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White Deer Herd !!!!!!

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Messages posted to thread:
Ole Coyote 06-Jan-10
KJC 06-Jan-10
thesquid 06-Jan-10
Russ Koon 06-Jan-10
Ron 06-Jan-10
jhelton 06-Jan-10
fuzzy 06-Jan-10
Ron 06-Jan-10
bowriter 06-Jan-10
squirell hunter 06-Jan-10
Ron 06-Jan-10
KJC 06-Jan-10
Wages 06-Jan-10
Bou'bound 06-Jan-10
JayG 06-Jan-10
TradTech 06-Jan-10
squirell hunter 06-Jan-10
DaleM 07-Jan-10
DaleM 07-Jan-10
Jon Simoneau 07-Jan-10
Ron 07-Jan-10
bowriter 07-Jan-10
SteveB 07-Jan-10
Extreme 07-Jan-10
fuzzy 07-Jan-10
beauceron 07-Jan-10
bowriter 07-Jan-10
beauceron 08-Jan-10
speedbow`20 08-Jan-10
Ron 08-Jan-10
bowriter 08-Jan-10
speedbow`20 08-Jan-10
Zbone 08-Jan-10
Ron 08-Jan-10
Russ Koon 08-Jan-10
bowriter 09-Jan-10
beauceron 09-Jan-10
Ron 09-Jan-10
bowriter 09-Jan-10
beauceron 09-Jan-10
beauceron 09-Jan-10
beauceron 09-Jan-10
beauceron 09-Jan-10
beauceron 09-Jan-10
beauceron 09-Jan-10
Rob in VT 09-Jan-10
bowriter 09-Jan-10
Ron 10-Jan-10
bowriter 10-Jan-10
Ron 10-Jan-10
beauceron 10-Jan-10
Genesis 11-Jan-10
fuzzy 11-Jan-10
Genesis 11-Jan-10
Ron 11-Jan-10
fuzzy 11-Jan-10
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From: Ole Coyote Date: 06-Jan-10

Ole Coyote's Supporting Link

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/video/flv/generic.html?s=inwi10s22a3q81f

This maybe old news but it was new to me today when I received it in an e-Mail from a friend. Awesome!!

Stay well !!

From: KJC Date: 06-Jan-10
Protecting geneticly inferior animals. That makes a lot of sense!

From: thesquid Date: 06-Jan-10
Put them in a CWD area and see what happens.

From: Russ Koon Date: 06-Jan-10
These deer are the genetically superior ones, the new breed of deer camo'ed for the upcoming Ice Age.

From: Ron Date: 06-Jan-10
You may have meant that in Jest, Russ but you may have hit it on the head. All life has a hidden genetic code that we don't fully understand. I guess it depends on if you are a fan of Darwin or not. Arctic fox, the polar bear, white seals can all be traced back to another species and only the white ones can survive in the far north and reproduce.

From: jhelton Date: 06-Jan-10
Gotta love those goofy liberal cooks who promote dum@$$ laws that protect animals like this. They are a deer, nothing special, just a dang deer. Beautiful yes, but even more beautiful on my wall!!!

J

From: fuzzy Date: 06-Jan-10
walkerhound, these (white deer) are deer, not people. And it's a species survival defect, not an artificial, arbitrary, and imaginary distinction as in the situation I assume you are referring to (Nazi-occupied Europe).

From: Ron Date: 06-Jan-10
They claim that only 20% of us are hunters and dwindling every year. The other 80% may not hunt but do enjoy wildlife so why pi$$ them off? Don't think it has anything to do with democracy or Fascist. It does make you think about Gore's book on global warming with all of our deer,squirrels and moose turning white.

From: bowriter Date: 06-Jan-10
Actually, albanism is a genetic mistake. They are genetically inferior but only in terms of color. The same is true of piebald deer. Many states protect albino animals and in my opinion, it is a mistake.

We have a town here with a large population of albino squirrels. They are protected and now most of the squirrels around there are albinos.

The reference to Hitler was tasteless and completely off the mark.

