Scott Shultz - Rage Broadhead -Cape Buff
International
Not throwing rocks here. I like Scott alot - he is a great archer - and a good hunter.
Watched his show this week - Scent Blockers most wanted - very good show.
Scott took a great cape buffalo - In one shot - short recovery as well.
I always pay careful attention to these celebrity hunters rigs when they are hunting dangerous game - you often see them use something other than their sponsors Products.
it APPEARED Scott was shooting a rage head or some type of rear deploying mechanical.
What are your thoughts on his selection?
I was watching the show and it did look a lot like a Rage and I was a bit surprised of his choice.
My buddy who is a guide and hunting video producer in Australia shoots everything with a Rage. Buffs, boars, camels, all the deer and stags. He's a killing machine. Totally changed my perception about Rage after I saw his massive trophy room.
After this year's hunt, I have a different feeling towards them myself....not good. I'm with Pat on his wondering about the PH allowing it.
I've witnessed antelope and deer killed with em and its downright impressive. But, on bigger animals I like the bombproof fixed blade heads.
Well it worked good once, so that's obvious evidence that expandables are excellent on big game right? :)
I just went to shoot my buffalo and the Ph was clear about not using rage. His recommendation was a 2 blade broadhead
My assumption is that he elected to use that particular broadhead because that is who sponsors the show... It's too bad that sponsorship obligations are a higher priority than using the best set up combination possible to make an ethical shot on the animal.
In my experience, it's not just a poor choice, it's a dangerous one... Given that those type of expandibles usually don't give you much penetration, they are actually inviting a charge from a wounded animal. Anyone who has hunted cape buffalo with a bow will tell you that it is very rare to take the animal down with one single shot. I can only assume that they planned to take as many shots as necessary with the featured broadheads, and finish the hunt up with the double rifles if necessary.... Unethical and dangerous in my opinion... We do not recommend that our clients use expandibles for plainsgame let alone dangerous game.
Firehuntfish,
I think your assumption is absolutely unfair. While I don't think mechanicals are the perfect choice for dangerous game I am not surprised that some do. Obviously his PH was OK with using a Rage and your assumption that they had planned to just finish it off with a rifle is unfair.
I don't know Scott Schultz but I am giving h the benefit of the doubt that he felt confident in his equipment and didn't risk serious injury or death just to make a sponsor happy.
Novel idea...how about contacting Scott and asking him?
Dries Visser recommends the two bladed Rage on plains game except Zebra. He also stated the animal needs to be broadside or very slightly quartering away.
Not aware what his position is regarding buff, however I'm pretty sure its a heavy arrow tipped with a strong fixed-blade head.
Everyone should just admit that expandables are great broadheads...........for broadside, thin skinned, small animals.
I dought some of these guys care. The get a sponsor and they use the sponsors produce. They are probably not the caliber bowhunter who knows the difference. Many go their entire lives shooting 2 or 3 heads and never learn what good looks like or how it performs. Rage will likely impress if all you ever shot was thunderhead or Muzzys. And if it's the only mechanical you ever try you will never know their in the bottom of the mechanical catagory. Once again, a great benifit of living in the sweet home state...not uncommon to kill animals with 5 to 10 different type broadheads every year. You find out what is best pretty quick thatway.
I am with Pat. I wouldn't think a PH would allow it. I am not a Rage hater either. I will just stick with the VPA heads I use.
TBM,
I often wonder how you fit your ego in front of your computer screen? I promise you that Scott Shultz has forgotten more about archery than you will ever know. As far as how good of a bowhunter he is.... you seem to be the only person on this site that tries to validate your bowhunting prowess constantly by reminding us how awesome you are and how unbelievably difficult it is to kill anything in the south with a bow.
I work with guys that have 20 years of experience... and I work with others that have one day of experience for 20 years. Don't confuse experience with repetition. The main reason the paid pros are at a disadvantage in gaining experience is the almost have to shoot the same eguipment for extended periods of time. You normally will not see them with 3 to 5 different brands of broadheads in the ir quiver at the same time. They might get lots of experience hunting different animals but the guy at the shop who shoots 100 different bows has more experience and the southern slammer has more experience with broadheads.. that my friend I can gaurntee you that.
