Do you shoot Does that have fawns?
Whitetail Deer
I posted this on the New York Forum this AM.I had a Doe at about 7 yards this morning,I drew back but before I could shoot 2 fawns popped out behind her.I did not shoot.About 10 minutes later I had another chance to shoot the same Doe.I elected to let her walk.I did not feel right orphaning the fawns.I know guys that would have shot the Doe.Would you?
No, I don't . I guess why would you ? The fawns really don't stand much of a chance when they are by themselves. For me it is kinda like shooting a turkey in it's roost. There is no law against it but ya gotta ask yourself is it an appropriate thing to do. To each his own
I would not. Last night, i had a similar situation, had a doe walk into my sight line, i reached for my bow, but as i got it, i saw two fawns that must have just lost their spots following closely. I just watched as they fed past me at 25 yards.
Same as JTV, but I have never seen a doe this time of year with spots while hunting...so, they are all a target to me. I hunt bucks for the rack and meat and does for the meat....bigger doe, more meat!
Youre own choice, I would shoot doe for sure,fawns will be on there own soon enough anyway. if fawns are out of spots they are far game as well
Im just too embarassed to take spotted ones to register-gotta do that in WI
I'll shoot the doe unless the fawns are obviously late and very little
Fawns can digest roughage within like 6 weeks of birth or something like that, and are actually able to survive on their own
Shoot the fawns. Or veal, as I call them......
All does have fawns this time of year - they just may or may not be with them. I don't shoot does with spotted fawns, but unless they have spotted fawns with them, I will shoot them (they taste much better than bucks). Unless it's a buck I intend to mount, I only shoot does.
Not anymore. I have when I was younger. I'll shoot the doe fawns if given a chance.
In a heavily hunted area like where I live I think shooting the doe with fawns is a death sentence for the fawns. Any deer in rifle season here gets hammered,no reason to make it easier.
This gets debated all the time if it doesn't bother you go for it. Just not my cup of tea anymore.
Won't shoot a doe with fawns and won't shoot a fawn.
By the time hunting season rolls around the fawns will be more than fine on their own anyway. Shoot the doe or don't shoot it, but realize that other than the touchy feely feeling sorry for the orphaned fawns, there is absolutely no reason not to as they will make it on their own anyway.
I rarely doe hunt personally, but if when I do, if it doesn't have spots it's going down.
I shot a doe last year in our late bow season after gun seasons were over. She had two youngins wither her but she was the first to walk by so I took her. I felt kinda bad about when the fawns just ran about 20 yards and stood there for several minutes. Guess I could have shoot them too if I would have had more tags. But none the less I did feel kinda bad about it, she still tasted great and its not like I lost any sleep over it. Just the first time I ever felt bad about killing something I ate.
Shot a doe on Monday. She was with 2 yearlings. The yearlings did not have spots but were small. I would not shoot anything with spots, just my preference, but come to think of it in all of my years of hunting I never saw one with spots during the hunting season. I try not to take the yearlings since they are small and can't tell if it is a button buck. The milk sack on the doe was dry and they were feeding on their own.
not called yearlings unless over a year old-they would be fawns.I used to call fawns yearlings but kept getting corrected-maybe it sounds better to shoot a yearling instead of a fawn.
Yes, i regularly shoot does with fawns. If the fawns seem reallly small or still have spots I will sometimes decide not to shoot, but I have witnessed many fawns survivie and thrive after the doe was killed in September or October.
It is a personal decision, though. It bothers some folks to kill a doe with fawns, and that is their own personal decision. The fawns have a great chance for survival, so i personally see nothing wrong with killing a wet doe in September or October.
Question...these fawns without spots...If mom is harvested, wouldn't another mature doe accept them as one of their own? It is not uncommon to see a doe with three young ones.
Thoughts?
I did shoot one doe with a fawn in the past, the fawn didn't know what happened and just stood there trying to find mama, had to put her down too. This was in a very overpopulated area where they want a large number of deer removed. If this was an area which gets a lot of pressure, they get to walk. I guess what I'm trying to say is. It really depends on the area/situation. There isn't much meat on the fawn, would not shoot one again.
Fawns will survive fine this time of year. If you choose not to shoot a doe with fawns(or fawns themselves)that's certainly your business-but you are simply acting on human emotion by personalizing an animal-which is what anti hunters are guilty of and hunters should avoid IMO.
