Discuss the Bowsite Harness Test 2009
Equipment
Getting back up after the fall should be part of this test, IMO.
Great work on the test, I appreciate your work.
Thanks for the test, Pat. After the Harrisburg Sportsmans show I was seriously considering the Muddy Outdoors harness. I liked how compact it was, ease of use, but the narrow straps concerned me. Think maybe I'll just stick with my SOP Fastback for now.
Well done!
Except I think you should show us how to get back into a stand from the hanging position. If anything we can all enjoy a good laugh:)
I see a bright future in the automobile industry as a crash test dummy:)
Pat, you had a video of your test 4 years ago. Do you have any video of the test from this year? I couldn't find the video on the link you have up there, just the comparisons in the boxes. thanks, Bob
I have been using the SOS system for a few years, I am partial to the rope they use as a choker with the prussic knot, The harness is easy to get on in the dark and there is no pain when you hang from it. I had a treestand strap release on me once and dumped me out about 20' up. I got hurt but not seriously. I wasn't wearing any safety device mainly because all that was available was the belt and I felt that would do more damage to hang from the belt than the fall would. I'm not so sure that that was a fact but it's nice to to have these types of harnesses available now.
I see that it took 4 years for you to work back up to this...Or at least that long for your balls to recover from the last one. hahaha
Glad to see that you learned to test before you leap, and thanks for the tests.
Perhaps some of you guys have suggestions about recovery methods if you do fall? It does seem to leave you safe but then you need to get recovered quickly. Anybody doing some things they will share? How about a knife in a breast pocket that is accessible to cut your self down if needed? Be safe! C
Curious on the 'Attachment to the Tree' comparison between the Protector and the SOP. You stated in the video that they use the same rope and prussic knot solution, but rated the Protector 'Good' and the SOP 'Excellent'. What is the difference?
Side note: (and now I'm just being picky) Did Julie OK your 12' fall test, and if so did she take out any extra life insurance? :) The same test could have been done with your feet ending a foot or two off the ground - with a lot less risk. When we do tree stand safety sessions we do everything about 2 feet off the ground - just in case. Never know when something 'might' happen. And yes - I am being a wuss... :)
~Troy
Pat
These are great video clips -- before I go any further I need to ask, if it's possible, can these video clips be copied and used in Bowhunter Education Classes? Your 'Fall Test' and Point of View camera angle would make a very good instructional tool.
I took the TMA's 'Treestand Safety Instructor Course' this past March and stepping off the tree stand to 'test' or experience the feeling of suspension was one of the objectives of the course. Another was to 'self rescue' or recover back into the tree stand.
Charlie: one thing the Treestand Course teaches and what the TMA video explains (if I remember correctly)is to set the tree stap w/carabiner, or tree line w/prusix high enough abouve you so that you have little if any noticable slack in it. Granted, it can make it a bit difficult to reach down to grab something out of your pack (if kept under the seat). The reason is simply that the higher you adjust the tree stap, the less slack in the tether/lifeline, the easier it is for you to recover/self rescue.
The TMA Instructor team set the lock on stand about 8' above the ground for our evaluations. FYI - whether it's 8' or 12' (it could have been 50) because stepping or rolling off was a bit unnerving. Those of us who followed the instruction no noticable slack were able to self recover with little effort because the platform of the stand was between knee and waist level. Those that sunk farther than waist level had a difficult time in performing the self rescue manuever.
The biggest barrier to self recovering was the safety/support cable on the platform -- a couple of us had 'fun' manuevering around that as we crawled back onto the platform.
Pat - thanks again and I hope your knee recovers quickly.
RH
Pat, I really appreciate your efforts conducting these tests. It is the most important thing a hunter can do for himself and his family. Nobody here deserves to become the poster child for wearing a harness that I have become. With this, I can see several on here taking the time to go ahead and get a harness where before they might not have. Thanks again.
Charlie,
A couple of extra ropes with chokers around the tree in strategic locations to give you a means to grab and maneuver yourself would be helpful for self recovery. They wouldn't have to be long just 4 or 5', enough to grab and pull yourself around to a ladder or back to a stand.
Pat, thank you again.
You and www.bowsite.com will be fully credited for the video.
Suspension trauma can get you within 30 minutes. The key to survival is recovery, deploying the contraption they're calling the Suspension Relief Device and/or moving your legs like you're pedalling a bicycle.
Thanks again.
Safe travels.
R
Pat, well done and very informative for ALL hunters using a treestand. I'll pass it on, and again, thank you!
Rich
Pat,
Have you had any dealings with products from TrophyLine USA, like the ARMOURLITE SAFETY HARNESS?
Thanks for providing this information, I was also strongly considering the Muddy products and will look towards others in the test.
Thanks
Pat,
Good tests and write ups.
