Tuttulik screwed a bunch of guys I said that we need to boycott all of Quebec and or start bonding outfitters.. Hell I own a business and I'm bonded so if I screw people... (I bet businesses are already bond in Quebec, just not the ones that do business with sportsmen out side of Quebec) Guys jumped all over me for suggesting that one.. Not the ones that lost money...

Anyway the Quebec government is not going to do a thing if guys from the USA get screwed again.. Now if the sportsmen of the USA start boycotting Quebec and they start loosing 10, 15, 20 million a year,, something will get done... Anyone disagree with me? If this happens again how many of you think that the Quebec government is going to step in and help?? Respectfully Ed Rogalski

From: WapitiBob
12-Aug-13
There's no viable reason to keep a deposit for a hunt that may not take place, other than to pad the bank account.

From: Capt.Bly
12-Aug-13
Not sure how they can get away with not giving us our money back in full when it states in their contract and on their website the following:

Cancellation by Safari Nordik Should SAFARI NORDIK be forced to cancel your reservation, we will do our best to provide you with a reasonable alternative. If this is not deemed acceptable SAFARI NORDIK will reimburse the total amount of the price submitted to that date.

Changes in your package Should a major change occur we will do everything within our power to provide you with an alternative package similar to your initial choice. You can either accept the new arrangements or cancel your prior arrangements within 10 days following our notice. In the latter case, SAFARI NORDIK will reimburse all money submitted to that date. This reimbursement constitutes a final and complete settlement of all claims.

From: bo hntr9
12-Aug-13
4 of us were also booked with SN and got the notice that there would be no refund. Their website still lists the refund policy listed by capt.bly. They knew April 26th that there would not be permits, but took the last $3000 of our payments on June 19th.I have contacted my Visa company. They can't believe a company would do this.

From: bb
12-Aug-13
Tuttulik's contract said something to the same effect. It only means something if they're willing to honor that language.

From: Bill in MI
12-Aug-13
I wonder, if an outfitter that won't take a credit card, and you pay by a cash advance credit card check (generally something to avoid), are you covered the same as a purchase with the actual credit card?

If yes, than that is an idea for the future.

Bill

From: BerksArcher
12-Aug-13
Caribou ken, that pic was taken on the George River just below Twin River lodge.

From: BerksArcher
12-Aug-13
One more thing on JHA, I was stranded in Lac Pau in 2007 due to Infdian uprising in Schefferville and was waiting for days to get to my hunt. It was very frustrating as we had no contact from our outfitter whom I won't name but went out of business 2 yrs later. I was standing outside the flight ops hut and was standing next two this quiet unassuming guy, we were both having a smoke. I started talking to him and learned he was Richard Hume. He was there making sure his hunters were being taken care of. After a nice chat I promised myself that if I made it home alive and ever went on another caribou hunt it would be with JHA. and I did Judst thattwo times since. Being retired military and self employed, I know it when I see a good operation. I've said it before, JHA operates their logistics operation with military precision and that is no BS. I also believe they have a high degree of integrity, which is hard to find in an outfitter. HTH

13-Aug-13
As off Tuesday August 13th 2013 Safari Nordik is still stealing hunters money.

From: caribouken
13-Aug-13
Berks,

I was with a group at Lake Helluva and we came out the week before that event that stranded you happened. I have flown over Twin R. a number of times but I was mostly on the far upper George...Norpaq/George River Outfitters. They still operate a salmon lodge farther down the river. I spent a week at Lac Pau exactly where you were standing (Explo). Spent the week in a camp alone watching for migration. I am sure you have heard of Lake Minto. I started up there in 1987 and saw 3 monster migrations of mostly the George herd up until about 2003. I spent number of years on Minto and the migrations I saw there were mostly made up bulls of the likes I cannot describe. How Tuttulik could screw things up is beyond me.

From: rtkreaper
13-Aug-13
New to bowsite. packing for my 13th trip with JHA. Sept. 3 thru 9. would never consider any other outfitter. Have always had a great time and excellant service. Will be driving up again from northern Minnesota. Caribou 77, arent you from minn? Rory

From: Trapper 1
13-Aug-13
NY Bowman,

Are you willing to share the names of your respected outfitters in Alaska? For sure if I ever go to Quebec it will be with JHA. SN has shown it's integrity. I have been to Alaska on vacations and love it. I never thought about caribou hunting there. You are right. Why not hunt Alaska for caribou. Other than JHA, Quebec seems to have more than it's fair of outfitters that don't know what honor or integrity mean.

From: Rut Nut
15-Aug-13
Well, for anyone who has followed the Quebec Caribou hunting "saga" the last 10 years or so, this should come as NO surpise!

It seems as if the Canadian/Quebec government will do next to nothing to make things right when hunters get screwed up there.

And it seems Canadian outfitters (with a few exceptions) have learned they can get away with taking hunter's money with absolutely no repercussions/restitution. So I would expect things to get worse, if anything. As the few remaining outfitters struggle due to the economy, cut in available tags and closure of hunting grounds, they will be allowed to steal hunter's money before going belly up.

Of course there seems to be one exception to the "rule" when it comes to outfitters in Quebec(one who HAS integrity), but after all the history of hunter rip-offs in Quebec, I am not willing to gamble 6-$8,000 of my hard earned $$$!!!

In fact, after seeing what has been happening up there over the years, I may not EVER hire another outfitter! I am liking DIY hunts more and more...................

From: Bou'bound
15-Aug-13
Never ever anywhere? You'll miss out some some great stuff, but at least you won't get screwed. What was that garth brooks song...........The Dance?

From: BerksArcher
15-Aug-13
Rut, I have found a few great outfitters that I hunt with over and over, all are bowsite sponsors. For caribou, I hunt with JHA. For Spring and Fall bear, I hunt Manitoba with Ron Dare, Bear Track Outfitters, and in New Brunswick, Lloyd Gates, Trophy Hunter Outfitters. I can absolutely trust and recommend them. I am off to a moose hunt with Effords Hunting Adventures 17 Sep in Newfoundland and I hope I can say the same for them. So there are some good ones out there but I have been burned many times and it took me quite some time to find and trust these outfitters I mention. HTH

From: Kevin Dill
15-Aug-13
This is the Story of Quebec Caribou...exception noted for JHA who has produced well it seems. I recall friends going to QL almost 20 years ago and coming back with stories of disappointment r/t outfitters, guides, camp conditions, planes...most of it. One friend of mine has tried multiple QL hunts and basically had one decent hunt...still didn't kill a caribou. I personally think the Q government holds part of the blame for letting this happen, and that's one of the reasons that Q is a very questionable destination for any big game hunts. The government can (and does) make decisions that leaves outfitters and hunters with little option. The hunter ends up taking it on the chin.

