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2014 New England Moose Draws
Sitka Gear
2014 New England Moose Draws
Moose
Contributors to this thread:
Ace 30-Jan-14
jax2009r 30-Jan-14
Mint 30-Jan-14
Neubauer 30-Jan-14
XMan 30-Jan-14
Ace 30-Jan-14
XMan 30-Jan-14
mixed bag 30-Jan-14
bill v 30-Jan-14
ridgerunnerron 30-Jan-14
DonVathome 31-Jan-14
phutch30 31-Jan-14
Bou'bound 31-Jan-14
BULELK1 31-Jan-14
Zim1 01-Feb-14
ridgerunnerron 01-Feb-14
ridgerunnerron 01-Feb-14
Gene 01-Feb-14
car 01-Feb-14
IdyllwildArcher 01-Feb-14
Wilmotite 02-Feb-14
bigbuck 02-Feb-14
DonVathome 03-Feb-14
BC 03-Feb-14
jax2009r 03-Feb-14
willliamtell 03-Feb-14
Gene 03-Feb-14
Sage Buffalo 03-Feb-14
Ace 03-Feb-14
sticksender 03-Feb-14
lawdy 03-Feb-14
relliK reeD 04-Feb-14
Julius K 04-Feb-14
Sage Buffalo 04-Feb-14
jax2009r 04-Feb-14
TSI 04-Feb-14
jax2009r 04-Feb-14
ridgerunnerron 04-Feb-14
relliK reeD 04-Feb-14
relliK reeD 04-Feb-14
TSI 04-Feb-14
TSI 04-Feb-14
Gene 05-Feb-14
Ace 10-Feb-14
Ace 18-Feb-14
phutch30 18-Feb-14
Box 18-Feb-14
sticksender 18-Feb-14
IdyllwildArcher 18-Feb-14
ridgerunnerron 19-Feb-14
DonVathome 19-Feb-14
mixed bag 19-Feb-14
DonVathome 19-Feb-14
Zim1 19-Feb-14
lawdy 20-Feb-14
Ace 20-Feb-14
ridgerunnerron 20-Feb-14
Zim1 20-Feb-14
Mainer 21-Feb-14
Zim1 21-Feb-14
car 21-Feb-14
Ace 21-Feb-14
ridgerunnerron 21-Feb-14
Bou'bound 21-Feb-14
Zim1 21-Feb-14
Mainer 21-Feb-14
Sage Buffalo 21-Feb-14
Zim1 22-Feb-14
relliK reeD 24-Feb-14
bigbuck 27-Feb-14
mixed bag 28-Feb-14
Ace 28-Feb-14
elmer@laptop 28-Feb-14
bigbuck 01-Mar-14
Ace 03-Mar-14
relliK reeD 03-Mar-14
ridgerunnerron 03-Mar-14
bigbuck 04-Mar-14
Ace 06-Mar-14
Ace 07-Mar-14
Zim1 08-Mar-14
Ace 04-Apr-14
Xman59 10-May-14
Xman59 10-May-14
Ace 10-May-14
Xman59 10-May-14
Zim1 12-May-14
Ace 12-May-14
Xman59 12-May-14
Zim1 12-May-14
Zim1 12-May-14
Xman59 12-May-14
Zim1 12-May-14
Xman59 12-May-14
Xman59 13-May-14
Zim1 13-May-14
Xman59 13-May-14
Zim1 14-May-14
Ace 14-May-14
ridgerunnerron 14-May-14
Xman59 14-May-14
IdyllwildArcher 14-May-14
sticksender 14-May-14
Xman59 14-May-14
Xman59 14-May-14
Xman59 14-May-14
MaineFlatlander 14-May-14
Xman59 14-May-14
Zim1 15-May-14
Ace 15-May-14
Zim1 15-May-14
Xman59 15-May-14
ridgerunnerron 15-May-14
petedrummond 15-May-14
Bou'bound 16-May-14
Xman59 16-May-14
Zim1 16-May-14
Ace 04-Jun-14
Ace 14-Jun-14
Ace 14-Jun-14
Ace 14-Jun-14
Ace 14-Jun-14
car 14-Jun-14
MQQSE 14-Jun-14
hunt-em-high 14-Jun-14
ridgerunnerron 15-Jun-14
Steve Leffler 15-Jun-14
hunt-em-high 15-Jun-14
Zim1 15-Jun-14
Mainer 15-Jun-14
ridgerunnerron 15-Jun-14
Zim1 15-Jun-14
Zim1 15-Jun-14
Mainer 15-Jun-14
MQQSE 15-Jun-14
MQQSE 15-Jun-14
MQQSE 16-Jun-14
Ace 16-Jun-14
Zim1 16-Jun-14
MQQSE 16-Jun-14
hurricane 17-Jun-14
Ace 17-Jun-14
Zim1 17-Jun-14
Ace 17-Jun-14
grizzlyadam 17-Jun-14
bigbuck 18-Jun-14
Ace 18-Jun-14
Ace 20-Jun-14
sticksender 20-Jun-14
Gene 20-Jun-14
BC 20-Jun-14
TradbowBob 21-Jun-14
bigbuck 21-Jun-14
ridgerunnerron 21-Jun-14
bill v 24-Jun-14
Ace 17-Jul-14
Xman59 29-Jul-14
From: Ace
30-Jan-14

Ace's Link
The New Hampshire Draw is open (at link). The cost to enter for a Nonresident is $25, and the deadline to apply is May 30. The drawing is June, 20.

Your odds are not great but people do draw, and one thing is for sure; if you don't enter you can't win.

I drew a VT permit last year (Archery) and had a great hunt. This is a beautiful part of the country, and you can certainly DIY if you like.

Maine, and VT to follow!

Good luck,

From: jax2009r
30-Jan-14
I just read they reduced the number of tags again.....can't win if you dont play

From: Mint
30-Jan-14
I stopped applying a couple of years ago when I found out that a bunch of resident familys up there play the game so they always draw.

They have family members build up points and then when the want to draw they put the hunter of the family on the application as the second hunter and get the tag.

If they only let one hunter get on the tag at the drawing time I might start up again. Just my opinion.

From: Neubauer
30-Jan-14
Don't bother in NH. They just cut the tags by 50%. Now down to like 139 total tags. Not long ago it was over 600.

From: XMan
30-Jan-14
I was just going to say the same as Neubauer, save your money on NH. I have applied for 15 years, never again.

From: Ace
30-Jan-14
If you guys talk enough people out of applying, I'll draw for sure.

From: XMan
30-Jan-14
I hope you do draw, you would be one lucky guy to get a VT tag and now NH!

From: mixed bag
30-Jan-14
I'm always in for all 3 states.Someday I will see my name on the list.Its cheap enough for the chance

From: bill v
30-Jan-14
Dang. they cut tags again. Guess those ticks really did a number on the herd.

My Dad (res) had a cow tag last year, Didnt see a lot of moose but, he really doesn't walk too good. We didn't cover much ground. Did see a decent bull in G and helped a guy get a decent one out.

I've been in this draw for a long time, always figured I would draw someday. Thats starting to look bleak.

Maybe a lot of guys will drop out. Good luck to us.

Bill V.

30-Jan-14
New news doesn't sound good at all here.

