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Is Steve Kobrine Africa's Chuck Adams?

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Messages posted to thread:
Dagga Boy 28-Aug-08
Ak Ultratec 29-Aug-08
joker2400 29-Aug-08
Hollywood 29-Aug-08
Bowfreak 29-Aug-08
DaveL 30-Aug-08
cotrapper 30-Aug-08
Hollywood 30-Aug-08
Ken Moody 30-Aug-08
Spiral Horn 31-Aug-08
DaveL 01-Sep-08
Ken Moody 01-Sep-08
Spiral Horn 01-Sep-08
Ken Moody 01-Sep-08
Ak Ultratec 02-Sep-08
Craig 02-Sep-08
Spiral Horn 02-Sep-08
Ken Moody 02-Sep-08
Dagga Boy 03-Sep-08
Shaft2Long 03-Sep-08
Hollywood 04-Sep-08
Carolina Counsel 04-Sep-08
IaHawkeye 04-Sep-08
Sugar 02-Oct-08
Sugar 03-Oct-08
Ken Moody 03-Oct-08
Sugar 03-Oct-08
Ken Moody 03-Oct-08
Steve H. 03-Oct-08
Clark 03-Oct-08
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From: Dagga Boy Date: 28-Aug-08
Steve Kobrine seems to be the first international hunter to take a Nile bushbuck with a bow. He recently hunted Uganda and enjoyed fantastic hunting for species not available elsewhere. The Nile bushbuck looks like a cross between a Chobe and a harnessed bushbuck. You can see his trophy at the Hunting Report website under Website Uploads. Steve has really been racking them up lately. He took an outstanding mountain nyala with his bow that can be seen at the same place as the above. Check them out and let me know if you know anybody else who's taken a Nile bushbuck bowhunting.

From: Ak Ultratec Date: 29-Aug-08
Archie Nesbit maybe? I know he was the first one to take a mountain Nyala with a bow last year or so sometime. Just a thought....

From: joker2400 Date: 29-Aug-08
Check the archery section of the SCI record book for Africa. Steve Kobrine or Archie Nesbitt seem to be in the Top Ten of every animal.

From: Hollywood Date: 29-Aug-08
Don't tell the Africans that.

Why do you think they hate Tink Nathan? Imagine someone from France claiming to be North America's top bowhunter!

...and there are a lot of good bowhunters in France!

From: Bowfreak Date: 29-Aug-08
"Why do you think they hate Tink Nathan?"

I would say for numerous reasons. LOL!!!!

Don't everyone get upset....it is a joke!

From: DaveL Date: 30-Aug-08
Both are pretty impressive. I was looking at the SCI online book the other day and saw that last year alone Archie Nesbitt had 16 trophy book entries, 15 were top ten and 10 were new #1's! That is a whole career's worth! His total entries are now 210. Steve Kobrine hasn't entered anything into SCI since 2006, that I can see.

From: cotrapper Date: 30-Aug-08
I met Steve and his father (Art) in 1997 on a brown bear bowhunt in Alaska. Steve tagged a small brown bear with a bow, and his father killed a mature boar with a rifle.

Art was the neurosurgeon that operated on Bill Brady (as in the Brady bill, when Reagan was shot). Even though they both killed animals, they left camp on relatively poor terms with the outfitter. I think that Alaska was a lot more "primitive" than what they were used in Africa. JMHO.

From: Hollywood Date: 30-Aug-08
Ive noticed too that a lot of "Bigtime" African hunters are a little disappointed in the level of service on a typical Alaskan adventure.

LOL! They should've started in AK and then gone to Africa, not the other way around.

From: Ken Moody Date: 30-Aug-08
I know Archie and Steve and both can afford to shoot anything they wish and in Africa your wallet normally determines your level of success so take all these record book entries with a grain of salt. Not that they're not good guys. Both are very competent hunters and Archie in particular is a nice guy.

