Bowsite.com

Terrible penetration if real.

Background looks like north woods. Is there anywhere up north where bowseason is in on Sept 20th?

Would be a heck of an advertisement for Cuddeback if real.

Here is a photo of a transparent buck I ended up shooting last year.

BC

Look at the edge of the brisket near the opposite leg. Looks like it's in the right spot for the exit.

Or....Maybe its just a real long arrow or a thin deer. LOL

hoyt1191, I think you're right, that does appear to be a bloody spot on the brisket.

The pic is accurate for blood-letting.

There's even a hint of shadowing from the blood-letting although hard to confirm, since there's no characteristic bloodlets to compare.

In my opinion there is a good chance it is a real photo. Look at the bait pile. I would think that the buck was feeding on the corn, got hit with the arrow, and the camera setup over the corn caught it on film. That does not seem all that far fetched, does it?

http://carolinasoutdoor.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/6797/Arrow_caught_on_film_by_cuddeb.html#Post6797

Hard to believe that the cam could be so lucky as to get the arrow like that. Possible and amazing, but who knows.

None of that makes any difference except the fact that we were shooting pool Wednesday night and one of the guys on the team was telling me about this photo and low and behold here it is on the Bowsite.

From what I've been told, it is real and I believe it.

Also, I'm not defending baiting but I don't think we can determine from this photo that there is more than 2 gallons of corn there.

Mike

Plus if the camera is using a slow shutter speed as suggested by some to explain the transperancy effect, then there would be far more blurring of the deer and the arrow would be nothing but faint white and yellow streak. No trail cam I've ever seen uses a shutter speed fast enough to freeze an image like that.

Note how the deer is far less transparent in this version. Definitely a fake photo. Interesting, but fake.

Also notice that the flash shadow on the background trees has disappeared in the second version.

i was thinking the exact same thing.

Then again, I've had some deer that the arrow was sticking 1/2 way through the deer and as the deer ran off it finally fell out the other side.

I know the family of the teenage boy (Logan) who is responsible for this photo. As I stated before, Logan’s uncle (Brent) owns a bar and I shoot pool on the bar’s pool team; Brent is my partner on the pool team. I also know the boy’s father (Brian).

Last night was pool night and I talked to Brent about this photo and got some more information.

Brian’s son shot this buck and he had a friend with him in the same tree so he has a witness. It was also the boy’s first buck with a bow. The boy didn’t even know he had this photo until a few days later when he checked his camera.

Some woman at ESPN Outdoors in New York got a hold of the photo and has proclaimed that it is fake and that Logan somehow Photo shopped it. The woman went so far as to tell Brian that he doesn't really know what teenage boys are capable of and that he could be doing all kinds of things and Brian wouldn't even know it. Apparently she came up with all kinds of steps that Logan went through to produce the photo. Brian got pretty upset with her and basically told her to get screwed.

CuddeBack has also stated that it is a fake. Apparently CuddeBack is concerned about backlash from PETA due to the graphic nature of the photo. They're also concerned that if it is proven to be real that Logan will be looking for some big money or something for the photo.

Brian and Logan have been contacted by a photography expert who does photographic analysis for a living and he is currently doing an analysis of the photo. They believe that it will be proven to be real within a couple weeks.

Brent looked me in the eye last night and verified that this photo is absolutely genuine. He said that Logan and Brian do not have the software or “know how” to fake anything like this. Furthermore, they still have the memory card from the camera with the original photo on it.

Brian and Logan are pretty sick of all the accusations and b.s. that has resulted from this one in a million photo.

Imagine how you would feel if you were the teenage boy or the father of the teenage boy. The kid shoots his first buck with a bow and also gets a very unique photo in the process. Suddenly everybody in the world is an expert and the boy and his dad’s credibility are being attacked.

I’ve read a lot of comments stating why this photo is fake. Since I know it is real, I also know that everything can be explained.

The transparency of the deer was explained with many other examples of transparent trail cam photos.

“The buck’s ears are droopy”. They’re not droopy; they’re pointing down and back, probably reacting to the sound of the arrow hitting him in the side. Or he’s pinning his ears back as he bolts out of there. How does anybody know that a deer couldn’t or wouldn’t do this after being hit by the arrow?