From: DonVathome
31-Jan-14
Yikes tag cuts hurt. I think Maine now squares points right? I have 14 in Maine so maybe my odds will be up to 2% :)

From: phutch30
31-Jan-14
Maybe the cold weather this winter will kill off some ticks

From: Bou'bound
31-Jan-14
It is cold every winter

From: BULELK1
31-Jan-14
I will be in again-----all 3.....

Spending time growing up in Maine---

I need any excuse so I can to get back to 'New England'...

Good luck, Robb

From: Zim1
01-Feb-14
Wow that's a lot of tags cut. Really glad I was able to burn my NH points in 2012. If I started again from ground zero, the odds were below 1/10th of 1%, so I am done applying there. I'm up in the 15 point pool now in Maine so with the new regs my NR points are multiplied and should draw some day.

01-Feb-14
DonV- No Maine does NOT square points.

Bonus points are accumulated as shown below:

0 - 5 years = one point per year 6 - 10 years = two points per year 11 - 15 years = three points per year 16+ years = 10 points per year

Count the number of years you have applied since 1998 without winning or skipping a year (See chart below)

Example: If this is your 16th year of applying for a moose permit since 1998 without winning or skipping a year, you will have 40 bonus points this year. The maximum amount of points a person could possibly have without skipping a year as of 2014 would be 40 points.

1 year = 1 bonus point

10 years = 15 bonus points

19 years = 70 bonus points

28 years = 160 bonus points

2 years = 2 bonus points

11 years = 18 bonus points

20 years = 80 bonus points

29 years = 170 bonus points

3 years = 3 bonus points

12 years = 21 bonus points

21 years = 90 bonus points

30 years = 180 bonus points

4 years = 4 bonus points

13 years = 24 bonus points

22 years = 100 bonus points

31 years = 190 bonus points

5 years = 5 bonus points

14 years = 27 bonus points

23 years = 110 bonus points

32 years = 200 bonus points

6 years = 7 bonus points

15 years = 30 bonus points

24 years = 120 bonus points

33 years = 210 bonus points

7 years = 9 bonus points

16 years = 40 bonus points

25 years = 130 bonus points

34 years = 220 bonus points

8 years = 11 bonus points

17 years = 50 bonus points

26 years = 140 bonus points

35 years = 230 bonus points

9 years = 13 bonus points

18 years = 60 bonus points

27 years = 150 bonus points

36 years = 240 bonus points

Bonus points are tracked by the Department using the applicant's name and date of birth. Bonus points are not transferable.

To receive bonus points, please make sure to enter your correct name and date of birth on the application. Also, you need to indicate that you applied for the lottery last year. The online application will search our database for your name and date of birth, and indicate the number of bonus points you have. If you do not agree with the number of bonus points indicated, you should contact the Department.

01-Feb-14
Sorry the years did not come out in numerical order when I copied from www.maine.gov and pasted here.

From: Gene
01-Feb-14

Gene's embedded Photo
Gene's embedded Photo
I did a 6 day grouse hunt in NH in 2013 in zones A1 and A2. I saw plenty of moose sign, my partner found one drop and we found the skeleton of a bull that had dropped his rack before dying. Maybe that bull died from winter tick - who knows? The only 2 moose we saw were hanging in someones yard. I drew as an alternate in NH in 2012 but only several alternates got tags and my number never came close to getting a tag. Even though the tags have been cut way back, I will still continue to apply as I have 10 bonus points. I lost all my points in Maine a few years ago after applying for many years because I missed the deadline. That really frosted my ass and even aggravated me more when Maine changed the point system which benefits those that have been applying forever. However, I will still continue to apply in Maine. I just started applying in VT. last year and I have also started applying again in New Brunswick. My greatest fear will be that I will draw multiple states one of these years and will have to stop working and just hunt!!

From: car
01-Feb-14
Hate to hear they cut the tags but, I'll still put in.

01-Feb-14
Those numbers really aren't any worse than a lot of the western US moose odds.

From: Wilmotite
02-Feb-14
I shot a cow in NH unit G last year(rifle) and the biologist was impressed by how few ticks were on her, I hope this cold weather we have had this winter will kill more ticks than moose weakened by ticks, It took 10 years to draw that tag.

From: bigbuck
02-Feb-14
I have been in it since the start of all 3 states,got drawn in my home state of VT in 98,it was a 4 day season,saw a moose the first 10 min passed it up and that was it.I was on as sub permittee for a friend from ct CT 2 years ago and scored on a nice bull,I will continue to apply till I die,at least they don't make you by your license first to apply like some sates do

From: DonVathome
03-Feb-14
ridgerunner thanks! I knew it was something better then 1 point per year, I like systems like that.

I saw a TON of grouse on my VT hunt, it was unreal. I regretted not having a shotgun because I sure was not seeing moose! I saw far more grouse in that week then I did in 40 years in ohio.

From: BC
03-Feb-14
I'll be throwing my hat in the ring, see what happens....

From: jax2009r
03-Feb-14
13 years staight for me in ME and no tag yet

From: willliamtell
03-Feb-14
$25 to get in a pool sounds better than the typical $100+ western ante. Plus driving a load of meat across the US east-west sounds somehow easier than doing the AlCan slog (could be wrong though- - hope I find out both ways someday).

What nasties do the ticks have that are killing the moose? Do they do anything to the deer?

From: Gene
03-Feb-14
wiiiiamtell - It's not about what the ticks are carrying but the shear number of ticks on the animal. Goggle "winter ticks" and check it out.

From: Sage Buffalo
03-Feb-14
I was reading Maines site and it seems like you can buy as many bonus points as your pocket will allow?

Meaning for $55 you can buy 10 chances. You can buy as many as you can afford - sound right?

Also, anyone know how much the 10 moose auction permits usually go for?

http://www.state.me.us/IFW/licenses_permits/lotteries/moose/index.htm

From: Ace
03-Feb-14
They publish that info every year Sage. From memory, I want to say they went for over $10k

From: sticksender
03-Feb-14
When comparing New England Moose draws to western states Moose draws, one notable difference is the short season length. This is especially to be considered by the non-resident DIY hunter. Vermont 6 days, NH 9 days, Maine 6 days. All western-state Moose seasons are much longer, up to 2-1/2 months. I'll continue trying for a NE Moose tag year-after-year, although as a bowhunter I'm apprehensive about the short seasons. Vermont does give bow-season hunters one extra day, with a 7-day season ;-)

From: lawdy
03-Feb-14
I live up near the border in NH. We have had a cold winter with 3 nights below -30F. I have found moose beds with dead ticks in them. The moose I am seeing look good. I don't apply for a permit as we get plenty of road kills up here. Over 20 last summer in our town. We keep getting cold winters and our moose will come back. F+G is doing a moose survey now by chopper. I am surveying the College Grant for both deer and moose and reporting to D1.

From: relliK reeD
04-Feb-14
Sage you are correct NR can buy multiple chances but Maine residents can only buy one. The auction permits do sell for in the 10k range. There is a nuisance hunt in 9 towns in Aroostock county that I believe lasts a month. To qualify for the draw you must be a resident of the nine towns and own over 90 acres of land that is open to hunting or be a registered Maine guide. The guides receive 3 tags if drawn and I believe you can purchase those from them so you may want to do some research. I believe they give out 100 permits and a few a given to disabled veterans that apply. Call Maine IFW for details. The estimate moose population in Maine is now between 60-70K and the ticks have not hurt the herd like in NH. M me if you want more info.

From: Julius K
04-Feb-14
Sticksender,

Most all of the zones in Maine, particularly zones 1-6, have great moose populations.

