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Fall-away or whisker biscuit? Pros & Con

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Messages posted to thread:
G-Man 23-Sep-08
Holger Danske 23-Sep-08
Russ Koon 23-Sep-08
live2hunt88 23-Sep-08
Timbow 23-Sep-08
BingoFlyer 23-Sep-08
buglemaster 23-Sep-08
Charlie Rehor 23-Sep-08
BGbasbhat 23-Sep-08
Shawnyd25 23-Sep-08
Spike Bull 23-Sep-08
x-man 23-Sep-08
RLong 23-Sep-08
will-bowhunt-forfood 24-Sep-08
Spike Bull 24-Sep-08
Bowmin 24-Sep-08
Top Pin 24-Sep-08
kennelboy 24-Sep-08
pminaz 24-Sep-08
longbeard 24-Sep-08
WindyCityKen 24-Sep-08
Al 24-Sep-08
Spike Bull 25-Sep-08
Al 25-Sep-08
Brotsky 25-Sep-08
Al 25-Sep-08
x-man 25-Sep-08
x-man 25-Sep-08
Clark 25-Sep-08
recurve 25-Sep-08
RUPE 25-Sep-08
Spike Bull 25-Sep-08
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From: G-Man Date: 23-Sep-08
I have always shot fall-away or flipper rests. I see tons of people using the whisker bicuit. I would like some insight on the pros and cons of the fall-away rest and the whisker biscuit. Comments please!

From: Holger Danske Date: 23-Sep-08
Wouldn't switch from a drop away to a WB unless you needed better arrow containment. It's a great hunting rest, but there's a slight trade-off in accuracy, it can be a bit noisy when you draw, and if you hunt winter conditions the whiskers can freeze up.

From: Russ Koon Date: 23-Sep-08
I like the WB for hunting. It does wear the fletching a bit, so for my target shooting and 3D I usually shoot a dropaway. Only takes a few minutes and a short fine tuning session to switch between the two when season is near (doing that today), and I like to check the flight with BH's at that time anyway.

IMO, can't beat the WB for hunting. The full-capture feature, quiet operation, ruggedness, all are excellent features for hunting.

From: live2hunt88 Date: 23-Sep-08
ive used both. can't go wrong with either. if you use a wb ive found the 2" blazers work best in them. right now im shooting a trophy ridge drop away tho

From: Timbow Date: 23-Sep-08
A total containment dropaway will do everything a WB will do only much better and way more forgiving.

From: BingoFlyer Date: 23-Sep-08
I have shot both, when I bought my Katera the dealer talked me into a RipCord giving all the arguments agaist the biscuit as you have read here.

I still have my Reflex BuckSkin with the Whisker Biscuit on it, The BuckSkin/Whisker Biscuit shoots the same over all groups as the RipCord.

I thought this may be because I have shoot the BuckSkin for several years so I swithched rest putting the Whisker biscuit on the Katera, same sizes groups (4-3/8" @ 50 yards and less than 2" @ 20 yares) about as well as I would expect for a 70+ year old.

Torque is a problem with any rest but concider this if hand torque moves the rest 1/16" the string (with the arrow still on it moves a lot more).

I have used the Whisker Biscuit in all types of weather for near 100°F to well below zero, sun and rain, snow and freezing rain it has never failed or froze up.

I can think of nothing the the Fall-Away rest can do better than the biscuit, I know when I still shoot 3D I finished ahead of more Fall-Away shooters that what Fall-Away shooters finised ahead of me.

The Whisker Biscuit will be on my Katera when I go Whitetail hunting Oct. 1st.

From: buglemaster Date: 23-Sep-08
BingoFlyer, my sentiments exactly. I also have & shoot both & cant seem to group em any better with either of the 2 fall aways I currently have.I can shoot right with any of my buddies at the range with my WB.Not knocking the droppers, but a guy can generally pick up 2 WB's for the cost of 1 fallaway.As for tuning ease & setting em up, the WB wins hands down, & they are bullet proof!

From: Charlie Rehor Date: 23-Sep-08
I'm with Timbow. I have shot both but The dropaways with containment are my choice. My 2 bows have Vital Gear rests.

From: BGbasbhat Date: 23-Sep-08
The fewer moveable parts, the less that can go wrong when hunting. That is pretty much the sole reason I use the Whisker Bisquit and Hostage rests over drop aways.

Some would say I lose accuracy with the WB; but I'm shooting kill zones every time at 60 yards. Perfection is perfection; but I'm not shooting anything past 60.

Just like in rifle shooting, If I'm getting 1 inch groups at 100 yards....3 inch groups at 300 yards...I'm not shooting anything past 300 yards, so i'm good. I could spend thousands of dollars bedding, truing, blueprinting, etc. my rifle to hit 1 inch groups at 500 yards; but what's the point besides bragging rights?

I'd rather be a better hunter and shoot at a respectable distance.

