Moose VS snowmobiler
Moose
This is going to ruffle some feathers. Not a good situation at all.
http://www.outdoorhub.com/news/video-snowmobiler-shoots-moose-glock/
Im split on this....he let it attack twice without pulling a gun....the third time was enough....it sucks but seriously in the moment and add adrenaline I could see myself doing that. The comments are ruthless on that page....I watched it 4 times to make sure I was not rushing to my decision. He should have chilled for 5 minutes and let it pass or even just watch it. I would have loved to see a moose in the wild just hanging around. But if that thing charged me over and over I would have done the same thing probably. Maybe not....I was not there, easy to sit on our couches and pass judgement. I do know this a human is more valuable than an animal.
The Moose was most likely living on that trail, chances are he would have been there a long time waiting for it to leave, the other thing I noticed, there was no room for him to get past the moose on either side, likely would have gotten stuck and still attacked. He probably should have given it more time but once he was there and it kept attacking, there was nothing left to do
Pretty damn good shooting I'd say.
when the guy started to bark like a dog and roared up to the moose he got a negative reaction, and in my opinion the guy prompted the whole ordeal, It could have been avoided, a few shots fired into the air at first should have worked,,
But how fast will it go on a narrow trail, with another sled behind you in reverse?? I think he did nearly everything possible except to pop a couple shots off in the air, which does limit what's left if you really need them...the moose turned away a couple times, but chose to come back to fight. I would have done the same thing. Unfortunate for the moose.
Darn stupid in my opinion. Moose are large animals and the whole thing could have been prevented. Just give the moose some room or do like someone else said and fire a round ahead of time to scare the thing off! Bob.
Sad the moose had to die, but that guy didn't have much choice, he's lucky he was hurt when he got stomped the first time. Don't know if the first shot was a warning shot or not,maybe a few in front of the moose may have worked,but when a big animal is coming at you I think I would have done the same. Was that a glock 10 mm?
He was totally in the wrong. He has a snowmobile that is made to go wherever. You can see in the first scene that someone else had gone off the trail to the left, likely because the moose was there. Go around it and warn others that it is there. He is damn lucky that moose didn't kill his ass with him running up to it like that. That situation was totally avoidable and unfortunate.
Narrow trail with deep snow either side. Moose is not intimidated by the snowmobile and the rider was standing up, increasing the perceived profile of the machine/rider combo. He refrained from shooting the first time it attacked. Second time the moose got what it had coming.
It's like the argument that you mustn't shoot the crazed dope-head who attacks you with a penknife and you have a 45. You must attempt to negotiate and meet his threat only with a similar threat. Maybe run around and see if you can buy him a bunch of flowers because he is "misunderstood".
No way. Fair warning given, one attack endured, Moose coming around for another go = dead moose.
Maybe we think different in Africa. JCHB
He stops, tries to scare off the moose. The moose attacks and then appears to be leaving so I'm guessing he moves forward a bit hoping to press the moose that appears to be choosing "flight" instead of "fight". The moose doesn't like it and comes back. Moose loses.
Likely avoidable with a little more knowledge of moose, but after being attacked once I'm not surprised he used the option he had to stop a second attack. Most folks simply aren't around moose enough to know much about them. Your average person expects wild animals to run away because thats what they normally see them do.
Once the moose came back for round #2, I wouldn't hesitate to defend myself, regardless of what lead up to round #2 happening.
I can't judge because I was not there. I do wonder what happened after the shots were fired. Did he call a CO? If you can't call in and justify your actions chances you knew you were in the wrong.
Mountain sheep - Yeah, I'd like to know what caliber of Glock, it did a good job.
He should have backed off. He had ample opportunity. He continued to approach when the critter is behaving aggressively? He empties the magazine into and around the moose and leaves it wounded?
Didn't look "wounded" to me. Looked pretty well dead or about to be dead soon.
Makes a guy wonder. I've been seeing lots of moose while out enjoying the trails this winter, even have them in our yard each day. I keep my distance but if one attacked me and I had a way to deal with it, pretty sure it'd end up similar to this. A human life is way more important than an animal, especially an animal that is harming a human.
Looks as though he provoked it a bit and then had to deal with the situation he caused.
Where I hunt deer primarily has a lot of moose. Moose are very aggressive critters. BB and I have been charged together multiple times. I could see in the video that the first time the moose came at him, the ears were pinned back. That should have been a very good indicator. But I'm not going to fault the guy. I've had this happen so many time and honestly, it gets tiresome.
I would guess the DNR is happy this guy filmed it for them to review, why on earth anyone would post a video that could hurt them in the long run is beyond me.
