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Is it real or is it Photoshop?

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Messages posted to thread:
nov3 15-Oct-08
jtb1967 15-Oct-08
BigWoods 15-Oct-08
Blaine County 15-Oct-08
kellyharris 15-Oct-08
nov3 15-Oct-08
goober 15-Oct-08
Knife2sharp 15-Oct-08
sticksender 15-Oct-08
5150bowhunter 15-Oct-08
Bow Crazy 15-Oct-08
TradTech 15-Oct-08
leftybearfan 15-Oct-08
hoyt1191 15-Oct-08
TradTech 15-Oct-08
joshuaf 15-Oct-08
2madjacks 15-Oct-08
HARDBALL 15-Oct-08
sipe 15-Oct-08
Timbow 15-Oct-08
Still_Learnin' 15-Oct-08
Ole Coyote 15-Oct-08
Hollywood 15-Oct-08
kurtinozaukee 15-Oct-08
Boone@work 16-Oct-08
joshuaf 16-Oct-08
ryanrc 16-Oct-08
guidermd 16-Oct-08
Man of Stihl 16-Oct-08
moleshaver 16-Oct-08
elmer 16-Oct-08
Hoyt Shooter 16-Oct-08
Ironbow 16-Oct-08
Will 17-Oct-08
bowhunter_mh 17-Oct-08
Mike the Cheesehead 17-Oct-08
CJ 17-Oct-08
wisheds 17-Oct-08
mike@optionpc.com 17-Oct-08
guidermd 17-Oct-08
BigWoods 18-Oct-08
guidermd 18-Oct-08
Shaft2Long 19-Oct-08
Grounblind 19-Oct-08
Apprentice 19-Oct-08
SERBIANSHARK 19-Oct-08
SERBIANSHARK 19-Oct-08
SERBIANSHARK 19-Oct-08
SERBIANSHARK 19-Oct-08
G5s 19-Oct-08
RUPE 19-Oct-08
G5s 20-Oct-08
BigWoods 20-Oct-08
ARO 20-Oct-08
Lowground 20-Oct-08
Muzzy 21-Oct-08
Mike the Cheesehead 21-Oct-08
Mike the Cheesehead 23-Oct-08
SERBIANSHARK 23-Oct-08
Jayson Whittle 24-Oct-08
Mike the Cheesehead 24-Oct-08
Jayson Whittle 24-Oct-08
SERBIANSHARK 24-Oct-08
Ole Coyote 24-Oct-08
Hornseeker 25-Oct-08
Old Hemlock 25-Oct-08
CM Sackett 25-Oct-08
CM Sackett 25-Oct-08
KY Riverrat 26-Oct-08
guidermd 27-Oct-08
BADDDwithaBOW 27-Oct-08
DAVE1275 27-Oct-08
Mike the Cheesehead 27-Oct-08
guidermd 28-Oct-08
Mike the Cheesehead 28-Oct-08
mn_archer 28-Oct-08
Mike the Cheesehead 28-Oct-08
mn_archer 28-Oct-08
highPlains 28-Oct-08
guidermd 28-Oct-08
Mike the Cheesehead 28-Oct-08
HACKMAN 28-Oct-08
mn_archer 28-Oct-08
Griz34 28-Oct-08
guidermd 29-Oct-08
SERBIANSHARK 29-Oct-08
mn_archer 29-Oct-08
Mike the Cheesehead 29-Oct-08
Bambi Killer 29-Oct-08
Mike the Cheesehead 29-Oct-08
guidermd 29-Oct-08
Spike 29-Oct-08
cdnclub45 29-Oct-08
Spike 29-Oct-08
guidermd 29-Oct-08
Mike the Cheesehead 29-Oct-08
mn_archer 29-Oct-08
Mike the Cheesehead 29-Oct-08
ridgeruler @ home 29-Oct-08
Bambi Killer 29-Oct-08
Bambi Killer 29-Oct-08
scndwfstlhntng 29-Oct-08
ridgeruler @ home 29-Oct-08
guidermd 29-Oct-08
mn_archer 29-Oct-08
guidermd 30-Oct-08
ridgeruler @ home 30-Oct-08
Mike the Cheesehead 30-Oct-08
guidermd 30-Oct-08
Mike the Cheesehead 30-Oct-08
guidermd 30-Oct-08
guidermd 31-Oct-08
Mike the Cheesehead 31-Oct-08
Mike the Cheesehead 31-Oct-08
Mike the Cheesehead 31-Oct-08
Mike the Cheesehead 31-Oct-08
Mike the Cheesehead 31-Oct-08
Mike the Cheesehead 31-Oct-08
Mike the Cheesehead 31-Oct-08
Mike the Cheesehead 31-Oct-08
Mike the Cheesehead 31-Oct-08
Mike the Cheesehead 31-Oct-08
Mike the Cheesehead 31-Oct-08
Mike the Cheesehead 31-Oct-08
guidermd 31-Oct-08
guidermd 31-Oct-08
Mike the Cheesehead 31-Oct-08
gecl 31-Oct-08
Mike the Cheesehead 31-Oct-08
Bou'bound 31-Oct-08
mn_archer 31-Oct-08
highPlains 31-Oct-08
mn_archer 31-Oct-08
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From: nov3 Date: 15-Oct-08

nov3's embedded Photo

Real or not?

From: jtb1967 Date: 15-Oct-08
My vote is photoshop. The deer appears to be transparent in some places.

From: BigWoods Date: 15-Oct-08
No, that's real. Its the phantom deer of Buckshot Lake. It's been haunting those woods for years!

From: Blaine County Date: 15-Oct-08
Either it is a ghost-deer or it is photoshopped.

From: kellyharris Date: 15-Oct-08
FAKE

From: nov3 Date: 15-Oct-08
Do ghost deer actually bleed? I don't know why it looks transparent. I'm suspicious.

Terrible penetration if real.

Background looks like north woods. Is there anywhere up north where bowseason is in on Sept 20th?

Would be a heck of an advertisement for Cuddeback if real.

From: goober Date: 15-Oct-08
Awful big corn pile?!?!?!?!?!? I got this same picture in an e-mail this morning went back through all of the "forwards" to the original sender out of Montgomery Alabama. Who knows where these things start... But it is a cool picture!

From: Knife2sharp Date: 15-Oct-08
I vote "real". I have pics from my trail cams where racks are transparent. I've only noticed this on the digital cameras, not 35mm cameras. I'll post one when I find one.

From: sticksender Date: 15-Oct-08

sticksender's embedded Photo

Probably real. I've gotten that transparency effect in trail cam pics myself, when flash is used. Like this one, where the fawn's head looks transparent. Possibly due to the flash strobing.

From: 5150bowhunter Date: 15-Oct-08
One thing that might make it appear more real is the deer that was coming in to the "Captain Corn" pile is hauling ass out of there. I have no problem with baiting either if it's legal!! I bet BouBound will score him at 155, awesome!

From: Bow Crazy Date: 15-Oct-08

Bow Crazy's embedded Photo

Could the trigger speed be that fast? If so, cuddleback really has something going for them.

Here is a photo of a transparent buck I ended up shooting last year.

BC

From: TradTech Date: 15-Oct-08
"Terrible penetration if real."

Look at the edge of the brisket near the opposite leg. Looks like it's in the right spot for the exit.

Or....Maybe its just a real long arrow or a thin deer. LOL

From: leftybearfan Date: 15-Oct-08
I take a lot of pictures for local sports teams and have run across transparent spots quite a few times. It usually happens, in my pics at least, with shadowy foreground and bright background.

From: hoyt1191 Date: 15-Oct-08
Is the arrow just starting to come out near the opposite leg? Or am I seeing things.

From: TradTech Date: 15-Oct-08
no, you're not seeing things...unless you're drinking the same clear stuff I'm drinking...