I shoot the doe and her doe fawns, I just make sure not to shoot button bucks. It is simply good management, fawns will survive without their mother by this time of year.
I don't shoot them. I've seen it where the doe is shot and the fawn just stands there acting lost. I'm not hard enough up for meat to experience that again.
The fawns will be fine but I don't do it anymore. Personal choice and I will eventually will get a yearling or lone doe. I have felt bad in the past and feel better letting them walk.
The fawns will be fine but I don't do it anymore. Personal choice and I will eventually will get a yearling or lone doe. I have felt bad in the past and feel better letting them walk.
i just did it sunday a.m. i don't shoot fawns, usually. just my preference and the doe would only get a pass if her fawn/s was extremely small.
it actually worked out quite well for me sunday, i hit the doe hit and back and she took off with my arrow. i thought, oh sh!t, this is gonna be a long day. But, the fawn stood there broadside for a good five minutes not knowing what to do, then trotted off "baaaaing" toward the way momma went. i did not here mammma blowing or calling for her fawn which i took to be a good sign for me. about 20 minutes later i saw the fawn walking around still "baaaaing" for mamma. I smiled and climbed down. I knew that had mamma been gut-shot or just wounded, she would have met back up with her fawn by then. Sure enough 150 yards from where i shot her she was piled up at the bottom of a ravine, i think she did the dead slide down it.
i would have sat in that tree for like 3 more hours had i not seen that fawn still alone.
as for thd fawn, i sure it will be just fine, if anything making it be alone this early in the season might just get it smart enough by the time gun season rolls around, versus when they get orphaned right before gun season as usual.
to each there own though.
but, if you don't shoot doe's with fawns and you don't shoot fawns, what do you shoot? only yearling does......
ryanrc-To answer your question yes. Adult does and bucks.
If you are in southern NY you should shoot every doe possible. It's about game management as much as it is about hunting.
I hunted Westchester and you could should as many as you could check in - they really wanted you to take as many as you could.
We hunt deer year round so it does come up. I've done both, let them walk and take them. Much depends on the situation. Many of our hunts are eradication/damage control. Nearly all are unlimited tags. On those I'll wipe the milk off their lips if I have to before I pack em out. Shoot the doe first and the fawn will hang around and you can often take it too. They are very tender but I think they are a bit bland tasting.
All our deer have spots all the time! Twice over the years I've shot the doe and then nearly stepped on the hiding fawn. Caught them and gave them to some folks that bottle feed and raise them here. One made it and I still see her in the goat pasture when I drive by.
More often than not I'll shoot them both if given the chance. Great eating.
As stated by many already, it's a personal preference. Me - won't shoot if fawns have spots and I have seen several here in northeast IN that still have spots this season.
To imply that if you're not willing to shoot a doe with fawns that you can't shoot does would be erroneous. I've shot a dry (fawnless) doe each of the last 4 years. My hunting partner has already seen 2 w/o fawns this season. Pete
It shouldn't matter but I don't feel right doing it either. My personal preference only tho. As others have stated the fawns will be fine on their own at that point.
Heck, I know guys that have no problem shooting the fawns and letting mom walk.
To be honest, I don't have the deer infestation that Woody is dealing with down South :) I actually have the opposite: The Amish Armada arrives at gun season and slaughters every deer that runs by. I try to leave the does that are producing and take the ones that are dry. Might be that they just weren't bred or they may be barren..... the Amish probably kill the ones I pass anyway :( Pete
Funny you should ask this question, I shot one tonight on a property where the landowner wants me to shoot as many deer as I can legally take this year. The property is over run and I have a job to do while also filling my and friends freezers for the winter. I don't have a problem with it this time of year, with the social network of so many deer/offspring, the fawn will join up with another doe and tag along. If the deer numbers were low, I wouldn't shoot but in an overpopulated area, its our job to help manage the numbers.
what happens to the yearlings once the bucks separate mom from their fawns during the rut? There has also been some interesting stuff done on dispersal which seems like it suggests shooting the mature doe so the bucks don't leave the area. i would prefer not to do it but have no reservation about dropping the string
After 6 years, I still hold the record for the smallest doe. She still had faint spots on her back.
In areas that are over populated, any doe is a good one to shoot. In areas with moderate population and high winter kill, the younger the better. That's because the mature does will survive and the fawns have a higher chance of death over winter.
However, I'm still trying for my double with a bow. Mature doe and then the doe fawn. That is appropriate on our over populated farm.
I cannot understand the spot thing. If its legal, why would a spot matter? Some of you guys sound like peta members. Very strange. Where I hunt, (lots of deer) I shoot the smallest deer I see. Tasty and easy to clean.
"North Kakalaky Happy Meal"
LOL Woody!!!
by hunting season, the fawns chances of survival are not much different with or without it mother. I will shoot the mother because it is the best way to control the population.
Woody- Will be pulling into your driveway around noon for lunch!!!
Been passing on all does past several years. Shot enough in the past. Now, I'd shoot smallest deer for antlerless tag if there were 3 in front of me. Dont see many with spots. Rather not hassle with dragging a big doe so far, I hunt alone, and would be satisfied for the "convenience" and achieving my goals of taking deer with tradtional equipment. Still waiting for "mr. right" though.
"I cannot understand the spot thing. If its legal, why would a spot matter? Some of you guys sound like peta members. Very strange. Where I hunt, (lots of deer) I shoot the smallest deer I see. Tasty and easy to clean."
I do find it odd people abstain from killing fawns but have no problem with young, tender rabbits, squirrels and "eatin' size" fish. Heck, they actually covet the young of other species. Illogical.
Frankly, I am jealous of you guys that get fawns standing around when you shoot the doe. When I find myself in that situation, the fawns high tail it.
you guys realize that chickens are killed at like 5 or 6 weeks old.
pigs are slaughtered at like 6 months( i think)
and i doubt cattle are too far behind.
i don't see anyone turning there nose up or crying for the poor chicken or pig
I'll shoot the fawn rather than the mom for these reasons:
1)By the time season opens here (NY) the fawns have a bit of mass to them.
2)I'm getting old and gutting, dragging, quartering and butchering a little one is much easier for me. My back is very bad.
3)IMO superior venison. The smell of the meat when you open up a young one is awesome.
4) I do believe that animals have thought and emotion but very limited understanding. I think it bugs a mommy less than a baby to see the other one croak. I could be wrong, but that's where I've landed over the years.
If you look over my profile, you'll see that over the years I always let PY bucks pass so that I could get a chance at a fawn.
Depends on the day I reckon.. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't... There have been times when I've shot the momma doe and the fawns just hung around so I took them too, but thats only when I am running low on vennison, or have a family that is wanting some deer..
Spots on a fawn give you a great aiming point! And they are easier to tote out of the timber.
Seriously, I'll shoot a fawn if that's all I can get. Have never shot one with spots though. I usually don't have any problems filling my tags with mature does, which equal more meat.
It's touching to hear some of you guys with the kind hearts. Fawns will survive just fine without thier mommies. It's odd that some won't take them at 6-7 months old but will not bat an eye a year later at 18-19 months old. Thier own daddies would kill them to spend time with mommie come the last week of October to the first week of November.
I'm beginning to sound like Uncle Ted.
"I do find it odd people abstain from killing fawns but have no problem with young, tender rabbits, squirrels and "eatin' size" fish. Heck, they actually covet the young of other species. Illogical"
I concur, I'm suprised at the persistant thought process in this thread. It's no wonder deer populations in most places are increasing.
I have NEVER shot a doe here in MI that did not seem to be lactating. IMO the vast majority of does around here have 2-3 fawns and maybe 1-2 surving by the time the season rolls around. By mid october, those little ones are sometimes seen with mom and sometimes not. They also are mostly browsing and only occasionaly nursing at this time. They are not dependant on milk any more. The point is, if you are shooting a doe, and you should, you are most likly 'orphaning' something.
Although it's just fine feeling a bit of sadness for taking a life, we are partaking in a necessary and difficult ritual. So unless you are in a depressed area (deer pop), you should get over it and be happy. That's how I roll, lol.
Bill in MI
There is research that shows that buck fawns have better survival when the doe is shot. The reason is the doe doesn't force the buck out the next year so he doesn't have to disperse to an unfamiliar area.
It seems like all does around my neck of the woods have fawns. Last year I shot a yearling doe that didn't have a fawn, but most does I've shot the last 15 years have been lactating. If I chose not to shoot a doe with fawns, I would almost never shoot a doe.