Totally avoidable. Here is why. This guy never thought to look at a way around the moose. As primitive said above, that sled could have nagivated through the woods for 50 or so yards to get to that open area where the video stops. This hammer was simply being an arrogant human who claimed the trail the moose was using. He obviously didn't take 30 seconds to connect ANY dots and reason potential outcomes.
If he didn't have that handgun, stupidity would have been quite painful. I'm sure he went home with a few "stupid" bruises after those straight punches from the moose connected.
All that said, it is likely that this wasn't the moose' first aggressive encounter. He may have been put down by a CO by winters end if this dummy didn't do the deed in self defense.
Good video. Would like to hear the end story.
Here's a thought... Maybe the guy had no clue what was going on, not everyone out in the woods sledding or hiking has experience with moose and their behaviors etc...
To me, it's obvious he had no clue, he kept driving towards it!
Looks like a situation that could have easily been avoided but since it wasn't and the moose actually attacked the guy it's understandable that he defended himself. My biggest issue with it is that he apparently just drove off and never reported it. (Read that somewhere else).
He had the right to defend himself if he felt he was in danger which it appeared that he was. My only concern is did the possession of the gun make him feel "braver" and cause him not to retreat when it was prudent to?
I love my guns and appreciate my right to carry them. It also comes with a responsibility to think before acting. Hard to judge until you're in the same situation.
Lets also keep in mind that he had his young son riding behind him who he had to worry about also.
If he gets knocked unconscious by the moose that would leave his son in a defenseless position.
When he first saw the moose and stopped there was a trail to his left that had a light dusting over it. At that time he could have taken it. Once he committed to keep going there is no way you’re taking a snowmobile off a hard packed trail into and through the woods. It’s very risky and that’s a good way to get seriously hurt, it also leaves you vulnerable of a a side attack from the moose. The first shot was a warning shot, the moose kept coming. IMO he did what he had to do. Im thinking if it were my kid or wife behind me the moose dies just as it did when it keeps coming.
GBA
Couldv'e been avoided.....
Closeing the distance on a moose would be an aggressive posture in the eyes of the moose.Appears another sled was aproaching and i would guess the moose felt trapped.The moose obviosly was useing the trail as relief from deep snow.The guy no question pushed the moose and should have given it more time and space.The moose behaved as would be expected.Shots infront or in the air could have stopped the moose.Biggest instigator was continueing to approach the moose,when it clearly was confused and not moveing.
He should be fined! He aggravated the moose and chose to shoot it? IDIOT! Seriously, Shoot it? He could have fired a couple of rounds near the moose and it may have moved on.
Nice shootin...I like to kill stuff, what can I say. Mike
The first shot hit the moose.Too bad but lesten learned give them space.Cant force a moose to move.
On the flip side I was totally impressed by the stopping power of his sidearm...I wish here in BC (or anywhere in Canada) we could pack a handgun legally.
This looser should be fined, have his sled taken away, and be locked up. Then the feds should get involved and search his house and put his family away also;)
I know a lot of guys that snowmobile. Not one of them would know the first thing about what to do if they ran into a moose. I'm guessing this kind of thing happens a lot during hard winters with a lot of snow. Does the DNR offer any educational materials or courses on what to do if you encounter a moose on a trail?
Brotsky i know here the goverment often puts out alerts for moose on the trails and does try and educate riders on what to do.Cant speak for that area.I would assume many areas do though offer some kind of heads up for wildlife on the trails.This situation should have been handled differently for sure,dont believe there is a charge there but the rider did press the moose,reveing the engine and barking while closeing the distance seemed abit agressive by the sled rider but also seems he screwed up,and then it was too late to back out,he could have fire shots well back first but once he was kicked at im sure he wasnt really thinking clear anymore and was scared to death.No charge im sure,but i guarantee he will never push a moose again.Hope the meat was used.
Back straps over an open fire, sounds good to me. I assume he reported it to the DNR and they thought it was justified.
Moose are not endangered as a species. If there's even slim chance of injury to the guy and/or his boy in that scenario...I go with dropping the moose, and asking questions later. You can't determine the guy's motivations or attitude from that video alone. That's the job of whatever wildlife officer investigated it.
Hope someone got a nice pile of steaks out of the deal, looks like perfect weather for butchering.
Florida Mike, wow, just wow,
I would think that numerous game violations occured, such as shooting game out of season, no permit or license, etc...
I would have handled it differently, and the fact that it was filmed and blasted all over the internet almost makes it seem that it was somewhat pre-meditated..
I really have a hard time making a decision whether this was right or wrong. Mainly because I wasn't in this situation. I truly doubt this video shows the way that guy really felt. Easy for a lot of people to sit behind the keyboard and say this and that.
Regardless of why,here you would be charged,illegal here to have a weapon in the resort of wildlife out of season.Have no idea what the laws there are.The fact he did have a weapon suggests he did expect a possible encounter with something or someone.Is there any further facts to this case beyond the short write up.Was he aware the moose was in the trail prior?Was it reported?
Once the Moose attacked once and turned for another round, this guy was justified. Regardless of whether he could have avoided the situation or not. No doubt he thought if he pressed the moose a little it would move off the trail and let him pass, that's not an unreasonable mind set, especially if you aren't familiar with Moose behavior. I don't believe there is a law that states he has to understand Moose behavior. I'ts an unfortunate ending but he was justified. At the end of the day, the Moose chose to attack.
Thumbs down to the snowmobiler.
Dave (TSI), We are talking about the United States. Canada is definitely different. The Second Amendment (Amendment II) to the United States Constitution protects the right of individuals to keep and bear arms. I know Canada is different. On my way to hunt with Taz last year. I got stopped at the border and was read the riot act for having a concealed weapons permit. LOL!! They couldn't understand why I had one. I said because I can.
At the point where he actually fired, I think he did the right thing. The moose had already attacked and was obviously on it's way back for more.
But if I put my "Captain Hindsight" cape on... at the beginning of the clip the moose was a good distance away and was not advancing. The rider approached the moose and I think that was a mistake. Had he just stayed where he was, or even veered off the trail where you could see that another snowmobile had done so prior, maybe the whole thing could have been avoided. We'll never know.
But what the hell... MOOSE BURGERS FOR DINNER!!
bowhunt1 i know the laws are much different i just spoke for here,if a guy shot a moose here in winter its a no brainer he wasnt to have had a weapon.Good thing these things are rare.Moose are encountered here on the trails all the time ive personally had to let 30-40 walk off in one day,and yes if you push them there is always one or two that will stand and fight.I usually turned off the machine and just let them wonder off at their leisure without any problem,but one things for sure they didnt want off the trail,the hard pack seemed to be a comfort to them.there seems to be a distance between moose that as long as you dont get within it your not an issue for them,i found 100ft min back was no problem anything under that dont appear as a threat or make sudden moves they will instantly drop the ears and go deffensive.
Something doesnt sit right with me with this, maybe it is just the video. I have no desire to watch it another time. My first thought was that he could have avoided it by staying back and not moving closer. That being said, I wasnt there in the moment so it is easy to comment in hindsight. I hope the moose didnt go to waste.
Ignorance is not an excuse. His mistake was getting closer to film the event. He could have easily drove around the animal when he was further out.
However, I believe he was justified to shoot it in the end as it had already attacked him and most likely would have again.
He should be cited for something, but not to the full extent of a malicious poaching-type charge. Sad to watch.
I've had as many as 6 bull moose wintering around my house and you just give em space and there's no problem. He seemed to not have a clue how to handle the situation. One less we get to chase with a bow in the fall on even terms. Foolish if you ask me.
My driveway recently....didn't have to shoot any just let move from a distance.
If any good comes from the video im sure alot of guys now know that moose have acomfort zone and giveing them space they wont be an issue.Moose dont seek out a fight but they dont back down either its the only way they survive predation.
Would have done the same thing in that situation,anyone that says different is just being ridicules,it's an animal putting a human life at risk
Jack Harris makes a good point.
Go Pro cameras have a super wide angle lens so what looks like 50 yds is half that...he roosted right up to what I would guess 20 yds or closer from the moose. Revving and yelling at a stressed, wintering moose at that range will get you pummeled every time. Its not a black bear in the summer. He acted like a fool and is lucky
He made a bad decision pushing too close to it but to say he could have found another way around is stupid when you were not there and don't know the area. It's also stupid to think that this was premeditated since he was Israeli carrying.
He should have avoided the moose.. that being said he did the right thing protecting his son..
He's on what looks like a newer Ski Doo...they ALL come with reverse. 99% chance all the sleds there had reverse and everyone knew how to use it.
In all seriousness the guy on the sled is in the wrong plain and simple. He pushed in too close, what the hell did he expect was going to happen? The way he handled the gun shows he knows how to keep his head. IMO he intentionally provoked the moose.
My opinion, he did VERY THING wrong when he encountered this moose.
1. did not back off
2. did not take another trail just to his left side
3. revved his engine louder
4. made yelping sounds like a dog/ coyote, or wolf
5. advanced when the moose became agitated.