From: Shawnyd25 Date: 23-Sep-08
Fall-away for the purpose of accuracy. You can get fall-aways with containment like previously said. Seems like a no brainer to me.

From: Spike Bull Date: 23-Sep-08
I defy anyone to document a difference in accuracy with a WB. I have shot my best score of 300 with 46 Xs with a WB on my hunting bow. I have owned and used at least a half dozen fall aways. All of them are good rests and ALL of them have strengths and weaknesses.

Some are real and some are just percieved. The WB, against everything that most technogeeks have learned about rests, shoots great. Fall aways are NOT neccesarily more accurate. Show me the target shooters who are using them! Those guys are absolutely obsessed with accuracy and I have not seen ANY pro target shooters useing fall aways.

So G-Man, the real answer to your question is......shoot what you like, they all work. Some will suit your style better than others. Our Hooter Shooter makes a half inch hole with five .295" arrows at 20 yards through a WB. Rank beginers make Robin Hoods at 10 yards with brand new equipment at our shop in thier very first half hour of bow shooting THROUGH WBs!

I don't have anything to do with WB, no ownership, no sponsorship, no friendships, nothing, I just get sick of people who have NO IDEA claiming they are not as good based on what they think might be true.

From: x-man Date: 23-Sep-08
Micheal Braden used a drop away at Vegas this year. He got second, I think that qualifies as a pro ;) He also uses a wrist strap release, and Blazer vanes, so maybe he's a freak of nature as well.

Otherwise, I agree with what spike said. I use a WB on my hunting bow as well.

From: RLong Date: 23-Sep-08
The WB is to me the best hunting rest to date.

From: will-bowhunt-forfood Date: 24-Sep-08
once again as with any debate there are pluses & minuses to each and both rests are very good. I can see advatages to the WB in allot of cases and same for the drop aways. That being said, for my type of hunting , I like the drop away for silent draws and zero contact at launch. As far as moving parts , I have had my original trophy takers for about 6 or 7 years now with no problems = non issue. Good hunting all.

From: Spike Bull Date: 24-Sep-08
x-man, Micheal Braden is an icon! I did not know he did that. I wonder what kind of rest he used. We play his Gene Brehm DVD in the shop at least twice a week but I never noticed any drop aways on it.

determined, I don't like the way the Ripcord drops down if I have to let down and so I prefer the Quad Ultrarest in that type rest. I have a Ripcord I'd sell you reasonable!

From: Bowmin Date: 24-Sep-08
I have used the WB for the last 6 years with great results. Only rest I will use on a "hunting Bow".

From: Top Pin Date: 24-Sep-08
I have used both a WB and a Muzzy drop away. Both are great rests and perform fine, but I still perfer the WB over the drop away. To me it is a no worry rest, But like it was said earlier in this post try both, and use the one that best supports your shooting style and equipment.

From: kennelboy Date: 24-Sep-08
I have tried both as well. Have the WB on my bow for hunting for years now, absolutely the best rest for hunting and you cant go wrong with it. it does wear on the fletching as Russ states and on real cold days can be somewhat noisy. I agree with the rest if your target shooting or 3D'ing, fall away is the ticket. but for hunting WB is great.

From: pminaz Date: 24-Sep-08
I never had an arrow fall off my wb I cant say that with other arrow rests

From: longbeard Date: 24-Sep-08
IMO the WB is the best rest for all the reasons stated above...but unlike what Determinedarcher said there are other ways to go...like anything else, you should use what works best for you...but please try it out first

From: WindyCityKen Date: 24-Sep-08
Anytime, any portion of the rest comes into contact with the arrow in flight, there is the possibility that the rest will deviate the flight path of the arrow. This is the case with the WB.

With this being said, the WB is an excellent rest. Minor modifications of the rest, by removing the whiskers that could interfere with the fletching will greatly reduce the possibility of flight deviation. The minute deviation in arrow flight that might be caused by the WB is not going to show up at the impact point, with the distances of the common bow shot.

From: Al Date: 24-Sep-08
OK, I am going to use the math and science theoretical aproach. (emphasis on theoretical)

I believe that if we can negatively affect the flight of the arrow by moving the bow during the shot, then a drop away is more forgiving. For sake of arguement, and rounding off, let's say you have a 27 inch draw length, and a bow with a 7 inch brace height. The arrow is on the STRING for 20 inches of power stroke. As soon as it leaves the string, we can no longer affect it's flight with a drop away. With a full containment, non-drop away rest, we can influence it's flight til it leaves the rest, or for 27 inches of travel. So, the arrow is affected by us, for a third less time with a drop away. (theoretically)

How much difference does this make? I have no idea. How practical is this information? I have no idea. I shoot drop aways. I want all the help I can get.

FWIW

From: Spike Bull Date: 25-Sep-08
No rest contact was the Holy Grail of rest design for decades. Being the Certified Gizmologist that I am, I knew and studied this for years. That is why it took me so long to give the WB a try. I, too, had only a superficial understanding of the dynamics of it at work.

