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Exotic antelope ban?

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Messages posted to thread:
bghunter 04-Jan-12
trevore 04-Jan-12
Bigpizzaman 04-Jan-12
wcellison 04-Jan-12
Keith at home 04-Jan-12
bghunter 05-Jan-12
Buff 05-Jan-12
bghunter 05-Jan-12
Keith in Colo. 05-Jan-12
bghunter 05-Jan-12
trevore 05-Jan-12
HeadHunter® 06-Jan-12
the_runner 30-Jan-12
the_runner 30-Jan-12
milnrick 30-Jan-12
TD 30-Jan-12
JTreeman 30-Jan-12
whitetailer 30-Jan-12
AAA 31-Jan-12
TXHunter 31-Jan-12
KShogman 31-Jan-12
Jaquomo_feral 31-Jan-12
TXHunter 01-Feb-12
PAstringking 02-Feb-12
Straight —» Arrow 02-Feb-12
bghunter 12-Feb-12
bighorn 12-Feb-12
charly seale 20-Feb-12
Buff 10-May-12
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From: bghunter Date: 04-Jan-12
I know some people will freak out because this involves hunting animals on a high fence. This is not a debate about high fence.

I just received a report from SCI that FWS will decide tomorrow on new regulations on the transport/hunting and sale of Scimitar Horn Oryx/Dama Gazelle and if I recall Addax. If I read this correctly you may now be required to obtain special permits for these animals.

Curious what this will do to the prices of these animals for those that choose to hunt them? WIll it increase/decrease or remain stable?

I know that in the states is the only place in the world you can hunt these animals.

From: trevore Date: 04-Jan-12
My understanding is that the exemption granted for these three specie is basically being revoked. It is also my understanding that it's already a done deal and we're waiting on the official announcement along with the specified grace period. The required permitting process is also to be released. If it's anything like it was before, it's a serious PITA.

I would expect a pretty good price increase. One to deal with the requirements and then to make up for the decreased supply. The harvest will be regulated by the gov't instead of the ranchers. Less income for them and more work.

From: Bigpizzaman Date: 04-Jan-12
You can hunt these animals in South Africa, but not import to the US. Alot of Texas ranches have already "reduced" their herds. Price and paperwork will put them out of sight, you will really want one bad to shoot one! Animal rights folks think they will "save" these species by "limiting" hunting, in fact they are already being shot out because of the new rules. Ranchers will not be able to afford to feed them with no return (hunting). Tree huggers don't spend alot to see animals.

From: wcellison Date: 04-Jan-12
Youre correct in that most ranches wont keep their herds. The permits generally dont allow the harvest of does and its very difficult to sell the animals live. Theres also a time limit on any permit. They are already in effect on a few animals like barasingha. Its very discouraging to anyone who has those animals to keep them due to the complicated nature of the permit. The government is pursuing animals which are endangered or extinct in their native habitat. So most exotics in Texas could eventually fall under its reach. Its a shame for the animals because they are the losers. Especially because private herds have helped to restock animals in their native habitat like Pere David in China.

From: Keith at home Date: 04-Jan-12
Anyone have a link to this where we can read about it?

From: bghunter Date: 05-Jan-12
Keith

You should be able to find it on SCI website.

BPM

That was my thought exactly on what will happen to the animals. The animals rights people do not realize that without the ranches in the US these animals may have been totally wiped out. We as hunters do more then they could ever imagine for wildlife.

Heck they used these ranches in the US as Wcellison had said to restock native herds in the their original country. Without these efforts it is possible these animlas may not exsist at all.

Well lets keep our fingers crossed that FWS does not fold, but I am not holding my breath. If they do fold looks like I will have to cross the Scimitar Oryx off my bucket list.

Shawn

PS If the rule does go into effect it will be 90 days before you need the permits. So if you want to hunt them start looking ASAP.