From: squirell hunter Date: 06-Jan-10
inferior my a$$ come on down to romulus ny. and try and get one.there is nuthing inferior about them.they r just as wily as any whitetail out there .they will give even the best hunters a run for the money

From: Ron Date: 06-Jan-10
I would like to think it is a natural thing rather than a genetic mistake. All life is made up with these back up systems that will guaranty the survival of a certain species. Humans have learned to explore this with our domestic animals. They claim a dog is nothing more than a wolf that has developed over the years from controlled breeding. Look at the wild turkey. It came from North America years ago and went to Europe when it came back it couldn't fly and had turned white. By guess is if North America ever does return to a big ice slab the only deer to survive would be the white ones.

From: KJC Date: 06-Jan-10
"Merely pointing out the ignorance of the original post"

I wasn't the original poster, so much for my ignorance.

Deer hair changes color throughout the year for better camoflauge as thier environment changes. If they can't blend they are more likely to be killed by a predator. That is a defect. That's science not fascism. I double checked my post and I couldn't find where I called them an abomination. To compare what I wrote to the nazis treatment of the jews is disgusting. Hunters falsely giving human characteristics to the animals we hunt and kill is the abomination!

From: Wages Date: 06-Jan-10
I believe the origin of many states that protect white deer comes out of sensitivity to Native American religious traditions that regard white deer to part of their ancestry and prophecy.

As far as being inferior I think most of that data has not supported that albinism is really not any expression of inferior genes. Albinism does require the presence of a pair of recessive genes to be expressed, and many people seem to interpret recessive as inferior, which is not the same thing.

neat story eitherway, thanks for sharing it

From: Bou'bound Date: 06-Jan-10
They claim that only 20% of us are hunters and dwindling every year.

the number of hunters in the US is a long far cry from 20%!

there are 3M bowhunters in a population of 280M people and total hunting licenses are about 14M a year. That is about 1% bowhunters and 5% hunting overall.......and a lot of that is bird and small game.

From: JayG Date: 06-Jan-10
I think they are pretty cool. We have a herd of them in Seneca Army Depot here in NY. They have an annual hunt in there and there is a huge number of folks that put in for it because of the chance for a nice white buck. They also have some big normal deer as well.

The drawback is that it is guns only, and since I bowhunt only, I am SOL... Oh well. Jay

From: TradTech Date: 06-Jan-10
Jay - we bought several white deer years ago through one of the exotic auction events. They originally came from Seneca. An exotic breeder accessed them through permits, bred the deer for several years and sold many of them through the auctions an private sales. Of course this was a decade or so before CWD reared it ugly head. Back then exotic breeders could easily transport exotics across state lines with no problem.

The unique thing about the white deer was when we bred a white buck to a brown doe or vise-versa the does would drop one white and one brown fawn when dropping twins. When the ocassional triplets hit, usually two brown and one white were born.

The difference between the Seneca deer and the ones in WI. is the Seneca deer were "white" whitetail deer. No lack of pigmentation as in albino deer with pink eyes, nose, and hooves. The Seneca deer all have brown eyes, nose, and hooves. The bucks we raised all sported very nice antler which weren't diminished as some of the albino and piebald deer present.

From: squirell hunter Date: 06-Jan-10
the army still controls the hunts on the depot.unless u know sombody in the county u have had to been in the army worked there or r cin the army now. they limit white deer to a lottery system not just anybody can shoot one u have to draw a tag.considering the amount of coyotes inside the fence they must be real lousy hunters to have not killed all those white ones already.lol

From: DaleM Date: 07-Jan-10

DaleM's embedded Photo

Got a photo of one a few years ago. I live near Chicago and there is a fair herd of white deer on the Argonne National Laboratory grounds. They are fallow deer not whitetails. Either way I'm about 18 miles from there and happened to catch this guy roaming the area where I live. Not a great pic but he had a nice rack.

From: DaleM Date: 07-Jan-10

DaleM's embedded Photo

Got this pic right before my batteries went dead.

From: Jon Simoneau Date: 07-Jan-10
It kills me...but I have a trail camera photo of a B&C albino Illinois buck, and I cannot find it!!!!!!!!! Absolutely one of the best pictures I have. It's here somewhere, but I don't know what the hell I did with it. I got this photo near Carmi, Illinois, years ago when I was younger. You would think I would have been smart enough to make several copies of it!