I was on a hunt with my step dad this fall in a unit we had never hunted, and no time to scout due to illness in the family.

Long story short, we passed 8 bulls in 5 days, saw a dozen cows. He took one with a rifle (never intended on bowhunting).

Maine has great harvest odds. Most zones that are in the 70-85% harvest are only that low as a lot of people won't hunt but a couple days.

From: Sage Buffalo
04-Feb-14
Relik: Thanks for the great info. So I am assuming if I put in $500 or $1k my odds of drawing go way up.

Do you know if anyone has done an analysis around if you spend X your odds are X?

If not no worries I might just try and figure it out myself.

From: jax2009r
04-Feb-14
Sage, I always buy the 10 for $55. everyone I know has tried buying more some spent up to 300 but it never resulted in a tag

if you put in year after year and then turn 75 you get a tag....I am not sure how many years straight you to put for this....

My friends father gets his this year....

From: TSI
04-Feb-14
70,000 moose in maine.Thats almost triple NB moose herd.NB gets 3500 plus moose with 4-4500 tags in three days with a herd one third that sise.Seems like an over estimate but if its accurate Maine is the best odds for moose anywhere other than NFLD.

From: jax2009r
04-Feb-14
There are a ton of Moose in MN. when Deer hunting you see them all over the place ...no shortage that is for sure

04-Feb-14
TSI- Maine is your best trophy moose state/province in the northeast hands down.

From: relliK reeD
04-Feb-14
Sage I have not calculated the odds as I am a resident of Maine. The rules have changed up here over the years and will continue too. The moose hunt has ben going on for 33 years. I come from a large family of 11 kids with 5 brothers. None of us had ever drawn a tag until 2006 and since that year we have drawn 12 tags. In maine if you get drawn you now can name your subpermittee after the drawing and either can shoot the moose. We have a new head biologist and they started doing the census by air and discovered that they now have way more moose than thought. 60 to 70 K and that is up from the 40K that was the previous estimate from several years ago. The legislature sets the tag quota [that's right not IFW] and is supposed to be based on 10% of the heard and is currently at 3850 permits a year and us residents expect that they will increase the tags in the next year or so with the new census figures.Yes zones 1 thru 6 are good but also 7,8,9,11 as Ive hunted them all. I now stay away from 1 and 2 as they have gated access only and no place to buy fuel or supplys.

From: relliK reeD
04-Feb-14

relliK reeD's embedded Photo
relliK reeD's embedded Photo
Here is a picture of 1 I shot [gun hunt] in 2012 not huge $876 dressed with 47" spread

From: TSI
04-Feb-14

TSI's embedded Photo
TSI's embedded Photo
Here are a couple so so NB bulls.

From: TSI
04-Feb-14

TSI's embedded Photo
TSI's embedded Photo
47scored points i believe was around 70 inch New Brunswick bull.

From: Gene
05-Feb-14
So-So New Brunswick Bulls? - Yikes!!!!!!

From: Ace
10-Feb-14

Ace's Link
You can enter the 2014 Maine Moose lottery at the link. 4085 Permits, 10% to Non residents

From: Ace
18-Feb-14

Ace's Link
Anyone interested in applying in New Brunswick can check out the link. It costs $40.96 to enter.

You must use a guide, and the season is 3 days long, Sept 25-27, 2014.

From: phutch30
18-Feb-14
NH is proposing to go from 275 tags(2013) to 139 this year. 109 ES and 30 anterles.

From: Box
18-Feb-14
relik, I always heard that the best moose shot is when his chin hits gravel when he falls. I think yours is a classic case of that.

From: sticksender
18-Feb-14
The New England Moose draw odds (NR) are about to take another hit, especially in VT & NH. Not only from the tick kill-offs and corresponding tag cuts, but also because HF is adding VT, NH, & ME Moose draws to their state-by-state coverage for 2014.

18-Feb-14
ME unit 3 is 3200 miles from my place.

I'm in!

19-Feb-14
Just what we don't need in addition to the tick prob is HF educating the world of Foolish Hunters!

From: DonVathome
19-Feb-14
aaarrrggghhh I knew HF would pick them up, ah well, I got 27 chances in Maine this year. Put myself on with my dad as a subpermitee too.

Good luck guys! Multiple apps long term is the key. Pricey though.

From: mixed bag
19-Feb-14
You guys think hunting fool has that many members to make a difference??Maybe in Maine where you can buy any number of points.They like to cater to landowner tags and such so they would effect the late outfitter tags I guess but its nothing I could afford anyway.I'm much more concerned about the tag reduction.I dropped out of Vt. over that.I may start again for just the archery tag though.Anyone have the number of applicants for the archery tags?Was wondering what the draw odds really are there I've been buying my son points in just Maine for past 3 years when he became old enough to hunt there.Figure by the time he's my age, he will have drawn.I would die if I ever see my name in the successful list

From: DonVathome
19-Feb-14
HF DEFINITELY makes a difference.

I have watched draw odds sway dramatically by there recommendations - a new unit list in top 5 for elk means double the apps most times.

I use it to decide where not to apply most times.

From: Zim1
19-Feb-14
"The New England Moose draw odds (NR) are about to take another hit, especially in VT & NH. Not only from the tick kill-offs and corresponding tag cuts, but also because HF is adding VT, NH, & ME Moose draws to their state-by-state coverage for 2014."

This truly sucks. They most definitely will educate & broadcast to a lot of new applicants. I'll likely drop my thought of starting up again in VT and just stick to ME. At least I'll have some damage control with a 15 point lead. Anyone who thinks these guys won't make that big a difference is not familiar with draw odds in their wake.

From: lawdy
20-Feb-14
Look for Northern NH to take a big hit on moose. They just did a helicopter moose survey. One thing that is going to hurt us up here is that the feds are buying up land and they don't cut. That is what brought them here in the first place. A moose needs a lot of browse and without logging with the whips coming in, they eat themselves out of house and home. For the next 15 years the feds are cutting 950 cords per year. That is two days work for a man with a shear. Our regen rate up here is .4-.5 cord per acre per year. By 2015 they will control 79,000 acres with a final tally of 276,000 acres when they are done taking land. They could sustainably cut but they don't. Our state leaders don't have the guts to stand up to these commies, but they will when Southern NH finds their playground off limits to atvs, snowmachines, and hunting.

From: Ace
20-Feb-14
Lawdy, there are always forest fires, ice storms and tornados. If the Ash Borer, Spruce Budworm or Wooly Adelgid kills a bunch of trees, something else will grow in that space. Lots of things can change the forest.

Mother Nature has a way of reminding us who is in charge from time to time. She may not do it on our schedule, but she always wins in the end.

20-Feb-14
U-R correct Zim1...I heard there were approx 20,000 Foolish Hunter members...sure not all will apply...but it will definitely change draw odds for the worse.

From: Zim1
20-Feb-14
I have been a HF member for 10 years. When you hunt out west as much as I do, it is mandatory to track where HF steers the cattle, in order to avoid their top 5. As I have to expect most of HF members live out west, geography will deter some. The new point weighing system will deter some others who see newbies take it in the shorts there. However, the 10 packs is where I see deep pocket hardcore members making an impact.

I've monitored applicant numbers for years, and HF can flood units overnight. Reviewing their herd is mandatory in my applications monthly.