As NY Bowman says, Alaska is the total top value in caribou today. You can do two AK caribou hunts...including commercial airfare and Super Cub drop...for what one nice QL bou hunt costs. I'm not talking outfitted hunts, because you simply don't need an outfitter. You need someone to get you to the caribou and then leave you alone to hunt. That's basically all it takes, along with some gear. Do you really need a cook, a cabin, a meat packer, an outhouse, a generator....etc...to kill and retrieve a caribou? I didn't think so either!

15-Aug-13
Kevin, does this...

"You can do two AK caribou hunts...including commercial airfare and Super Cub drop...for what one nice QL bou hunt costs."

include getting your meat and antlers back to the states?

From: Kevin Dill
15-Aug-13
The answer to that depends upon how much meat, and how you want to transport the antlers. Nice thing also is no Customs to pass going either way. You're a US Citizen hunting in the US...and you have US law on your side if anybody does wrong.

I have no personal bone with Quebec...but I highly disapprove of how the vast majority of her outfitters have treated US hunters. The Jack Humes are all too few and far between unfortunately. The northern Canadian tundra is gorgeous. So is the Alaska backcountry in August and September...thick with blueberries, grayling, ptarmigan, etc. You can also buy a black bear tag for a little extra money and suddenly you're a 2-species bowhunter. Don't forget; you can stay and hunt 7, 10, 12 days if you like. No matter how you cut it, the one-time diy Alaska trip comes in much cheaper than the one-time QL hunt.

From: Chip T.
15-Aug-13
Kevin- Your thoughts only work for those guys who are able to do a DIY. Unfortunately, that is a very small sampling of hunters and most guys have to book with an outfitter.

From: Kevin Dill
15-Aug-13
I hear you Chip. Unfortunately for them, I think some guys might wrongly believe a diy hunt is beyond their capabilities. It's actually pretty simple. Camping. Hunting. Meat/trophy recovery. A caribou is smaller than an elk, and a whole lot easier to get next to with a bow. If a guy knows how to tent camp, cook, hunt without a guide, and can butcher a largish deer...he's pretty much ready to go do caribou on his own.

On the other hand, some guys simply can't get away from work for more than 6 or 7 days, and a guided hunt works better. But for the physically healthy guy who can be gone 10 days or so...and has basic woods skills...Alaska is waiting.

From: Rut Nut
15-Aug-13
From: Kevin Dill Date: 15-Aug-13

I have no personal bone with Quebec...but I highly disapprove of how the vast majority of her outfitters have treated US hunters. The Jack Humes are all too few and far between unfortunately. The northern Canadian tundra is gorgeous. So is the Alaska backcountry in August and September...thick with blueberries, grayling, ptarmigan, etc. You can also buy a black bear tag for a little extra money and suddenly you're a 2-species bowhunter. Don't forget; you can stay and hunt 7, 10, 12 days if you like. No matter how you cut it, the one-time diy Alaska trip comes in much cheaper than the one-time QL hunt.

Kevin- it seems our attitude about Quebec Caribou hunting is very similar!

I went in 2005 with an outfitter that is now out of business. We had a good time and I actually came home with a bull, but the outfitter was very unscrupulous in my opinion. Couple that experience with all the problems the last 10 years and It has kind of soured me on ever returning to Canada. There is simply too much you can do DIY in THIS country!

From: Fulldraw1972
15-Aug-13
After hearing all the horror stories I will gladly go to Alaska DIY on a couple of caribou hunts for the price of Quebec. I hear great things about JHA. But I would rather go my own way.

From: Rut Nut
15-Aug-13
From: Bou'bound Date: 15-Aug-13

Never ever anywhere? You'll miss out some some great stuff, but at least you won't get screwed.

Nope, probably not, Bou! I was never gonna be one of those Superslam guys anyway- not eve close! ;-)

I went on a DIY Elk Hunt/Adventure in Montana in 2011 which spurred my interest in DIY hunts. I haven't done a lot of it, but I have always loved backpacking and I camp as much as I can every year. And in a few years when the kids are out on their own, I will have much more vacation time than $$$, so a DIY adventure is a better fit. ;-)

THought I might someday do a Canadian moose hunt with an outfitter, but now it will probably be a DIY adventure in Alaska.

From: Rut Nut
15-Aug-13
BErks- I hope you have great times on your hunts! It's (Quebec) just not for me anymore.

16-Aug-13

FullCryHounds's embedded Photo
FullCryHounds's embedded Photo
Don't forget a NR wolf tag in Alaska is $30, now you're hunting three species. Throw in a moose tag that is also available to non residents without a guide. Now four, all for much less then you could do for one trip in Quebec. Makes no sense to me. The other thing you have in Alaska is an outstanding group of outfitters. The requirements to become an outfitter or even a guide in Alaska takes years! Just to get a guides license in Alaska will take a minimum of three years. That's just for your guide. Not the Outfitter.

Here's a pic of what some of the Alaskan tundra looks like.

From: Kevin Dill
16-Aug-13

Kevin Dill's embedded Photo
Kevin Dill's embedded Photo
FCH has it right. I bought a wolf tag this year, so will have the option to take wolf, bear, moose and caribou during a 12 day backcountry drop hunt. Even on the deluxe plan, I can carry tags for all these species and do it door-to-door for under $6500 unguided. One very cool aspect is that we're camped where we hunt, so sometimes the animals are literally right outside the fringes of camp. We see moose, caribou and bears right from the tent door.

For those who may doubt their own abilities: I have two very good friends that are well into their 60s. They are frequent diy hunters into the backcountry. No horses, atv, argo or anything. They get dropped off by Cub, and they hunt long and deep. They kill and backpack out moose and caribou with amazing regularity. These are just regular guys who still have jobs and work 5 days a week in the lower 48. I'll be seeing them in 3 weeks as we begin another trip into eastern Alaska.

The picture shows a view of our 'little' valley where we enjoy solitude and tremendous hunting.

From: Bill in MI
16-Aug-13
Nice photo Kevin, I can smell the moose in there.

From: wild1
16-Aug-13
I've been wanting to do a Quebec caribou hunt for some time now - every time I get close to booking, one of these threads show up. If I can't book using a credit card (no matter who the outfitter is), I won't book. I remember when Tuttulik was getting rave reviews from hunters on this site, then they screwed hundreds of hunters. The Quebec government makes it very difficult to trust any outfitter.

From: Dooner
16-Aug-13

Dooner's Link
Wild1- here is an outfitter that you can trust & takes major CCs as you can see from his website. He is also a Bowsite sponsor:-)

As a Tuttulik victim, I can totally understand the anger at most outfitters in Quebec. IMHO, to completely write off Quebec is a little overboard. Many here will book hunts in sketchy African, or other, dangerous countries with corrupt governments. With these hunts, it's all about finding the right outfitter that can navigate the local hazards. Now I just see Quebec for what it is, and count on JHA to take care of me.

I think part of our anger is outrage that our northern neighbors could treat us so badly, and be so corrupt. Before we get so high on our horse with Canadians, think about the fact that, for their own personal gain, our elites in Wall Street & Washington recently caused the average American to loose 40% of their net worth and triggered a world wide recession. So far, none of these ba$tard$ have gone to jail. As bad as Quebec is, they are small time thieves when compared to our elite.

From: Bou'bound
16-Aug-13
wild

if you keep waiting you'll spend more in increased costs over the years than you'd lose in a good screwing over.

I waited for 10 plus years out of anxiety then went on three great trips in 2006,07, and 08. That was with tuttulik.

The cost of the trip that first year was 3,795 all in except for tags and tips. you have a hard time finding one for less than double that today.

those hunts will be 10K in 4 years.

i booked with JHA for next year. chose not to use credit card as the surchage is a couple percent and i trust richard implicitly though we have never spoken and won't until i hit the flight base a year from now.

From: Glunt@work
16-Aug-13
Always some risk involved. I did NWT and Quebec (Tuttilik) and had good hunts. Lost a wolverine to a taxidermist in NWT and had some organization issues with Tuttilik but nothing major. I would book with JHA with no hesitation, but if can swing another caribou hunt it will be Alaska.

From: Rut Nut
16-Aug-13
That looks like a great spot, Kevin!

From: NY Bowman
19-Aug-13

NY Bowman's embedded Photo
NY Bowman's embedded Photo
Trapper1, PM me and I'll give you the names of a few very good air taxi guys. It really depends on what herd you want to hunt. Alaska is VERY big and one air taxi does not serve all.

It does have some pretty country.

From: Dwitt2n
19-Aug-13
I've been fortunate to have hunted Quebec 3 times now with 2 of those with Richard (Jack Hume Outfitters). I am booked with Richard and Amanda for my 3rd hunt in 2014. We talked an bit a few months back when all the speculation of 1 tag or 2 was going around - and after I have put my deposit down for my 2014 hunt. The reason I'm hunting with Richard is in part because of the answer he gave me when we talked about cancelling after getting the tag news (I would never cancel just because of 1 tag), which was; Dave, no way would I not refund someones money if they decided they didn't want to hunt with only one tag available. Richard is the kind of guy you would want as your neighbor. Period.

From: 300 Win Mag
19-Aug-13
Kevin Dill, That is an AWESOME PICTURE!

From: Kevin Dill
19-Aug-13
300WM...

Thanks...I think it's pretty easy to take fabulous pictures in wilderness Alaska, though! I will be right there above the river in exactly 3 weeks.

From: Mule Power
19-Aug-13
Jesus! I feel sorry for JHA. That must be like trying to book family vacationers in Afghanistan. Good luck to you but it sounds like times are getting tougher every day over there.

Desperate people and businesses do desperate things and I think things with SN are going to go from bad to worse real fast.

Not so sure I'd ever hunt Quebec again but if for some reason I do I know some really really solid trip insurance policies and I'd spare no expense on the best I could find.

From: huntingbob
20-Aug-13
Spending my money in Alaska this year and I will be a three tag hunter. After reading all of this I believe I will keep spending it here at home.Bob.

From: BC
20-Aug-13

BC's embedded Photo
BC's embedded Photo
Another vote for Alaska. Awesome bowhunting adventure. This is from our 05 DIY hunt west of Bethel.

From: Mule Power
20-Aug-13
Or if AK is too far there's always BC. great multiple species hunts there too. Take your pic of like 18 species of big game.

If I could have been born and raised anywhere else it would be there. My friends up there make me drool with pics every year.

Imagine asking yourself every year: Do I want to hunt moose, griz, stone sheep, mountains goats, elk, caribou, mulies, etc etc etc. Terrible problem to have huh......

Guess I wouldn't be running the beagles much.

From: DoubleShovel
20-Aug-13
I am also a Safari Nordik victim. A lot of you mention why would we ever book a hunt with a Quebec outfitter and the reason I did was because of their contract which states any major change you can get your money refunded. It even states in their e-mail it is a major change. I NEVER thought that a publicly traded company that has been doing business for decades would not honor a LEGAL BINDING document. Kevin from Wisconsin I believe the lack of outcry from hunters due to this situation is that they are still holding on to the hope that we will be issued a license for this year. Up until 8/17/2013 Safari Nordik was still 100% positive a judge would rule in their favor to have all postponed hunters from previous years hunt this year. However last Saturday 8/17/2013 Safari Nordik sent another e-mail stating their attorneys feel a positive outcome will not be reached in time. I was postponed from 2012 to 2013 and my hunt dates are only a month away and I don't know if I am hunting this year or not. I am sick to my stomach and more disappointed than angry. I just don't know what to do and Safari Nordik is ignoring phone calls. If anyone has any advice for the Safari Nordik victims please let us know.

