Contributors to this thread:
Deprivation permits wrong?
Wanted to see how people felt about deprivation permits. I grew up with my Grandfather and father and uncles who farm , so I know about crops how this is a farmers livelihood. We have some farm fields and a few deer around work. The people who farm the land have gotten permits and I saw about 2-3 deer just shot and left in a field last week. It makes me sick. I guess in Georgia you do not have to recover the deer. I don't understand someones thinking like this and blatant waste of wildlife. If they are that worried about crop damage then they should let more hunters hunt the land. They lease it for hunting to about 3 guys I think and they are mainly horn hunting. I just think they should shoot a few more during the season if it is that big of a problem and then at least use them. Just need to express my opinion.
I understand both sides Steve. Like you, I agree it is a terrible waste of venison, but we have to face the fact that some people just have no use for deer. It's food off the farmer's table when their crops are being damaged, I suppose I would get angry too if the deer were after my family's money source. We also have to understand that alot of farmers have been burnt by less than ethical hunters and have a bad taste in their mouth towards all of us because their actions. Have you tried talking to the farmer and offering your services to lower the doe population? I know in my state, a farmer can get the tags and designate someone to do the culling for them, not sure about Ga though.
Illinois too and it's going on NOW! I hate it, but loss of hunting land to the normal 'Joe Blow' has caused this. Land tied up all 12 months and only gets used for about 3 to 4 weeks of deer season by the leasers/owners/outfitters. Few doe get taken and that leads to over population QUICKLY every spring.
Depredation permits may be a necessary tool but IMO should be used sparingly and only when it is would be EXTREMELY difficult to harvest enough deer using regular tags. Fortunately at least one CO agrees, our local guy. A farmer friend of mine tried to get approval a few years back and they came out to inspect the damage and said it wasn't bad enough to justify depredation permits and they should be able to kill enough deer in season to handle their "problem". I say that's a guy doing his job right. As long as they're not handed out for the asking I can understand the occasional need for them.
Trouble is, sometimes they are handed out too freely. And that takes away hunting opportunities.
Sometimes we hunters are our own worst enemy. Hunters that are ONLY after mature bucks don’t meet the goals a farmer had in mind when allowing hunting to begin with. A farmer that turns down hunters willing to kill several doe to “earn a buck” shouldn’t get special permits. If he’s allowing hunting and is not having his goals met (through either philosophy or skill issues) he just sees hunting as not being effective for his problem.
Of course there are many hunters that could help with this, but if his hunters are not then he’ll take whatever steps are needed to get the job done.
Have a neighbor that lost about $400,000 to deer in crop damage per year. He would let hunters in but they only shot bucks which was little help. Opened it up to hunt does only and no one showed up to hunt. He tried to get deprivation permits but I think was unsuccessfull. Finally he high fenced his land, got all the deer out and now there are no deer on his property. Now the deer are just other people's problem.
It seems there wouldn't be as much of a problem if hunters shot more does but there just doesn't seem to be interest amoung the general hunting public.
$400K out of a business is just too much money to lose. I have no problem with them.
I have a real hard time believing deer could cause $400K a year in damages. Just how many acres does your neighbor farm and what is he growing? I was raised on a farm, live in rural America, and work in the agriculture industry, I am not anti-farmer by any means, but any farmer that claims that kind of damage in a year is full of it. I bet one could find twice as much loss due to his poor farming habits than what the deer cause.
Yea, I am not saying that farmers should not protect their investment but like STEELJ said, before they give the permits out they should determine if hunting could solve most of the problem. In this case here I think the landowner should tell the few guys that lease it that they need to shoot some does. I mean we can shoot like 11 or 12 here in Georgia and I know I can always find someone who needs the meat.
It is a real problem. My neighbor is in on a lease in LA. They shoot plenty of does and can't keep up. The farmer was there in early summer when we made a hog hunt and he was telling a story about how the deer had ruined the soybean crop. The beans sprout and at just the right time the deer come in overnight and clip the young stems to the dirt. The beans resprout but the deer never let them get higher than a couple of inches. Farmer said luckily he had crop insurance that covered it.
In cases like this, the states that only give buck tags until you take a doe seemed to have exercised some management skill and foresight with a little wisdom. Seems in cases like this that tag program would help. No buck tags until you take a doe or 2.
Just down the road from me a farmer had between 30 and 50 deer per evening in one of his soybean fields. He recieved a dep. permit. After three nights culling five nice bucks were taken off the field, three left to rot. Our Ministry will not allow does to be shot until after Aug. 15 to give the fawns a chance to survive whitout mom. This is to apease anti-hunters.
After the three days of culling you can no longer see a deer in that field in daylight. It did not take long for the deer to adapt. They are magnificent/incredible survivors.
Yea, they started like a month ago and we still had does dropping fawns. I may be wrong but it is my understanding that in Georgia they are not supposed to shoot bucks with the permits, only does, but it probably happens. We were watching 2 fawns down the road a few weeks ago that were staying in this clearing everyday with no sign of mom. We think she might have got popped. This land I am talking about has no livestock to worry about and only about 1 house so it would be easy to just let more people hunt it or at least tell the few that hunt the land they need to shoot a few more does. Oh well, just me griping I guess.
They are called "Depredation" permits. It is unfortunate to the extent that our DNR issues them NOW and the permit holder can kill a Doe with fawns. I have never seen much support for them by hunters but farmers who dont allow hunters on their property love the damn permits....Its deer killing time 365 days a year for those yahoo's and the SOB's can use rifles(7mm Rem. Mags for example) that are not normally allowed in the regular gun season......Jeff
Personally I don't have a problem with this practice. There are far too many deer in my state. I do not understand why they won't let you take the meat though. I guess scavengers have to eat too. I know lots of people who igore that rule and at least take the straps.
This problem will only get worse until more land gets opened up to hunting, which includes the suburbs. And, when the mentality of deer hunters change from 'trophy' hunting, to 'management' hunting.
The land locked areas in and around the suburbs are protecting deer and allowing them to increase their population numbers exponentially. This is creating huge problems around Virginia (my home state) and I would guess alot of other states. Deer don't seem to mind traveling to feed and simply spend their days in peoples back yard woodlots and move to the adjacent fields to feed at night. No one hunts them (except passing cars when they cross roads!) and they double their numbers with the annual fawn crop. As someone posted earlier,,they are amazingly adaptable creatures!
Add to this, the fact that fewer hunters, at least around here, want to deal with the effort to shoot 'just an old doe'. They all want to have their photos with big antlered bucks (OK, I admit, me too!) But, this is adding to the population problems we are seeing now.
Solution,,,,shoots more does and open up more land to hunters. ~Steve
Bust a doe! Here's my contribution~
S.C. Nice seeing you do your part
Here in CT we have an orchard that is huge and this borders a large state park that is illeagal to hunt. He has unlimited Damage permits. A friend helps him and he hunts all year long....they shoot 50 deer a year.....
If the farmer catches you waiting for a buck......that is your last hunt....
the deer the farmer shoots get thrown over the side in a pit to "keep the yotes well fed"
Here in Central Washington the ranchers get deprevation tags for elk. I don't know why since there ranches consist of sage brush. Anyway they aren't allowed to sell the tags but they are charging a tresspass fee anywhere from $4000 to $10,000. This hunt starts August 1st and runs thru February. Two years ago a 425 B&C bull was killed. WDFW just turns a blind eye to the whole thing. Kind of a sore subject around here.
I love to shoot does and sometimes do two at a time.
I think the farmers should be able to get permits when they are needed. Here where I live it is no problem to get the permits, just a quick trip to the office at Unicorn Lake. They are definately needed sometimes. I can understand farmers not wanting hunters on their property.
Thats what I'm talking about Shuteye!!!!!
Maybe that farmer that lost 400 grand was growing POT!
"Deprivation"....Means scarcity, deficiency, etc.
"Depredation"....Means damage, ravages, devastation, etc.
Those are depredation permits. Just FYI, no offense intended.
Here they're called "Out of Season Deer Damage Control Permits". They're issued at the discretion of the district wildlife biologist. The shooters can choose to hunt at night, over bait, using any weapon, etc. There are really NO restrictions, up to the numbers limit as decided by the Biologist.
I both hunt AND farm. Even though I'd like to see the problem handled differently (public hunting access for example), the out of season permits are not likely to go away. Basically I think what it boils down to is this.... our DNR is responsible to manage the deer herd. If the DNR didn't offer some kind of option to relieve the commercial ag operators (farmers), who can show significant damage, I suppose the DNR could be subject to litigation from the ag operators. This is probably the cheapest "out" for the DNR.
Still it's bothersome to see them being picked off by centerfire rifles in August and September. The shooters can keep the deer carcasses, but are not allowed to keep any antlers. If they do shoot an antlered buck, they're obligated to forfeit the head to the DNR.
My only option has been to make my own farm as attractive a sanctuary as possible for the local deer herd. So when my neighbor gets the OOS permits (as he has many times) at least part of the herd will have a place to hide out.
As elkstuffer's post stated, in Washington state it's big business and 10K get's you in. I have a good friend who is privy to the details scouting tapes etc. There are world class elk on and around the Hanford Nuclear Reservation and the bordering ranches are where this goes on.
There is a farmer in my area that holds an annual hunt on his property. There are about 20 guys or so that he basically hand picks through invitation and interview only and each year each hunter usually takes more than one deer on his farmers permit. He even has his farm hands take a wagon out dropping apples and another wagon out dressing and loading deer and labeling it for each hunter so everyone gets to take home what they shot. I’ve always wished I could get in on this hunt but family and close friends fill up any openings very quickly.
I definitely agree that if more hunters would get past their own ego’s and get over this “Big Buck only” mentality that things would change.