The reason they don't have half dozen different broadhead in their quiver at the same time is because they are professionals with equipment fine tuned for maximum efficiency.
Just like you don't see pro golfers playing with a bag full of balls they fished out of a pond or found in the woods.
Bowfreak, You are correct that my assumptions about how this hunt went down are just that...Assumptions. I don't know him personally. So, you are correct that it may be unfair to assume what exactly they had in mind on this hunt.
That said, I stand by my assessment that is ill advised and unethical in my opinion, to bow hunt an animal as large and heavily boned as a cape buffalo with any of the current expandables on the market today. I have been on a lot of cape buff hunts, and I have seen many more buffs taken from our camp as well as others over the years. I don't know ANY PH that is certified and experienced in bow hunting dangerous game that will allow the client to use an expandable broadhead on such a hunt. Given their poor penetrating performance alone, they are just too unreliable and therefore dangerous to use on these kind of animals. BTW, I am not against using expandables...I think they have their place in some applications, and I personally love them for turkeys.
This is not just my opinion based on my own experiences..... This is the shared opinion of every African PH and Outfitter that I know that hunts dangerous game. If this guy's PH endorsed it, I completely disagree, for the safety of the hunting party if nothing else. But, as for their intentions, you are correct is stating that I don't know for sure.
Pat, congrats on a great bull...! The correct set up along with perfect shot placement makes all the difference.
Reguardless of the reason you only have one type head in your quiver, you are limited in your experience if you keep thatas a pattern ..or only kill a couple animals a year. We tried a lot down here and I have always felt like the southern bowhunters were left out and disrespected by not taking advantage of our resources and knowledge bank. Back when Muzzys were at the height of popularity a buddy of mine who had used Simmons and tested Snuffers made a switch to Muzzys. The very first deer he shot with it was a perfect heart shot. I helped him track it because he didn't find much blood on the initial search. The blood was scarce, and we kept looking at one another, both thinking the same thing...we were use to the bigger heads. At one point we contemplated leaving her overnight...ON A HEART SHOT. After roughly 10 times the time it would have took to track her if she had been hit with the bigger heads we finally found her. He never shot another deer with those tiny heads. I had a similar experience about the same time with a 2 blade Vortex. It was the huge 2 3/4 model, but hide slip covered the hole. Double lung...no blood. Not at first anyway. She fell out in a field and I practically fell over her on the way to the truck. I never shoot 2 blades because of that.
None of you know what he was really hunting with. He could have simply done the "cutaways" with the rage head and used a real head for the buff. I haven't viewed the show but will bet it was a SA buffalo hunted above the red line so it was more like target practice than a real buffalo hunt which might allow a stunt like using a rage on a buff to happen. Again, it was a TV show so anything could have happened and once edited no one would know what actually went down. I wouldn't give it a second thought.
This time last year a guy was considering which head was beast for elk and against most advice he went with rage...he hit a rib and didn't get penetration and recovered the elk but lost the meat. I didn't get full pass on a Turkey with them shooting 70 pounds. I wouldn't think anyone would consider shooting a cape with them. There a good head for small stuff buy anything above 100 pounds there are a lot better heads.
Archery95 - I've personally shot a WT doe with a slicktrick which center punched the heart that went 225 yds. Complete pass through. Anyway, back to the subject...
One would have to have a death wish to shoot a cape with a rage!
There is a video on FB of Scott shooting a cape buff at 90 yards in 2010. In that video, they do a cut away with a close up of the broadhead...a Silver Flame.
I think Ken Moody has the most logical post on this whole thread. We have no idea what he really hunted with. There is a good chance that he shot a sturdy 2 blade.