21-Aug-13
DS, how many times do companies from Canada have to ignore their contracts and rip off US hunters before we finally understand that their contracts mean nothing to US hunters and that we have NO recourse when they decide to rip us off!? You might as well not even sign a contract because it doesn't mean a dang thing! The same is not true with an outfitter located within the US, like Alaska. You have all kinds of options if you have a problem here in the states. I have zero sympathy for anyone that has lost their money to another Canadian outfitter, how many years is it going to take before it sinks in?

From: NY Bowman
21-Aug-13
I certainly feel bad for all of those impacted by unscrupulous outfitters and I hope and pray it all works out well. It is a travesty to have life long dreams crushed by bad people. DS, I hope you and the rest get to hunt this year. Buyer beware for all those going forward.

From: Rut Nut
21-Aug-13
FullCry- that's a little harsh, don;t you think?!

I went on my one and only Quebec Caribou hunt back in 2005 and felt good when I signed my contract. Although I had a successful hunt, the guides and outfitter blew smoke up our butts the whole week and outright lied to us several times. They were out of business w/in a couple years, which came as no surprise. Like you say, there is a history hear of Quebec Outfitters being dishonest, and not honoring their contracts. But to put the blame on the customer is very wrong, IMHO! Not everyone is as "educated" on the subject as us bowsiters! Just look at the outfitter's hall at the Harrisburg show every year(well, except last year! ;-)- still lots of folks booking hunts with Quebec Outfitters.

21-Aug-13

Charlie Rehor's Link
Bowsite Sponsor.

21-Aug-13
I have done DIY hunts 3 of the last 5 years out of Fairbanks and can highly recommend an air carrier if it is helpful. All hunts were great.

I continue to vote for Alaska, I also hunted Quebec. On 3 different occasions. Alaska is real hard to beat,

From: oldgoat
21-Aug-13

oldgoat's Link
Doesn't seem to be anything new! Total bummer for a lot of folks!

From: Kevin Dill
21-Aug-13
Here is one undeniable statement:

A hunter going out of country to hunt...has less rights, less legal protection and greater risk of financial loss vs hunting in-country.

My formula:

Weak Quebec Government + Unscrupulous Outfitters x Many Trusting Hunters = Huge Financial Risks and Losses.

Both the Q Gov't and Outfitters will need to change and stand up to protect their ultimate interests, which is of course the continued income from American hunters. You screw people long enough and word will get out that it's just not worth the risk to venture north...to Quebec anyway. The list of outfitters who have cheated clients out of CLIENT money reads like a who's who litany of past (and present) well known caribou outfitters. Government blames outfitters...outfitters blame government...and both walk away without doing anything to help the hunter who lost thousands. If this behavior happened in the USA, a very good and angry group of attorneys would have the outfitter's OOs in a vice in short order.

21-Aug-13
Rut Nut, no I don't. Sometimes the truth hurts. How long does it take to do a little homework before you spend all your hard earned money, especially now days with all the information at your finger tips.

From: Rut Nut
21-Aug-13
WELL, where I come from, you don't blame the victim, no matter how careless, foolish or trusting they may act. Bottom line is the CRIMINAL is the one that stole money and broke the law! All you are doing is rubbing salt in the wounds at his point.

From: bigotisjeff
21-Aug-13
I still dont get why anyone would go back to Quebec?? I understand that Jack Hume does a stand up job, but its about principle now. Why keep giving Quebec and the natives your hard earned money when so many have already lost thousands and it looks like many more are about too. We should all stand together and make it a point not to go. With that amount of money lost, somebody is bound to make things better, but we all know that that will never happen.

Caribou have been on my list for a while and i will go to Alaska to get it.

22-Aug-13
Victim? So it's all the fault of the government and the outfitters? Yea, they certainly shoulder a lot of the blame but certainly not all of it. They certainly didn't force anyone to book a trip with them. How can you not put some of the blame on everyone who continues to book trips to Quebec KNOWING full well that if you have a problem, you have no recourse with the outfitter or the government. Every hunting web sight out there has posts about problems with Canadian outfits that take your money and leave you without a hunt. The outfitters know they don't have to keep their contract because they know their government won't do anything to them. But us dumb Americans continue to send them money, promote their hunts then wonder why we keep losing our money year after year. Sorry but if you book a trip with anyone in Quebec, then get ripped off, some of the blame is on your shoulders.

From: Rut Nut
22-Aug-13
I never said it's ALL the fault of the govt. and outfitters. But IMHO, they are much more to blame than the consumer. They are the ones that made promises to deliver a service and did not deliver! (and kept the money!) That's the bottom line.

From: rodney482
22-Aug-13
I am so glad I hunted with Mirage in 2007 is was a hunt of a lifetime.. We hit the migration perfect..