From: joshuaf Date: 15-Oct-08

joshuaf's embedded Photo

Real. I've had that "transparent" effect many times with my trail cameras. Seems to usually coincide with a bright sky behind the subject in the photo.

hoyt1191, I think you're right, that does appear to be a bloody spot on the brisket.

From: 2madjacks Date: 15-Oct-08
Real and fake. Deer is real but the arrow was photoshopped

From: HARDBALL Date: 15-Oct-08
Its real. The story is on AT and I believe it. Above the deers back you can see the motion lines and transparency effect that a trail cam gives with moving animals. The exposure was taken over a couple seconds which is why you see that effect. The arrow was a pass thru shot, as you can see the blood coming out the other side just under the leg. Legit pic.

From: sipe Date: 15-Oct-08
on another site, some Graphics guys analyzed it and determined FAKE based on pixelation change where the deer meets the background. Two picks superimposed.

From: Timbow Date: 15-Oct-08
Sure looks real. Couldn't have been a passthrough though unless he shot it out of the air while it was jumping.

From: Still_Learnin' Date: 15-Oct-08
Who cares. That is an awesome picture!

From: Ole Coyote Date: 15-Oct-08
I have shot a ton of deer and if this is a reaction to a shot I want to know what broadhead was used as the blood seems to be on the outside much to fast?

From: Hollywood Date: 15-Oct-08
I've video'd a lot of kills and watched them in extreme slo-mo.

The pic is accurate for blood-letting.

There's even a hint of shadowing from the blood-letting although hard to confirm, since there's no characteristic bloodlets to compare.

From: kurtinozaukee Date: 15-Oct-08
Ole coyote I shot a doe a few weeks ago with a rage broadhead. She was standing next to a large Oak tree when she was hit and that tree was covered in blood even though she took off immediately after the hit. I would not discredit the photo only because of the blood showing.

In my opinion there is a good chance it is a real photo. Look at the bait pile. I would think that the buck was feeding on the corn, got hit with the arrow, and the camera setup over the corn caught it on film. That does not seem all that far fetched, does it?

From: Boone@work Date: 16-Oct-08
Nobaody mentioned the other deer running off in the photo. I say real!

From: joshuaf Date: 16-Oct-08
Of you guys who think it's fake, I would just like to know, how many of you have actually ever used Photoshop or a similiar graphics/photo manipulation program? I use graphics programs for a living, have been working with them for 12 years now. I've spent countless thousands of hours doing photo manipulation (mostly editing stuff OUT). That is tough enough. Editing stuff IN to a picture, and having it look "real" is very difficult. That picture is real, I guarantee it. I know it's fashionable for everyone to say "Photoshop" when they see a fantastic photo like that, but this one ain't Photoshop, no way. Just a once in a blue moon motion capture coincidence.

From: ryanrc Date: 16-Oct-08
it's real. just go over to archery talk and read all about it. there are also pics of the same deer the week before eating corn off the bait and the hero pic with the teenager and his deer. the broadhead was a rage for you penetration guys. the kill was in wisconsin. i believe they said they sent it into cuddieback but they said it was too graphic to post on their website.

From: guidermd Date: 16-Oct-08
that's a picture of a dead buck laying on the ground imposed over a photo of the woods. the picture was taken by someone standing over a dead buck with an arrow sticking up out of it. anyone who has shot a deer with an arrow knows that blood flows quick, but not quick enough to leave a puddle that big at the exact time of impact, we're talking about a fraction of a second for blood to puddle/pool and saturate deer hair that quick??!! NOT!! a sharp cut on your own arm would take a couple seconds to even start bleeding, let alone leave a blood puddle with blood drops forming a line away from the wound along with a puddle. its a fake. the animal is dead having its picture taken by someone standing over him. he's even got the famous droppy ears of a dead buck. there's no expression on the deer that shows it's being hit, it only shows the typical stone still face of a dead deer. a deer getting impacted has alot of expression in its eyes, opens its mouth, and shows expression in its facial muscles..........this animal is already dead long before this photo was manipulated. its neat, cool, and cute, but its not really taking place. i've video taped 100s of deer getting impacted with an arrow, and everyone of them has lots of facial expressions when taking an arrow, very unlike the the dead stone still face on this deer. legs are positioned like a dead animal as well. the outline of the deer is entirely too defined to have been moving that quick at the time the camera tripped, there would have to be even the slightest bit of distortion, and there isn't. the outline of the deer is entirely too clean to suggest that buck was in motion. the posture of the deer clearly shows it is dead already.

From: Man of Stihl Date: 16-Oct-08
Real...I've shot deer and had puntured lungs blow a lot more blood than that at the point of impact. The deer is jumping with a punctured lung. You can't compare that to a cut on your arm. If you could we'd all die from a pin prick to the finger tip

From: moleshaver Date: 16-Oct-08
I've gotten a pile of cuddeback pictures where it looked like a deer was missing a leg or a horn.

From: elmer Date: 16-Oct-08
when I first saw the thread title i wasn't too sure if it was about hunting!!! especially after the thread about hunting plan D..cup. :0)

From: Hoyt Shooter Date: 16-Oct-08
After reading some above posts explaining the transparency effect, I say real. What also bothered me was the "chopping" effect along the back. If you look closer it seems to be vertebrea. I wonder if it's sick or malnourished. There seems to be some "hollowness" in the upper rump indicating this as well.

From: Ironbow Date: 16-Oct-08

Ironbow's Supporting Link

It is real. Here is the link with the story behind it.

http://carolinasoutdoor.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/6797/Arrow_caught_on_film_by_cuddeb.html#Post6797

From: Will Date: 17-Oct-08
Real or not I dont know... but the transparency, I have seen that in a few pic's myself over the years.

Hard to believe that the cam could be so lucky as to get the arrow like that. Possible and amazing, but who knows.

From: bowhunter_mh Date: 17-Oct-08
I believe the pic is real but if this buck was shot in WI check out the corn pile. I believe WI has a 2 gallon limit. Is that more then 2 gallons on the ground. We are only looking at half the pile or less. I don't want to make trouble, but! Mike

From: Mike the Cheesehead Date: 17-Oct-08
Well guys, I live in Polk County Wisconsin and I know the father and uncle of the guy who shot this buck. The guy's uncle owns a bar and I'm his partner on the bar's pool team.

None of that makes any difference except the fact that we were shooting pool Wednesday night and one of the guys on the team was telling me about this photo and low and behold here it is on the Bowsite.

From what I've been told, it is real and I believe it.

Also, I'm not defending baiting but I don't think we can determine from this photo that there is more than 2 gallons of corn there.

From: CJ Date: 17-Oct-08
I have to say that I have never seen a deer die with it legs in that type of position and I have absolutely never seen a deer die with it's tail straight out like that.

From: wisheds Date: 17-Oct-08
anyone notice the other deer in the background on the far left side of the picture???

From: mike@optionpc.com Date: 17-Oct-08

mike@optionpc.com's embedded Photo

Yet another transparent photo, you can see through this bucks right antler. And I know this pic is real as it came off of one of my deer cams ...

Mike

From: guidermd Date: 17-Oct-08
it looks more and more fake everytime i look at it. very superimposed and can easy fool the novice.

From: BigWoods Date: 18-Oct-08
I've gotta stick with fake. The whole question about arrow trajectory cannot be be explained. HARDBALL said it was a passthru, yet this deer jumps three feet in the air and the arrow is still half way out of the deer. Assuming a 250 feet/sec arrow, there is no way that deer could get into that position with the arrow still sticking out.

Plus if the camera is using a slow shutter speed as suggested by some to explain the transperancy effect, then there would be far more blurring of the deer and the arrow would be nothing but faint white and yellow streak. No trail cam I've ever seen uses a shutter speed fast enough to freeze an image like that.

From: guidermd Date: 18-Oct-08
good points bigwoods, ia agree. a pass thru shot would be sticking in the ground by the time the deer jumped that high, and it would definately be blurring or show some kind of upward motion/distortion in the picture. the deer actually looks like a curled up dead squirrel in my yard. i thought threads like this were only started during the off season.

From: Shaft2Long Date: 19-Oct-08
looks totally fake to me. Especially the arrow.

From: Grounblind Date: 19-Oct-08
Where is the shadow of the arrow from the flash?

From: Apprentice Date: 19-Oct-08
It has to be a fake photo. For the reaction time of the camera, the deer would be a giant blur. How do I know? BB took a photo of my elk this year as the arrow was penetrating, and the elk is very very blurry, and BB was using a far superior camera than a Cuddeback. Not saying Cudde is not good, because I use them, but BB's personal camera is far superior.

From: SERBIANSHARK Date: 19-Oct-08

SERBIANSHARK's embedded Photo

From: SERBIANSHARK Date: 19-Oct-08

SERBIANSHARK's embedded Photo

From: SERBIANSHARK Date: 19-Oct-08

SERBIANSHARK's embedded Photo

From: SERBIANSHARK Date: 19-Oct-08

SERBIANSHARK's embedded Photo

From: G5s Date: 19-Oct-08

G5s's embedded Photo

A little Paintbrushin of my buddies Big Buck kill..

From: RUPE Date: 19-Oct-08
I think it's real

From: G5s Date: 20-Oct-08

G5s's embedded Photo

Found this Photo in October's WhiteTail Fitness Magazine...under article..'Preparing for Rut in Just 7 Short Minutes a Day' .... Looks familiar

From: BigWoods Date: 20-Oct-08

BigWoods's embedded Photo

This is interesting. I just received the same picture as an email entitled "best trail cam photo ever"

Note how the deer is far less transparent in this version. Definitely a fake photo. Interesting, but fake.

Also notice that the flash shadow on the background trees has disappeared in the second version.

From: ARO Date: 20-Oct-08
"that's a picture of a dead buck laying on the ground imposed over a photo of the woods. the picture was taken by someone standing over a dead buck with an arrow sticking up out of it."

i was thinking the exact same thing.

From: Lowground Date: 20-Oct-08
SO FAKE. I can't believe there has been so many posts second guessing it. Com' on. you all are better than that.

From: Muzzy Date: 21-Oct-08
I don't think anyone ever said that the arrow went all the way through and stuck in the ground. I think that the arrow punctured the far side of the deer but was probably still in the deer when it finally died.

Then again, I've had some deer that the arrow was sticking 1/2 way through the deer and as the deer ran off it finally fell out the other side.

From: Mike the Cheesehead Date: 21-Oct-08
Well guys, I got no reason to feel one way or the other on this one, but like I said, I know the guys involved. I'll see them tomorrow night and ask more about it.

From: Mike the Cheesehead Date: 23-Oct-08
Guys,

I know the family of the teenage boy (Logan) who is responsible for this photo. As I stated before, Logan’s uncle (Brent) owns a bar and I shoot pool on the bar’s pool team; Brent is my partner on the pool team. I also know the boy’s father (Brian).

Last night was pool night and I talked to Brent about this photo and got some more information.

Brian’s son shot this buck and he had a friend with him in the same tree so he has a witness. It was also the boy’s first buck with a bow. The boy didn’t even know he had this photo until a few days later when he checked his camera.

Some woman at ESPN Outdoors in New York got a hold of the photo and has proclaimed that it is fake and that Logan somehow Photo shopped it. The woman went so far as to tell Brian that he doesn't really know what teenage boys are capable of and that he could be doing all kinds of things and Brian wouldn't even know it. Apparently she came up with all kinds of steps that Logan went through to produce the photo. Brian got pretty upset with her and basically told her to get screwed.

CuddeBack has also stated that it is a fake. Apparently CuddeBack is concerned about backlash from PETA due to the graphic nature of the photo. They're also concerned that if it is proven to be real that Logan will be looking for some big money or something for the photo.

Brian and Logan have been contacted by a photography expert who does photographic analysis for a living and he is currently doing an analysis of the photo. They believe that it will be proven to be real within a couple weeks.

Brent looked me in the eye last night and verified that this photo is absolutely genuine. He said that Logan and Brian do not have the software or “know how” to fake anything like this. Furthermore, they still have the memory card from the camera with the original photo on it.

Brian and Logan are pretty sick of all the accusations and b.s. that has resulted from this one in a million photo.

Imagine how you would feel if you were the teenage boy or the father of the teenage boy. The kid shoots his first buck with a bow and also gets a very unique photo in the process. Suddenly everybody in the world is an expert and the boy and his dad’s credibility are being attacked.

I’ve read a lot of comments stating why this photo is fake. Since I know it is real, I also know that everything can be explained.

The transparency of the deer was explained with many other examples of transparent trail cam photos.

“The buck’s ears are droopy”. They’re not droopy; they’re pointing down and back, probably reacting to the sound of the arrow hitting him in the side. Or he’s pinning his ears back as he bolts out of there. How does anybody know that a deer couldn’t or wouldn’t do this after being hit by the arrow?

“The arrow should be blurry because it is moving”. The arrow probably slowed to a very slow speed due to the impact with the deer. Nobody said that the arrow zipped right through and stuck in the ground. I was told that they found the arrow a short distance down the blood trail. The arrow probably stopped in the buck and fell out as he was running. Anybody who knows anything about deer anatomy knows that the kid made a near perfect shot and there is a lot of tissue in that area to stop an arrow.

“There is too much blood at the point of impact”. The buck was shot with a Rage 2-blade. I don’t have any personal experience with Rage heads, but I have friends who use them and I’ve seen enough photos and heard enough stories to know they can make a hellacious entry hole. How does anybody know that a deer hit in that location would not bleed this much soon after impact? I would say that this photo proves that they can bleed that much soon after impact and it’s a good endorsement for Rage broadheads. Also, who said that this photo is at the point of impact; the buck might have made a step or two prior to this photo being snapped. I shot a doe once with a Wasp Jakhammer 1 ¾ inch mechanical and there was blood spayed all over at the point of impact. In fact blood sprayed out of the entry hole within a few feet of the point of impact.

“There’s a deer in the background”. So what, it may have been too far away to trigger the camera and was captured in the photo when the buck triggered the camera.

I have nothing to gain or lose and I don’t care one way or another, but I do have some facts.

I don’t know why some of you guys are so sure of yourself and are experts in photography all of a sudden when you don’t have any facts.

Serb, why do you have to interject your BS into every thread? I guess you have too much time on your hands; don’t you have a hunt to plan or something?

From: SERBIANSHARK Date: 23-Oct-08
Relax Mike, nobody called the kid a pedophile or anything. Many of us just don't see this as a real picture.

Why is one picture transparent....and one is not?

From: Jayson Whittle Date: 24-Oct-08
All I know is Ive tried to do this with my cuddy in the video mode. pretty hard, but fun pic

From: Mike the Cheesehead Date: 24-Oct-08
“Why is one picture transparent....and one is not?”

I don’t know. This photo has been released into the wild and is floating around the internet. Maybe somebody copied the photo and used some photo editing software to fill in some of the pixels to make it less transparent and adjust the lighting and contrast.

Besides, what difference does that make and how does it have any bearing on the validity of the original photo?

You could copy the photo, turn the buck pink and put a couple polar bears and a Hodag in the photo and that would have no bearing on the validity of the original photo.

The transparency issue has been discussed and others have provided several examples of transparent trail cam photos.

By the way, one of the experts told Brian that if Logan “faked” this photo, they want Logan to come and work for them.

Serb, I’m just curious what you are trying to prove with the goofy photos you posted on this thread?

“Many of us just don't see this as a real picture”.

I know everybody is an expert on trail camera photos; have you seen any photos of mountain lions lately? ;^)

From: Jayson Whittle Date: 24-Oct-08

Jayson Whittle's embedded Photo

this will piss you off. spike only area

From: SERBIANSHARK Date: 24-Oct-08
I will then refute my comments and wait for the results. My appologies until further info.

I guess i'll be the resident switzerland..lol

From: Ole Coyote Date: 24-Oct-08
LOL !!! Look at the picture for Gods' sake. The deer is already dead and has a pool of bllod around the arrow, this is impossible in less than a second after impact by arrow. The ears are dow and the mouth is closed no sign of alarm att all! Come on boys and girls get real !! Friend or no friend you have been duped! Stay well!

From: Hornseeker Date: 25-Oct-08
For you guys questioning the transparency... Why in teh world would a photoshopper INTRODUCE transparency into the creation????????

From: Old Hemlock Date: 25-Oct-08
photoshoped

From: CM Sackett Date: 25-Oct-08

CM Sackett's embedded Photo

Don't know the absolutes of this one. But there's plenty to suggest it's real as they get.

Consider the following... in the attached (hope it works) close up of the arrow/impact area, notice a few things:

1. The exit area (shown right at the right front "armpit")... very little blood (and NO pooling, smearing and NO BLOOD... anywhere on the leg). Within the first second of the shaft traveling through the body, the point of IMPACT would begin blood flow... first, and show the most flow... just as it does in the photo.

2. The blood pattern... at BOTH, the point of impact AND exit (you can just see the end of the broadhead showing) is ALL to one side of the wounds (the arrow, itself, serves as a point of reference). And that direction AT BOTH WOUND POINTS correlates perfectly with DIRECTION OF TRAVEL (sort of like slinging a milk shake out of your Wendy's cup... the trailing edge of the cup will have shake on it... the leading edge of travel... will not~~well, unless you were REAL SLOPPY before you slung it).

3. The blood coming from the exit wound appears to be airborne (and following a pattern of early dispersal that you might expect from a new flow, in motion... note the thin "drip" trail, running parallel to the ground). The slung shake could serve as a passable visual aid again.

There are more, but that's a start.

NOTE: Someone mentioned the arrow not being "blurred". No, it wouldn't be. This photo was taken with a flash. That flash drastically reduces the blur affect of anything within its direct point of illumination (that's also how the tail CAN be blurred, on the same).

NOTE 2: If the animal was "laying on the ground", there would be blood ON the leg... and far more on the leg and belly that is shown in this image.

NOTE 3: The ears being as far down as they are is far from an indictment of phoniness... as can be seen in the next picture. I have several images of deer jumping where the ears are very far... back.

CM Sackett

From: CM Sackett Date: 25-Oct-08

CM Sackett's embedded Photo

As can be seen, this deer is hanging (putting the most gravitational pressure on the ears possible)... and they're not near as low and close to the head as the jumping buck's are.

The force of a rapid movement UP will make anything not tied on tight... go DOWN (just try jumping as high as you can... with your pants unbuttoned).

Sackett

From: KY Riverrat Date: 26-Oct-08
Here is the explanation for the blur: The camera used the flash, the burst of the flash has duration of maybe 1/1500 of a second, the shutter speed is much less than that, like 1/40 of a second. The flash "freezes" the subject but the background stays stable and seems to "ghost" in some lighter places.

That's why the effect is seen so frequently in trailcameras at times too dark for no flash and light enough to still be hunting. You will not see that effect in complete darkness.

I'm certain it's real.

From: guidermd Date: 27-Oct-08
mnike cheese,

your explaination sounds great, and we can see that you are very convinced it is real. facts........?? speaking to someone does not necessarily produce "facts"........especially coming from a pool hall. the title of this topic in itself opens this up for debate "is it real or is it photoshop"?? the fact that the question of it being real or not is introduced in the title itself, simply adds to the unreliability of this being real. as for two teenage boys being witness to eachother, that opens a whole other can of worms........... most any teenager today is more than capable of manipulating a photo on a computer. it shows that the picture was taken sept 20, 2008.......that means that the truthful teenage logan would have checked in his deer within 24 hours right.............what state did he shoot it in and what is his confirmation number/tag number? it looks more like he shot that deer that evening, took a picture of it when he found it lying on the ground, and then with all the adrenaline and excitement flowing, he decided to take his "first deer bowkill" one step further.........and create this picture. the deer can be removed again from the photo and replaced with a 3 dollar bill, and everything still remains the same. ole coyote and i said the same things, the deer looks as dead as dead can be, there isn't an ounce of expression on the deer's face showing it has just took it last breath, and blood does not puddle BEHIND an arrow when the deer is jumping UP. exactly how does blood puddle to the REAR of the deer when it is jumping UP? also, i've shot 100s of deer with an arrow, and never has that much blood "puddled" within a fraction of a split second upon impact........never. it might flow quick, but not that quick! if brian and logan are sick of the issues with this picture, then they should get confirmation of it being real BEFORE they voluntarily put it on the internet and open it to scrutiny. also, as for shooting deer that jump up when hit, one characteristic is that the hind legs are much higher and kicking UP, NOT DOWN as in this photo. deer don't jump like a cat with all fours level, they kick the back legs up very high, usually higher than their head. the deer in this photo is dead, not alive, the photo was taken after it was found dead, and its fake. cute, very cute, but fake.

From: BADDDwithaBOW Date: 27-Oct-08
"For you guys questioning the transparency... Why in teh world would a photoshopper INTRODUCE transparency into the creation????????" Great point Hornseeker if somebody is goin thru that much trouble why make it transparent.....

also he shot this deer with a 2 blade rage..... that blood splash is very consistent with an impact from one of these heads....

I'm sayin real.....

From: DAVE1275 Date: 27-Oct-08
I think it's real. Look at the muscles on the hind quarter they are define and tight. If it was dead the muscles would be relaxed and no definetion in them.Think about it when you walk or jump your leg muscles get tight when they're working.lay down and they become relaxed.Look at even the neck muscles Think about it. I'm a taxidermist I look at these little things to make mounts look as real as possible .Just my opinion

From: Mike the Cheesehead Date: 27-Oct-08
Ole Coyote,

You're entitled to your opinion, even if it's wrong.

guidermd,

I'll admit that the photo looks fake. In fact I might be more skeptical if I didn't know the people involved, and it makes no difference where the conversation took place.

I don’t understand your logic when you say that the title of this thread has a bearing on whether or not the photo is real. This thread was not started by Logan or Brian, it was started by somebody else who got a hold of the photo and posted it and asked the question.

So, by your logic, if I post a photo of the lunar landing and ask “is it real or fake?” just the fact that I posted the photo and asked the question is evidence that it is fake. I don’t understand your logic. In fact that logic makes me question your thought process and all the other proof that you have.

The deer was shot in Wisconsin and you have 3 days to register your deer in Wisconsin. I don’t have his license number and I don’t see what difference that makes. What bearing does that have on the validity of the photo? Are you now implying that he did something illegal?

You have a lot of theories about what teenage boys are capable of and what you think this boy has done. Do you have any proof? What makes you such and expert? I challenge you to find a teenage boy (or an expert) and try to duplicate this photo, with the blood flying through the air and everything else.

Have you checked the expression on the face of the 100’s of deer that you shot? What do they usually do; grimace in agony, or do they usually turn and swear at you? Seriously, unless you have photos taken immediately after you shoot your deer, I don’t know how you can have an opinion on this one.

In regard to the blood and the deer jumping, you outta know that deer don’t usually jump straight up, and you can tell by the photo that the deer is jumping up and forward, which would make the blood go down and back, which it is doing. The blood is not “puddled”, it’s flowing. Do you have stop-action photos of the hundreds of deer you have shot showing the blood, and did you hit them in the same spot, under the same conditions with the same broad head? How do you know this photo was taken “within a fraction of a split second upon impact”? It could have been a second or two after the deer was hit. He may have been at the corn pile when he was hit and this could be his second reaction after his original reaction to the hit, which usually is to drop straight down. How do you know for a fact that your 100s of deer didn’t bleed that much on impact, you’re so busy looking at the expression on their face. Again, do have proof or just an opinion and an accusation?

You wrote:

“if brian and logan are sick of the issues with this picture, then they should get confirmation of it being real BEFORE they voluntarily put it on the internet and open it to scrutiny”

First of all, who said that Brian or Logan put it on the internet? I could be wrong, but I don’t think they did. If you check the originator of this thread you will see that it is not Brian or Logan. It’s my understanding that they emailed the photo to a friend and next thing you know it’s all over the internet with all the experts with their well-thought out opinions and accusations.

Second, “get confirmation of it being real” are you serious? The kids shoots a buck and gets an incredible photo in the process and you think he should get a some kind of confirmation or certification that it is real before he shows it to anybody. Why the hell would he need any kind of confirmation when it came out of his trail camera and he knows it is real? I could just see it “Hey Johnny, wanna see a really neat photo of the buck I shot that was taken with my trail camera immediately after I shot it? I even have the Certificate of Photographic Authenticity from Acme Photographic Lab.” Give me a frickin break.

The kid got a cool photo, showed some friends, it hit the email circuit and now everybody has the photo and an opinion.

In regard to the legs kicking up higher than the deer’s head; again are you serious? If I’m not mistaken, a deer’s legs are below his body most of the time. In order for him to jump and kick them higher than his head they have to push off of the ground, jump in the air and kick the legs up. I don’t think the deer leaves the ground with his legs above his head. Also, on the way down, at some point the deer’s legs have to come down from above his head so they can land on the ground, otherwise it would make for some pretty painful and embarrassing landings. I believe this photo was taken as the deer was on the way up, probably before his legs kicked up higher than his head (if they did). Also the position of the front legs is consistent with a jumping deer.

I’ve killed my share of deer too, but I would never claim to be an expert in regard to what happens at the moment of impact or shortly thereafter, because it happens too fast.

If this photo is proven to be fake I’ll admit that I was wrong, but until then I will believe what my friend has told me.

I think you guys jumped to the conclusion that this photo is fake and now you’re trying to justify your conclusion. You might be right, but your proof is pretty lame; you gotta come up with some better evidence and quit blowin smoke.

From: guidermd Date: 28-Oct-08
even after all that hot air, its still a fake. don't get too wrapped up in it, its only a picture, and its only people's OPINION, that's all. my opinion is different than yours, don't get the blood pressure elevated over it, just some ribbing and jabbin, that's all. in my opinion, its fake, your opinion it is real. if he really killed a deer that night , he would have checked it in to the state he lives in. if he actually killed that deer, then you are half way home with your opinion. also, why did the camera take a pefect picture of the buck when it was 4 ft off the ground?? if he was taking pictures of deer at his stand, the deer would be way above the intended positioning of the camera. with this buck jumping up after the shot(supposedly), the camera would have only caught his feet, not the whole deer perfectly centered as in the photo. did he intentionally aim the camera upward to catch this intense moment, or is that just a coincidense also? i think its odd that the camera was positioned to catch this deer when it jumped 4 feet off the ground. i pulled my cameras tonight and have 7126 pictures taken this year so far, but i've never been lucky enough to catch a deer jumping 4 feet off the ground and perfectly centered in front of the lens.. any other person would have had the camera positioned to take photos when the deer's feet are on the ground, not with the feet 4 ft above the normal intended positioning for a camera of a deer on ground level. i'm sure there's another long explanation for that opinion as well.................

From: Mike the Cheesehead Date: 28-Oct-08
guidermd,

Just had my blood pressure checked, it's perfect.

I guess you're not as good of a photographer as Logan.

Logan was in a tree stand and the trail camera was on a different tree at a lower level.

If you look at the photo you can tell that if a deer would have been standing at the bait he would have been pretty well centered in the photo and the camera is positioned fine to capture the body and head of a deer.

Once again your argument is weak. This deer isn't perfectly centered vertically. If you bothered to check the photo you would see that the deer is at the top of the photo frame and the top of the tail is even out of the photo.

In order for the camera to only catch the deer's feet, he would have had to have jumped at least 6 feet in the air. How do you come up with this stuff?

This might be a one in a million photo, at 7126 you probably have a long way to go.

Do you have any more "proof"? This is kind of fun.

From: mn_archer Date: 28-Oct-08
Wow, this is fun isn't it-

Cheesehead-

The only thing I am convinced of is that YOU think it is real based on 3rd-hand knowledge, of a teenage boy of all things. Do you believe everything you hear? There are plenty of people on this site telling you they know it is fake. Why don't you believe them? I think you are going to be embarrased a little bit when the truth finally does come out, but then we will never knkow the truth on this site so who really cares?

There must be some pics of the deer feeding at the bait before the shot, where are those as proof it really was standing there. You should also be able to produce some sort of time-stamp from your camera as well.

Hell, serb and his brother Shamus and his other brother Shamus look more real than that deer if you ask me.

michael

From: Mike the Cheesehead Date: 28-Oct-08
If it turns out to be fake I won't be embarrased, just surprised, no skin off my back. I'll admit my mistake in believing a friend. If that's the case, we were all lied to, but right now, I have no reason to doubt my source. I think most of the guys on here would believe a friend who is very close to the issue.

There are plenty of people saying it is fake, but there are also plenty saying it's real.

The fact is, we have a photo and I have personally spoken to someone who is very close to the issue. That's more than anybody else on here has.

Everything else is just conjecture. In my opinion the arguements saying that it is fake have been pretty weak so far. Lot's of theory, but nothing substantial and I've been having some fun with it.

From: mn_archer Date: 28-Oct-08
lol

I'm just messing with you Mike, Besides, it takes my mind off the very real fact that this country could be turned inside-out in the next couple weeks!

michael

From: highPlains Date: 28-Oct-08
The average guy here says it is fake, but everybody who proclaims to have some photography and/or photo shop skills say that it's real. I'll believe the latter.

From: guidermd Date: 28-Oct-08

guidermd's embedded Photo

cheesehead, i think its fine that you have an opinion of the photo, and that you hold the person you know sound in saying that it is real. i don't doubt you or intend to throw any trash at you. what state did this take place in? if logan did indeed shoot an 8 pt in the state of "X", it would sure add some validity to this whole thing. the photo shows 9/20/08, but in what state? my point about whether he checked in a deer in his state on the same day this photo was "taken", it would add a few blocks to the foundation of the arguement. i don't think anyone is "challenging" what you believe is solid, or what your friend claims to be true. it's just that there is some much about this picture that can be torn apart, that it seems to be staged. i think that the "fact" that cuddeback wouldn't have anything to do with it says alot also. i doubt a big comapny is going to be concerned about a teenager wanting money because of a photo, even if it was "real". i think cudeback knows what alot of us know......its simply not real. if it was it would be in the very next ad in a deer magazine. also, there are so many photos like this all over the internet, it just opens a big can of worms for anyone who swears it is real. haven't you seen the picture of the pickup truck with about 15 huge bucks in the bed, antlers hanging out everywhere? does logan live in alabama? seems this is where the photo originated. here's a photo of a buck one of my hunters shot. i took the warts off of a photo of my mother in law and super-imposed them on the buck. haha actually, this is a real photo of a buck larry lighthouse(pa) shot a number of years ago, it has a skin disorder. those warts were great tasting with a little onion over an open fire.............

From: Mike the Cheesehead Date: 28-Oct-08
guidermd,

Those warts are gross! Stop already!

I hear what you are saying and there's no need for any of us to take this too seriously.

Apparently you didn't read my posts above. I explained yesterday that the buck was shot in Wisconsin.

You have 3 days after the kill to register your deer in Wisconsin. Another one of Logan's uncles owns a sporting goods store in Milltown, Wisconsin. I would guess that Logan registered the deer there. If you would like you can call Northbound Sports in Milltown WI and ask if they know anything about this buck and if Logan registered it there.

I already told you the reasons that Cuddeback is saying it's fake. I don't understand their reasoning either.

I agree there are a lot of fake photos on the internet, but I haven't seen one like this with all the motion, blood and everything else. If you have one I'd like to see it.

Obviously, the photo is very unique and probably half of the people who see it are going to think it's fake. That alone is probably enough to make any company shy away from using it in an advertisement. They don't want their credibility questioned.

For the same reason, you'll probably never see a photo of a UFO, Bigfoot or an honest politician in a Nikon camera add ;^)

From: HACKMAN Date: 28-Oct-08
ITS REAL!!!! the proof will be out soon. It's very hard to believe, indeed. But it is REAL!!!! GREAT shot Logan and the picture is second to NONE.

From: mn_archer Date: 28-Oct-08
OK HACKMAN, THANKS~

I've been told that Bigfoot is real and the proof will be out soon on that as well.

What sort of proof can their be?

michael

From: Griz34 Date: 28-Oct-08
My vote is that it's real. I don't really have a reason, or a horse in this race but it looks real to me. Every time a picture comes out that seems a little odd it is always the same people who scream "PHOTOSHOP...PHOTOSHOP". I'm just going to give the kid the benefit of the doubt on this one.

From: guidermd Date: 29-Oct-08
where is logan during all of this? he shot it and he's not on this site, or anywhere close by? maybe he could jump on the bowsite and explain it all, that way we can hear it all from the source. i missed the part about wisconsin, thanks, got it. "if" he actually shot and registered an 8pt in wisconsin on 9/20/2008, that would add alot of credibility to his story and his picture. chances are if a teenager, or most anyone who shot this 8pt buck, they would surely have taken a photo of themselves with it................?? maybe he can post the pic of this deer after the kill since we already have the picture at the point of impact. most everyone carries a camera in their pack nowadys since they are so small and digital, and no film needed, and most every teenager can take a cell phone photo right in the woods very easily. getting a nice buck, with an incredible picture upon impact would surely justify taking a picture after the kill, wouldn't it? i'm sure he forgot to take a picture though, probably had to do his homework.

From: SERBIANSHARK Date: 29-Oct-08
The ONLY reason i give that picture any hope of it being real is because of Mike the cheesehead. I think Mike is the goods, and i take his word seriously.

Thats the only reason I'd even think for a second it's real. If the guy lied to Mike...THEN SHAME ON THAT GUY.

From: mn_archer Date: 29-Oct-08
Guide,

i don't think anyone is saying he didnt shoot the deer. What they are arguing is that the camera actually caught that picture. I think most of the non-believers think it is a pic of a deer laying dead on the ground and some how superimposed into the cuddeback pic-

michael

From: Mike the Cheesehead Date: 29-Oct-08
Thanks for the vote of confidence Serb; hopefully you won't regret it ;^)

guidermd,

"Where is Logan during all of this?" I don't know, I don't think he's even a member of Bowsite. Remember, he didn't post the first photo or start this thread. Maybe he has better things to do than take a bunch of crap and get called a liar by a bunch of strangers.

Remember, he's a kid who shot a buck and got a cool photo. Some people have been pretty hard on him.

As you can see, his uncle Brent (HACKMAN) has joined the fun.

I would guess that Logan has other photos of the buck and I'm sure he registered it legally, etc. I'll talk to Brent tonight and see if I can get another photo.

From: Bambi Killer Date: 29-Oct-08
http://carolinasoutdoor.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/6797/Arrow_caught_on_film_by_cuddeb.html#Post6797

here u go giudermd.....this shows pics of him after the kill.

From: Mike the Cheesehead Date: 29-Oct-08
I went to the site, but for some reason, the photos don't appear.

I did copy these two posts:

I saw the link to this post on the Mathewsinc.com website. I had to create an account here to respond to the question as to whether the picture is real or fake. The picture is real.

My 15 year old cousin (Logan) shot this buck. The next day he want back and pulled this photo off of the camera. He was as stunned as many are. I can tell you that I was supposed to get a copy of the picture last week but they wrote my email address down incorrectly. I sent this post website link to Logan's Dad (Brian)and sure enough this is his picture. We can not believe that the picture found its way to a South Carolina website when Brian said he has only sent it via email to a few friends. Brian just forwarded me me the email that he sent Cuddeback with the original photo so this picture can be validated by either Cuddeback or my cousin.

They had not showed it to anyone (outside of a printed picture to local friends) until they contacted Cuddeback. Cuddeback thought the picture was incredible however it was to graphic for them to use as in the past - they said anything such as this has had the PETA people in an uproar.

This weekend Brian also sent the picture to Rage to see if they thought they could use it.

If anyone has questions, they can PM me and I will reply.

Don

And this post from the Administrator of the Carolina site:

UPDATED!! Below you find a photo that was captured on a cuddeback, on page 2 of this post you'll find an explanation by a member who joined up from Minnesota to help clarify this mystery. Also, I've got my hands on one of the harvest photos which you'll now find below the trailcam photo. I am awaiting email confirmation to use full names in the post so we can give credit where credit is due. Maybe if we're lucky we'll get the story behind this buck. UPDATED 10-13-08**** Along with the explanation on page two of this post, I was sent some additional photos by the father of the young man who killed this buck. The deer was killed in Polk County, Wisconsin, I've added an additional cuddeback photo from a few days prior to when Logan killed this buck. This post has caused a mass of visitors to the site and as I told the owner of these photos. I can't make anyone believe whether it's real or not, but I can give credit where credit is due. Thanks to Logan Hacker and his father Brian for giving us the chance to add to this story and for sending in additional photos.

From: guidermd Date: 29-Oct-08
thanks, i'll try looking that up. i don't doubt he may have shot one, and i'm not interested in whether he checked it in legall, but if he did, it may add a little bit of possibility to the story. it still looks ad dead today as it did days ago.

From: Spike Date: 29-Oct-08
I suspected this picture was real when I received it in several e-mails... But when Mike put his name on it stating it's authentic, there's no question in my mind that it's real.

Is that Hackman, as in "Hack"? You owe me a rack of beers Hack!

From: cdnclub45 Date: 29-Oct-08
Phony! Way too much blood. For a deer to react like that, that arrow has to have just hit it and there's way to much blood already.

From: Spike Date: 29-Oct-08
You're right, a razor sharp arrow through the heart (where there is no blood pressure, especially when startled and jumping) wouldn't do that.

From: guidermd Date: 29-Oct-08
i just looked it up, but what does that sight offer in anyway that proves anything of it being real? alot of the people on there said it looks like a hoax as well. it doesn't even look real. here's what i see........... i see a photo of a buck on 9/13/2008 that obviously could have been shot 7 days later. on 9/13/2008, i see another deer standing in the exact same place, position, and size, only one half step difference from 9/20/2008 and starting to run from where it is standing 7 days later in the photo on 9/20/2008. the background deer has taken one half step from 9/13 to 9/20 and raised its tail during that one half step. now i realize that it "could be possible" to have had another deer of the same size, standing in front of the same two trees, in the very same position at the very same time that the very same 8 point is about to get shot in the very same place he was 7 days earlier as another deer could have been standing 7 days later......that is POSSIBLE. BUT VERY UNLIKELY!! the original photo was taken on 9/13/2008 with another deer in the background standing in front of two birch trees, with an 8 pt in the foreground. but on 9/20/2008, the exact same deer, OR A DEER OF VERY SIMILAR SIZE STANDING IN VIRTUALLY THE EXACT SAME LOCATION IN FRONT OF THE SAME TWO BIRCH TREES AS THE VERY SAME BUCK OF 7 DAYS EARLIER GETS SHOT IN VIRTUALLY THE VERY SAME POSITON IT WAS IN ONLY 7 DAYS EARLIER. the only difference is that it took a week to doctor the picture, get it on the internet, and he had to take the pics and raise the camera to make it look as though the deer had jumped when impacted. the positioning of the corn has been changed, which is POSSIBLE, but if the photo hadn't been adjusted, only a part of the buck would have been caught on film, he would have jumped too high to be completely caught on film. if only part of the buck was caught on film, that wouldn't get as much attention as if the entire buck was caught on film, would it!!! it took a week to doctor the picture taken on 9/13/2008 , then to killl the buck, find it dead on its side, take the dead photo, register the deer, then to superimpose it onto the same picture taken on 9/13/2008. the only difference is the half step difference in positioning of the background deer, and the half step positioning of the buck after it was supposedly shot. so, what you are telling me is that two deer, standing only a half step apart from where they were 7 days earlier, are standing in the virtual same positioning 7 days later when he shot this buck and this amazing photo was caught on film? there is way too much coincidence going on for me to even start to believe that!!!! did logan "forsee" that this would happen and coincidentally adjusted the camera to point more upwards in order to catch the entire buck as it jumped?? what date does the deer registation have on it, i would like to see that. why do all the pics have the date, but not the photo of logan with the deer? that leaves a big open door as to when it was shot. now that i have looked at these additional photos, i am even more convinced that it is staged. there is no way that the deer in the back ground(which appears to be the very same deer in both pictures) and the 8 pt in question are both standing only a half step apart in both photos only a split second before this incredible photo is taken, and all this is supposed to be 7 days apart!!! NO WAY!! THAT IS FAR TOO COINCIDENTAL!! did you notice that the buck is approx a half step or full step ahead in the latter photo, and the deer in the background standing in virtually the same position as 7 days earlier is only a half step to a full step difference a week later?? whoever doctored the photo put some time into it, but not everything matches up. what is the possibility of those two deer being only a half(or full step) different in both pictures, yet supposedly 7 days apart?????????????????????????????? i gotta go pooh now.

From: Mike the Cheesehead Date: 29-Oct-08
guidermd,

What was that again?

From: mn_archer Date: 29-Oct-08
lol-

This is too much fun!

michael

From: Mike the Cheesehead Date: 29-Oct-08
On second thought guidermd, I think this photo is real but all the rest of them are fake!

From: ridgeruler @ home Date: 29-Oct-08
For those questioning the blood on the photo, especially the direction of the blood flow, try this at home. Submerge you had in water and make a loose fist, so that there is water on the inside of your fingers. Now put your face in front of the circle made by you index finger and thumb. Now contract your fist. Your wet face will tell you that when there is muscle contraction, the water will flow out the nearest exit.

Now look at the photo. The deer would have been standing broadside. When hit, the deers front leg would have been brought back, contracting. The blood would have squirted out the entrance hole, as it is in the photo.

From: Bambi Killer Date: 29-Oct-08
guidermd....how do u explain the difference in the time of day of the picture...if someone can take a picture aat night and make it look like its light outside.....he is in good poition to be a billionaire.

From: Bambi Killer Date: 29-Oct-08
amen

From: scndwfstlhntng Date: 29-Oct-08
A lot of energy for nothing: this is a fake. Nothing about it is correct starting with the unnatural body position.

SG

From: ridgeruler @ home Date: 29-Oct-08
Unnatural body position?? Haven't you ever seen a deer mule kick after taking one through the boiler?

From: guidermd Date: 29-Oct-08
both deer in both photos are standing in virtually the same spots when each picture was taken, what is the likelihood of that? the buck isn't kicking because he's not even breathing. its a dead fake. with digital cameras today, foreground, lighting, contrast, background , etc, can all be changed with a click of a mouse. bambi, haven't you ever heard of a computer yet? night and day can be changed with a click, that's old old news. what is the likelihood of two deer standing in exactly the same places in two different photos that are supposed to be 7 days apart. the buck in the foreground and the deer in the background are both only one step away from the spots they were standing in in the second photo as they were in the first photo. can you explain that? how did the deer in the background and the buck manage to pose the same in both photos? the buck has only moved one step from the first photo to the second photo, and the deer in the background has only moved one step from the first photo to the second photo also. did both these deer hold their poses for 7 days waiting for the arrow to hit?? both deer only took one step in 7 days? neither deer appear to have moved from 9/13 to 9/20, that's why its so fake. whoever doctored the picture didn't take the placement of the two deer into consideration. he left both deer standing in the same spots on both 9/13 and 9/20. the chances of that happening isn't possible.

nutter, this has nothing to do with digital photography or expertice at all, it has to do with common sense, is that where i'm losing you? look at the photo, its very simple. neither deer moved at all from 9/13 to 9/20, they are both in the exact same spots. i do congratulate the kid for his buck, but staging the photo of it jumping is a farce. no one condemned the kid, just the photo............... take a reading lesson. and why do you care so much anyways? you think this photo is real? hmmm, now i know who shot my decoy:)

From: mn_archer Date: 29-Oct-08
Is there any truth to the rumor that this kid is actually the 3rd cousin, twice removed to Mitch Rompola?

michael

From: guidermd Date: 30-Oct-08
i think his uncle is a magician though...........

From: ridgeruler @ home Date: 30-Oct-08
guidermd,

Let's see, the camera was in the same place for both pictures. Secondly, there was a pile of corn on the ground. When I put my cameras on a scrape, I get pictures of deer standing in the exact same spot, especially when standing close to the camera.

As for the deer in the background. It's pretty easy to see the trail leading from the top side of the bait pile to where the deer in the background are standing.

From: Mike the Cheesehead Date: 30-Oct-08

Mike the Cheesehead's embedded Photo

Well, I can see that this is still interesting. Thanks, you guys who are sticking up for Logan!

How many of you guys have seen this photo of the big bear? Personally, I've had it sent to me several times in emails over the past 6 years or so. Each time there is a different sensational story that goes along with the photo. Most or all of the stories are probably B.S. but somewhere there is a true story that goes with the photo.

Just because some Joe Blow now claims that he or his dad took the Cuddeback photo does not invalidate the original photo. This thing is out there in cyberspace and anything can happen.

I can't offer an opinion on the other trail cam photos because I'm unable to view them; I'll have to try on another computer. I will say that I don't see where it's impossible for deer to stand at the same place at or near a bait pile. I have apple trees in my yard and I see deer stanging in nearly the same spot all the time eating apples. Same thing when I used to put a mineral block in my yard.

I did talk some more last night with Brent (HACKMAN, Logan's uncle) and I'm still convinced that it's real. There is an expert working on analysis of the photo and hopefully he will provide proof.

Either way, I'm sure there are those who refuse to believe the "proof" and will holler conspiracy.

From: guidermd Date: 30-Oct-08
i think the photo is still a crock, a fake. its a picture of a dead deer, positioned to look like its jumping. sounds like a teenage thing............regardless, it doesn't even look real enough to bother analyzing anything. i've taken lots of pics too, and the "likelihood" of those same two deer standing in the exact same two spots at the very split second that the camera snapped in the same two pictures allegedly taken 7 days apart is a crock. both deer on 9/13 are only one step back from the same picture on 9/20 in which they are both one step forward of where they stood 7 days earlier at the exact same split second. that makes it seem so phony only helen keller would have trouble deciphering it.

From: Mike the Cheesehead Date: 30-Oct-08
guidermd,

You're entitled to your opinion too even if it's wrong.

I could be wrong, but you sure sound like a stubborn ornery old fart!

From: guidermd Date: 30-Oct-08
i could be wrong too, but only time will really tell. in this day and age, it doesn't take too long to find out if things are BS or not. maybe this photo will make the magazines, then we can start another thread later on about staging fake photos. chances are it will never see a magazine though. if i'm wrong i'll eat my boot. but the way i see it, its not even close to being convincing. kudos to logan who actually did shoot this buck, but the reality of the photo is another story. i don't discredit his deer, only the photo, and the incentive to create the photo. it is cute though. i don't think you believe its real either mike, i think you are just relying heavily on your credibility you have in your friend that this is real. you talked about getting all the "facts", its all just heresay still at this point. what real facts do you have?? that the kid who shot it, said it is real? that's not a fact. onery yes, old no. its real easy to tell when people don't have much of an arguement to stand on because they start a personal attack on the opposition with name calling and slander that has nothing to do with the issue. sound familiar? thanks for the compliment though, and good hunting.