From: Mainer
21-Feb-14
Just as a FYI...last year over 40% of R with max points drew permits. I was not one of them and if I remember correctly there are about 760 of us now left. If fact I've been waiting for over 30 years and will probably be the last one standing. Oh well someone has to be "that guy". I also found it interesting that NR with max points had just over a 4% chance to draw. Not bad considering the screwy system for them. Again this year just over 4000 permits.

From: Zim1
21-Feb-14
What is max for NRs?

From: car
21-Feb-14
I received a post card from NH fish and game letting me know that the draw is now open. I've got 10 points maybe this will be the year.

From: Ace
21-Feb-14
Zim,

"Bonus Points

Each bonus point accumulated gives the individual an additional chance in the drawing. Bonus points are accumulated as shown below:

0 - 5 years = one point per year 6 - 10 years = two points per year 11 - 15 years = three points per year 16+ years = 10 points per year

Count the number of years you have applied since 1998 without winning or skipping a year

Example: If this is your 16th year of applying for a moose permit since 1998 without winning or skipping a year, you will have 40 bonus points this year.

The maximum amount of points a person could possibly have without skipping a year as of 2014 would be 40 points. "

Of course, that's 40 'extra' chances', you can buy as many chances as you want as a NR.

21-Feb-14
Just like Ace explains- 40 is this year's Maine accrued max pts for non res...not counting the extra chances they could buy...next year it will be creep to 50 pts for those same apps that don't draw this year.

From: Bou'bound
21-Feb-14
the maine moose hunt and wimbleton have a lot in common. they are both dependent on rackets. that lottery system is a joke unless you are the state treasurer.

From: Zim1
21-Feb-14
Yes I know all that. Let me rephrase. What year did Maine start selling points to nonresidents? Sounds like 1998? I have 15 now. Curious how Mainer calculated, although his was for resident odds.

From: Mainer
21-Feb-14
I don't have all the numbers but here are some of them. 52,604 people applied last year. 38,564 residents and 14,040 NR. The top year was 1994 when 94,542 people applied! Last year 1351 R had max points...585 drew (43.3%) leaving 766 of us. There was 963 NR with max points...68 drew (7.1%) leaving 895 for this year.

R can only buy one chance per year so the bonus points go a long ways to help. I DO NOT support the way the NR gets screwed over with the ability to buy unlimited chances but 7% of max point holders still drew. Not bad. I understand why someone on here wants to bash the process every time he can. But its a lottery. I "should" have drawn years ago but still wait. Its what happens when there are more applicants than permits. In the meantime I've drawn a MT sheep and moose permit making a R there frustrated. I've also drawn WY moose, CO sheep and goat, AZ elk.... apply and wait like everyone else.....way too old to blame a NR for taking my Maine moose tag....my turn is coming...maybe

From: Sage Buffalo
21-Feb-14
Anyone know how many Chances were bought last year?

If I read above correct if I spend $220 I can buy 40 chances - that's the same thing as having 40 points correct?

From: Zim1
22-Feb-14
Just submitted my NR Maine application. Said I got 40 chances this year, but it only cost me $15. Did it the old fashioned way.

From: relliK reeD
24-Feb-14
Yes Sage you are correct that chances and points are the same thing. And yes Bou its a lottery but not that pricey. You must get in to win. The other option is to find a Maine resident that gets picked and be his/hers subpermittee which is allowed after the draw. Either one is allowed to take the moose. Just a word for the wise... Money may not be allowed to exchange hands in other words you cannot buy your way in as a subpermittee with a resident or NR.

From: bigbuck
27-Feb-14
I just see where VT is cutting the number of regular season permits down to 285 but they are keeping the full 50 archery only permits.

From: mixed bag
28-Feb-14
I guess that tells you what the archery success has been.Thats the only tag I'b be interested in in Vt

From: Ace
28-Feb-14

Ace's Link
VT Stats:

2013: 23 of the 50 Archery tags were filled which was a record high. 2012: 17 of the 50. 2011: Which was the first Archery season was 16/50

During the 2013 General season there were 197 moose killed on the 362 tags issued.

VT was a great hunt for me, I highly recommend it (my story is at the link)

From: elmer@laptop
28-Feb-14
Vermont is cutting the number of moose tags by 20% this year, 2014. apparently NH is cutting even more drastically too!

From: bigbuck
01-Mar-14
Another change in Vermont is that you will have to pick the WMU before the draw, where before you could pick any open zone in the state after you drawn!I guess they want to control the number of hunters in each zone where in the past 90% of the archery hunters chose zone E1

From: Ace
03-Mar-14
Mark, are you saying that that is a Change for 2014 for the Archery Season? I hadn't heard that, and I know that the Public Hearings on the Deer and Moose seasons are being held in late March, so I figured any changes wouldn't have been decided/announced yet.

I selected Zone P for my Archery Tag, I figured everyone else is headed to E1, I'd stay away from there, and closer to home.

Not sure about previous years but It wasn't 90% of the winners in 2013, actually it was less than half, 22 of the 50 Archery Permit winners chose E1 in 2013.

From: relliK reeD
03-Mar-14

relliK reeD's embedded Photo
relliK reeD's embedded Photo
The tick problem is certainly a big issue for both Vermont and New Hampshire but not as bad for us up here in Maine.The weather is much colder in northern Maine as north of the 45th parallel we have almost as much land as the other two states combined. Add in the heavy wood cutting and the farming practices in Arrostook County including broccoli and there are a ton of moose. Just the North Maine Woods gated access is over 1 million acres and all open to hunting. Sure we have ticks but mostly in the central and southern parts of the state. I really fell sorry for our neighbor's to the south as they started getting good moose herds until recently.

03-Mar-14
THX for sharing the Maine situation! I was just going to post asking the question is there also a bad tick moose prob in Maine. THX again.

From: bigbuck
04-Mar-14
Ace,that is something new for this year, I hadn't seen the numbers for this past year for zones picked but I know E1 has been the hot spot for many years,I like you look for areas away from the crowd if I remember right you said you where the only one to pick wmu P this past season.I am surprised they are going to make you pick before the draw am curious if they are going to set it up like the regular season Draw

From: Ace
06-Mar-14
I just got this:

News Releases

2-27-2014 Fish & Wildlife Board Sets Permit Numbers for 2014 Moose Hunt

VERMONT FISH & WILDLIFE Press Release For Immediate Release: February 27, 2014 Contact: Mark Scott, director of wildlife, 802-777-4217 or [email protected] Cedric Alexander, moose project leader, 802-751-0105

Fish & Wildlife Board Sets Permit Numbers for 2014 Moose Hunt A total of 285 regular firearms moose season permits and 50 archery moose season permits will be issued for Vermont’s 22nd annual October moose hunt under a proposed regulation approved by the Vermont Fish and Wildlife Board at their February 26 monthly meeting in Montpelier.

The board voted on a proposal presented by the Vermont Fish & Wildlife Department that allocates permits in 16 of the state’s 21 Wildlife Management Units. The proposed regulation must be voted on at one more Board meeting in early April.

The 285 regular season permits proposed by the department represent a 20 percent decrease from the 355 permits issued last year. Under the proposal, hunters are expected to harvest close to 150 moose during the regular season hunt.

“We recommended a reduction in permits this year based on the biological data we have collected on Vermont’s moose and our calculated population estimates indicating moose densities are below management goals in some areas,” said biologist Cedric Alexander, Vermont’s moose project leader. “It’s the intent of this proposal to allow slow population growth in some regions while continuing to stabilize moose numbers elsewhere.”