I shoot does with fawns (button bucks preferred for dispersal), catch salmon in the fall, panfish in the spring, hen turkeys in the fall with youngsters around them, etc ect.. Hell I would shoot the Easter bunny during rabbit season ;)
nope, nope just can't do it.
yes, but only if I can't get a shot at the fawn
I have shot does with fawns before if the fawns are not spotted....don't much like to but I have.
Like JTV and Norseman, I will shoot a doe with fawns, ESPECIALLY if she has a buck fawn with her.
OFFHNTN
I always try to fill my antlerless tags first with a Mature doe (doe with one or more fawns) to keep them from displacing buck offspring. I pass on fawns early in the season in hopes of getting a mature doe but If my antlerless tag is still open as rifle season approaches I will fill it with a fawn if I can get a good look at it to make sure its not a button buck. I have read that even in areas with good habitat about 40% of the fawns do not make it through the winter. So i fugure by taking the doe fawn the chances of a buck fawn making it through the winter are better.
Id shoot it and enjoy a nice steak on the grill.
Just like holding out for a nice buck, I hold out for a doe without fawns!
How do you know she doesn't have fawns? Bill in MI
This year I shot my first doe ever here in Michigan that was not full of milk. Every other one for the past 30 years has been producing milk. Even into December.
My point- just because the fawns are not with the doe does not mean she does not have fawns.
Very rare for any doe here in MI not to have fawns. If they do not it means they were killed by something.
Best doe to shoot is the one you have a good shot at!
All of the does that are 2.5 or older in my area have fawns, so that would limit me to shooting 1.5 year old does, which I'm not going to do. Give me a mature doe with 2 fawns in front of me, and she will be going home with me. The does will be kicking their fawns away in about 2 weeks, so I don't know what the difference is.
Very few does 2.5 and older won't have fawns - if they don't, likely something killed them. In quality habitat, many of your 1.5 yo does will have them as well - up to 50% of them in really good habitat. I don't hesitate - they'll be fine. They were weaned literally months ago.
Lee
if they dont have spots shoot her especially if she has button bucks with her
Shoot her!! she will be running the yearlings off here before to long, and if they stick around shoot them too unless one is a button. GOOOOD eating tastes better than boiled antlers.
I don't for personal reasons but survival wise they will be fine. I have done it and don't plan on doing it again. I now just wait for lone does, although shooting does with button bucks does make sense, but I still don't. Again, simply personal choice.
Yes, and sometimes I will even shoot the fawn if I get the itch to do so or if the drag will be a long one! They were put here to eat, not cry over.
I can't believe so many of you see does without fawns this time of year. The does have been bred and have fawns this time of year and there is no shame in taking them. My best friend is a wildlife biologist and encourages me to take the doe and her doe fawns. I rarely see a doe without fawns in the fall, and for reasons "bow shot" and "NRUT82" have stated I am more than willing to shoot the doe and her fawns as long as they are not button bucks.
Dang, I feel like some of you are part time tree huggers. Hunting is about having fun and management. Dead is Dead no matter if it is a fawn or a mature doe. They are still does that need to be managed. What separates man from the rest of the animal kingdom is the ability to reason. Man is the only animal with the ability to reason and therefore we care about our family. Other animals do not, they may know if one of them is not around but do not become saddened and depressed. Within a few minutes they have forgotten and move on!!!
I don't mean to be rude or harsh but these are the facts, manage wildlife or let someone else do it.
shoot the fawns. they have the highest mortality rate anyway.
"They were put here to eat, not cry over."
-Amen. My wife is a science teacher with an Environmental Studies Concentration. She has a favorite phrase when referring to certain critters: "Feeder species." I believe that fits nicely when referring to deer. :)
Wow!When I posted this thread yesterday,I was'nt sure what the response would be.I gotta say Im impressed.First off,lets get something straight:I am not opposed to shooting Does,and am not crying about it St.Croix.I try to fill my Doe tags every year.I know most mature Does probably have fawns,and that alot of the time the fawns are not with the Doe but are close buy.I am sure I have orphaned plenty of fawns over the years and did'nt even realize it.Yesterday,was the first time in 15 years of Bowhunting that I had ever gone to shoot a Doe with the fawns right by her side.Something just would'nt let me squeeze the trigger.Ive been questioning myself ever since.I mean I have watched Does and fawns walk buy before.Ive never felt bad about any deer i've shot in the past.Maybe its age,maybe its having children of my own.Never the less,thanks for the large response. slim
Buck fawns don't care. I spined a doe with two fawns a couple years ago. The bumpy headed one kept eating beans the whole time. The doe fawn went over and licked the mom, then went back to eating beans. Since we have too high of concentration of does, we try to shoot the mature does, as the youg ones are dumber and don't have twins.
Buck fawns don't care. I spined a doe with two fawns a couple years ago. The bumpy headed one kept eating beans the whole time. The doe fawn went over and licked the mom, then went back to eating beans. Since we have too high of concentration of does, we try to shoot the mature does, as the young ones are dumber and don't have twins.
Buck fawns don't care. I spined a doe with two fawns a couple years ago. The bumpy headed one kept eating beans the whole time. The doe fawn went over and licked the mom, then went back to eating beans. Since we have too high of concentration of does, we try to shoot the mature does, as the young ones are dumber and don't have twins.
When I do go after the does I prefer to shoot ones with fawns. This way I ensure myself that I am harvesting a mature doe. Also, I am looking for a doe with twin buck fawns. If you harvest this doe those fawns will call this property home forever. If the doe is not harvested then those buck fawns will be run off by the mother in the spring (before her next set of fawns arrives). The doe only runs off buck fawns, this is natures way of ensuring the imbreeding is kept minimal. These buck fawns typically travel about 3-5 miles from their place of birth.
I am not saying to harvest every doe with buck fawns on your property, but if your mission is to shoot a doe, it makes sense to take one with buck fawns.
I like to shoot at least one doe fawn a year. The meat is just so tender! Always shoot the doe first though or she could really screw up that particular stand site.
Sometimes and sometimes not. I passed up a doe with small twin fawns this year. I figured with high predator numbers and a few hard winters the past couple of years the smaller fawns might have a better chance surviving to maturity with the doe around for a couple more months. About five minutes later another doe and fawn came past. That fawn acted a whole lot more independent and the doe kicked the fawn away when it tried to nurse. I shot the doe, she went down out in the field. I stayed in my stand for another hour and the her fawn and several other deer fed unconcerned within 10-20 yards of the dead deer until dark.
The fact is there are very few dry does without fawns(for whatever reason)in any herd. The only way someone can say they do not shoot does(on a regular or semi regular basis) that have fawns and have it be true is to never shoot does. Often the fawns are near the doe, but not with her. To be sure of one being dry would require for most to scout for, identify and target a particular doe - something I am sure few if any do on a regular basis.
SteveBNY
Sorry Slim, didn't mean to insinuate that you cry over them, but many people do. I think some people never get over their childhood images of Bambi? Hard to shoot the poor little fella when he's had it so rough, LOL! Something to do with giving animals human characteristics and emotion...
Absolutely! First of all, it is the best way to keep from shooting button bucks. "Fawns" are old enough to make it through the season by the fall.
No hard feelings St.Croix.To be honest with you,I think alot of you guys might have changed my opinion on the subject.I thought the fawns might depend on the Doe to get through there 1st winter.I guess I was wrong to believe that.I will still hope for that lone Doe to walk in,but don't think I will hesitate if fawns are present.The fawns still get a pass from me.I do not butcher my own deer,and could'nt deal with the embarressment of having to bring a 40# fawn to the taxidermy.The guy would laugh me right out of his store.But hey,to each his own....
Any deer processor who laughs at you should get the old pimp slap, or at least one less customer for his stupidity. Shoot what you like Slim, but don't be ashamed of taking a fawn or small doe.
+ 1, Norseman. If I worried what others thought, I wouldn't hunt at all.
Don't shoot does or their fawns for two years and counting now. I'm disproving the notion that you can't have 100 deer per sq mile and have a monster buck herd yearly!!! I own almost a sq mile.....all woods (diverse), ag surrounded, ponds, and lots of high protein or high carb plots in the forest.
Killing a doe here is like killing 3 deer with each shot. Thats not going to happen. I want to have the incubators.
Mind you...i have a 1-1 ratio of does to bucks. S o we did kill alot of does in years past.
