How many of you would allow that in your home state?
And now to top it off, the largest, most active BC hunting site has been threatened with legal action to stifle resident hunters from voicing dissenting views.
Most BC'ers welcome foreign hunters. We have one of the most diverse and hunt-able game populations in the world, likely second only to RSA. And most BC'ers still support credible outfitters that work with and not against residents.
But at this point it looks like there will be a knock-down, drag-out all out fight over the future face of hunting in BC, particularly for non-residents.
What are many BC residents asking you to do? Don't book a hunt with any member of the GOABC. If you have booked a hunt, rest assured that residents will still welcome you as a fellow hunter engaged in the same pursuit that we all cherish.
Perhaps it's time for influential US clubs and sportman's associations to lobby for non-resident draws and let the winners decide how they want to hunt. Guided or not.
BC resident hunters are definitely feeling shafted and it's going to get ugly on the mountains, in the woods and possibly in the courts.
Good luck with the BC problem. As we learned in CO during the "deliberation process", it was already a done deal no matter what resident hunters thought of it.
Hunting is big business. It ain't the old days anymore.
I remember the landowner voucher debacle in Co. I would love to hunt one of the better units in Co for elk but I won't buy a voucher though. I will continue to hunt the easier draw units or OTC.
You were sold out. Literally.
You have my support, for what it's worth from here....
Beyond that are there BC residents unable to hunt their chosen species at will on an annual basis?
In my travels and dreams of old, I often found myself wishing to live where I could hunt moose. elk, caribou, etc... out my door. But, I realize after dreaming a bit, I live in a state that a simple $100 will put a bear, turkeys, all the small game I can carry, and 7-9 whitetails in the freezer. No tags, no BS. You go and buy it and you go hunting. No draws, no crap like this. It is just ridiculous. You pay to play but, everybody gets the same options. I'll take living in the east and having it this way than any of the hunting scenarios these awesome places offer.
Good luck to you guys. I hope you win. God Bless
For anyone coming here to BC, when you sign your agreement with the outfitter, ask what your $150 Hunting Preservation Fund you are being charged is actually going to?? It is supposed to help ensure there is hunting here in BC and to fight any anti-hunting groups taking away hunting rights.
The GOABC has paid over $100000 to our provincial government in "Election Contributions" to get these changes. When asked, the VP of the GOABC would not answer when I asked if the HPF was being used to grease politicians and if the hunters who are paying are aware of this. And it is now probably paying for a lawyer to write letters to squash residents voices.
I am an assistant guide (semi retired), but a resident hunter first.
We need to get this straightened out so we can get back to making more wildlife of all to enjoy.
Thanks of taking the time to read this.
Cheers
SS
I couldn't disagree with you more on this. Are you saying that you don't feel anyone has the right to kill more than one Stone Sheep in their life?
Who are you to pick the specie in which you deem more "sacred" than all others? I don't mean any disrespect with that question, but what about other species in which someone else might hold more dear to them?
I understand the anger there in BC, I really do. It isn't over yet if you all pull together and get on the phone.
michael
Lumping all BC resident hunters (100,000 people or so) into the same bucket as poachers is like saying all Kansas hunters are poachers. Just isn't the case in either jurisdiction. Sorry you had a bad experience but I don't even know any resident hunters with an airplane. Except for commercial operators with planes on floats where I hunt there is no air traffic. I do know some outfitters use super cubs in some of the sheep areas and have heard of mis-use.
Ambush's post isn't about poaching so let's drop it there.
Hopefully some of the residents will respond to your questions.
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife/hunting/resident/docs/leh_14_15.pdf
If you wish to drop it do so. After a dozen or so Stone's sheep hunts and the BS I put up with, I am free to comment on it.
Like someone said above, I am glad I hunted what I did when I did because those opportunities are fading away and we have no one to blame but ourselves. This is just my opinion, Maybe I AM getting old and cranky but it is not always about what is just good for me.
Tilzbow. Man, I don't know what to say to you, so I'll say nothing.
R Hale. You got some bad luck to be buzzed by the only five resident hunters that own planes and happened to be there just when you were.