From: Ron Date: 07-Jan-10

Ron's embedded Photo

Was this it?

From: bowriter Date: 07-Jan-10
Scientifically, both albanism and melanism are genetic defaults or mistakes. They certainly are inferior in terms of color. They have no natural comouflage, and that is an inferior trait. The same is true in all animals. It does not mean the animal is inferior, it means the color, genetic trait is inferior. In my opinion, to prtect for this trait is a mistake the same as protecting two-headed pigs.

Scientists and biologists look at things a tad differently from many hunters and the general public.

From: SteveB Date: 07-Jan-10
It may be a "draw" at Seneca, but its absolutely amazing how many LE and corrections officers get drawn - some repeatedly.

SteveBNY

From: Extreme Date: 07-Jan-10
a deer is a deer no matter the color we should be politicaly correct and shoot them just the same. lol wouldnt want to show favortism here.

From: fuzzy Date: 07-Jan-10
have killed one piebald..it tasted great!

From: beauceron Date: 07-Jan-10

beauceron's embedded Photo

May white deer on the ground

From: bowriter Date: 07-Jan-10
Obviosly, that is not a whitetail but a fallow deer. many of them are white.

From: beauceron Date: 08-Jan-10
BOWRITER i now that is not a whiteldeer bat in may country we dont hewe eny whiteldeer bat we hawe a lot of fallow deer ewry year we get meyby one or two white sow they are not some coment in may country in europa is olsow a big herd of white red deer 150 animals i will tray too luck a link to them . JURE

From: speedbow`20 Date: 08-Jan-10
What`d he say?

From: Ron Date: 08-Jan-10
I suspect that Beauceron is from an other country and may just speak and write in another language. I suspect that we would may have trouble writing in his language as well. Welcome to the site Beauceron, where are you from?

From: bowriter Date: 08-Jan-10
I don't know where he is from but I thought he did pretty good. I understood what he said (wrote) and I'm pretty sure if I tried to write in his language, he wouldn't have a clue.

We had fallow deer here for a few years, most were white. Didn't take long to kill them all.

From: speedbow`20 Date: 08-Jan-10
Now that I re-read it...it would appear he must be from overseas...I`m guessing Norway.

From: Zbone Date: 08-Jan-10

Zbone's embedded Photo

The attached photo was taken this summer from an exotic farm just down the road from me of a couple fallow deer from both ends of the spectrum.

"We had fallow deer here for a few years, most were white. Didn't take long to kill them all."

bowriter - Remember when I was a youngster, older hunting buddies used to make a trip to hunt public (Land Between the Lakes, I believe it was) for whitetails and fallow deer.

Had read they discontinued allowing the fallow to be hunted, but didn't know they were all gone?

“Scientifically, both albanism and melanism are genetic defaults or mistakes. They certainly are inferior in terms of color. They have no natural comouflage, and that is an inferior trait. The same is true in all animals. It does not mean the animal is inferior, it means the color, genetic trait is inferior”

Couldn’t agree more with you…

From: Ron Date: 08-Jan-10
I would say he is from France. Beauceron, his handle is a name of a French herd dog. That is cool, neat to have some one on here from an other country.

From: Russ Koon Date: 08-Jan-10
I was kidding with my post above, but after thinking it over some more, I wonder if the white coloration is such a disadvantage in the northern areas of the country.

Where the gun season opens during a time of year when snow cover would be normal, with man the primary predator now, the white might work out to be an advantage in some areas.

From: bowriter Date: 09-Jan-10
Russ- it may be an advatge in the winter but it certainly is a disadvantage other times. That is why ptarmagain and rabbits change colors.

Yes-the fallow deer were at LBL. I believe they are all gone now. I saw a year or so ago, one on the side of the road here in Middle Tn. Went home to get my camera and by the time I got back, he was gone. Found out he was an escaped pet from a farm near here. I have several white turkeys living in my backyard. I wish I could them and about 100 of the others. This morning there were over 200 in the yard. Worse than a plague of locusts.

From: beauceron Date: 09-Jan-10

beauceron's embedded Photo

Boys im from Slovenia this is small country in Europa. Yes Ron you re right Beauceron is a French dog he i a greyt workig dog end wrily nice with a children he just look evil bat in his heart its nice dog i houp thed you andersted ewrytig i do may best one photo of may dog Blum ol the best Jure

From: Ron Date: 09-Jan-10
That is so cool Beauceron. I didn't even realize that the Bow Site even went to Europe or that Europeans followed it. Rather than hijack this thread why don't you start a thread on bow hunting in other countries like yours. I like a lot of others would love to hear stories about how far bow hunting has expanded and What you hunt.

I did do some research on the Fallow deer and apparently the Fallow deer has roots that goes back long before the time of Christ. It sounds like the Romans captured and restocked the Fallow deer to hunt all across Europe. The fact that white ones are quite common perhaps has something to do with selective breeding years ago. My guess is that this may be the cause of the White tail as well.

From: bowriter Date: 09-Jan-10
Welcome to the site. Keep posting. I assume bowhunting islegal in Slovena? Do you hunt mostly during daylight? I know in much of that part of the world, hunting is done mostly at night.

By the way, don't woryy about you spelling. We'll figure it out.

From: beauceron Date: 09-Jan-10

beauceron's embedded Photo

As i promised some photos of white red deer in Europa is one flock of white deer whu liws fre range end one who liws in fence some photos

From: beauceron Date: 09-Jan-10

beauceron's embedded Photo

From: beauceron Date: 09-Jan-10

beauceron's embedded Photo

From: beauceron Date: 09-Jan-10

beauceron's embedded Photo

From: beauceron Date: 09-Jan-10

beauceron's embedded Photo

From: beauceron Date: 09-Jan-10

beauceron's embedded Photo

From: Rob in VT Date: 09-Jan-10
Cool pics beauceron! Welcome to BowSite.

From: bowriter Date: 09-Jan-10
Now that right there is pretty neat and I don't have a clue where Slovena is.

From: Ron Date: 10-Jan-10
Slovenia is a small country and boarders the east of Northern Italy and south of Austria and Hungary.

From: bowriter Date: 10-Jan-10
I'm probably not smarter than 5th grader :)

From: Ron Date: 10-Jan-10
I'm not sure but believe that Slovenia has not been a country that long 1991 or something like that. My guess with that time line it may have been a part of the USSR at one time. I Googled it and it has some beautiful country with high mountains, clear streams and beautiful lakes.

From: beauceron Date: 10-Jan-10
A part of Jugoslavia not USSR we hawe some beautiful country with high mountains, clear streams and beautiful lakes end sea.

From: Genesis Date: 11-Jan-10
Truly Albinistic deer/animals should be protected as they have very poor vision from the lack of pigment.

From: fuzzy Date: 11-Jan-10
Genesis, I don't follow your logic?

From: Genesis Date: 11-Jan-10
The trait is recessive so their genetic pool is essentially non existant.

Their life cycle is very short as well usually.Whether we shoot them will not impact the incidence.

I would personally elect to pass block in taking these animals as the "adoption" of these deer is pretty strong to the voting public.

To me,kicking the door down and shooting them because we can, would be missing an opportunity to bring light to the species.

Maybe I'm a wuss,but greater good would be had to let the albinos walk.

I'm saying just albino not piebald.

From: Ron Date: 11-Jan-10
I think he was just using a little humor. Can't see well so easier to hunt.

I don't believe I have ever read exactly where our white tail and mule deer ever came from. Are they related to the European deer? The reason they are white usually is because of close interbreeding. It happens in squirrels, mice and numerous other animals.

Look at our selves, could be that we too were born white with blue eyes and red hair and were driven north out of Africa. I can hear the village elders now when they first saw us.

From: fuzzy Date: 11-Jan-10
Genesis exactly, albino and piebald are quite different.

I understand your reasoning now, and have no problem with it as stated, ie: a personal choice.

For my part (personal choice) I prefer to as much as possible, fill the role of natural predator. I will take the young and the weak, when the opportunity presents. (provided this does not conflict with local law or legitimate management goals)


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Subject: RE: White Deer Herd !!!!!!

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