6. presumed the moose would just run away and give him the right of way.
7. carried a sidearm which may have given him the "power" to confront anything in his path.
8. did not use his God- given brain!
9. the moose should have kicked him in the ass.--well maybe she did.
My best, Paul
That is EVERY THING wrong......
primitve- "I was totally impressed by the stopping power of his sidearm."
Yeah, I was too and why I asked if anyone knew the caliber, but no response yet.
Block was impressive but he could have avoided it. My sled has reverse as we'll.....unfortunate
I am with Paul@thefort... Classic case of road rage...
Just a thought.
Lets replace the moose with another snowmobiler meeting on the same trail and for a few seconds, both felt they had and right of way.
Wonder if the outcome would be the same or different?
My best, Paul
Just a thought.
Lets replace the moose with another snowmobiler meeting on the same trail and for a few seconds, both felt they had and right of way.
Wonder if the outcome would be the same or different?
My best, Paul
Paul your comparing "apples to oranges", a human life is not on the same level as an animal. I'm sure you didn't mean to compare the two.
Guys I think maybe some are making a big fuss out of something that's just not a big fuss...but who knows, maybe I'm just not "sensitive" enough. Mike
It could have been, the same if one decided to attack the other.
Over and above that you can't compare as you have the ability to communicate intentions between humans.
Im not sure what was on this guys mind and or how much dealings he has had with wild animals. Given that the moose did try and take him out I'm sure he was rattled to say the least. (Unless he did know what he was doing by provoking the attack, getting it on video and posting it on the net.)
Still, others may learn from this and not make the same mistake. If it had been in a Park and the rider told the Park Officials that the moose had charged and attack, then showed them the video then the Rangers may have done the same thing: Legally. Not sure what they would have done. Depends on the amount of contact with people this moose may have.
found this info - but still doesn't specify state...
MOOSE PICKED THE WRONG GUY TO ATTACK: A man, age 51 with a life threatening heart condition (dilated cardiomyopathy), while snowmobiling out west with his son, comes upon a moose in the wild. Concerned that an animal attack might be about to happen, the site seeing experience goes bad when the moose, not wanting to be on camera, decides to charge. Coming over the snowmobile, the 1,000 pound bull attacks, kicking the Dad in the chest; the moose's intentions were clear. This was one angry animal attack. With only a hand gun to defend himself and his son, the Father fires a warning shot only to quickly fire 4 more to defer a 2nd attack..
This fires me up.....I put a serious effort into coexisting with a really cool animal and this Jack@$$ rides up, antagonizes it then dumps it like a gangster. I ride sleds also but have never carried one of my pistols cuz there's no need. My 11 yr old daughter takes a Polaris ranger to feed horses every morning, has encountered bulls on the road at least a dozen times and has never had an issue. She knows how to act around wildlife.
The guy is an a**hole plain and simple.
I don't think the guy knew what to do at the start, the barking like a dog thing was not a positive move, I do think that if he would have known this is not a good situation in the first place he probably would have tried to avoid it. I can't say I would have known what to do I'd guess most people wouldn't,
The guy tried to scare off the moose, then fired a warning shot and still the moose came at him, no other choice but to drop it. The snow was to deep for the guy to go around, wouldn't have been able to get through. Is it unfortunate that the moose died, yes it is. The one thing he might have tried was to fire a few warning shots when the noses was walking away. Would be nice to know if the meat was used, I still want o know what caliber? I'm thinking 10 mm, might have to get a glock.
Maybe the guy wasn't an expert on moose behavior You guys are quick to judge when you don't know all the details. I would have done the same thing but I would have shot it on the second charge.
The point I was trying to make using another snowmobiler, is that both would have yielded and found a way to avoid each other.
I believe the guy pushed too hard, thus the confrontation.
Bunch of heroes on here. Man was attacked by moose, when moose came to attack him again, he shot it.
Did he make mistakes? Yup. Did he deserve to die or be injured for them? Nope!
Paul, your "if it was a person" scenario proves the same thing. Guys pull up to a light and yell at each other. Big guy beats on little guy and walks off but then comes to attack him again. Little guy shoots big guy. SELF DEFENSE!
As a kid we used to sneak up on bears and throw rocks at them. I NEVER had a fear of bears. One day that all changed when a bear tried to attack me when I was just sitting there watching it from my quad. This bear just starts coming, no warning, no bluffing. I had been there for several minutes quietly watching. That day taught me that not all bears are scared of us and if a bear wants to attack it doesn't state its intentions first.
For all you heroes out there, what if you were the moose and he was a cop. How many times could you attack the officer before he would shoot you!?