For the others. The only two species that are on draw only is grizzly and bison. For the rest there are OTC or GOS tags available somewhere in the province. But the area could be an several hundred miles away from your home. Many people can't hunt moose, elk, sheep, goat, grizzly anywhere near their homes. Some folks from Vancouver Island travel two days, one way, for their annual moose hunt to get to areas that are not unduly restricted.
We have areas that are open for moose or elk, but access is difficult and often because outfitters have lobbied to have roads closed. So the average Joe has to hire horses or planes. Guess what? The outfitters also lobbied to have packers restricted. And they have deals where local pilots won't fly residents into areas that the outfitters hunt or that pilot doesn't get their business.
In these same areas where the residents are on GOS than outfitters are not restricted either. In many guide territories in the upper half of the province, an outfitter can sell as many hunts as he can book and handle.
Unfortunately, in the early 2,000's many outfitters wrangled "regional" deals to over harvest and inflate their quotas. This made their territory, on paper, very valuable and some were sold at very high prices. The harvest levels were not and never were sustainable. It was about money, pure and simple.
Let me be clear. BC hunters do not want to exclude "foreign" hunters. Our fight is with the Guide Outfitters Association of BC and their under handed dealings.
Many BC residents would rather see a non-resident component in the draw system. For example, where residents are on GOS then make a number of tags available to non-residents in a draw. The non-resident could decide to go guided or not. There is no good reason that a US hunter shouldn't be able to put in for a Stone, goat, moose or elk and go hunt on his own if he wants. For some species like black bears, draw tag numbers could and should be very generous. The only reason you can't is that the outfitters have a strangle hold on non-residents. Another big surprise is that some area's owners have US addresses.
But I guess the real beef is; up to forty percent of the tags available for draw would be going to outfitters rather than the hunters that live here, that volunteer their time for wildlife here and pay taxes and fees to manage and enhance the game populations here.
I'm just asking you to ask yourself. Would you tolerate that in your home state?
Canada does way too many screwed up things to mention. Just add another to the list.
Guys using an outfitter in BC need to keep one thing in mind, the tag allotment to outfitters is a little different than in the states. For example, outfit A gets one grizzly bear tag. If you don't tag out on your hunt he can use it for another hunter and another hunter-later. Not exactly an incentive to get you one as these tags are golden.
The outfitters there got sheep put on GOS for themselves. That means they can sell as many hunts and kill as many sheep as they can get hunters on. But of course there is more to the story. Counts show that the number of harvest-able rams to be about sixty for the hunt-able area. Plus residents will also be hunting there. With "creative" inventory they were able to include surrounding parks, mine property and resident only areas to bring the harvest-able numbers up to two hundred. They can't access those sheep for their clients, but they can sell sheep hunts based on those numbers. Some outfitters are selling some very high priced camping trips into some beautiful country but not much chance of shooting a ram.
Beendare also makes an important point. Outfitters have a five year window in which to fill their quota when they are under quota. For example: an outfitter has ten sheep tags over a five year period. He could shoot eight of those sheep in the first year and then keep booking hunters over the next four years looking for those last two rams. You could be going to an area that has just been creamed of the good rams, but the "success" rate would look great during your research. An outfitter can keep selling that tag until someone kills the ram. If he can maintain a 25% success rate that means each tag is worth four hunts.
The outrage and outcry from resident hunters has been unprecedented and has now garnered a lot of attention with the media, non-hunting public and particularly politicians. The main government players have now stated that they "...didn't get it quite right..." and they are going to re-look at it.
Non-residents should look very carefully at booking in BC for the near future anyway. Nobody wants to be caught up in a mess when they have put their hard earned dollars into a dream trip. But if this drags on and no real progress is made then the situation is going to come to an extreme conclusion and that may well end with no non-resident hunting in BC.
That would be a sad day, but the blame will lay squarely with a small group of greedy people that care little for wildlife and a lot for their bank accounts.
Wherever there is something of value, there are people trying to steal it.
Who can hunters write to to express their opinion about this outfitter tag-grab?
Guide outfitting is a business. And like in all businesses there are different models and attitudes at work.
Some businesses are run on integrity both in personnel and product. They have what they say and do there best to deliver. They look after problems fairly and put costumers first. BC has some guides like this.
Some businesses are in it for only the money and will go to any lengths to get yours. Miss-leading, disrespectful, often smooth talking and not above just plain ripping people off in regards to delivery of the promised product. BC has some of this type of guide as well.
The GOABC shook hands on an agreement in 2007. That was good enough for the residents to believe it was done. But apparently the GOABC doesn't honor our forefathers code.
BC residents are hoping that the good, honest, hard working guides that are also giving back, will separate themselves from the GOABC. Because, right or wrong, if you ride with horse thieves, you will hang with the horse thieves.
I think that outfitting businesses are a good thing...and the gov should facilitate them so they can run their businesses in an ethical manner. But this stinks of special interest....and that is never a good thing for society as a whole.
The only species not over the counter are grizz, Rosy elk, dall sheep The odds are only tough one to draw is the Rosy tag.
there are many LEH draws as well for different species which would include doe and cow tags.
You must realize you can hunt these species ever single year! I bet most of you can't say that about your state.
Same with elk, moose, deer, caribou and goats where many areas are on draw only.
Guides also have areas of open season, no limit on these same animals.
Simply put, a resident can't just buy a tag for all the listed animals and hunt anywhere.
Doug, you forgot draw only on bison to. Easy one to forget, 'cause the odds are poor.
And when you say GOS should be honest and include the restrictions that go with that season. How about spike/fork moose GOS that covers a big portion of the province. Some would rather have a unicorn tag 'cause you may at least see one of those.
How about those Kootany Bighorns? GOS for residents. But guess what GOS for outfitters to. And they somehow managed to inflate the numbers over threefold to get it. Not many rams will survive that onslaught will they? Guides got that little gem aranged, NOT resident sheep hunters.
I didn't call you out and I very plainly stated that there were good outfitters that were giving back. Maybe I was including you. But now you are calling me out and that was not necessary.
You are A BC outfitter and a member of the GOABC and plainly have a very biased interest in this issue.
I can easily substantiate any thing I've said or will say. If your intent is to give the Bowsite hunting community a smaller version of what is going on in BC, on a large scale, with a public fight here, then fire away.
According to the HAP press release that I was able to find, it reads more like the huber of resident hunters in BC has increased approximately 25% in recent years and maybe that has had an affect on what is being done with the tags? It sounds to me like the amount of tags available in general in BC will be changing in the near future if these numbers are right as the number of hunters has significantly increased. Is there something else that you are talking about?
You responded to my post on the Moose board where I asked about an outfitter and added a comment to see it any of the issues being mentioned on your post here would have an affect on my hunt in 2016 (If I were to book it). I know BC is not Quebec, but there have been WAY too many hunters that have lost considerable amounts of money trying to hunt in Canada in the last few years.
I am not trying to argue, just want to read the information for myself.
In 2007 a allocation agreement was reached and agreed to by all parties. That should be it right? It never got implemented. Well as we now know, no sooner were the tables and chairs put away then the back room dealing started. The result was sprung on resident hunters on December 10th 2014. Quite simply we got screwed over. The GOABC now says it was only a gentleman's "agreement" and not really a "deal".
The HAP is not in force so is irrelevant.
If you want a factual, historical and up to date read on the "deal', by someone who was present and participated then use this link.
http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?113606-2007-Harvest-Allocation-Policy-Discussion
I would encourage anyone that is interested in hunting in BC to go to the site "Hunting BC". I would also encourage you to sign up as member, because the discussion now involves non-resident draws and how that should look. Input from hunters that have experience with different systems would be helpful.
How so? I actually think AZ is looking to increase NR opportunity. Not in the form of tags... but the fact is 98% of hunters have NO chance to draw premium units in their lifetime. AZ's proposal on the table now is giving everyone an opportunity to draw those tags.
Besides, the proposal doesn't cut any tags, so Im not sure what you mean by your statement?