From: Buff Date: 05-Jan-12

Buff's embedded Photo

I own a small herd of Addax. I never have sold a hunt for one. They are just for looking at. These new law change will force me to kill all of them. It is a shame as they are really pretty and I enjoyed having them on my farm

From: bghunter Date: 05-Jan-12
Buff

If you wanted to keep the animals, how would the change effect you since you do not offer hunts? I am curious as it is this exact reason why I think this ban is going to be so harmful to the recovery attempts of such animlas.

You are right they are cool looking animlas and you are lucky to have them to look at.

From: Keith in Colo. Date: 05-Jan-12
Just checked SCI's website and could not find anything about this.

From: bghunter Date: 05-Jan-12
They just sent an e-mail about this yesterday. Later tonight I will see if I can find a way to post it on here.

From: trevore Date: 05-Jan-12
Wcellison is right on the money. They, the Humane Society: who is the current backer of this litigation are trying like hell to expand the reach of the ESA ( endangered species act). If they succeed it will most certainly end hunting for aoudad and black buck as well as no telling how many other specie.

I don't think FWS has the backbone to stop it and any other proponents of hunting are either tied up with other issues and/or under funded to fight this bs.

From: HeadHunter® Date: 06-Jan-12
My Thoughts; If they are OWNED by a ranch/individual and they are bred by a breeder....they are infact 'cattle or livestock...privately owned and the owner CAN do whatever he/she wants with his property!

Hunting etc. ....... State Regulations by Game and Fish and even Federal should have NO SAY SO in the matter....and surely not the crapola Humane Society!

I'm NOT a High Fence Hunter...but some like it and that should be all that matters!.....jmho

From: the_runner Date: 30-Jan-12
Here is a segment 60 Minutes did. I have not had a chance to watch (no head-phones at work), but thought I would pass it along...

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_162-57368000/can-hunting-endangered-animals-save-the-species/

From: the_runner Date: 30-Jan-12

the_runner's Supporting Link

if at first you don’t succeed…

From: milnrick Date: 30-Jan-12
I watched the 60 Minutes Segment that talked about the Scimitar-horned Oryx last night and felt that Lara Logan actually did a fair-balanced job explaining what’s happening, how hunters have actually brought the species back from extinction and how ‘Friends of Animals’ and others like them are pretty much giving them a death sentence.

I think she presented the Hunter/Rancher sides of the puzzle quite well and homed in on the fact that hunter’s demand (and $$$) combined sound management and renewability of the resource were instrumental in the success the species was currently experiencing. She also homed in on the FOA spokeswoman’s position that she (and her organization) would rather see the animals be extinct than be hunted.

What’s really sad is that politicians, pundits, activists and such – regardless of their motivation don’t quite understand, and can’t grasp the differences between Conservation and Preservation.

As for pricing – I think you’ll find these hunts are going to be steeply discounted between now and the date the new requirements take effect because the ‘paperwork’ for the harvest permit will become too burdensome for ranchers and landowners to contend with.

From: TD Date: 30-Jan-12
Humane Society, PETA, et al don't give a rip about animals, if they live or die. Just so long as no one hunts any...... that's all they want.

They would rather the species existence end than see them hunted and survive.

From: JTreeman Date: 30-Jan-12
I saw the 60 minutes segment as well, and would agree milnrick's comments above. Plus I just think Lara Logan is hot.

Overall, a sad story for those animals. When export of black faced impala was eliminated a few years ago in Africa, I know of some ranchers who just went out and killed their whole herd, no export=no hunters=no money. They cannot just keep feeding and breeding them for fun! What a joke, how the hell do these policies help the animals? People are so stupid.

Hopefully someday things can change, but I just don't see it happening. Which makes me sad.

---Jim

From: whitetailer Date: 30-Jan-12
Nothing wrong with hunting any of them animals, I would bet, that quality ranches in Texas have saved more species than our goofy Gov't could have ever achieved.

From: AAA (mobile)Sent from Mobile Phone Date: 31-Jan-12
Millions SCI has from all of us and they pass a regulation like this? We must not be speaking loudly enough...