“The arrow should be blurry because it is moving”. The arrow probably slowed to a very slow speed due to the impact with the deer. Nobody said that the arrow zipped right through and stuck in the ground. I was told that they found the arrow a short distance down the blood trail. The arrow probably stopped in the buck and fell out as he was running. Anybody who knows anything about deer anatomy knows that the kid made a near perfect shot and there is a lot of tissue in that area to stop an arrow.

“There is too much blood at the point of impact”. The buck was shot with a Rage 2-blade. I don’t have any personal experience with Rage heads, but I have friends who use them and I’ve seen enough photos and heard enough stories to know they can make a hellacious entry hole. How does anybody know that a deer hit in that location would not bleed this much soon after impact? I would say that this photo proves that they can bleed that much soon after impact and it’s a good endorsement for Rage broadheads. Also, who said that this photo is at the point of impact; the buck might have made a step or two prior to this photo being snapped. I shot a doe once with a Wasp Jakhammer 1 ¾ inch mechanical and there was blood spayed all over at the point of impact. In fact blood sprayed out of the entry hole within a few feet of the point of impact.

“There’s a deer in the background”. So what, it may have been too far away to trigger the camera and was captured in the photo when the buck triggered the camera.

I have nothing to gain or lose and I don’t care one way or another, but I do have some facts.

I don’t know why some of you guys are so sure of yourself and are experts in photography all of a sudden when you don’t have any facts.

Serb, why do you have to interject your BS into every thread? I guess you have too much time on your hands; don’t you have a hunt to plan or something?

Why is one picture transparent....and one is not?

I don’t know. This photo has been released into the wild and is floating around the internet. Maybe somebody copied the photo and used some photo editing software to fill in some of the pixels to make it less transparent and adjust the lighting and contrast.

Besides, what difference does that make and how does it have any bearing on the validity of the original photo?

You could copy the photo, turn the buck pink and put a couple polar bears and a Hodag in the photo and that would have no bearing on the validity of the original photo.

The transparency issue has been discussed and others have provided several examples of transparent trail cam photos.

By the way, one of the experts told Brian that if Logan “faked” this photo, they want Logan to come and work for them.

Serb, I’m just curious what you are trying to prove with the goofy photos you posted on this thread?

“Many of us just don't see this as a real picture”.

I know everybody is an expert on trail camera photos; have you seen any photos of mountain lions lately? ;^)

I guess i'll be the resident switzerland..lol

Consider the following... in the attached (hope it works) close up of the arrow/impact area, notice a few things:

1. The exit area (shown right at the right front "armpit")... very little blood (and NO pooling, smearing and NO BLOOD... anywhere on the leg). Within the first second of the shaft traveling through the body, the point of IMPACT would begin blood flow... first, and show the most flow... just as it does in the photo.

2. The blood pattern... at BOTH, the point of impact AND exit (you can just see the end of the broadhead showing) is ALL to one side of the wounds (the arrow, itself, serves as a point of reference). And that direction AT BOTH WOUND POINTS correlates perfectly with DIRECTION OF TRAVEL (sort of like slinging a milk shake out of your Wendy's cup... the trailing edge of the cup will have shake on it... the leading edge of travel... will not~~well, unless you were REAL SLOPPY before you slung it).

3. The blood coming from the exit wound appears to be airborne (and following a pattern of early dispersal that you might expect from a new flow, in motion... note the thin "drip" trail, running parallel to the ground). The slung shake could serve as a passable visual aid again.

There are more, but that's a start.

NOTE: Someone mentioned the arrow not being "blurred". No, it wouldn't be. This photo was taken with a flash. That flash drastically reduces the blur affect of anything within its direct point of illumination (that's also how the tail CAN be blurred, on the same).

NOTE 2: If the animal was "laying on the ground", there would be blood ON the leg... and far more on the leg and belly that is shown in this image.

NOTE 3: The ears being as far down as they are is far from an indictment of phoniness... as can be seen in the next picture. I have several images of deer jumping where the ears are very far... back.

CM Sackett

The force of a rapid movement UP will make anything not tied on tight... go DOWN (just try jumping as high as you can... with your pants unbuttoned).

Sackett

That's why the effect is seen so frequently in trailcameras at times too dark for no flash and light enough to still be hunting. You will not see that effect in complete darkness.

I'm certain it's real.

your explaination sounds great, and we can see that you are very convinced it is real. facts........?? speaking to someone does not necessarily produce "facts"........especially coming from a pool hall. the title of this topic in itself opens this up for debate "is it real or is it photoshop"?? the fact that the question of it being real or not is introduced in the title itself, simply adds to the unreliability of this being real. as for two teenage boys being witness to eachother, that opens a whole other can of worms........... most any teenager today is more than capable of manipulating a photo on a computer. it shows that the picture was taken sept 20, 2008.......that means that the truthful teenage logan would have checked in his deer within 24 hours right.............what state did he shoot it in and what is his confirmation number/tag number? it looks more like he shot that deer that evening, took a picture of it when he found it lying on the ground, and then with all the adrenaline and excitement flowing, he decided to take his "first deer bowkill" one step further.........and create this picture. the deer can be removed again from the photo and replaced with a 3 dollar bill, and everything still remains the same. ole coyote and i said the same things, the deer looks as dead as dead can be, there isn't an ounce of expression on the deer's face showing it has just took it last breath, and blood does not puddle BEHIND an arrow when the deer is jumping UP. exactly how does blood puddle to the REAR of the deer when it is jumping UP? also, i've shot 100s of deer with an arrow, and never has that much blood "puddled" within a fraction of a split second upon impact........never. it might flow quick, but not that quick! if brian and logan are sick of the issues with this picture, then they should get confirmation of it being real BEFORE they voluntarily put it on the internet and open it to scrutiny. also, as for shooting deer that jump up when hit, one characteristic is that the hind legs are much higher and kicking UP, NOT DOWN as in this photo. deer don't jump like a cat with all fours level, they kick the back legs up very high, usually higher than their head. the deer in this photo is dead, not alive, the photo was taken after it was found dead, and its fake. cute, very cute, but fake.

also he shot this deer with a 2 blade rage..... that blood splash is very consistent with an impact from one of these heads....

I'm sayin real.....

You're entitled to your opinion, even if it's wrong.

guidermd,

I'll admit that the photo looks fake. In fact I might be more skeptical if I didn't know the people involved, and it makes no difference where the conversation took place.

I don’t understand your logic when you say that the title of this thread has a bearing on whether or not the photo is real. This thread was not started by Logan or Brian, it was started by somebody else who got a hold of the photo and posted it and asked the question.

So, by your logic, if I post a photo of the lunar landing and ask “is it real or fake?” just the fact that I posted the photo and asked the question is evidence that it is fake. I don’t understand your logic. In fact that logic makes me question your thought process and all the other proof that you have.

The deer was shot in Wisconsin and you have 3 days to register your deer in Wisconsin. I don’t have his license number and I don’t see what difference that makes. What bearing does that have on the validity of the photo? Are you now implying that he did something illegal?

You have a lot of theories about what teenage boys are capable of and what you think this boy has done. Do you have any proof? What makes you such and expert? I challenge you to find a teenage boy (or an expert) and try to duplicate this photo, with the blood flying through the air and everything else.

Have you checked the expression on the face of the 100’s of deer that you shot? What do they usually do; grimace in agony, or do they usually turn and swear at you? Seriously, unless you have photos taken immediately after you shoot your deer, I don’t know how you can have an opinion on this one.

In regard to the blood and the deer jumping, you outta know that deer don’t usually jump straight up, and you can tell by the photo that the deer is jumping up and forward, which would make the blood go down and back, which it is doing. The blood is not “puddled”, it’s flowing. Do you have stop-action photos of the hundreds of deer you have shot showing the blood, and did you hit them in the same spot, under the same conditions with the same broad head? How do you know this photo was taken “within a fraction of a split second upon impact”? It could have been a second or two after the deer was hit. He may have been at the corn pile when he was hit and this could be his second reaction after his original reaction to the hit, which usually is to drop straight down. How do you know for a fact that your 100s of deer didn’t bleed that much on impact, you’re so busy looking at the expression on their face. Again, do have proof or just an opinion and an accusation?

You wrote:

“if brian and logan are sick of the issues with this picture, then they should get confirmation of it being real BEFORE they voluntarily put it on the internet and open it to scrutiny”

First of all, who said that Brian or Logan put it on the internet? I could be wrong, but I don’t think they did. If you check the originator of this thread you will see that it is not Brian or Logan. It’s my understanding that they emailed the photo to a friend and next thing you know it’s all over the internet with all the experts with their well-thought out opinions and accusations.

Second, “get confirmation of it being real” are you serious? The kids shoots a buck and gets an incredible photo in the process and you think he should get a some kind of confirmation or certification that it is real before he shows it to anybody. Why the hell would he need any kind of confirmation when it came out of his trail camera and he knows it is real? I could just see it “Hey Johnny, wanna see a really neat photo of the buck I shot that was taken with my trail camera immediately after I shot it? I even have the Certificate of Photographic Authenticity from Acme Photographic Lab.” Give me a frickin break.

The kid got a cool photo, showed some friends, it hit the email circuit and now everybody has the photo and an opinion.

In regard to the legs kicking up higher than the deer’s head; again are you serious? If I’m not mistaken, a deer’s legs are below his body most of the time. In order for him to jump and kick them higher than his head they have to push off of the ground, jump in the air and kick the legs up. I don’t think the deer leaves the ground with his legs above his head. Also, on the way down, at some point the deer’s legs have to come down from above his head so they can land on the ground, otherwise it would make for some pretty painful and embarrassing landings. I believe this photo was taken as the deer was on the way up, probably before his legs kicked up higher than his head (if they did). Also the position of the front legs is consistent with a jumping deer.

I’ve killed my share of deer too, but I would never claim to be an expert in regard to what happens at the moment of impact or shortly thereafter, because it happens too fast.

If this photo is proven to be fake I’ll admit that I was wrong, but until then I will believe what my friend has told me.

I think you guys jumped to the conclusion that this photo is fake and now you’re trying to justify your conclusion. You might be right, but your proof is pretty lame; you gotta come up with some better evidence and quit blowin smoke.

Just had my blood pressure checked, it's perfect.

I guess you're not as good of a photographer as Logan.

Logan was in a tree stand and the trail camera was on a different tree at a lower level.

If you look at the photo you can tell that if a deer would have been standing at the bait he would have been pretty well centered in the photo and the camera is positioned fine to capture the body and head of a deer.

Once again your argument is weak. This deer isn't perfectly centered vertically. If you bothered to check the photo you would see that the deer is at the top of the photo frame and the top of the tail is even out of the photo.

In order for the camera to only catch the deer's feet, he would have had to have jumped at least 6 feet in the air. How do you come up with this stuff?

This might be a one in a million photo, at 7126 you probably have a long way to go.

Do you have any more "proof"? This is kind of fun.

Cheesehead-

The only thing I am convinced of is that YOU think it is real based on 3rd-hand knowledge, of a teenage boy of all things. Do you believe everything you hear? There are plenty of people on this site telling you they know it is fake. Why don't you believe them? I think you are going to be embarrased a little bit when the truth finally does come out, but then we will never knkow the truth on this site so who really cares?

There must be some pics of the deer feeding at the bait before the shot, where are those as proof it really was standing there. You should also be able to produce some sort of time-stamp from your camera as well.

Hell, serb and his brother Shamus and his other brother Shamus look more real than that deer if you ask me.

michael

There are plenty of people saying it is fake, but there are also plenty saying it's real.

The fact is, we have a photo and I have personally spoken to someone who is very close to the issue. That's more than anybody else on here has.

Everything else is just conjecture. In my opinion the arguements saying that it is fake have been pretty weak so far. Lot's of theory, but nothing substantial and I've been having some fun with it.

I'm just messing with you Mike, Besides, it takes my mind off the very real fact that this country could be turned inside-out in the next couple weeks!

michael

Those warts are gross! Stop already!

I hear what you are saying and there's no need for any of us to take this too seriously.

Apparently you didn't read my posts above. I explained yesterday that the buck was shot in Wisconsin.

You have 3 days after the kill to register your deer in Wisconsin. Another one of Logan's uncles owns a sporting goods store in Milltown, Wisconsin. I would guess that Logan registered the deer there. If you would like you can call Northbound Sports in Milltown WI and ask if they know anything about this buck and if Logan registered it there.

I already told you the reasons that Cuddeback is saying it's fake. I don't understand their reasoning either.

I agree there are a lot of fake photos on the internet, but I haven't seen one like this with all the motion, blood and everything else. If you have one I'd like to see it.

Obviously, the photo is very unique and probably half of the people who see it are going to think it's fake. That alone is probably enough to make any company shy away from using it in an advertisement. They don't want their credibility questioned.

For the same reason, you'll probably never see a photo of a UFO, Bigfoot or an honest politician in a Nikon camera add ;^)

I've been told that Bigfoot is real and the proof will be out soon on that as well.

What sort of proof can their be?

michael

Thats the only reason I'd even think for a second it's real. If the guy lied to Mike...THEN SHAME ON THAT GUY.

i don't think anyone is saying he didnt shoot the deer. What they are arguing is that the camera actually caught that picture. I think most of the non-believers think it is a pic of a deer laying dead on the ground and some how superimposed into the cuddeback pic-

michael

guidermd,

"Where is Logan during all of this?" I don't know, I don't think he's even a member of Bowsite. Remember, he didn't post the first photo or start this thread. Maybe he has better things to do than take a bunch of crap and get called a liar by a bunch of strangers.

Remember, he's a kid who shot a buck and got a cool photo. Some people have been pretty hard on him.

As you can see, his uncle Brent (HACKMAN) has joined the fun.

I would guess that Logan has other photos of the buck and I'm sure he registered it legally, etc. I'll talk to Brent tonight and see if I can get another photo.

here u go giudermd.....this shows pics of him after the kill.

I did copy these two posts:

I saw the link to this post on the Mathewsinc.com website. I had to create an account here to respond to the question as to whether the picture is real or fake. The picture is real.

My 15 year old cousin (Logan) shot this buck. The next day he want back and pulled this photo off of the camera. He was as stunned as many are. I can tell you that I was supposed to get a copy of the picture last week but they wrote my email address down incorrectly. I sent this post website link to Logan's Dad (Brian)and sure enough this is his picture. We can not believe that the picture found its way to a South Carolina website when Brian said he has only sent it via email to a few friends. Brian just forwarded me me the email that he sent Cuddeback with the original photo so this picture can be validated by either Cuddeback or my cousin.

They had not showed it to anyone (outside of a printed picture to local friends) until they contacted Cuddeback. Cuddeback thought the picture was incredible however it was to graphic for them to use as in the past - they said anything such as this has had the PETA people in an uproar.

This weekend Brian also sent the picture to Rage to see if they thought they could use it.

If anyone has questions, they can PM me and I will reply.

Don

And this post from the Administrator of the Carolina site:

UPDATED!! Below you find a photo that was captured on a cuddeback, on page 2 of this post you'll find an explanation by a member who joined up from Minnesota to help clarify this mystery. Also, I've got my hands on one of the harvest photos which you'll now find below the trailcam photo. I am awaiting email confirmation to use full names in the post so we can give credit where credit is due. Maybe if we're lucky we'll get the story behind this buck. UPDATED 10-13-08**** Along with the explanation on page two of this post, I was sent some additional photos by the father of the young man who killed this buck. The deer was killed in Polk County, Wisconsin, I've added an additional cuddeback photo from a few days prior to when Logan killed this buck. This post has caused a mass of visitors to the site and as I told the owner of these photos. I can't make anyone believe whether it's real or not, but I can give credit where credit is due. Thanks to Logan Hacker and his father Brian for giving us the chance to add to this story and for sending in additional photos.

Is that Hackman, as in "Hack"? You owe me a rack of beers Hack!

What was that again?

This is too much fun!

michael

Now look at the photo. The deer would have been standing broadside. When hit, the deers front leg would have been brought back, contracting. The blood would have squirted out the entrance hole, as it is in the photo.

SG

nutter, this has nothing to do with digital photography or expertice at all, it has to do with common sense, is that where i'm losing you? look at the photo, its very simple. neither deer moved at all from 9/13 to 9/20, they are both in the exact same spots. i do congratulate the kid for his buck, but staging the photo of it jumping is a farce. no one condemned the kid, just the photo............... take a reading lesson. and why do you care so much anyways? you think this photo is real? hmmm, now i know who shot my decoy:)

michael

Let's see, the camera was in the same place for both pictures. Secondly, there was a pile of corn on the ground. When I put my cameras on a scrape, I get pictures of deer standing in the exact same spot, especially when standing close to the camera.

As for the deer in the background. It's pretty easy to see the trail leading from the top side of the bait pile to where the deer in the background are standing.

How many of you guys have seen this photo of the big bear? Personally, I've had it sent to me several times in emails over the past 6 years or so. Each time there is a different sensational story that goes along with the photo. Most or all of the stories are probably B.S. but somewhere there is a true story that goes with the photo.

Just because some Joe Blow now claims that he or his dad took the Cuddeback photo does not invalidate the original photo. This thing is out there in cyberspace and anything can happen.

I can't offer an opinion on the other trail cam photos because I'm unable to view them; I'll have to try on another computer. I will say that I don't see where it's impossible for deer to stand at the same place at or near a bait pile. I have apple trees in my yard and I see deer stanging in nearly the same spot all the time eating apples. Same thing when I used to put a mineral block in my yard.

I did talk some more last night with Brent (HACKMAN, Logan's uncle) and I'm still convinced that it's real. There is an expert working on analysis of the photo and hopefully he will provide proof.

Either way, I'm sure there are those who refuse to believe the "proof" and will holler conspiracy.

You're entitled to your opinion too even if it's wrong.

I could be wrong, but you sure sound like a stubborn ornery old fart!

I didn't attack you personally or call you any names, I just said "you sound like" a stubborn ornery old fart. You might not be one, but you sure sound like one.

Yes, what I have is "hearsay" but it's more than you have, and I do believe it is real.

I happened to be watching a hunting video last night and during one of the hunts a buck was shot with an arrow and as it ran off I thought I saw blood coming out of the entrance hole less than a second after the arrow impacted the deer.

I backed the video up and played it frame by frame. I took photos of my TV screen with my digital camera. I apologize for the poor photo quality, but it’s the best I could do under the circumstances.

This first photo is right at arrow impact.

Notice the body position and the expression on his face

Notice the position of his body.

Notice the position of his legs.

Notice the position of his ears.

Notice the expression on his face

Notice the blood beginning to appear at the entrance hole just to the left of the fletching.

Any of that look familiar?

Does this look like a deer that was laying on the ground dead and somebody photoshopped it into the video?

Again, notice the substantial blood straight above the fletching.

I used a stop watch and did the best I could at timing the hit to this last frame where the deer runs out of the camera view. I came up with about 9 tenths of a second.

All this smoke about other deer in other photos and other dates, etc. are just grasping at straws in an attempt to disprove Logan's photo.

Maybe Logan's buck was not in front of the camera when he shot it and it jumped in front after impact.

The buck in the video that I photographed was not at a baitpile, therefore it's much less likely that there would be deer in the same locaton.

Also, you really can't tell if Logan's buck is 4 feet in the air. With a 1 dimensional photo, it's hard to tell where the ground is directly below the deer.

If there would have been a camera at gound level with the video deer, it might have looked like he jumped a lot higher.

Got anything else?

Have fun Boys!

what does it matter if it is fake?

what does it matter at all?

If anything, your pics look more real then the kids. Maybe because yours are real??? lol

michael

If this photo is a fake it was not done the way that you are proposing.

When this picture is deemed to be real I will be looking for your response. I hope that Mike the Cheesehead starts a new thread to call you out.

While we are all pissing on eachother, mike is probably out killing a deer right now! lol

michael