I have shot a doe who had 2 fawns with her, she dropped on the spot, the fawns came back to look for her and I was able to take one of them also. Great eating, and very exciting hunting.
If the fawns have lost their spots.....Mom gets it. Not a 2nd thought. If it's by itself and has no spots...and I got a doe tag....the little one gets it too. They eat great.
Last night, 6:53 I hear a rustle and see a good doe enter my food plot, followed by her fawn. My first thought is "Great, stuck here till they leave."...then the other doe walked out. No fawn in tow. 2 minutes later and a quartering shot. Dry doe down.
It's good to have options.
No but wonnabees do. Wonnabe a bow hunter. A gun hunter shot one a doe and a 40lbs fawn with spots this last weekend. No law against but the Game Warden socked it him on another charge that they normally give just a warning on. Way to go Mr. Game Warden. I could undersatand if was survival but it wasn't.
Not NO but H@%% NO, This is the reason hunter get bad raps when people see guys roll up with a 35,40,50lbs Deer and the check station.Just my 2cents, Let them grow, Kids need there MOMS.....
so only wanna be bowhunters shoot doe? (B4lite)that dont sound right-Alot of real bowhunters shoot doe, fawn or whatever they can-I do and dont feel any guilt-I guess Im a wannabe.I love every kill i get, and enjoy eating them all
B4LITE - is that info from the official bowhunter manual? I've never seen it - can you tell us where to get a copy?
Cracker - did you shed a tear watching Bambi reruns this weekend? Moms and kids are human terms - didn't realize hunters now had to reconize human emotions in animals.
SteveBNY
B4LITE and CRACKER - nice- u guys work for peta? they are animals-we are the top of the food chain- u ever eat an egg?
No I don't shoot anything with younguns... however, speaking of deer here in Hawaii, it's been rare that if you have a doe without fawns, that they are not carrying, and frequently, maybe even most often when you cut them open, the first thing that pops out is fawn.
That is the problem with all year breeding, and all year hunting.
Aloha...
I don't shoot does at all. Don't have a problem with guys that do shoot them but if the little ones have spots, leave them alone.
lol at some of you guys that feel bad about shooting fawns, spotted or otherwise. Why let it live another year? So that it can experience life? Do you think it's going to fall in love and raise a family? Do you think it is going to revel in the glory of beautiful sunset, or be filled with a sense of awe at the sight of a rainbow? lol. It's food folks, plain and simple. Quit trying to anthropomorphize a perfectly legitimate protein source.
Spotted ones are illegal here. But, I suspect, if you rubbed a little the white hairs would come out by this time of the year. My brother passed a spike in Georgia because he had spots...had 3 inches of polished antler...AND spots.
I have killed more deer then you can shake a stik and if a doe comes by me and it has no fawns she will get it but all im say n is if its got fawns,let them walk, and im far from a PETA....But i do like Pam Anderson.
I guess the PETA crack is out of line.Its just the phrase "kids need there moms" that bugs me. They are animals. To each their own good huntin
CRACKER, you must live in some kind of special wonder land because where I hunt (Iowa, Illinois) almost every doe that walks by me has at least 1 if not 2 fawns following her in October and November if not later. If I had to wait for a dry doe to walk by every time I wanted to kill a doe, my freezer would never be full.
Deer are prey for humans and other predators, and do not have human emotions!!! When the doe that gave birth to them leaves they are fine. Only Humans have Mommys.
By the time fall rolls around, fawns are mature enough to live on browse and fast enough to evade most predators, like any other deer. I saw a fawn outrun a mountain lion a few weeks ago. Most fawns, if momma gets shot, will just hook up with a different doe group in the area anyway. The only concern is that if they don't join another doe group, they won't have the benefit of their mother's experience in detecting coyotes and such, this doesn't remotely mean they are sure to get eaten, though. They have their own set of keen ears, eyes, and nose. Yes, some fawns are still nursing this time of year, but they don't need to be to survive. Some children still nurse after they have a full set of teeth.
In the end, if it bothers you, don't do it.
"Kids need there MOMS....." ROTFLMAO!
But it's OK to shoot their dads? That's some screwed up logic. Where does it stop? Great argument for PETA, if you think so or not. They have you accepting a large part of their premise already.