Shane, that was the same bear you threw rocks at when you were a kid.
If you think elephants have a good memory, think twice when harassing a bear. They will remember you.
:) Paul
I think there are lessons to be learned, I have no personal experience with moose in the wild having lived in KS, however I dont think it takes a rocket scientist to back off and give a 1000 lb plus (thats how much they can weight right?) animal some room.
You're invading their space so treat them with respect.
IMO the guy on the snowmobile was the one acting all cocky and aggressive and brought on the charge himself. If he would have backed off and not kept driving at it Id guess it all could have been avoided. Guy probably has zero patience and is from the east coast.
Hind sight is 20/20.
Obviously hitting the gas trying to push it as it retreated was a mistake, but it's hard to do exactly the right thing all the time. It's much easier to look back and say, "I should have done this or not done that."
Fact is, the guy took one in the chest from a large animal.
I don't blame him for shooting it after it made good on its mock charge.
The guys mistake was coming to close thinking he could scare it off the trail. Obviously he has no experience with moose or possibly wild animals all together. He did not make a mistake by shooting it though, he was protecting his own life and more importantly (IMO) his sons. Pay a fine, stay alive and learn a valuable lesson.
Nesser, not everybody has the same education on animals. I would say that we could be a little bias on this site since most of our passions are directly tied to them.
Its a moose for god sake.
All you guys who are placing greater value on the moose than the human, have you ever seen the video of the moose killing the guy at the UAA library in Anchorage?
Its a freaking moose that deserved to die.
The snowmobiler is a jack-wagon!
What's the old saying..."mess with the bull..you get the horns!"
The Almighty gave us a brain for a reason, some people just refuse to use them.
Paul:
I agree with your list of stuff he did wrong except #7.
"My 11 yr old daughter takes a Polaris ranger to feed horses every morning, has encountered bulls on the road at least a dozen times and has never had an issue."
Exactly. 99 times out of 100 no moose is going to attack someone on a four wheeler. Yeah maybe he could have done something different, but I don't understand why people think he "provoked" it. Do you honestly think he could have reversed into the deep side snow, turned around taking his eyes off the moose before it ran him down? I'm not saying it would have run him down but why would he think about turning around when 99% of the time in that situation you would never have to. What is usually the immediate reaction of animals, including moose, when they see a human? They run! Him making noises is trying to scare it off.
I don't see anything wrong with him going closer, he only did after it turned away. When an animal turns away that usually means it going to run away from whatever it turned away from. Continuing to put pressure on it is almost always just going to make it run away a little faster.
We can all sit here and say what he should have done, but we didn't just take a few jabs to the chest from a moose. He obviously didn't intend to kill this moose the moment he saw it, let alone "pre-meditated," calling it pre-meditated is insane. Leave him alone.
his biggest mistake was making the video public for all to critique...worst of all for his local DNR to do so as well.
You guys that say he couldn't go around because of the deep snow, you realize he is on a snowmobile right?
What we are seeing is a small part of a longer video. There are moose tracks in the trail. How long has he been pushing this animal. Did he push to the point that it finally stood and fought ?
snowmobiles get bogged down in deep snow all the time a harder packed snow not so much, going off the trail he would have made it only a few feet b4 getting bogged down, the moose and the snowmobile had 2 things in common at that point and that is the hard packed trail was where they wanted to be.
Keep the front of the sled up and it will go thru any amount of snow. Sleds getting stuck depend on the amount of powder and letting the front end sink. We have no idea how much powder is there by looking at the video. I have only been riding sleds for 30+ years. If I got stuck it was all on me. So for those that say he couldn't go around I am not buying it. I am not condemning him for shooting the moose but I do feel he didn't avoid the confrontation the best way.
In deep snow the track will dig you a grave,
Since he is riding on a trail, I assume that it's not a powder machine.
Tough call, but we all get ourselves in dumb situations and sometimes do even dumber things to extract ourselves. It's only afterwards that we think of all the right moves.
My wife and I got chased by a cow moose one evening on a walk. I now know that she can outrun me. Last year a lady here got accosted by a moose in a school yard. Her dog paid with it's life.
We have quite a few moose/man encounters with the moose always winning the initial skirmish.
The heat of combat is seldom the time for cool thought.
"Keep the front of the sled up and it will go thru any amount of snow. Sleds getting stuck depend on the amount of powder and letting the front end sink."
Your snow must be different from my snow.
For those defending this douchebag can you not see that he pushed in on the animal? He had a camera going and a gun very handy. What's to say this didn't go down exactly the way he wanted it to.