From: GBH5358
05-Sep-13
I have read thru all the posts on this thread and must say a few things. First of all, the fact that Safari Nordic is ripping off hunters this year is completely true because it has happened to me and 2 of my friends. Second, it sounds like JHA runs a great operation and is a good outfitter, I wish I would have been more educated and booked with JHA instead. Third, I will reserve what I want to say in response to some of the post stating it is my fault SN is stealing my money along with 200 other hunters'. We researched the various hunts and chose SN Because they had a slot that allowed us to drive up on a Friday, hunt thru the week and drive back to NC the following weekend. This was very attractive to us as we would not have to take 2 weeks off from work as many operations run mid week to mid of the following week. We also wanted to bring all our meat, horns and capes back with us as opposed to shipping them. After seeing multiple Hunting shows of various famous personalities at their camps, they looked like they would be reputable. After many conversation with Martin, we sent our deposit in February. In early may I ran across the government mandate with the new tag allotments. I called Martin the the very next day and was assured there would be no issues with our hunt. About a month later we spoke again and I was assured again there were no issues with tags and we would still be able to harvest 2 animals and that starting in 2014, hunters would be limited to 1. On the evening of July 30th, the three of us received an email informing us they did not have enough tags, they conducted an internal lottery, and we were not successful and they could not honor our hunt! The email went on to say we could advise them by August 5 if we wished to participate in their effort to peruse the government legally to acquire our tags, this would cost US $2000 each, payable if they were successful and upon our arrival in Montreal for our hunt. The other option is to postpone our hunt to 2014. The closing sentences basically said "sorry", "the money is already spent" and "no refunds". I Freaked! I immediately called the1800 number and it had been routed to a guy named Steve in California. He basically told me the same bulls$&/t. The next day, I left 4 messages at their regular office line. After no returned calls, and at least 25 calls a day for 2 days I finally spoke to Nicholous, and same heard the same bull$&@t excuses for 10minutes, and again "no refunds". I called again the next day and got Martin and we talked for 15minutes. I reminded him of the multiple emails and calls we exchanged, particularly the ones right after the April 26 government decree, and his assurance it was fine. I honestly think the guy felt bad and is simply following marching orders from his superiors. Now I understand about losing tags and they cannot control the government, but I am pissed that knew the tag situation in late april and continued to book hunts, including taking our 14000 balance in mid June. I was told by Martin that this effects about 200 hunters, at 7000 each, that's 1.4 million they intend to keep. I make it a point to call them every 3 or 4 days and as of yesterday, 9/4 we still do not know if we have a hunt or not for the last week of September. I think they are stalling to the end of this season and intend to shut off their phones and screw everyone. We want our money back because I do not trust them to honor a future hunt or if they will even be in business next year! I have contacted micheal Waddell, Greg ritz, Colorado buck, the outdoor channel and Keith warren. The ony response I have received was Keith Warren whom with which we traded several emails. I also spoke with an attorney in Montreal who wanted $2000 to write them a letter- no thanks! I guess us dumb Americans do not matter to quebec and since we are all out of the country, they can treat us however they want. We need to get the word out to everyone we can, and the effected could possible start a class action lawsuit against SN with a law firm that would work on commission but I suspect SN will end up filing bankruptcy and we will all get screwed! This would have been my 6th trip to Canada and second to Quebec and all were top notch. I hope it works out but do not have much hope anymore. We worked hard for our 7000 each and now they are stealing it! If any of you ever see an irrate guy at a hunting show being handcuffed in front of a trashed safari Nordic booth and a couple outfiters with the crap beat out of them lying on the floor, it will probably me!!!!

From: Bou'bound
06-Sep-13
good post but withthe breaks inserted it is more readable.

I have read thru all the posts on this thread and must say a few things. First of all, the fact that Safari Nordic is ripping off hunters this year is completely true because it has happened to me and 2 of my friends. Second, it sounds like JHA runs a great operation and is a good outfitter, I wish I would have been more educated and booked with JHA instead. Third, I will reserve what I want to say in response to some of the post stating it is my fault SN is stealing my money along with 200 other hunters'.

We researched the various hunts and chose SN Because they had a slot that allowed us to drive up on a Friday, hunt thru the week and drive back to NC the following weekend. This was very attractive to us as we would not have to take 2 weeks off from work as many operations run mid week to mid of the following week. We also wanted to bring all our meat, horns and capes back with us as opposed to shipping them.

After seeing multiple Hunting shows of various famous personalities at their camps, they looked like they would be reputable. After many conversation with Martin, we sent our deposit in February. In early may I ran across the government mandate with the new tag allotments. I called Martin the the very next day and was assured there would be no issues with our hunt. About a month later we spoke again and I was assured again there were no issues with tags and we would still be able to harvest 2 animals and that starting in 2014, hunters would be limited to 1.

On the evening of July 30th, the three of us received an email informing us they did not have enough tags, they conducted an internal lottery, and we were not successful and they could not honor our hunt! The email went on to say we could advise them by August 5 if we wished to participate in their effort to peruse the government legally to acquire our tags, this would cost US $2000 each, payable if they were successful and upon our arrival in Montreal for our hunt. The other option is to postpone our hunt to 2014.

The closing sentences basically said "sorry", "the money is already spent" and "no refunds". I Freaked! I immediately called the1800 number and it had been routed to a guy named Steve in California. He basically told me the same bulls$&/t. The next day, I left 4 messages at their regular office line. After no returned calls, and at least 25 calls a day for 2 days I finally spoke to Nicholous, and same heard the same bull$&@t excuses for 10minutes, and again "no refunds". I called again the next day and got Martin and we talked for 15minutes. I reminded him of the multiple emails and calls we exchanged, particularly the ones right after the April 26 government decree, and his assurance it was fine.

I honestly think the guy felt bad and is simply following marching orders from his superiors. Now I understand about losing tags and they cannot control the government, but I am pissed that knew the tag situation in late april and continued to book hunts, including taking our 14000 balance in mid June. I was told by Martin that this effects about 200 hunters, at 7000 each, that's 1.4 million they intend to keep. I make it a point to call them every 3 or 4 days and as of yesterday, 9/4 we still do not know if we have a hunt or not for the last week of September.

I think they are stalling to the end of this season and intend to shut off their phones and screw everyone. We want our money back because I do not trust them to honor a future hunt or if they will even be in business next year! I have contacted micheal Waddell, Greg ritz, Colorado buck, the outdoor channel and Keith warren. The ony response I have received was Keith Warren whom with which we traded several emails. I also spoke with an attorney in Montreal who wanted $2000 to write them a letter- no thanks! I guess us dumb Americans do not matter to quebec and since we are all out of the country, they can treat us however they want. We need to get the word out to everyone we can, and the effected could possible start a class action lawsuit against SN with a law firm that would work on commission but I suspect SN will end up filing bankruptcy and we will all get screwed! This would have been my 6th trip to Canada and second to Quebec and all were top notch.

I hope it works out but do not have much hope anymore. We worked hard for our 7000 each and now they are stealing it! If any of you ever see an irrate guy at a hunting show being handcuffed in front of a trashed safari Nordic booth and a couple outfiters with the crap beat out of them lying on the floor, it will probably me!!!!

From: XMan
06-Sep-13
The title of the thread says "Safari Nordik Ripping Off Hunters"

I think we all agree that SN did rip off these guys so I wont debate it.

Yet some of you jack@sses want to come on this thread and kick the man while he's down. Absolutely pathetic....

How about some positive karma and support for our fellow brothers instead of the know it all crap that I see far to often on here.

From: Dooner
06-Sep-13
Sorry to hear your story GBH. I had the same thing happen to me and a group of bowsiters with Tuttulik. I'm sorry to say that you don't have much hope. With our debacle, even though we had a list of hunters that got screwed, no legal action was really viable. I think the only thing that would have a chance of working is a class action lawsuit. Good Luck.

From: mixed bag
06-Sep-13
I'm glad this is at least posted on here for us all to know about for future reference.I feel bad for you guys having 7k basically stolen from you.I would never point the blame on the customer.Look how many guys book hunts on here to Canada.The moose threads are full of Newfoundland hunters,and none that I know of have been ripped off yet I'm just finishing my trip to Alaska for caribou and highly recommend you guys head there if you were to ever see any money returned

From: Bou'bound
06-Sep-13
GBH - An abomination to be sure, but just to clarify has anyone been told their money will not be applied to a hunt or is the problem that they may have to fit into a future schedule and their will be a 1 bou limit at the time.

Bankruptcy, etc. is speculation at this point. Tuttulik told people on day 1 of the disclosure of the issue that the hunts are off, your money is lost, we're closing down this operation, no future no hope. Is SN taking that stance at this point?

From: Dooner
07-Sep-13
Actually, Tuttulick's initial story was that they were going to try and arrange financing for a hunt later in the year, which then became trading for a hunt the following year, and finally all their phones were disconnected and they disappeared. Watch this unfold the same way.

From: MBMule
08-Sep-13
I really feel bad for the guys that lost their money or even have to postpone until next year. However, I hope that you don't judge all outfitters in Canada by the disreputable ones in Queerbec. I wish their referendum to leave Canada and form their own country would have been successful. The Quebec government hates Anglophones and will go to great lengths to ensure that they protect their own. Personally, when I go for Quebec-Labrador Caribou, it will be with JHA, if at all.

From: Bou'bound
08-Sep-13
How does that make sense? Advising folks not to stereotype all Canadian outfitters based on the actions of a few but you should stereotype all Quebec outfitters based on the actions of a few.

Maybe better just to hold each other responsible for their actions and not the actions of others to whom there is no relationship.

08-Sep-13

From: MBMule
08-Sep-13
BouBound, I didn't say all outfitters in Quebec are bad, I said don't judge the rest of the outfitters in Canada by the disreputable ones in Quebec, quite a few of which have been mentioned on this thread. This was mostly a response to the people who were suggesting don't go to Canada at all because we're all a bunch of crooks and the government won't do anything to help Americans get their money back. I followed that up by saying I would only ever hunt with JHA, who is a Quebec outfitter that I hold in high regard and the only one I ever hear mentioned when people are asking about good caribou outfitters in Quebec.

08-Sep-13
Are you FLIPPING kidding me???????????!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, I gotta say that the "know-it-all" attitudes and the "you got what you deserved" crap is as STUPID and hard to listen too as the actual act of stealing and theft taking place at the expense of these hunters. And it makes it a certainty that those same big mouthed morons will some day find themselves in the same predicament. That goes for the people who kick you when you are down. That is the way life works. You get what you give. I still am not sure what is worse at this point as I type this, the actual act of the injustice or the real piece of work acting like it was the clients fault.

You can't prepare for thieves. Because you are not a thief and do not see how it could go wrong with the promises on the webpage. You also cannot prepare for the stupid expressed by FCH either. You can only know that he will get what he has coming in one way or the other.

I have went from all out deranged about the SN doing this to all out deranged listening to the crap this idiot is spewing. Anyways, I'll get over myself and just say that I hope and pray that the victims here get their money back. Good luck and God Bless.

From: PAstringking
08-Sep-13
Just want clarify something that has been said above...

Comparing a fully outfitted caribou hunt in Quebec at $8000 to a fully DIY hunt in Alaska at $3500... is not comparing apples to apples.

Some guys really live and love DIY hunts... some others dont care for them.

A fully outfitted Caribou hunt in Alaska is going to be similarly priced if not MORE expensive.

And like stated above... some guys like chasing the different sub-species of caribou. Cant hunt your Quebec Labrador Caribou in Alaska.

From: Teeton
08-Sep-13
I'm still saying that maybe outfitters need to be bonded. I'm bonded to do business.. Maybe the US government may have to step in, since the quebec government will not step in and doesn't give a f*#& about anyone from outside of quebec. Ed

From: cariboukid
09-Sep-13
....Or you can choose to hunt with an outfitter from Quebec who has been owned by the same family (Humes)for over 30 years, under the same name (Jack Hume Adventures) and who offers complete packages from 1x6 outpost camps all the way up to fully guided hunts ranging from $6000.00 to $8000.00 (including charter flights from Montreal, licenses, meals and all taxes).

Also bear in mind that when we canceled one week of our hunt we actually gave back over $75 000.00 in deposits to our clients with no questions asked and they had the option to then rebook for the following year or take their money elsewhere. I'm just saying....Just because we might be operating from Quebec our track record easily proves that we can be trusted. We have been for over three decades and still going strong. You can not compare what we offer to a drop camp in Alaska nor a road hunt in Alaska for that matter.

I personally scout our camps with our Cessna 185 and we never just drop anyone off to fend for themselves. If I was sending hunters in without scouting our camps we would not average anywhere near the success rates that we offer our clients. We also have cabins, showers, oil or wood heat, beds with mattresses and satellite communication at all of our camps. So, not only do we cater to every detail of your hunt but we also include a degree of comfort that a drop camp simply would not offer. Not to mention we actually move our hunters to a more productive camp if and when possible and at no extra charge. If convenience is a factor then the fact that all you have to do is get yourself to Montreal where we offer free secured parking and/or where affordable daily flights coming in from anywhere throughout north America are an option then Quebec might be an attractive alternative.

I also fly in and pick up your caribou mid week and hang it in our walk in cold room, we salt your capes, provide our clients with airline friendly meat boxes to travel home with and we have a 2nd walk in cold room along with a butcher and taxidermist lined up for anyone wishing to use those services upon arrival in Montreal.

I agree that for some perhaps a drop camp in Alaska is the experience they desire and I can see why some would want to have that experience but it is not for everyone and we must compare apples to apples. If all I had to do was fly in with my 185 and drop a couple of hunters off with a tent and sleeping bags I could do it for $3000.00 or less but a guided caribou hunt pretty much any where in North America will cost you at least $1000.00 more than the same guided hunt in Quebec and you certainly won't receive the same amount of services and the prices won't be going down any time soon unless our cost go down. I think even though our hunts have become quite expensive that you are getting plenty of bang for your buck and yes you can trust us. It means as much to me for you to enjoy your time with us as it means to you. We all take a great deal of pride in our operation.

Richard

From: Bou'bound
09-Sep-13
the feedback on these threads that DIY is a comparable option for any one interested in a hunt is pure malarkey.

it is akin to someone on an automotive site saying what does a transmission job cost? yes, there are some unique folks who have the time, talent, lack of funds, or lack of other things going on in life that would make them doing their own transmission at a lower cost a viable option to a certified mechanic doing the work. to them.........go for it.

the majority however, have neither the time, desire, knowledge, or confidence to do it themselves so they will do what 98% of the people do and look to an expert to get them set up right with a quality transmission job.

nothing wrong with either way, but to compare the two in the same discussion as comparable options for any given individual is unrealistic most of the time as the demands on the person under the two models are materially different.

A guy can fit a great guided hunt in to his life very readily. to coordinate and execute a DIY is just not reasonable for most people who have a lot of higher priorities in life, many competing pressures on their time and attention, a lack of specialized equipment, and in most instances a readily available partner or two who share the same desire.

it does not make them less of a hunter or a person looking to be baby sat or taking the easy way out. in nearly all cases it comes down the the best option considering many variables and nothing more or less than that.

From: PAstringking
09-Sep-13
Great post Richard. Hope all is well

From: GBH5358
10-Sep-13
I think everyone is getting off track. This thread is not about JHA being a bad outfitter, which is certainly not true, or DIY caribou hunts-there are other threads for that or someone start a new one specifically for a DIY bou trip. This would have been my 6th trip to Canada and all the previous where great.

The thread is about SN not honoring close to 200 2013 hunts and refusing to refund the hunter's money. They have offered to postpone the hunts to 2014 but I really don't trust them anymore and want my money back. Also we all paid to harvest 2 caribou. i was told by SN that starting in 2014, Hunters will only be allowed 1.

Give the 3 off us in my group back our 7300 each and we will book something else for next year as its probably too late to find anything open this year. But honestly, I see a screwing coming.

I talked to SN again this past Friday, 9/9 and was told their meeting was post-poned again to this week. They are stalling to the end of the season and plan on walking away from all of it is now my belief.

11-Sep-13
If you have Facebook check out their page, Safari Nordik ,you will also be able to post your complaint directly and get any updates.

From: Drop tine
11-Sep-13
I see that SN just posted this response on their FB page:

The season is going off partially as planned. Hunting has been great and everyone has taken their bulls. The only thing missing is all of our valued clients that were held back with the government tag allocation. We are in a meeting today about the tag allocation, and I hope we can get some news regarding all of our hunters. I will post the results as soon as the info becomes clear and 100%. In the light of the one caribou instead of two, we have started drafting a plan to our hunters that will allow them to hunt two caribou with us.

In closing, I am deeply concerned and troubled about this horrible situation and the things that are beyond our control. But I have an offer for my hunters that will allow you the opportunity to get the two caribou you are after. However, it is a Safari Nordik offer only. As a company with over three decades of outfitting experience, we sympathize with you and appreciate you. Even though we will need in excess of 400 permits for 2014, I can guarantee there will be a greater number of permits this coming season as the other outfitters continue struggle with bookings and the fact that they don't have any of their own camps in the hunting area. As things continue to tighten on hunting Safari Nordik is fortunate to be the only outfitter to own all the 32 camps we have in the only open caribou unit and will continue to move forward in this time of bad government policy. And for that reason you will all hunt for sure in 2014.

We are trusted by hundreds more sportsman every year then any other outfitter. That alone speaks for itself. And have been so for over 30 years. Only achieved by our reputation. Our growth is simply because service and quality, and we continue to grow, I think simply because you don't hear our ambassadors (past hunters) bashing anyone of our competition. They will just talk about us and their experience. Negative attitudes with sportsman only get you bit. We don't have little cyber bullies hacking nonsense and spreading filth on the web, hiding behind a computer screen, we simply have real hunters with real results every time. Thats what we do and our client list proves it. We understand hating the big guy, but you cannot judge anything by the words of someone who has never seen for them self or has never even stepped foot in the tundra with me.

From: bo hntr9
15-Sep-13
four of us who had booked for 2013 and had trip canceled got refunds via our credit cards even though SD said they would not refund. They now have 45 days to appeal, but I don't think they can make a case.

From: Rockbass
17-Sep-13
To all those that included all the other Provinces and Territories in with Quebec....Shame on you.

I am from Canada and can say without reservation that "The Talk" in most of (Possibly All!)of the other Provinces and the Territories is that they are fed up with Quebec bullshit! We are not just talking about outfitters and hunting.

I have been on numerous outfitted hunts in the other Provinces and the Territories and have had great experiences. I have also hunted Caribou in Quebec 5 times but never with SN. I feel sorry for all those that I believe are "Getting Screwed" but please do not lump the rest of us Canadians in with " Quebec"...as far as Jack Hume Adventures...never heard anything but good.

From: Rockbass
17-Sep-13
To all those that included all the other Provinces and Territories in with Quebec....Shame on you.

I am from Canada and can say without reservation that "The Talk" in most of (Possibly All!)of the other Provinces and the Territories is that they are fed up with Quebec bullshit! We are not just talking about outfitters and hunting.

I have been on numerous outfitted hunts in the other Provinces and the Territories and have had great experiences. I have also hunted Caribou in Quebec 5 times but never with SN. I feel sorry for all those that I believe are "Getting Screwed" but please do not lump the rest of us Canadians in with " Quebec"...as far as Jack Hume Adventures...never heard anything but good.

From: MBMule
17-Sep-13
Amen Rockbass.

From: Bou'bound
18-Sep-13
Canada and canadians make a wonderful experience for hunters. actions of a few don't stain the balance of the good ones in the minds of people who are reasonable and fair.

18-Sep-13
awesome news!

The credit card company has given my father in law a full refund!

hopefully all other hunters who were taken have the same luck.

From: rtkreaper
19-Sep-13
Wow!!! Somebody sure needs a hug and a cookie. Rory

From: CPAhunter
19-Sep-13
Congrats Kevin from Wisconsin! Glad to hear the credit card company honored the customer request!