As a Bow Ed instructor, I throw myself off the stand and the ladder about 30 times a year for our field courses. I can appreciate the placement and types of straps for certain.
Good job, hope your knee gets OK.
Garo
Charlie - check out the Ameristep Extraction kit. it works great and should be used with every treestand.
Pat, thanks for doing the tests. Hopefully people will realize how easy these vests are to use and always use them. Glad you did the retest of the new HSS system. I had bought the new model after seeing they fixed the straps to protect what a guy values most.
Hope you are 100% for your africa trip.
Pat, I was wondering if the stitching on the SOP gave way from the fall. I'm talking about the daisy chained stitched looped tether that goes from the harness to the tree.
A note regarding the strain relief stitched into the lanyard. Once the stitching breaks to utilize the strain relief, you are supposed to replace the lanyard. If the lanyard is part of the harness you would replace the entire harness.
Pat, it's my understanding that the safety stitching on the tethers will begin to pull out gradually once more than 300# of force is applied (I hope I said that right).
Earlier I mentioned attending a TMA Treestand Safety Course earlier this yesr. One guy in the class I attended weighed close to 300#. He stepped of the stand a bit too abruptly popping all but one row of the stitching in the tether. (Photo below).
Thanks for putting your nads on the line for us,LOL! Really though, this kind of thing was needed to show how the safety straps work.
milnrick, I was just going to make the same comments you did. I too am an instructor and we have hung many students just so they can get the feel. We insist that the tether is high enough so the can't fall below the stand. Its no problen to just swing back over into the seat. As far as reaching your pack just losen the rope and get what you need then tighten. Pat, All we use in our classes and youth mkentoring hunts are SOP harnesses. If there is any room for improvement it would be to shorten the tether. It is difficult to get it up high enough on the tree to allow the person to not fall below the stand. Not sure if there is enough room for all the folds but I've thought about contaction SOP myself but maybe you could pass this along. SS
What is the point of jumping out from 12 feet? Just curious really. Couldn't you get the same data from a jump leaving your feet a foot off the ground and subjecting yourself to much less potential damage should a catastrophic failure occur? Gravity and acceleration are the same with a 1 foot drop with a stand 2-3 feet off the ground and a 1 foot drop 12 feet off the ground.
Your ankles will thank you... Maybe your neck too.
PAT
As usual good show old boy
the Biggest problem is getting hunters to use them
Any ideas as to how better to get their attention.
Maybe some one should film a fatal accident aftermath. i saw on in Ill Man was found by his 16 year old daughter No vest or belt. Next day I drove by and could See fire truck track in the Iowa cornfield bandages and EMT Medical Trash etc,
Tink
I think these tests that Pat does with the safety harnesses is some of the best material that the Bowsite produces. These tests truly show that these harnesses work and that you can depend on them in the field. I know sometime ago when I first came on the Bowsite most guys never used a harness and I actually hunted from the ground most of the time until someone introduced me to the SOP system. I never have fallen (thank God) but I have lost my balance before and the SOP stopped me from going over the side. Tree stand Harnesses sure have come along way!!!
What is the difference between the Fastback Lite and Fastback Deluxe? I seeem to find plenty of the deluxe models but the test was done with a Lite.
Sorry for all the questions but I'm trying to make sure I get the right model. I see BP has the Deluxe and then just a Fastback model. The Fastback model is not listed as a "Lite"? HOwever it looks just like the one in the test? Are there three models or just the two?
thanks
I see fromt he Summit site they only list the Fastback and the Deluxe. If I recall the package used in the video clearly said "Lite"? Hum??
Well, after watching you do these tests, I was glad you got your buffalo---at least your b***s still work.
OUCH!...
Pat,
After speaking with Summit both via email and phone I have two answers...LOL LOL.......
Apparently there is no such beast as the "Lite" anymore? Actually everyone at Summit was rather perplexed when I asked about that model. Someone did finally say it was the old model and that there are now only two models. The Deluxe (with the pockets) and the Fastback...
However, There are still several variables that make me think there are actually numerous models out there, even from the manufacture.
One response stated "The Fastback Lite had a cloth backing with the wide belt and the Fastback standard has the Cloth backing and does not have the wide belt (1” ¾ webbing belt)." Sounds kina backward that the "lite" would have the larger belt?
A second response via phone stated, "There are only two models the Deluxe and the fastback however the newer fastbacks have a mesh panel instead of cloth." Nowthis sounds more like a "Lite" model?
Who knows? As for me it really does not matter what it is called I just want the Non-pocket (non-deluxe), mesh back model.
SO AT THE END OF THE DAY WHATS THE BEST ON TO BUY ? WITH ALL THE SAFTY NEEDED GOING UP THE TREE OR DOWN I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW
