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Everything's made up and the points don't matter.

Is this a joke of a system or what? I've heard far too many stories like this. Maine legislators suck.

That said, I buy a 10 pack every year because I figure I have to to keep up with everyone else that does it too.

Every year I look at my points and try to guess what state is eying me up to screw next.

These systems were largely created between 1987 and 2002. Excluding the group of people who started playing the game when they were created, in the time since, most new NR point builders started doing so in their mid-to-late 20s or early 30s as far as I can tell from interviewing people - and that only makes sense because that's usually when people have the financial stability to start plunking down the money for apps and can afford out-of-state hunts.

When that age group starts to see that the wait for trophy tags is at or after an age where they might be too old to handle the hunt, then the money-faucet that is NR apps will dry up.

I predict that all of these preference point systems for tags where demand greatly outstrips supply will eventually all change to bonus point systems or will have some sort of change.

CO will most likely be one of the first to make a change like AZ because they're one of the farthest along, simply by nature of when their system was implemented. WY and CA have the benefit of not having been created as early so they have more time before the SHTF.

CO has some options: they could add a random % like WY that would kick the can down the road for a short time. They could go all draw, forcing all the people who hunt OTC to choose between hunting and building points, which will also kick the can down the road, or they could switch over to a bonus point system, which will screw over a bunch of people who were getting close to their desired tag.

This is all inevitable in every state with a PP system: CO, WY, WA, OR, and CA. Utah may also eventually change its system.

In the end, the only way to really have a system that's healthy long term is a system like Nevada or Idaho. The states will have to pick eventually.

IMO, NV's system is the best in the country.

I could definitely live with Nevada's system in Maine! Except throw out their outfitter welfare quotas. If they did these things, my odds would skyrocket and I'd be out of everyone's way in no time! But money & history tells me the Maine legislators won't do the right thing.

But in any draw system where demand greatly outstrips supply, PP systems are total bunk because there's no such thing as "waiting your turn" when there aren't enough tags to go around to just wait your turn.

If you extrapolate over 80 years, the general lifetime of most people, eventually, everyone's going to have been the person to have put in a long time and some will come up empty. The PP system rewards only those that are lucky enough to get in year 1. No matter how long they put in for, they'll have a lifetime of better odds than everyone who comes afterwards. That's why these PP systems are broken.

Sheep and moose tags are a good example. Someone (multiple people) has to go without.

Good example, here in CA: We have less than 20 sheep tags/yr. 75% of tags go to max points holders and 25% to random which the max point holders get put into if they don't draw in the PP round.

Max points right now is 13 or 14 points. There are about 10 thousand people who put in every year for sheep in CA, but only 2 thousand of them have max points because they got in the very first year.

This year, there are 17 sheep tags and 10 will go in the PP round and 7 in the random round. Because less than a dozen guys come out of the max point pool every year by drawing, the max point pool never diminishes. These guys will enjoy better odds for their entire lives even though many of them will never draw.

So you've got 2 thousand guys that have 1 in 200 odds at a sheep tag in the PP round and then join the others for a 1 in 1000 2nd chance in the random round. And they'll get these odds till they die while the rest of us "might" get to the bonus round one day in our 80s. Under this system, this one age group of men will enjoy far better odds their entire lives and people who will eventually be "oldtimers" who've also done the time and spent the money will never receive that benefit.

I have 5 sheep points in CA. In another 10 years, I'll have more points and have put in for a longer period of time than the guys who are putting in this year. But I'll STILL be playing with 1 in 1000 odds while they continue to enjoy a 1 in 200 odds draw, followed by a 1 in 1000 draw.

So yes, when I say they enjoy better odds "at the expense of everyone else," it's because these PP systems are a ponzi scheme. If you think anyone "earns" any tag, you're deluding yourself if you think that's fair in any case other then when there are enough tags to eventually draw a tag - and in many cases there are. I'll draw a CA deer tag this year with 4 points. I did my time and I'm happy to draw my tag when I know I'll draw it. But that's the only time that PP systems work: when there's enough tags to go around. When there isn't, then PP systems are an utter failure and reward one age group of men at the expense of everyone else.

And Squash, that's not an alternative for me. I have zero desire to hunt guided. That alone takes that option off of the table for a guy like me and there's many other guys that only hunt DIY because that's how we hunt. What is more, I go on 6ish hunts per year. Going on a guided hunt is an option for people who go on one big hunt a year and do the rest of their hunting at home. I rely on drawing tags or else it's DIY OTC, which in general, are the least desirable hunts to go on for most people.

Maine...I'll just drive through on my way to Newfoundland.

If they did not "intend" that last change to convert tags to preference, then tell us why they made any change at all. They had a true bonus point system prior to that.

I agree with you Zim, either change it and leave it or don't change it or you're going to screw people, like you. You certainly did get hosed. It remains to be seen how badly, like I said (you could draw next year and a 1 year wait wouldn't be so bad), but IMO, they should have foreseen this when they made the bonus pass and decided if that's what they wanted or not.

Maine, well, there's no lack of foresight there. The multiple 10 pack change was just an unabashed money-grab.

Congrats. Bet you're glad your legislators finally canned the 10 pack point peddling for residents and quit devaluing your 17 points! Wish they'd quit throwing the most invested nonresident sportsmen under the bus as well.

If you're going DIY, I'd be glad to share some District 7 moose info.

http://www.maine.gov/ifw/licenses_permits/lotteries/moose/#bonuspoints

Because of my work schedule, I decided to hire a guide. I'm going with Matt Tinker (Green Farm Guide Service) Matt lives in the zone and spends the year guiding in the zone.

Thanks for the luck...

Congrats and Good luck to you too CWD.

I hope you guys take a lot of pics and will consider a semi-live hunt or keep a journal and write it up when you get home.

Always like to read the story.