From: TXHunter Date: 31-Jan-12
I can verify that down here in Texas Oryx "hunts" are being sold for pennies on the dollar and the animals are being killed at a breathtaking pace.

From: KShogman Date: 31-Jan-12
TXHunter, what ranch is offering cheap Oryx hunts? I would like go hunt one.

From: Jaquomo_feral Date: 31-Jan-12
AAA, SCI didn't have anything to do with this new rule. It is a federal rule from the USFWS, which is bowing down to the animal-rights advocates.

I also thought Lara Logan did a good job of presenting a balanced perspective on hunter-conservationists (very rare for CBS and 60 Minutes..). The FOA nag came off looking like a bitter old zealot who didn't give a damn about survival of the species, only the few individual animals "they" are saving in their little zoo in Africa.

From: TXHunter Date: 01-Feb-12
K I am not an exotics hunter but if you log onto texashuntingforum.com and go to the "exotics" section there are many opportunities being discussed there. This is how I learned about the situation. Good luck!

From: PAstringking Date: 02-Feb-12
this whole situation is really a shame and I agree that 60 min did a pretty good job making that close-minded animal rights nut look like she is crazy.

when non-hunting biologists say that this law will hurt the species...they lose their leg to stand on.

but....politics are politics and animal rights screwballs have their dirty fingers in way to many pockets.

From: Straight —» Arrow Date: 02-Feb-12
I don't think it would have been possible for 60 minutes to make her not look like a nut.

From: bghunter Date: 12-Feb-12
I went on US Fish adn WIldlife and the ban did go into effect and will start April 4th I think. I saw one ranch that already said after the date they will no longer offer hunts for the banned species.

It is a shame that "the animal lovers" really have no clue what they are doing to the species. I would love to see the animal rights now anti up the dough and pay what hunters do just so they can go watch them. That whay it will continue to help the species recover.

From: bighorn Date: 12-Feb-12
The 60 min show was right on. The high fence ranches have saved all these Exotics fron extiction, they sent them back to there native land and they kill them as fast as they cone back. The only place these animals will exist is on these ranches but if the goverment regulates them these ranchers can't raise them for free, we all know what happens to things when gove. gets involved it will be the end of these animals. It's a sad time for these animals these ranchers did a remarkable thing saving these Exotics an now Friends of Animals would rather them become extinct. And headhunter is right on if these ranchers own the land and animals nobody should be able to tell them what they can or cannot do the goverment is taking away ther rights. What's next?

From: charly seale Date: 20-Feb-12
If you want to know about the Exotic Antelope permit go to the Exotic Wildlife Association's website at www.exoticwildlifeassociation.com...I am the executive director and I can tell you this. Effective April 4, 2012 breeders will have to have a captive wildlife breeders permit to ship across state lines and a take permit if they intend to hunt these animals. This is a cumbersome process and very intrusive. Most will not apply for these and eventually the animals will go back to the populations of the 1970's...200-300 hundred instead of the tens of thousands that reside on private ranches...these are private property and the ESA was never established to govern U.S. born animals...our last census showed 11032 Scimitar horned oryx, 5116 Addax and 894 Dama Gazelle...if an animal has value to the owner it will be propagated if not it will disappear...regardless how one feels about the high fence vs low fence issue we are all sportmen and womem...the animal rights activist's main goal is to stop ALL HUNTING...they go after those they think are the easiest and will eventually go after all of it...if you do not believe this you are living in a fantasy world...if anyone wants additional information you can contact me at charly@myewa.org or at the EWA office....We are committed to fighting this with lawsuits already filed against the USFWS and more coming as well as attempting to get legislation passed. Folks the EWA owns more numbers of these animals than any other association so check out our website...thanks for your time...Charly Seale...Executive Director...Exotic Wildlife Association

From: Buff Date: 10-May-12

Buff's embedded Photo

All of mine or now in the freezer


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Subject: RE: Exotic antelope ban?

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