They are animals. We kill animals and eat them. Life. Wild, domestic, doesn't matter. A similar argument could be made it's only OK to eat domestic animals becasue they were raised for that purpose. Somehow their lives are less important than wild animals? Ridiculous.
Any time you start assigning greater importance to an animals life solely because of age or sex you're headed down a very slippery PETA slope. Vertical even. It's exactly the kind of argument they want to start the conversation with. They want you to assign human values and traits and eventually rights to animals. A little at a time if that's the only way for now.
The ONLY time that age and sex should EVER come into play is for sound biologic wildlife management purposes. If you have the tags for it, dump em with an arrow. If you're freezer is full make some neighbors or co-workers happy.
Choose what you shoot by your own criteria. For the table or for the wall. It's your tag, it's your choice. Period. If it bothers you to shoot a fawn or a doe with a fawn, then don't. You won't be hurting anyone's feelings. Nobody's making you, well except for "earn a buck tag" program or something. Sound biological reasons.
But to tell someone they're killing someones mom?.... well, what group does that sound like to you???
BTW, do folks have any idea what % of every fast food hamburger is veal??? (I forget off hand but it was quite a bit if I remember.) Much less how much was somebody's mother? Guess we should only be grillin' up steers...
I've shot plenty of does w/ fawns and even allowed them to walk at times. I've let several deer of varying age and sex walk one day to decide to whack them the next. Never cared to shoot the fawn.....not out of sympathy.....just doesn't seem to be enough meat to burn a tag.
How many kids are on this site????? Has to be plenty w/ some of the statements I see made.
"wonnabees" what the heck is that? Are you sure your over 14?
On another subject matter that continues to be mentioned, preventing disbursement of buck fawns. Am I wrong in believing that the disbursement of buck fawns by the doe is natures way of reducing in-breding (not sure how else to state that)? Yeah its nice to keep em at home, but if it is detrimental to the health of the herd............??
Maybe that isn't true, but somehow I have been given that impression from some of the documents/articles I've read.
Hey, within a week or so the fawns will be chased away from mom for a few weeks for the rut. We've all seen fawn herds from two to 10 in November. They make it fine together.
It's the way it's gone for centuries.
You think Mother Nature would have designed it like that if the fawns couldn't survive?
I'm sure he'd sell em before he rented em to ya!
Writer, this seems more true for muley deer, but still happens in WT society. I didn't think to mention that in my post, but I have certainly seen fawn groups in late fall as well.
One last thought on this subject, I don't fault anybody for choosing not to shoot does with fawns. We're human, and as such we're equiped with a conscience and emotions. Those of us who have spent piles and piles of time watching, tracking, and hunting deer really should all agree that this issue is based on emotion and not biological fact. However, somebody choosing not to do something because it bugs their conscience is human and okay.
"somebody choosing not to do something because it bugs their conscience is human and okay"
I agree.
I just shot a doe with two bb fawns! No, I don't feel guilty
"The ONLY time that age and sex should EVER come into play is for sound biologic wildlife management purposes. If you have the tags for it, dump em with an arrow. If you're freezer is full make some neighbors or co-workers happy."
"Those of us who have spent piles and piles of time watching, tracking, and hunting deer really should all agree that this issue is based on emotion and not biological fact."
Excellent points, that ultimately say the same thing. Here in the suburbs of PA, deer are a huge problem. The game commission keeps on issuing more and more tags in hopes of solving it, and there are plenty of hunters to get the job done, but most have the "I don't shoot does", or "I don't shoot does with fawns", or "I don't shoot fawns" mentality.
In some places, landowners are literally begging for the deer to be shot. These guys go in there under the false impression that they will get the job done. In reality, they just want a hunting spot, and a crack at a big buck.
These are the same guys that bitch when the sharpshooters come in and "ruin" their hunting spots. The ignorance is astounding.
I have no problem if you choose to shoot a doe w/fawns.
As I get older, just not in me. Thankfully early season I have kids that dont hesitate to take a doe w/fawns.
If I see a doe, I do not base my decision to shoot whether or not I see her fawns because even if I don't see the fawns, many times they are around, just not close enough to see. My opinion is that if you shoot does, then you will orphan fawns most of the time. I think this is just fine as the fawn will survive with no problem. I think it is silly to think that if you see a solo doe that she doesn't necessarily have fawns. Good hunting!