While I agree with the general consensus that using mechanicals on dangerous game is ill advised to say the least I just disagree with the "pile on the TV guy mentality" which is so common on this and every other bowhunting forum.
as far as Rage is concerned - I honestly don't care anymore... Been there - done that. Brilliant marketing trumps quality any day of the week-to the masses. Let the masses have what they want.
+1 Jack Harris
Bread and circuses
Like Ken Moody said we don' know what happened. However if he did shoot the buff with a different head and showed a rage later. That is still opening up a can of worms that I feel isn't a good idea.
Tom Miranda has multiple broadheads in his quiver. He said so himself...on Bowsite.
Certain shots, be it distance or angle or animal, he won't take with a rage.
Another Rage thread...isn't this a surprise?
It was a Rage hypodermic - I asked and that is what they told me.
it really did a # on that bull.
LTG 11 beat me to it.
I remember Tom saying on here that he uses different broadheads for different situations.
I wager money that only Scott and the guys present there know what was used. The public will be led to believe it was a sponsored product. That's what pays the bills.
Also, on another subject. I shot a whitetail buck about six years ago that put a nice Magnus Snuffer paper tuning hole through the center of the heart. I watched him run until he expired (about 8-12 seconds). He travelled 150 yards. Twice as far as the farthest double lung shot for me. I was ground level, which makes all the difference. All heart, no lungs at all.
x-man,
Don't want to hi-jack the thread, but you cannot shoot a deer in the heart (broadside or quartering away) and not get some lungs. The heart sits in between the two lungs in the lower part of the chest.
Be very careful when you field dress a deer and take the lungs and heart out intact sometime and you will see. I have the pictures to prove it, and it was a great educational moment for me. Hopefully this will help.
Happy hunting.
Sure you can hit heart and no lungs from ground level. Pic shows it clearly.
Killed several deer that went a good ways with heart shots and very poor blood trails. My theory is the pump is shut down, valves, chambers compromised. The blood stays put in the system and the organs get to use every last bit of oxygen in it while it is there, just muscle movement will circulate it a bit, just enough. Artery hits the blood is drawn out and pumped from the system fast. Organs are nearly immediately deprived of oxygen, mostly the brain which uses it fast.
The knife in the pic is over the top of the spine, lungs clearly visible and the heart is the blueish organ just below and forward in the lungs, above the brisket (the ribcage removed from the spine and folded back connected to the brisket, diaphragm laid back as well) You can hit the heart dead center and not touch a lung. Even if a lung(s) are hit it is a peripheral hit, very thin sections with the fewest vessels.
Site is screwy tonight, double post AND the pic I had never loaded.....
OK, hopefully this is the pic....
Knife through the middle of the heart (heel of the handle from straight on) top knife on the spine. Centered the heart, no lungs. Certainly different angles from a tree, very possible from the ground.
Also points out where the spine is so deep in the chest, very much over mid chest (especially forward) and you're in the spine, top third and you're over it.... in "The Void...." bbwaa ha ha haaaa.... (cue spooky organ music....)
Organ music... get it???? =D
"Killed several deer that went a good ways with heart shots and very poor blood trails."
I've not recovered heartshot deer til the next day as it was so little blood and whitetails can run much further on a heartshot than a double lung....
Ditto Genesis as per very little blood on a heart shot.
Last year's mule deer about ran me over, and covered about 150 or so yards full out...I mean FULL before he started doing cartwheels, and somersaults, and maybe a handspring or two.
The only significant blood we found was from when the turning over and over slung it out of his nostrils and mouth. It left a very wide field of spray, then.
...and what that has to do about a guy shooting a Cape Bufallo with a Rage,...I have no idea. Sorry. (Did enjoy an explanation of why animals may run farther in a heart shot than a double lung shot, though.)
Most rage threads have a good hijacking coming to them..... =D
I did some testing on a water buff hunt...and the only way I can reason a Rage kills a buff is quartering away behind the rib cage....even then it has to go through a lot of animal. Or maybe the Hamblaster.....
TBM staes:
"We tried a lot down here and I have always felt like the southern bowhunters were left out and disrespected"
dude, you have been waging a daily battle for a year now to make sure that trend continues.