Hug sent to trophy. Hope you feel better in the morning.

19-Sep-13

" target="_blank" class="button">Kevin from Wisconsin's Link
trophymanager / Kurt Santoro - you might have posted the most ridiculous post in the history of the bowsite.

you should read the post before you write and try not to make yourself look like a fool. The credit card company made my father-in-law whole. It was a long process, but all monies from the thieves have been returned.

kurt said "Its people like you and your 3rd hand info that cause so much disruption and untruthful gossip." There is nothing but the truth here, but you don't seem to like the truth only name calling and ad hominem attacks.

From: bigotisjeff
19-Sep-13
Good news indeed....

Trophymanager- you need to go back and re-read the original post before you come off looking like a fool...

19-Sep-13
Too late for Kurt.

By the way, the company that charged a credit card does not have to let or authorize a refund before the credit card issuer makes the refund.

But your 4th hand info and attempt at playground condescension was humorous.

From: pav
19-Sep-13
Too late for Kurt is right. Wow!

"Safari Nordik doesn't need or want dishonest people like you in our world." Dishonest? Seriously?

Isn't this the same guy that posted a hunt report as a "client" of Safari Nordik this time last year?

19-Sep-13
Hey Kurt, since you're the West Coast Office associate for SN...and seem to know so much about the refund that came from the card company not SN....when will SN be refunding the hunters? We wouldn't want SN to get a bad name now would we...so When?

And actually it's outfitters like Tuttulik and now Safari Nordik that give Quebec outfitters a bad name...they really don't need any help from us, just saying.

From: wild1
19-Sep-13
I, for one, appreciate the information that Kevin from Wisconsin has posted - it's very helpful for past and future hunters. PAV, I think you're right about Kurt......he's seems to come off as a loser every time he posts something. It seems to me that both Kurt, and SN lack integrity.

From: Dooner
19-Sep-13
trophymanager / Kurt Santoro - Not a good representation of your business as a booking agent for SN. Below is a quote from your website:

"by representing Safari Nordik and many other top outfitters in the world, we can arrange hunting excursions globally. From the booking of the hunt through to the finished taxidermy piece being delivered to your home, we are able to provide all of our clients with worry free hunting destinations anywhere in the world."

So, just how do you expect your clients to believe that SN is a "worry free" hunting destination?

For your information, a CC card company can force a refund when they feel there has been fraud or breach of contract. When is SN going to refund those unfortunate hunters that didn't pay with a CC?

From: Dooner
19-Sep-13

19-Sep-13
good to see all you hackers know nothing other than what you assume. It was my account that refunded the money, so take your 4th hand info and you know, now kids a c/c company cant force anything. Fraud is also against the consumer like you. Good to see your all lawyers and bankers too. Lol you guys are an embarrassment to all outdoorsmen. What a shame and none of you have ever stepped foot in the tundra with me. Continually passing judgement on things that have nothing to do with you. And no, you guys drive a wedge between all sportsman. Badgering a hunter with a gun, crossbow or what ever he chooses. The funny thing is I have posted on FB an offer that several of you bowsites responded to. But I wont tell your name, must be a lack of morals. All I can do is laugh at you guys that do more harm to the sporting industry than good. My post was deleted because the truth hurts and the truth always comes out. Put the post back up bowsite. You want to be part of the lies her. Put it back up.. The truth hurts. And dont talk to me about refunds you liers. I refunded the money. I guess thats fraud too.

From: spike buck
19-Sep-13
trophymanager, cc company WILL reverse a charge to a card then send a letter to sn or whoever, giving sn a chance to dispute as to why they believe it should not be reversed. That is the nice thing about paying with a card. They reverse the charge, then ask questions later. GOOD LUCK to all hunters on your predicament.

19-Sep-13
it was my business account that refunded the money. I am well aware of the C/C procedures. But I/we are thief's remember.

From: spike buck
19-Sep-13
Actually if you get a certain amount of reverses against your business, your ability to take cards for payment will be cancelled by the bank. I am a Canadian business, I know what I had to sign in order to take a cc for payment.

From: spike buck
19-Sep-13
Also trophymanager, YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF!!!! Treating hunters this way.

From: Stick
19-Sep-13
good to see all you hackers know nothing other than what you assume. It was my account that refunded the money, so take your 4th hand info and you know, now kids a c/c company cant force anything. Fraud is also against the consumer like you. Good to see your all "lawyers and bankers too. Lol you guys are an embarrassment to all outdoorsmen. What a shame and none of you have ever stepped foot in the tundra with me. Continually passing judgement on things that have nothing to do with you. And no, you guys drive a wedge between all sportsman. Badgering a hunter with a gun, crossbow or what ever he chooses. The funny thing is I have posted on FB an offer that several of you bowsites responded to. But I wont tell your name, must be a lack of morals. All I can do is laugh at you guys that do more harm to the sporting industry than good. My post was deleted because the truth hurts and the truth always comes out. Put the post back up bowsite. You want to be part of the lies her. Put it back up.. The truth hurts. And dont talk to me about refunds you liers. I refunded the money. I guess thats fraud too."

I have no dog in this fight but now that I have read through this thread my curiosity has piqued. So, Mr. Trophymanager, I guess you can put this whole thing to rest by just answering a couple of simple questions.

1.) Have the people that paid for hunts that they did not receive been given their money back?

2.) If they haven't gotten their money back yet, when can they expect it?

19-Sep-13
trophymanager - If indeed you have willingly refunded fees out of your account, making good for hunters who've lost a hunt, you should be commended. I'm sure that the clients who've been made whole will be glad to sing your praises and set everyone straight as to the benefits of using you as a booking agent.

I am neither a hacker, a lawyer nor a banker, however I deal with credit card companies and their processors daily.

I don't badger hunters, but according to my wife, I am an ebarrassment to all outdoorsman when I dance. For that, I apologize.

From: Crazy_8s
19-Sep-13
I'm not affected by the SN situation and I feel for the folks affected. Hunters as well a booking agents. By following this thread I'm learning a great deal about the lack of professionalism and ethics by some in the guiding/booking industry. Getting harder and harder to find reputable folks to do business with...

This Topic has been locked. Thank you.

  • Sitka Gear