Ken Moody

From: Spiral Horn Date: 31-Aug-08
My hat is off to guys like Archie and Steve. They both have done a great deal to put bowhunting on the map with the international community. They are both pioneers in our sport, and have opened up opportunities that simply didn't exist prior to their plowing the road. While I might not have the money or desire to hunt everything that they do, it is really nice to know that the opportunity exists.

I also often like to try something a bit different while planning a bowhunt. Because of guys like Archie and Steve, what used to be a automatic "can't be done with bow and arrow," response from the outfitter, has now turned into, "never tried that before."

Break

On another note -- Hunt and Trophy quality. Having been in many hunting camps all over North America and Africa, feel well founded in observing that there is a vast difference in the quality of hunting/camp conditions and trophy quality available from outfitter to outfitter. Some outfitters/safari companies were committed to focusing on my hunting goals and ensuring that I had a quality/enjoyable hunting/camp experience. Some others acted like the clients were a business distraction and a burden to have to deal with -- caring little about performance once they had my deposit/money. Most were somewhere inbetween -- do your homework.

Tip. If looking to book an African Safari and the Safari Company in any way trys to dodge questions about expected trophy quality or the particulars of the hunt -- pay attention. Recently went against my instincts on this and paid the price.

From: DaveL Date: 01-Sep-08
Well put, Spiral Horn. For example, who else is actively working on opening up Russia to bowhunting?

Ken, your comment, "in Africa your wallet normally determines your level of success" vastly oversimplifies the situation. To kill a Top Ten or world record animal is not normally like going shopping.

From: Ken Moody Date: 01-Sep-08
Really, well I've got two African bow world records on my wall now but wouldn't enter either of them as I don't hunt for record book entries. Where's the fun in that. The archery record book is relatively new to SCI and the entries sparse so a new world record or top ten in anything from Africa cannot come close in comparison to anything from NA and, again, if you have the money to do these hunts on some of these rare species then, of course, it will score very high in the books since not many of them have been taken or entered. Having outfitted in Africa for 16 years qualifies my answer and as far as the SCI record book, if it's male it usually makes the book since the standards are soooooooo low. I'm not taking anything away from Archie or Steve as I know them both and think they're great guys but you cannot compare apples to oranges.

Ken Moody

From: Spiral Horn Date: 01-Sep-08
The SCI Record Book is a great tool for researching where to go and who to go with for most any desired species.

Had the good fortune to run into a somebody very well known in African Hunting on the way back from Jo'berg this past trip. We shared our experiences on this and past trips. As part of this trip, he was checking out a new operation. When he got there, he met a group of bowhunters who had finished their hunt and spending their last night in camp. This was their first African Bowhunt, and they were fiercely bragging the place up as a fantastic hunt destination. They then showed him their trophy photos, which were mostly smaller than representative for the species. However, they were making claims of much larger scores (which they had been told by the PHs). The sad part is that these guys will come back to the US claiming a fantastic safari destination (the pro said that the camp was not up to standard either), with fantastic hunting and trophy quality.

This is all too common these days. On numerous trips back from Africa, or at local SCI Chapter functions, I've had to force a smile as guys show me trophy photos with vastly exaggerated scores. I am also an SCI Official measurer. Far too often guys bring me their hard won trophies to score, who have been told a vastly exaggerated estimated score by the Guide or PH. They are often disappointed and sometimes outraged at discovering that they were misled.

There is one point that needs clearing up here -- Nothing is a certain record book rank or a World Record until it is actually scored by an official measurer and entered into the book. In my experience, the tape more often dispels rather then verifies estimated scores. What the book provides is a verifiable basis for comparison.

The SCI Record Book, and hunting reports on file with thehuntingreport.com, and SCI Trophy Records Department are a great source of information on outfitters. When trying to decide who to hunt with, "look under the hood." If a hunting company who has been in business for a while has very few or not too impressive track of record book entries or no hunt reports on file, there is probably a story there somewhere.

From: Ken Moody Date: 01-Sep-08
Could be that the company does not promote or even care for "the book." I am also an official measurer and have been for some time and if I so desired I could measure every trophy we shoot and place over 90% or them in "the book" given the ridiculously low standards for SCI. If you want alot of entries just score the animals and you'll have alot of entries. It's a good marketing tool for sure but certainly no measure of the quality of the actual hunt and usually attracts the type of client that is only interested in inches which, IMO, is not the best client. How do you measure the experience? I am a life member of SCI and believe it to be the greatest hunting organization in existence. I wish everyone who hunts would join and support it. I also know that the standards are low to entice more entries which means more money for SCI as it costs to enter any animal. "The book" is a great money making tool and I support SCI in all its money making ventures but it causes me an ethical dilema every time I discuss it. To me the SCI record book means absolutely nothing given the low(no)standards but I am happy it makes them money so that they can continue to fight for hunter's rights worldwide. Rowland/Ward on the other hand :^)

Ken Moody

From: Ak Ultratec Date: 02-Sep-08
IMHO...not trying to argue....

I've only been a couple of times, however both times PH's told me our groups were fun to hunt with because we were not stressing out about only shooting "book" animals. We were there for the fun of it, not for putting our names in the "book". For most guys and gals it takes two years just to save up enough money to go to Africa. I can't imagine traveling to Africa only to be stressing the whole time about shooting "book" animals. As Ken said, I would bet most big males that are shot are right around the "book" anyway.

wow...maybe I'm missing the point of this thread...but I wonder how many "blue collar" guys and gals on Bowsite or anywhere else for that matter, check out the SCI record book to decide where they want to go hunting. How does the outfitter, like Ken for example, control which clients enter animals in the book anyway. He could have 30 clients take book animals but if none of them enter in the book no one would ever know....right?

From: Craig Date: 02-Sep-08
Kens' comment about your wallet determining your level of success is true. Considering that a Lord Derby hunt usually starts at around $35 000.00 for 14 days excluding flights, trophy fees, air charter, dip and pack, taxidermy etc it certainly helps to be wealthy. Especially if you have to make 4 or 5 trips to collect your animal ethically.

I also agree with Ken on the SCI matter. SCI standards are very low and even the average "Tape Measure Hunter" can get his name into the book, which will ensure that he has bragging rights among his friends. Take the SCI#1 Cape buffalo for example. The poor thing was only about 8 years old and not even sexually mature yet. Those wonderful genetics were lost forever because some idiot would rather have a soft boss #1 than a genuine dagga boy which would score lower.

I remember hearing a story of an American client that shot a representative East Cape bushbuck. His first question to the outfitter was "How big is it?" The outfitter replied.."How big do you want it to be?" "15 inches" replied the client. The outfitter then said to the client.."Well...then it's 15 inches!"

Another issue is the High Fences in S.A. It's amazing how quickly hunters are willing to accept high fences once you take them for a quick 15 mile walk in soft sand, when it's a balmy 89 degrees with 75% humidity. They don't even have to carry their own rifle or water.

AK is spot on! Too many hunters come to Africa with big dreams of record book trophies instead of just enjoying the experience of hunting on this amazing continent.

From: Spiral Horn Date: 02-Sep-08
Getting back to the original point of the thread. Both Archie and Steve have done more for opening up new bowhunting opportunities than most of us will do in our lifetimes. My friend, Ricardo Longoria has done quite a bit of this as well. Personally, I appreciate what they have done to generate recognition and appreciation of our sport. And, the SCI Record Book is the primary reason that the average bowhunter knows of many of the paths that they've plowed.

Bowhunters have many tools available to research where to go and who to go with. Using available information has helped me make mostly very good decisions about choosing where to go and who to hunt with. I really like to bowhunt, and have really enjoyed hunting with PHs/Guides who really enjoy the challenge/sport of bowhunting trophy class animals. Like to hunt hard, and hunt with guys who like to hunt hard and are open to trying new tactics. At the same time, I still enjoy getting out with the boys back home and culling a few Whitetails (including my share of does). Just different goals for a fun/cull hunt vs. an expensive hunting adventure.

There is one thing that perplexes me a bit though. While many hunters will claim that trophy quality is unimportant, why is it still the single most lied about thing in all of hunting?

From: Ken Moody Date: 02-Sep-08
Well said SH. I cannot argue with anything you've said and I have the utmost respect for Archie in particular as a bowhunter and a person. He's one of the good guys and his contributions to bowhunting in Africa are second to none. I just have a particular disdain for record books and don't think taking an animal's life should ever be based on the sum total in inches of his rack but rather the sum total of the things that led up to getting the shot. Additionally, trophy means old, that's it. If you are fortunate enough to take an old warrior than you've take a real trophy regardless of his headgear.

Ken Moody

From: Dagga Boy Date: 03-Sep-08
Spiral Horn, I'd like to hear more about your not-so-good hunt where you didn't listen to your instincts and paid the price. What happened?

From: Shaft2Long Date: 03-Sep-08
Why were they upset? Don't the outfitters in Alaska make a bunch of waterholes, put out salt licks and build a shed for the guys to shoot out of like they do in Africa?

From: Hollywood Date: 04-Sep-08
LOL! No, I think the issue was daily laundry service, awesome food, 4-5 star accomodations and unlimited alchohol VS. no laundry, palatable food with maybe a few dead bugs in it, probably a wet tent, and whiskey out of a plastic cup at best!

From: Carolina Counsel Date: 04-Sep-08
Short answer: no, he's not. From what I understand Chuck Adams was a common guy who had a passion for bowhunting who helped to pioneer the sport.

I don't know Kobrine, but understand through PH's I have hunted with that he was given a fortune by his father and just travels around African hunting nearly year-round, collecting his species and spending his dad's money. Do I wish I was him? Damn right. Is he anything like Chuch Adams, hell no. I do, however, understand that he is an unbelievable shot with the bow (although I also understand that his shooting ability is only surpassed by his arrogance). Having said all of the above, I will admit full on that this is all hearsay, so is probably not worth the time I just spent typing this response. I guess I'm just jealous.

From: IaHawkeye Date: 04-Sep-08
"Is Steve Kobrine Africas next Chuck Adams ?"

Who cares ? Not that they aren't good, but there are 1000's of guys that could do the same if they had the time and money !!!!!

Well said Ken Moody.

From: Sugar Date: 02-Oct-08
"Really, well I've got two African bow world records on my wall now but wouldn't enter either of them as I don't hunt for record book entries"

If thats the case then you actualy DONT have any world records on your wall do you?

From: Sugar Date: 03-Oct-08
Private mesage from Ken Moody

Do you think your smart assed comment was necessary? What are you trying to accomplish?

Ken Moody

Ken, I wasn't trying to acomplish anything. I was just making the point that if it's not scored and entered it's not a world record...

From: Ken Moody Date: 03-Oct-08
Posting a "private message" is classless. Grow up. Would it make you happy if I edited the post to read that I have two that measure larger than the current world records in their repective categories?

Ken Moody

From: Sugar Date: 03-Oct-08
Whats classless is sending someone private mesages and swearing at them. I don't know who you think you are but you come across as a clown..

From: Ken Moody Date: 03-Oct-08
You do not post private messages on a public forum. That is common courtesy as anyone knows. That's why I sent you a private message to find out what your deal is. I can now see you're just a trouble making troll. Do you even know what this thread is about? Do you know Archie or Steve. I do. Have you ever even been to Africa? I have never seen any posts from you before so why now? The only purpose of your post was to start trouble.

Ken Moody

From: Steve H. Date: 03-Oct-08
I have seen both Sugar's and Ken Moody's posts here for years. Now stop it you two or we're goina draw straws for who woops you guys with a wet noodle, lol.

From: Clark Date: 03-Oct-08
I refuse to carry a tape. I don't want a measurment. If I wasn't happy with the animal, I shouldn't have shot it. If I wanted the animal, does the fact that it's a coupole of inches short dissapoint me? If it does, I would regret shooting the animal in the first place. Too late. As I type this I sit here looking at kudu, gemsbok and springbok mounts. What do they measure? I don't know. I like them though; They bring back memories.

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