BELIEVE me, I understand much more of the how and why rests should perform for best arrow flight. I do high speed video testing of everything I can get my hands on when I have the camera. It is capable of 17,000fps! We usually run it at about 1000fps becuase we shoot indoors and don't bother with enough mercury vapor lights to go much higher with good quality footage.

(You can easily see the flourescent cieling lights cycling at 60 MH overhead and it affects the video!)

NO rest contact is much more akin to EQUAL-all-around contact than you would guess, so the biscuit works just fine. THAT is the importance of having the correct biscuit! Anybody who tells you that it is all right to use a large biscuit on a small shaft is WRONG! The biscuit MUST fit the shaft to function properly. Otherwise the bottom two fletches hit the biscuit well before the top one and cuase the back of the arrow to jump up and start an unnatural oscillation in the arrow just as it leaves the biscuit.

As far as Al's point, it is valid. However, I believe you need to measure this effect in time not inches. The likelyhood of a shooter to affect the shot with poor follow through IS directly related to how long in time the arrow is on the rest. We are, after all, talking about reaction time. How quickly can you twitch, jerk, slap, clutch, or whatever!?! Fast enough to affect the flight?

ABSOLUTELY, in fact, it is so certain that it doesn't matter what rest you have, drop aways included! THAT is why it is so important to develop a surprise release! Even your trigger finger wrist strap release can be fired "on demand" with back tension! If you are not doing that,along with other good form, then your reaction time is quick enough to affect EVERY arrow from any rest. Not that people are that quick, just that people are that good at ANTICIPATION!

Mosty people set up thier releases incorrectly. If your trigger finger is out straight right before the shot your release is TOO long. Your finger must curl around the trigger so you can slowly apply more and more pressure until it goes off in at least a semi-surprise fashion. JUST like good rifle triggering.

If your release is set very light, it is probably wrong! Much better to set it up as stiff as possible on most so you can "lean into" the trigger a little without fear of a premature...ahh.. release!( sorry!) Then start to squeeze.

If your hand flies away from your face at release, or stays put, you are probably using it wrong! Your objective should be to follow through. The forces should not be off to the side! They should be straight back! A good follow through will have your release hand touching the top of your shoulder because you have pulled with your release hand straight back against the opposing force of your bow hand, which is pushing straight towards the target.

If you do not almost drop the bow after the shot, chances are you are doing it wrong! THIS is where the most clutching, jerking, twitching, and MISSING comes from. Too often we have trouble holding the pin on target (mostly because we are shooting too much weight with improper posture but that is a whole other book!) so we watch for it to look like it is going to cross the bullseye and then we try to slap the trigger at precisely the right moment! Oh yeah, did I mention that we also try to push the arrow into the bullseye at precisely that moment by grabbing the bow and pushing it up, down, sideways, or wherever the bulleye was last! Yeah, that too!

Look, there is more but I'm tired of it and so are you so let me just wrap up with this:

BAD form and technique has WAY more detrimental effect on the majority of shots than any rest ever had! Especially the whisker biscuit, which happens to work very well, even for beginers.

From: Al Date: 25-Sep-08
very good post! wish I had access to that equipment! fun. expensive, but fun!

From: Brotsky Date: 25-Sep-08
I've used both with success. I currently use a QAD Ultra, best of both worlds. Use what you feel comfortable with. Practice will make you shoot good with both.

From: Al Date: 25-Sep-08
Oh, and Spike,

I'm sure your assertatioon regarding time being more relevant than distance is true. And, since I believe the arrow is accelerating while on the string, the last 7" of travel, before leaving the rest, is likely nowhere near the percentage of the total elapsed time, as it is in distance. (but I have absolutely no intention of applyng the nexessary brain power needed to figure THAT out!)

From: x-man Date: 25-Sep-08
Anyone want to see what a true supprise release looks like?

Just go to Archerytalk, click on the "vegas 2008" link, then find the link with the shoot-off video, download that and watch it. If those guys didn't have slings, every one of them would drop their bow on every shot. Some of them even bounce their long stabs on the floor.

From: x-man Date: 25-Sep-08
Oh, and spike, I think it's a Trophy Taker that M. B. is using. You can see it best at the end of the video when it's just him and cousnin Dave.

From: Clark Date: 25-Sep-08
Hostage rest has the full containment without the fletching contact. WB warped my vanes.

From: recurve Date: 25-Sep-08
The best idea is to try both and then decide for yourself rather then listening to opinions and myths as portrayed here.

From: RUPE Date: 25-Sep-08
I loved my WB, but it chews up my fletchings something fierce so I now shoot a drop away.

From: Spike Bull Date: 25-Sep-08
Thanks for the reply x-man!


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Subject: RE: Fall-away or whisker biscuit? Pros & Con

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