Does it really matter about it being a Rage ? I think the real topics of conversation would be Arrow weights and Spine stiffness. If the poundage is high enough,and the arrow weight is heavy enough, The KE is the outcome,not the Broadheads. If the arrow recipe is super heavy with high poundage,it doesn't really matter what's skrewed on the shaft. So a guy shoots a cape with a Rage, AWESOME . The heads are reliable,I've used them for 8 years, shot alot of deer with them. Never had a single problem with deployment. So technically, what is the point of this conversation, that a rage shouldn't of killed a buffalo? Why wouldn't it? If the recipes are correct,it's going in deep,and cutting stuff. Right?
I know very little about the new Rage Heads. However the ones I shot in 2009 I wouldn't want to shoot at any heavy boned animal.
On deer the blades would bend very easy, the razor tip would fold easy. I would think on a heavy boned animal you wouldn't be getting a good cut if you smacked a rib bone on entrance.
In my eyes if he shot the animal with a Rage it was foolish. A very dangerous place to be for himself the trackers and PH. If he shot it with another head but due to the sponsors (Rage) they show footage of the broadheads in his quiver. That would give future consumers false info that the head is adequate for heavy boned animals.
I think they have a place in todays hunting world but they also have places they shouldn't be used as well.
I guess Chuck Adams is one of the unfortunate ones as his equipment hasn't changed much over the years. I could only imagine what he could have done with multiple BH's and Bows at his finger tips. LOL!!!! I love this site. It is always good for a laugh.
Although I prefer fixed blades, I have used Rage on African plains game (Kudu, Warthog and Jackal) and had no issues.
I have personally bow hunted approx 25 Aus Water buff and been around many more bow kills and will not use or recommend Rage on these animals.
(Have to include that I have never used or seen Rage used on Water buff)
1- I have never hunted cape buff or any African animal, never had the desire or money to do so. 2-I have never shot a Rage-never had the desire to do so as my current b-h works just fine. I also have not one thing against them. 3-I have been involved in many television shows and videos. I know for a fact, what you see may not be even close to what actually took place. 4- I believe Ken Moody nailed it perfectly.
Did not see the show, but have doubts about any P H letting a client use a rage on buff. Was this a wild buffalo or on a south African game farm, there is one hell of a lot of difference. I should post some photos of buffalo hide and ribs. I don't think a rage could make the trip without being broken. we don't allow rage heads on elk hunts because of past experience,broken blades broken points ,lack of penetration on angled shoots
Did not see the show, but have doubts about any P H letting a client use a rage on buff. Was this a wild buffalo or on a south African game farm, there is one hell of a lot of difference. I should post some photos of buffalo hide and ribs. I don't think a rage could make the trip without being broken. we don't allow rage heads on elk hunts because of past experience,broken blades broken points ,lack of penetration on angled shoots
Wow! Folks can get really passionate about appropriateness of archery tackle for different kinds of game. Know that TV shows often don't depict the entire story when it comes to a hunt, harvest or conditions. Have taken a number of wild bovines including a few Cape Buffalo with archery gear. Their massive body structure and dense tissue requires heavy arrows with stout solid steel broadheads to be reasonably assured of penetrating deep into the body cavity. That combined with superb senses and legendary tenacity makes them especially difficult and dangerous to bowhunt.
Can someone kill a Cape Buffalo with a Rage -- anything is possible, but experience in hunting these beasts fills me with doubt that it can be done consistently. Bowhunting is not as accepted world-wide as it is here in the U.S. and sometimes all it takes a malfunctioning mechanical on a dangerous game animal to bring the public wrath (not to mention your PH) on bowhunting. Our sport and the buffalo deserve better. Also, would doubt that using a mechanical on a Cape Buffalo is legal in most countries.'
@Pat, please expand on "the triangle" you referred to in your post.
Are you referring to the forward positioning of the vitals on African game and the triangle formed by the upper leg bone and scapula?
New term to me.
Thx