From: guidermd Date: 31-Oct-08
i have found this photo on several other sites as well. one site has someone questioning the timing of the camera on 9/20 compared to 9/13. why did the camera take a picture of the buck as it walked by on 9/13, but when the buck was standing in the same spot on 9/20 it didn't take the picture until it was 4 ft off the ground? shouldn't the photo on 9/20 show the buck standing in a similar shooting position as it did on 9/13, or at least dropping a bit as deer do when impacted with an arrow? instead it seems that the camera was (intentionally??) delayed until the buck was in perfect position for this unique photo to take place.(hmmmm, that's another coincidence) wouldn't the camera trigger at the same time on 9/20 as it did on 9/13? yes, the timing on the camera can be adjusted to trigger the photo, i know that, but the picture would more than likely trigger and be taken as this buck stood in the exact same position as it did a week earlier. it might be a fraction of a second different, but the buck is clearly smack in front of the camera, as it was on 9/13, yet it never took a picture until it walked into position, took an arrow, squated upon impact, and then jumped 4 ft high. that's alot of time for that buck to be in front of the camera on 9/20 and not have its picture taken. several other sites are claiming it to be a big fake, but very entertaining as well. maybe we should call marg hegelberger from CSI on this one!!

From: Mike the Cheesehead Date: 31-Oct-08
guidermd,

I didn't attack you personally or call you any names, I just said "you sound like" a stubborn ornery old fart. You might not be one, but you sure sound like one.

Yes, what I have is "hearsay" but it's more than you have, and I do believe it is real.

From: Mike the Cheesehead Date: 31-Oct-08

Mike the Cheesehead's embedded Photo

Okay boys, this is getting interesting!

I happened to be watching a hunting video last night and during one of the hunts a buck was shot with an arrow and as it ran off I thought I saw blood coming out of the entrance hole less than a second after the arrow impacted the deer.

I backed the video up and played it frame by frame. I took photos of my TV screen with my digital camera. I apologize for the poor photo quality, but it’s the best I could do under the circumstances.

This first photo is right at arrow impact.

From: Mike the Cheesehead Date: 31-Oct-08

Mike the Cheesehead's embedded Photo

This photo is a couple frames later as the buck is reacting to the shot.

Notice the body position and the expression on his face

From: Mike the Cheesehead Date: 31-Oct-08

Mike the Cheesehead's embedded Photo

This photo is a couple frames later, no more than a couple tenths of a second later.

Notice the position of his body.

Notice the position of his legs.

Notice the position of his ears.

Notice the expression on his face

Notice the blood beginning to appear at the entrance hole just to the left of the fletching.

Any of that look familiar?

Does this look like a deer that was laying on the ground dead and somebody photoshopped it into the video?

From: Mike the Cheesehead Date: 31-Oct-08

Mike the Cheesehead's embedded Photo

This photo is a couple frames later.

Again, notice the substantial blood straight above the fletching.

From: Mike the Cheesehead Date: 31-Oct-08

Mike the Cheesehead's embedded Photo

A couple frames later, look at the blood.

From: Mike the Cheesehead Date: 31-Oct-08

Mike the Cheesehead's embedded Photo

A couple frames later, blood.

From: Mike the Cheesehead Date: 31-Oct-08

Mike the Cheesehead's embedded Photo

Next frame, more blood.

From: Mike the Cheesehead Date: 31-Oct-08

Mike the Cheesehead's embedded Photo

Next frame, more blood...

From: Mike the Cheesehead Date: 31-Oct-08

Mike the Cheesehead's embedded Photo

Next frame, more blood

From: Mike the Cheesehead Date: 31-Oct-08

Mike the Cheesehead's embedded Photo

2 frames later, I think Helen Keller could see that blood.

I used a stop watch and did the best I could at timing the hit to this last frame where the deer runs out of the camera view. I came up with about 9 tenths of a second.

From: Mike the Cheesehead Date: 31-Oct-08
By the way, I agree that most deer squat when hit but when watching this shot frame by frame, this buck did not squat at all. His first reaction was to spring up, which may account for him not getting much air.

All this smoke about other deer in other photos and other dates, etc. are just grasping at straws in an attempt to disprove Logan's photo.

From: guidermd Date: 31-Oct-08
i noticed the poo poo on the camera lens too:) as well as the blurry legs. now show us a picture of that same deer 7 days earlier in the exact same spot, with another deer in the background in the same exact same spot in both photos please. as well as a picture of him not being shot on 9/13, then a picture of him on 9/20 4ft off the ground, but for some reason no picture of him stepping into shooting position on 9/20. isn't it odd that on 9/13 he got his picture taken the instant he was smack in front of the camera simply walking, but for some reason the camera never saw him on 9/20 as he once again stepped in perfect shooting position smack in front of the camera , just like on 9/13, but he was never photographed until he was 4 ft high? maybe the batteries were a little slow 7 days later?? good points on the facial expression, and the positon of his legs, ears, eyes, nose, and the blood flying(though i don't see any blood) you put alot of time into that, but its probably best proving your points with the photo in the topic, not another deer that is irrelevant. what is the shutter speed on a cuddeback, anyone know? it must be extremely fast since the deer jumps 4 ft in less than a fraction of a second, and no one is holding the camera to pan the subject either. good work, but i see blurry legs and blurry antlers. do you have the photo frame of him with 4 ft of air between the ground and his feet?

From: guidermd Date: 31-Oct-08
i do see the blood in the photo now, only 2 photos were posted when i commented. computer must be slow today. i feel that if it was real, there wouldn't be so many discrepancies, and so many similarities between the 9/13 and 9/20 photo. very coincicdental.

From: Mike the Cheesehead Date: 31-Oct-08
Computer matches the user I guess! ;^P

Maybe Logan's buck was not in front of the camera when he shot it and it jumped in front after impact.

The buck in the video that I photographed was not at a baitpile, therefore it's much less likely that there would be deer in the same locaton.

Also, you really can't tell if Logan's buck is 4 feet in the air. With a 1 dimensional photo, it's hard to tell where the ground is directly below the deer.

If there would have been a camera at gound level with the video deer, it might have looked like he jumped a lot higher.

Got anything else?

From: gecl Date: 31-Oct-08
This has been discussed for 9 pages over on Archerytalk and like here there are many naysayers, but if you dig deep into those 9 pages you'll find posts by a couple VERY, VERY knowledgeable people with EXTREMELY good credentials IN THIS FIELD. They have no doubt it's real! I know enough about Photoshop and trailcam pics to also strongly believe it's real and you are certainly allowed to think otherwise, BUT LET'S REMEMBER....if you are calling it fake without being qualified to do so, YOU ARE IN FACT CALLING THIS YOUNG HUNTER A LIAR AND FRAUD! Please give this a little thought.

From: Mike the Cheesehead Date: 31-Oct-08
Goin Huntin!

Have fun Boys!

From: Bou'bound Date: 31-Oct-08
what does it matter if it is real?

what does it matter if it is fake?

what does it matter at all?

From: mn_archer Date: 31-Oct-08
Mike,

If anything, your pics look more real then the kids. Maybe because yours are real??? lol

michael

From: highPlains Date: 31-Oct-08
guidermd, you are wrong. It is painfully obvious that you are not very familiar with photoshop or photo editing. Your analysis is way off base and illogical, only somebody who is ignorant of photoshop would buy into your arguments.

If this photo is a fake it was not done the way that you are proposing.

When this picture is deemed to be real I will be looking for your response. I hope that Mike the Cheesehead starts a new thread to call you out.

From: mn_archer Date: 31-Oct-08
Hey,

While we are all pissing on eachother, mike is probably out killing a deer right now! lol

michael


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Subject: RE: Is it real or is it Photoshop?

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