Alexander estimates Vermont has 2,500 moose statewide with the greatest concentration in the Northeast Kingdom.

“We also want to take a conservative approach given recent regional and national trends of moose populations and health,” added Alexander. “Moose biologists from the southern tier of moose range across North America are increasingly concerned about the effects of warming temperatures on moose health. Moose can easily become stressed by both warmer weather causing them to feed less and early spring snow melt that results in higher winter tick loads the following year.”

Fifty permits are proposed for Vermont’s special “archery-only” moose season to be held October 1-7. For the first time, archery permits are not authorized on a statewide basis, but by Wildlife Management Units to better manage the harvest. Hunters are expected to take close to 15 moose during this season.

Moose hunting permit lottery applications, $10 for residents and $25 for nonresidents, will be available on Vermont Fish & Wildlife’s website (www.vtfishandwildlife.com) in mid-April. Printed applications will be at license agents in early June. Applicants are encouraged to review their Wildlife Management Unit selections closely as the boundaries of several of the units have changed.

Two lotteries will be held, one for the regular hunting season and one for the archery season. Winners of either lottery must purchase resident hunting permits for $100 or nonresident hunting permits for $350. Hunters also will have the option to bid on five moose hunting permits in an auction to be announced later.

You can review the proposed 2014 moose hunt and comment on it by going to the Fish & Wildlife website (www.vtfishandwildlife.com) and clicking on Law Enforcement and then Rules and Proposed Rules.

From: Ace
07-Mar-14

Ace's Link
Here is some recent Info about the Maine Moose herd (75,000!) and the lottery.

I found this part particularly interesting:

Moose hunting interest declining

With a hunter success rate of 72 percent for a widely desired big game animal, you would think lottery applications would be increasing. You would be wrong.

Interest in the hunt is on the decline. A total of 52,604 applications were received for moose permits in 2013, a 3 percent decline over 2012. Nonresident applicants declined most steeply, by 4 percent, dropping to 14,040. Applications from residents totaled 38,564, a 3 percent decline from the previous year.

This is, of course, a far cry from the 94,532 applications received in 1994. In that year, 74,424 residents applied for moose permits and 20,108 nonresidents.

And on another lottery issue, the department is getting close to giving every long-term unsuccessful moose lottery applicant a permit. Bill Swan told me that 1351 Maine residents had the maximum points (30) in 2013 and 585 won permits (43.3%). That left 766 Maine residents with the maximum points in 2014.

A total of 963 non-resident applicants had the maximum points and 68 won permits (7.1%). That leaves 895 non-residents with the maximum points in 2014. The lottery now favors these long-term applicants, substantially improving their chances of winning permits.

From: Zim1
08-Mar-14
They'd get a lot more apps if they canned those ridiculous NR 10 packs. Nobody likes being taken advantage of.

From: Ace
04-Apr-14

Ace's Link
Vermont's draw is now open. Deadline is June 10.

Remember that they have both an Archery and a General Season. You can apply for them both.

From: Xman59
10-May-14
ACE your numbers are correct, but its hard to compare applicants from year to year. Since there have been a few revisions in the applications, its not a straight comparison between total applications.

There is good news the NR are not the awful cheaters that some profess that they are. The actual statistics on the NR applications show that there are no large purchases of multiple 10 packs.

The recent progressive increase in odds for bonus points for long term applicants makes the 10 packs moot as feasible strategy as well.

The top tier of long term applicants will be rewarded in a progressive manner now as ACE's numbers prove.

Of course its sad for those long term applicants who jump ship and left the lottery.

From: Xman59
10-May-14
Forgot some bad news. Maine just released news that they are also dropping the total tags for this year. Same reasons as VT and NH, rough winter, ticks, and herd viability. The total tags will be in line with 2012. You have to consider that the 2013 increase was unusually large from 2012.

This was just decided with new herd numbers today.

From: Ace
10-May-14
If you want to apply in Maine, the deadline is this week.

From: Xman59
10-May-14
Ace you are correct. Its the 15th online only. The paper application deadline was over a month ago I think.

And additional item I forgot to mention. The ratio of bull tags will be higher in the total tags. It was an effort to protect more cows for herd to recovery.

From: Zim1
12-May-14
"The recent progressive increase in odds for bonus points for long term applicants makes the 10 packs moot as feasible strategy as well."

This is laughable. Almost every nonresident I know who applies throws in one ten pack. Two I know drew tags with 2-4 points plus a ten pack. It's the low point holders who buy these, which account for the greatest number of applicants as you climb the ladder. If these ten packs were such a great idea, why did residents pound the legislature until they finally scrapped the scam for them? And if the proceeds were so insignificant, why did the legislature vote to retain them for nonresidents?............Because they want the extra million dollars it generates and won't lose election votes over it. Screw the point holders who invested for 10+ years.

Also, if $55 ten point packs were such a great and equitable invention, why is Maine the only state in the USA that has this scam?

From: Ace
12-May-14
Zim, with all due respect, you have been slamming the great state of Maine a lot over their Moose draw. Apply, don't apply, but why whine so much about it?

Did you bellyache so much when Western States went to a system where you had to pay for the license up front before the draw?

Do you complain incessantly when point creep in some western states means that you are just as far away from drawing for certain animals now as when you started pointing in for the draw many years ago?

Your complaining comes across as out of proportion to the problem. Nobody likes not being able to hunt what they want, where they want when they want. But such is the reality of hunting certain animals. We all deal with it.

From: Xman59
12-May-14
Zim1 the numbers prove no wide spread purchases of 10 packs. I have posted the calculations before. Go back and review them.

Please tell me which year residents were able to buy 10 packs or unlimited 10 packs. Also show me the legislative notes where residents mounted any scam. Provide a link, it does not and never did exist for residents.

There was no vote to retain them. Once established there has never been special legislation pertaining to NR 10 packs. But please provide a link.

So you know TWO who do multiple tags. 2 out of 10,000 NR applicants proves not wide spread. Your sample of only 2 people also not big enough to say it represents the population. And you cannot even tell which tag it was of theirs that got pulled, it could of been their first tag; which means they wasted their extra chances.

Maine's lottery seems to have expanded. The herd is being managed well. Tags been increasing almost every year , except to this years reduction. The lottery money appears to be well spent.

Its a lottery, no guarantees; but the progressive changes seem to be increasing the odds for those who stay in it.

I do the math, I have adjusted my strategy for where I have confidence in.

If Maine was in deed a scam, there would be law suits or criminal trials. Maine has none. You appear to have so much conviction that its a scam, you are welcome to file any time you want.

However, there have been several criminal and civil trials for some of the western lotteries.

Maine's lottery is unique and similar. But I do not know of another lower 48 state that also as a single lottery of 3,000+ moose tags either. In New England Maine's tags exceed all the other states combined. This makes more options available in their lottery.

From: Zim1
12-May-14
Ace, It's good to bring attention to these issues. I've had several outraged Maine residents PM me thanking me for informing them of this entitlement. They are taking action contacting their legislators.

BTW - I stopped the biggest hunting tag entitlement bill in US history as far as I know of. A $20 million AZ HB2072 in 2012. Contacted KTVK in Phoenix and was granted TV interview which exposed that scam. They interviewed the legislator, who withdrew support of his own bill, and it was over the next day. They pulled their lobbyist from the statehouse. One person can make a difference. Yes, all the way from Illinois.

From: Zim1
12-May-14
http://www.georgesmithmaine.com/articles/georges-outdoor-news/may/2011/more-maine-moose-permits-less-moose-lottery-chances

OMG, big freaking deal it was 6 packs, not ten packs for residents............really? The point is that BS got booted for residents, while the ten packs were left in place for nonresidents. Your own legislators agreed this policy was unfair BS for nonresidents, but simply left it in place anyway due to the MONEY! Read!

From: Xman59
12-May-14
Zim1 My original question was show a link for"able to buy 10 packs or unlimited 10 packs".

So you agree you were wrong residents were never given 10 packs or UNLIMITED 10 packs. I knew it was only ever a single 6. The difference between 6 an unlimited 10 is huge, but history tells us Residents would never of gone for unlimited anyways.

Also you two sampled hunters were 2 out of 14,000. or 1.428571428571429e-4 . Not even close to be representative of your conclusion.

Residents had an option for a SINGLE 6 pack only; but that is also old news now. What proved out was that the majority of the residents were NOT purchases a lot of 6. The Residents now pay more for a single chance, and nobody is outraged. We use to pay $12 for 3 chances, now we pay $15 for 1. HOLY Corruption.

And for your information. The site you are quoting from George Smith.....he's a great guy..... But he also proposed 100 tags to guides and lodges. Just so you are aware you are in favor of some of the george smith's proposals that you call entitlement. Even though your sources prove I am correct on never 10.

My own legislators think its BS.......of course some do. that is why they vote. The new strategy brings in more twice as much money for a single lottery tag, which was what the residents were buying. Shock........legislators vote for a plan that doubles the prices on presidents. From 7 to 15 dollars. What happened they got rid of a lottery ticket that nobody purchased. It was not getting rid of a scam but an option few exercised.

Lets also not forget about these Legislators position. They do not give money to the department, it has to raise the majority of their budget themselves with fees and lotteries.

I could find a single legislator who said the NR 10 blocks were BS. They argued but could not devise another plan with the same revenues. So this COMMITTEE voted and approved to leave it the same. They looked at simpler and fair, but found no other plans to change to. NEVER SAID IT WAS BS FOR NONRESIDENTS.

From: Zim1
12-May-14
I know the article is by George Smith. Duhhhh. I can read the author on the link. And yes I know his support of the welfare. That is not why I posted that article. It details some of what I claim, that the residents were sick of the rediculous multiple chance bullsheet. How they pressured legislators to finally can it. I don't care if it's 3 or 6 or 10 or 20 "chances". That system is a joke and forced many good sportsmen to abandon their points!

I have more links that give more details of the legislative discussions where they admit they know it is far from fair. I've posted them before. The entire concept of peddling more than one point a year is unique to Maine and a joke to 99% of any educated sportsman. Most rediculous point cheapening policy known in the US, and a true embarrassment. For anyone to defend it is ludicrous.

From: Xman59
12-May-14
"Its a joke to 99 $ of educated sportsmen" and yet 75000 applicants each year.

Again the link I asked for was "10 or unlimited 10" because your post was about 10. You cared about 10 then.

My point is I hope educated sportsmen can distinguish between documented facts and emotional bias and make their own choices.

Peddling a single point per year.........how is that working for the western lotteries now. All those promises about max points has turned ugly, and those lotteries are looking for revisions.

And the current progressive changes......ie more than one bonus point per year for those with longevity of applying is overwhelming accepted and applauded because it increases the chances of those long time applicants.

And those who abandoned their points on bad advice from some are not kicking themselves for listening to others , with the new progressive bonus points.

Zim its simple.......if its a complete joke then show your conviction and let your points expire.

Otherwise you just trying to convince others to leave to increase your own chances by their abandonment.

From: Xman59
13-May-14
Zim Since you can not provide factual backup to your statements like residents getting "10 packs and unlimited 10 packs" or many other statements.

You have gone to name calling.....The educated sportsmen will be able to make their own decision based upon the facts.

Bonus points have been part of Maine's system since 1998, that is 16 years of your participation. And this is not point system, which you forget. This is buying lottery chances and reward of bonus points for continual participation. Just like there is no max points in Maine's system either. An educated sportsman knows the difference between the lotteries.

From: Zim1
13-May-14
"You have gone to name calling.....The educated sportsmen will be able to make their own decision based upon the facts."

Really? So what did I call you?

You are finally right about one thing........Yes many educated sportsmen did unfortunately make their own decision based on the facts, threw their hands up, dumped their points and gave up on a system that sold them short, in essence devalued their points to $5.50 each. As I've mentioned before the only reason I stayed in was I felt the revised devalued point system was such an abortion it was bound to be fixed down the road............which 3/4 years later proved to be correct. I feel bad for the screwed guys that gave in and lost their points. I feel those folks should have the option of having their points reinstated and re-entering with the new regulations.

From: Xman59
13-May-14
Zim

when you have to replace "s" with "$" to disguise a word from the automatic profanity detector in a thread. It demeans the thread to use profanity.

Zim you just said " As I've mentioned before the only reason I stayed in was I felt the revised devalued point system was such an abortion it was bound to be fixed down the road............which 3/4 years later proved to be correct."

You say the point system has been FIXED. So why are you still complaining about the point system as "Most rediculous point cheapening policy " Just TWO POSTS ABOVE it.

I am confused as to your opinion on the system. Is the point system FIXED or RIDICULOUS" You cannot hold both positions at the same time and be credible.

If guys gave up and lost their points voluntarily because they listened to bad information from others. How is that fall upon the MDIFW to reinstate? The MDIFW did revise their rules so you could miss one year and not lose all your points.

Could you tell me how you calculate the $5.50? I am not aware there was any FMV on accumulated bonus points. One cannot sell, trade, or transfer their bonus points; how did you arrive at that value?

From: Zim1
14-May-14
Xman, I never called anyone a name. Stop your lies.

Abortion of a system does not = FIXED. What up with you? You are clearly putting words in my mouth. Kindly stop it.

"If guys gave up and lost their points voluntarily because they listened to bad information from others. How is that fall upon the MDIFW to reinstate? The MDIFW did revise their rules so you could miss one year and not lose all your points."

Those sportsmen didn't dump their points due to "bad information by others". They dumped them because Maine ripped them off devaluing their points with crappy, multiple, cheap "chances". That was not bad information, it was just plain a FACT. Even your own legislators admitted it in formal sessions! You know that! Quit acting like you don't know that fact.

$55 / 10 = $5.50 call it points or chances...........whatever makes you feel good.

From: Ace
14-May-14
I'm pretty sure that by now nobody else is reading this but I'll ask that you two stop the silly back and forth.

You have both stated your position. And both made some points that you obviously consider relevant. By now everyone who has read this far knows how you guys feel, AND they have more to think about to decide how they feel and what they will decide to do going forward.

I didn't make this thread Debate Free, but you two guys are now restricted to either positive or constructive comments or take the squabble someplace else.

I started this thread to be helpful for people who want to put in for New England Moose Draws.

You guys don't have to go home but you can't stay here (and fight).

14-May-14
Get your apps in Maine...deadline is today.

From: Xman59
14-May-14
Ace ,

I true hope you consider this post to be both technical and positive and constructive.

Maine allows the purchase of multiple lottery chances .

Maine's program has NEVER allowed bonus points to be purchased and these are very distinct and critical differences.

The improper use and comingling of the terms just adds confusion and misinformation.

14-May-14
I'm reading :)

FWIW, I bought a 10 pack this year. I did it cause I assumed everyone else was too.

I'm with Zim, it's a devaluation of the points that some have been putting in for for years and it's ridiculous. If they need more money, raise the price of the app, don't cheapen people's points.

From: sticksender
14-May-14
My family members are all in for points-only this year. Too busy with loads of other hunt plans this fall. At least it's still pretty cheap to gain a point @ $15 each.

From: Xman59
14-May-14
The assumption that every non resident purchased a single 10 pack or multiple 10 packs is an incorrect assumption. The simple average of NR application is significantly lower than $55.

The change over to a progressive bonus point increased long term applicants odds greater than 28 times. This should remove any feelings of devaluation cause its purpose was to help the higher stratification of applicants.

The bonus point system and multiple choice option of chances started together. These programs had concurrent starts and one did not follow the other to cheapen it. One may FEEL it cheapens it, but factually it does not.

The unlimited option did occur subsequently, but a simple average calculation proves its not relevant or significant concern.

From: Xman59
14-May-14
sticksender

That revision which allows one to keep increasing their BP interval, when there are schedule conflicts. Basically its just telling MDIFW you are buying a single lottery chance, but not to put a raffle ticket into the barrel.

A neat accompanying change with the above, was if you forget to apply to the lottery for a year; you do not lose all the BP's. One has to miss two consecutive years to forfeit all the BP's.

From: Xman59
14-May-14
Ace,

Perhaps this will be educational to many.

system that sold them short, in essence devalued their points to $5.50 each

NR get various options to buy lottery CHANCES, which include 1 for $15 or 10 for $55. The reason each lottery chance is cheaper when selecting more than one is called a volume discount This is benefit / reward / discount for buying in volume. This is not devalued, since buying at market. Its value is what you paid for it.

This is also not selling short...........stock practice of selling a stock before you buy it, because you anticipate the price to go down. Selling stock that you do not own. Shooting a moose before you get a tag is call poaching.

what people mean is their chances are lessened by more lottery chances sold This is true but so do a lot of other issues that are out of their control.

Other reasons chances are decreased , increase in new applicants, reduction of tags by statue, reduction of tags due to herd hardship, multiple applications under family names, and a variety of others. All beyond control of a lottery applicant. And few are unknown by the applicant at the time of their chance purchases. Like most open ended lotteries you do not know how many chances will be sold, different than a limited or capped lottery

An example, this year's proposed tags were reduced by 25%......which is a very significant reduction of one's chances.

Just like one's chances have drastically increased over the years because of increase of moose tags per year. You hear lots of old timers quote 1 in 85 or "once in a lifetime". These are old and no longer valid, and statistically invalid. One year's relationship to the subsequent year was only valid if you drew a tag.

14-May-14
Agree to disagree and move on. There is no perfect system when there are more hunters than tags. I apply all over the west for years and the rules have changed in almost every state...most of the time not in the NR favor. (Last year)Only about 2.75% of NR who apply in Maine will draw a permit but last year those NR with max points had just over a 7% chance...seems the system is working...if its working good enough is an opinion. (Lifetime Maine Res still waiting for a tag for over 30 years)

From: Xman59
14-May-14
maineflatlander.......exactly no system is perfect or can remain perfect forever.

They always have to be tweaked because everything changes over decades.

And good news to you.........as a resident you are guaranteed a tag when turning 70 and having 30 points. That was 2013 law change.

From: Zim1
15-May-14
Since 10 packs are so wonderful I think more must be better so they should sell 1,000 point or chance packs (whichever makes you feel good) for fifty cents. This way even the indigent could participate.

This is a constructive post.

From: Ace
15-May-14
CAN'T HELP YOURSELF CAN YOU?

Zim, you are coming across as an attention seeker. Please take your ire elsewhere. You have made your point, again and again in fact.

From: Zim1
15-May-14
What's wrong with my idea?

From: Xman59
15-May-14
Let me apologize to the thread. I am just a born and bred mainard. Even though I have spent considerable time out of state, I am proud of my beginnings. I guess it gets the best of me at times. I guess like most who are proud of their state.

I also see Zim and I get under each other's skin. I will try to keep myself in check. It seems to only come about during the Lottery deadline, which is today at 11:59 pm.

I do hope this gets back to topic, and wish everybody the best in the lotteries.

15-May-14
Does anyone know the date for the New Brunswick outfitter draw? I know the non-res draw results were official as of 5/12.

From: petedrummond
15-May-14
I see anger zim so does everyone else

From: Bou'bound
16-May-14
How many non residents apply and how many are drawn.

From: Xman59
16-May-14
Bou'bound Not sure if you are inquiring about NB, ME, or another New England state.

If it is Maine, these are the best or most recent numbers. 2014 total tags is 3,095. NR portion is 10% or 301.

Since the NR 2014 applications deadline just occurred, those numbers are not available yet. 2013 NR applications were 14,040 for 400 tags.

NH 2014 will be 124 total tags. NR portion tags is 15% or 18.

NH in 2013 was 40 tags and 4,841 NH NR applications.

NH 2014 application deadline is May 30th. So no final numbers are available

To revise a previous statement maine's revision put it back to 2010 numbers.

The 25% reduction occurred in almost all cow tags. Of the 3,095 ME tags, 2,340 will be BOP. And 130 will be AMP. ONLY 625 Antlerless permits.

From: Zim1
16-May-14
God I was lucky to draw NH in 2012. A testament to their fair lottery system. :)

From: Ace
04-Jun-14

Ace's Link
FYI:

Vermont extends moose hunt lottery deadline POSTED: 06/03/2014 08:12:41 AM EDT

MONTPELIER (AP) - The Vermont Department of Fish and Wildlife is extending the deadline for people to enter the lottery to win moose hunting permits.

The deadline was extended a week until June 17.

Fish and Wildlife Commissioner Louis Porter says giving people more time makes sense because many may be unaware the deadline is a month earlier this year.

The department normally receives more than 12,000 moose hunting applications.

Lottery applications are $10 for residents and $25 for nonresidents. Permit winners must purchase resident hunting permits for $100 or nonresident hunting permits for $350.

Vermont is going to issue 285 moose hunting permits by lottery for the regular Oct. 18-23 moose season and 50 permits for an archery moose season Oct. 1-7.

From: Ace
14-Jun-14
The Maine Moose draw is today at 3, results posted tonight at 7:00PM. Hopefully some BowSite regulars will be on the list.

Good luck everyone.

From: Ace
14-Jun-14
Yes Pat, "points" are just extra chances in the draw. Did you apply for both the Archery and General Season?

Good luck.

From: Ace
14-Jun-14
Maine results: http://moose.informe.org/

From: Ace
14-Jun-14

Ace's Link

From: car
14-Jun-14
No tag for me again.

From: MQQSE
14-Jun-14
The Maine system is crooked and disgusting. I began in 1998 and the year they devalued my dedication and loyalty I divorced them.

I drew NH in 2000 and have max points there and VT now. I value and respect the states that don't have dirty fat filthy scumbag departments of "wildlife".

From: hunt-em-high
14-Jun-14
After many years of trying I drew a tag for WMD#7. Now the fun starts. Cant wait for October. Jon

15-Jun-14
Congrats to hunt-em-high...great unit you drew in!

No tag for me. (w/ max points)

15-Jun-14
Pat, You can draw VT this year. It is set up so that each year you don't draw you get an extra chance in the lottery. If you get lucky let me know and I can hopefully steer you in the right direction

From: hunt-em-high
15-Jun-14
Thanks ridgerunnerron. I had max points also.

From: Zim1
15-Jun-14
"The Maine system is crooked and disgusting. I began in 1998 and the year they devalued my dedication and loyalty I divorced them. I drew NH in 2000 and have max points there and VT now. I value and respect the states that don't have dirty fat filthy scumbag departments of "wildlife"."

Adam, Uh oh looks like you were in a bad mood. Sorry about that. Just understand I think the reason for their poor treatment of NR's has been greedy politicians in their legislature, as opposed to the DOW. But yes no doubt you are correct. You and many other NR's got screwed. Has to suck every year draw results come out.

You may get a kick out of what my old timer resident buddy did last night. He attended the public lottery and confronted the top dawg for the outfitter's association face to face, asking him how he felt about screwing the public out of tags for their new outfitter welfare program! Apparently he lit into him and did not let up until the scum scurried for the exit! Haha.

BTW I failed to draw.

From: Mainer
15-Jun-14
Never have I been able to figure out why people apply in a lottery with odds for NRs of about 1-50 (15000/300 permits) meaning they should draw once every 50 years and then complain they haven't drawn after 10-15 years? I should have been drawn twice as a R over the last 33 years but still didn't draw. Win some/lose some. Unless the system "guarantees" permits to the highest point holders (like CO) some will beat the odds and some will lose. Maybe next year will be my turn. Good.luck to those who did draw. R and NR alike.

15-Jun-14
I agree with you Mainer.

From: Zim1
15-Jun-14
Mainer, You are lost. MQQSE didn't even apply this year, so he is not "complaining" he didn't draw! Clearly he was venting his rightful anger at the greedy Maine legislators who played games with his and other loyal sportsmen's points until they flat out divorced the joke system, and dumped their points. Only for the crooks to come back years later and partially fix their abortion.

I was fortunate to stay in the game & retain my points, but for those folks who dropped out previously I definitely think they should have the opportunity to get their devalued points back.

In case you somehow think I was "complaining" about not being drawn, you would be lost again. Nothing in my post stated that. I in fact, did not want to draw. My freezer still has plenty of my New Hampshire bull in there. For my unit choices I only bothered to list the best 5 units and left the rest blank. I'm going elk hunting out west this year.

Good luck to everyone on your hunts.

From: Zim1
15-Jun-14
Maine should make things right by: 1. Getting rid of their stupid NR 10 chance packs. 2. Restoring points to all sportsman who dumped them in the past, if they even want them back! 3. Repealing outfitter welfare legislation. 4. Publicly apologizing for their past & current abuse of loyal & ethical sportsmen & their dollars. 5. Demanding their legislators to be honest, responsible, ethical & mature adults with integrity from hereafter.

Jest sayin.........

From: Mainer
15-Jun-14
Never have I been able to figure out why people apply in a lottery with odds for NRs of about 1-50 (15000/300 permits) meaning they should draw once every 50 years and then complain they haven't drawn after 10-15 years? I should have been drawn twice as a R over the last 33 years but still didn't draw. Win some/lose some. Unless the system "guarantees" permits to the highest point holders (like CO) some will beat the odds and some will lose. Maybe next year will be my turn. Good.luck to those who did draw. R and NR alike.

From: MQQSE
15-Jun-14
I quit applying years ago.

For those watching this thread who have not actually experienced it, I want you to imagine applying every year for ten years with the hope of slightly increasing your odds through persistence. Then, due to greed on the part of the governing body, in a mere moment, your ten years of patience are erased with the stroke of a pen.

I actually voted with my dollar and decided to end the funding of something I disagree with. I love drawing long shot tags and don't expect any advantage over anyone else. I feel as though 200-1 odds are just that, and if over time I can increase them to 120-1, I don't think $$ should be able to take that away.

From: MQQSE
15-Jun-14
By the way, I drew NH in 2000 and was a sub permittee in NH in 2001. I was a Sub in ME in 2002 and was involved with one of the biggest bulls harvested in the state. Also, my wife drew VT in 2008. I don't feel I am owed anything, I just hate to see people sit on their hands and get screwed the way they currently are.

From: MQQSE
16-Jun-14
And, I just drew Montana moose! That's what I get for being critical of Maine. Karma!!

From: Ace
16-Jun-14
The negativity I see on every Maine/ New England Moose thread is pathetic.

Enter or don't enter, but quit whining like a bunch of bitches! My god, you guys must be the people they are talking about in Kelly's: 'Worst Hunting Partner Ever' thread. Don't you ever get tired of yourself?

Congrats on your Montana tag MQQSE, I hope that it makes you a bit more grateful, and a bit less bitter.

This thread has now officially become a No Bitch Zone. Please don't try my patience on that.

From: Zim1
16-Jun-14
You mean like the whining the residents did when they stormed the legislature to get rid of resident multi-chance packs last year?!

Or the whining the outfitters did to the legislature the last 10 years for outfitter welfare tags?

Go figure.

From: MQQSE
16-Jun-14
I'm not bitter at all, and that has nothing to do with my Montana draw today.

I seriously just wish for everyone's sake, that the rules didn't change so frequently. Not just in Maine for that matter. I know it is pretty much inevitable for the most part, but I don't like when the average guy loses out to those who can pay more money to increase their odds after the game has started.

It truly doesn't apply to me as I don't have a desire to hunt in Maine, although I did when I was younger (and did with a friend). I am simply making a point about what happened with the system.

Good luck to everyone who drew in Maine as well as the rest of the draws and in your OTC hunts as well. Have a good summer too!

From: hurricane
17-Jun-14
Thirty some-odd years of applying and my best friend finally got drawn. Bull permit in District 2, a good zone as many of you know. Can't wait to get scouting!

From: Ace
17-Jun-14
You buy one chance, if you have applied for previous permits, the state GIVES you additional chances. You can (as a NR) buy more chances, or not.

Has anyone actually bothered to figure out the odds? Adding a "10 pack" to your 1, 5 or 20 chances increases your odds just a tiny bit. And very few people buy a huge number of chances.

Here is my suggestion for anyone who doesn't like the way Maine handles their Moose Permit Lottery:

DON'T APPLY. Simple, and effective!

I have been applying since the beginning, do I like the fact that I have never drawn a tag? No I do not, but I am aware of the fact that any time I wish I can opt out and take my hard earned money elsewhere.

I think the problem has been caused by people convincing themselves that if they apply every year they will eventually draw. Actually if you apply every year you MAY eventually draw. Like it or not, that's how it works. If you want to purchase a tag, buy one in a state or province where they have them available for purchase without a lottery. If you want a chance to DRAW a tag, buy a chance, and hope (but don't expect) that you draw.

Have you bothered to look up Your chances of drawing a Moose Permit in a Western state? What about in New Brunswick? VT and NH have a draw as well.

Apply where you want, and stop complaining, it's not productive and annoys people.

And Zim, the whining I was referring to was mostly yours, but then you knew that. You have decided that you are the guy who has the answers, and that they need to do it your way in Maine. I haven't seen a thread on Maine Moose where you didn't bash the system. It gets old And you always have to get the last word. Maybe you should start your own thread, you can call it: "How to fix all the draws"

From: Zim1
17-Jun-14

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