I'm done ranting but just want to clarify the snowmobile is a mountain sled as the handlebar loop is there for sidehilling in the mountains. It probably had a 144" or 151" track with a 2" lug or paddle. It would not have had the slightest issue in reverse on a packed trail. This moose was shorter fused than most probably had been dealing with sleds before this guy came along. I don't fault anyone for trying to save their arse when confronted with bodily harm but this deal had a little too much haste for my taste.
Here is my question.....Since the event was filmed..... one way or another, the authorities have seen it by now. What was the legal outcome? Everything else is conjecture and differing opinions....
How did the authorities treat this incident?
Rutnut: I quad with a camera all the time so my friends and family can watch later. As a moose hunter I would love to know how a fella could plan the arrival of a moose on the trail that i'm on while driving a LOUD machine and the bull doesn't run away but comes towards me. If this was his 'plan all along' he is a genius. Either that or you should consider thinking before calling him a douche.
He did just about everything wrong but he isn't a hunter, he is a snowmobiler. I've been in on at least 40-50 moose kills and I have never seen a moose go this bonkers in the winter. Remember the rut happens in Oct/Sept so this is quite odd for his species.
This past fall I chased 5 polar bears off while on a quad and I would feel 100 times safer doing that to a moose than a polar bear!
Lastly, its a moose not the golden goose! He made mistakes and because of them he had to shoot a moose or get trampled again. The next hoof strike could have killed him.
I've been sledding for a few years myself and I know that if he gunned his sled and veered off the trail he prolly coulda made it back to the trail. Once he closed the gap and the moose came at him tho, it was no longer an option.
Who attacked who? He closed the gap with a moose trying to scare it away, the moose closed the gap and attacked him. When it began its second attack, he shot it.
I can't believe so many guys can crucify him for it! As a general rule non-hunters and even some hunters are dumb as rocks concerning wildlife.
Nesser, my sled has all of those things and its NOT a mountain sled BUT it'll go anywhere I want so long as I don't let off the gas...
He did what he felt he had to do. Human life versus ANIMAL life, human life trumps it every single time.
"Here is my question.....Since the event was filmed..... one way or another, the authorities have seen it by now. What was the legal outcome? Everything else is conjecture and differing opinions.... How did the authorities treat this incident? "
No charges were given.
As it should be.
Iv watched this video a few times he was charged and kicked by it. Do we no where this video came from? No we do not. Was this just a man and his son who wanted a nice day out to ride there snow mobiles that maybe have no idea how a moose would react? And the people who are like oh its on camera look up some facts abut go pros and how popular they are...he was scared he was attacked by and animal 800 pounds more then him every one doesnt love the out doors or no how to deal with something like that.
5575,
Thanks for the follow-up. If the authorities choose not to file any charges, that pretty much sums up things for me.
If only a slap on the hand, well maybe he could serve community service such as, cleaning up the moose poop on the snowmobile trails in the area. :)
Ok. Ignorance is never a reason. Something you will hear from most authorities.
Should he be prosecuted like a poacher? No. Should he be fined? Yes.
That was the dumbest thing I have ever seen. He absolutely caused that situation. Pure impatience.
I fished in a lot of Moose areas. At no point would I have ever thought to see how close I could get to one.
He should have backed up or turned around. If you can't do that on a snowmobile then you should have a rider with you who knows how.
Again, ignorance isn't an excuse. If you are not smart enough to know not to approach a moose then you deserve to be fined.
At least now I know I'm not the only one with a Glock on my hip when I go out for a peaceful day in the outdoors!
Seriously, I can't be the only one that thinks its a little odd that the guy has a sidearm while snowmobiling.
Is that a Glock in your parka or are you just happy to see me?
What Bob said.
It's a moose. Not a forest god. Guy might not have a degree in moose behavior, thought it would move off. Most animals would. He was wrong. It attacked. Twice. He killed it.
WRT if he could have gone around, I don't know. The moose sure didn't want to deal with the deep stuff. You hit a hole or ditch you're screwed, I certainly don't know the place. And the moose may have still attacked. Nobody knows.
WRT packin' seems he made the right call there too. He was pretty good with it under pressure, he could have been an LEO himself, I don't know. Those 10mm have some pop to them if that's what he used. But accuracy under pressure was the key.
All I know is he was armed. He was attacked. He killed it. He did what he could, he did the right thing in protecting himself and family. And.... it's a moose for cryin' out loud. Reading some of the comments you'd think the moose was wearing a hoodie...
Much rather have a dead moose than even an injured human.
moosenelson, it wouldn't have been that hard to have seen the moose BEFORE he turned the camera on, maybe even buzzed it a few times. Might explain it's super agitated state. I am all for concealed carry, but this guy's name should be quick draw. Hell I don't even carry when I run bear baits. But I guess some of us probably have more common sense when dealing with wild animals. As far as the Go Pro, very familiar with them. Most of us don't have it recording during our whole ride/hunt/event...
From the time he first stopped at a distance to the time he decided to approach the moose, all of 14 seconds elapsed.
Here's what I don't get - if that was Africa and a lion or elephant - would he have done the same thing?
Nope. He would have turned around as fast as he could.
That's my problem with this. It wasn't necessary.
But you also notice the camera was recording the whole close encounter. So how long before the camera was on did he know the moose was there?
My camera lasts about 3hrs. I keep it on for the whole ride in case I see something cool, do something interesting or whatever. If I could carry, I would too. Its 3lbs of insurance in case I get lost, attacked or whatever.
I had a bull pop out of the bush at 5yds while grouse hunting with a .22. He was in full rut and didn't didn't care about me at all. He just kept following his nose. I didn't yell or clap cuz I wanted to watch him. I followed him for a good 50 yds down the road till he made a right turn into a swamp. It never occurred to me to be scared cuz I was 14/15yrs old and smart as a turnip!
Wild animals tend to do wild things.
The moose was not going to give up his easy walking trail. He or she claimed it as theirs, the rider tried to spook it away and the moose wasn't having any of it. When the moose retreated after the first attack it almost disappeared in the deep snow, the rider wasn't going anywhere in that,and don't blame him. Yelling and a warning shot didn't detour the animal, so he got glocked. Unfortunate yes, but I think anyone in that position would have glocked it too. Hopefully the meat was taken, if not the wolves I'm sure had a good meal.
Africa, Lion???????? That is a bad comparison.
I don't blame the guy for what he did AFTER he pushed in on the animal. At that point it was already too late, and he handled that part well.
Busta, lots of guys don't leave the house without a side arm.
Seems like when the bull turned away, he approached it hoping to get some decent video, thinking it would just run off like a normal moose.
Obviously, that was not a "normal" moose!
Any combination of things could have happened differently. Reverse, different path around, or even this guy or his kid getting killed.
The alternatives aren't always rosey, and I would not focus only on how the moose might have been saved. There is a real chance the snowmobiler might have faired far worse.
He didn't shoot it for fun, or just because it was on the trail. He didn't even shoot it after a charge. He only shot it after he took a couple hooves to the chest, and for me that would be enough. Deadly force - to prevent death or serious bodily harm.
this moose attack had a better outcome for the moose. The man was armed, the moose attacked, the man waited in cover and the moose got to walk away. just because an animal stands his ground, doesn't mean it has to die. the guys in the video speak French, but you will be able to figure what is being said.
One pissed off moose, he should have thrown his hat in his face to spook him out of that trance they get into. Good thing he had those trees to hide behind.
I think I have read some of the same comments on an anti hunting website about a hunter killing an animal. You guys are a trip
I think I have read some of the same comments on an anti hunting website about a hunter killing an animal. You guys are a trip
I think the snowmobiler had stopped at the proper distance the first time. I would of just sat there and watched. I would never of kept creeping up and pressuring the moose trying to coax them away. Once the moose attacked the smowmobiler had no choice, but they did everything wrong up to that point to cause the attack.
I tend to enjoy watching wildlife while sledding, one of the surprises of sledding. Not always in a hurry to rip thru the snow. There are always alternative routes. Possible opportunity for off trail fun trying to go around to the clearing down below. As many have said deep powder riding depends on the sled and the driver. In my experience getting stuck is more times than not is driver error. Either way, we do not know or see enough of his setup or his experience. I would make the point, being able to make a simple turnaround should be a requirement to be on a trail riding. If you look closely on the video. 6 seconds in on the left of the trail you see the old tracks of another sled doing a turn around or going off trail. There appears the rider had another alternative. I guess I am like some old sledders here, I started sledding before trails had groomers and riders got soft.
When the moose got off the trail, the snow was very deep. he was probably just resting on the tracked surface.
Its a learning experience because snowmobilers encounter moose on trails all the time.
There is another such encounter in ME by NH/MA snowmobilers. The snowmobilers posted it on their facebook and now the MDIFW and Maine DA are investigating. Although the Maine encounter it appears the snowmobilers were chasing and closing on the moose.
Here is a link if anybody wishes to compare. I think the DA will make a ruling shortly on the Maine incident.
double post removed for thread maintenance.
Guy was in the wrong. Why provoke? What would waiting 5 minutes really cost him?
I've seen a lot of videos of bear charges and bluff bear charges...usually ends up with a few shots "across the bow" and a bear high tailing it the other way.
I'm not sure if that first shot was a warning shot, a hit, or a poor shot, but I'd like to think that if this guy had "warning shot" on the brain, he'd have pulled that pistol out after the first mock charge and used it instead of instigating the end result. Sad to see, but I've never been in that situation so I can't say what would happen with me. Easy to judge from cyberworld.
I love how many of you are so quick to judge?
Few questions for all of you condemming the shooter?
1. Was snowmobile operatoer familier with moose and moose behaviors?
2. Was guy on vacation renting snowmobiles? Perhaps unguided and told to stay on trail loop?
3. Was the guy suppose to let the moose keep attacking him? What would your response be if this had been a bear????
It is a Moose who attacked a human, I would have killed it myself once attacked 1 time.
I think it is almost obvious the guy was clueless how to deal with a moose otherwise he would not have kept encroaching him and making sounds like a yelping dog.
Nothing like a Bowsiter rushing to conclusions without all the facts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Kelly,
I will jump in on this. Even though some say I am too reserved to put forth an opinion.
I did make a judgement, but do not feel I was quick. I looked at the video couple times and did read the previous posts. I missed one post about facts, so my observation mimmic another. My Bad These threads are calling for a judgement and posted as a learning tool.
1) Was the sledder familiar with moose and their behaviors? We do not know that for sure. But based upon my own experience there are two good options. No he was completely unaware. Or Yes he was very aware and this was a deliberate provocation. I believe this was nullified because there was a turnout off the trail available. If one is afraid to turn off trail, use reverse, or get off and pick their backend up and walk it around. There were two sledders, which makes it easier. Difficult in deep snow, but not that bad. I do agree with you, obvious the sledder clueless of many things. Or forgot everything he was told on his first encounter.
2) Good question. I have never rented a sled, always owned. My observations are its not a major trail with a single lane. One would have to go a little off trail to just pass another sled coming towards him. I am also unfamiliar with what rules, liability sheets or instructions would be given to a newbie renter. I know when I take friends out, I give instructions which include wildlife. Things may arise, which mean a separation. So I try to be complete. But agreed, one cannot tell all needed info or expect it to heard the first time. I suspect this topic at a sled rental shops will be near the top now.
3)Absolutely not. Once the guy did all the wrong things, IMO. He had no choice but end the attack by shooting the moose, IMO.
We do not know all the facts now, but those who are looking into this will determine the facts.
My link of the current case about a Maine Moose and 2 sledders. There was video, but there was no verification of where it was shot. One of the first things the MDIFW had to do was verify it occurred in Maine. This investigation is going on right now and all the unknown facts may be determined. The DA is determining if prosecution is warranted now.
You raise great questions and there are more I am sure. Judgements and comments will be made on both sides. I would hope the benefit of all comments and judgments would be a learning tool for others. And maybe less of these incidents.
I will present another question we do not know. We all see the moose ahead of the trail very early on. 4) we do not know how far ahead the sledder was actually looking and when he first saw the moose. We just assume when we first see it , he saw it as well. We assume he is standing up to look over the horizon ridge to see what's ahead going down a single lane trail.
What is amazing to me is just how different so many opinions are! Wow.
Why did he have to load his gun? Why carry a sidearm without a round in the chamber? What would he have done if it fell right in the middle of the trail?
Wonder how long that moose lived after it was shot numerous times, the slender should have put another in the head to make sure it died quick.
Here is a similar situation where the moose is pushed until it attacks. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40x89Q2o5Xw
What I got from the snowmobile attack: The driver was carrying a pistol but not expecting to use it, hence no round in the chamber. He had no expectation the moose would attack, and didn't pull the gun until after the moose nailed him...and he realized his life was at risk. It was the second attack which convinced him that he needed to use the weapon. He didn't go into the situation looking to provoke a fight. He may well have misunderstood moose behavior, but that's a judgment call. Perhaps he'd had previous encounters and watched the moose simply move out of his way. This bull proved to be different, and I'm sure neither the driver nor the moose liked the outcome.
Moose aren't exactly track stars when it comes to outrunning or avoiding danger. That huge body is better adapted to turn and fight than keep running when tired or stressed. In a way, moose are the elephants of the deer world. Predictable to a point, but their size gives them a unique set of behaviors when danger gets too close. The truck video is one I've seen several times and demonstrates this very well.
Can't say what I would've done had I been on the snow machine...Monday morning quarterbacking is too easy. I do know that I wouldn't have wasted a second debating about taking shots once the attack started. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
