Bowsite.com

1. Do bulls bark? I have yet to hear one, always cows

2. Do bulls wallow more because of heat or rutting? It seemed like, although hot, I saw less wallowing in early ocotober even though it was 75.

3. Some of the bulls I hear have a really really deep bugle, the kind where I am standing there thinking "there is NO WAY a person can make that sound" all the times I know of it was a mature bull, ever had a young bull make a really deep bugle?

4. Will moose and elk water together at a pond or will the elk avoid the exact spot the moose are, or general area?

5. Do elk avoid stagnant water (drinking)? I noticed that there was much more elk sign where the water was not stagnant (running). Both wallowing and drinking.

Thanks,

DonV

2-They can wallow equally for both reasons. Aug. for heat, as Sept gets close & into Sept. they can be more apt to wallow for rutting purposes a bit more than heat! Oct. is not the best time for wallows!

3-Nothing like a mature bull. When you've heard thousands of bugles it's easy to pick out the mature bulls over younger bulls.

4-Seen both species interact, can't say it's an everyday occurrence but I feel it's quite common.

5-elk will drink stagnant type or wallow water no problem!

ElkNut1

regarding the stagnant water, i have never seen elk drink from it. they avoid it for the most part. even on very low flowing seeps, they always drink from where the water is moving the most (freshest).

the other reason they avoid stagnant water is more often then not they have other options, such as a stream that is not too far away.

think about it, if you needed a drink which would you prefer.

ElkNut1

2. IMO, bulls wallow more as part of the rutting ritual. However, since their hormones are starting to kick into overdrive, cooling off may be a secondary benefit.

3. Generally, older bulls have a deeper bugle, but like most things, there are exceptions. I've seen large herd bulls that sounded like a young raghorn, and I've seen young raghorns that sounded much bigger than they actually were. Either way, I always investigate and let my eyes verify one way or the other.

4. Don't know. Where I hunt there are both, but I've never seen moose and elk in close proximity, so can't say.

5. Won't say they avoid stagnant water, but I agree given the choice they would probably prefer running water. I've never seen an elk drink out of a wallow, so any guess on my part would be pure speculation.

We had blown out the herd bull by charging in stomping and screaming into the bedded herd [hey- worth a try!] and split them up. We started to cow call to bring them back together and had what must have been a hot cow come to 10' of us with this sat bull whining right on her tail.

My favorite close in sound they make is that popping- like when you hit the end of a grunt tube with the palm of your hand.

When I say you can generally tell a mature bull from a non-mature bull it's all relevant. What one hunter may hear sounds big to him because he has little experience in the elk woods. What is big to you?

As an example to this, I've taken countless hunters out over the years, there are times with hunters with less experience in hearing either bugles or bull sounds in general think what they've heard was a big bull & I'll turn to them & say that was a raggie or small 5 point & they'd say you've got to be kidding me! So you see it's all in what you've heard over the years or what is the situation at hand that ones compare too what they're hearing in the woods then!

I'm not saying a guy cannot be fooled including myself, but for the most part piece of cake to distinguish one from another just like you can identify one sound from another.

I've watched elk shows on the outdoor channels where you hear this huge bull just screaming 4-5 times in the shallow distance & the hunter moves through the timber to get closer & here comes this raghorn & the hunter will say holy cow I would've thought that was a much bigger bull than that from the bugling heard! In actuality that was not the bull they heard at all but what they came across was a satellite that was hanging around or flanking the herd! Things like this are common & guys tag what sound they heard on the wrong bull.

As far as elk drinking nice clean creek water or nasty wallow water, just remember this. It's only nasty to us because we wouldn't ever do it no more than would we lick dirt with minerals in it for 30min to 45 min at a time & then lick our chops like it was some sort of pudding! (grin) But elk do this all the time without even washing it down at all. They don't think twice about it but head to these types of areas regularly!

In addition to this we have an area called the "stinkhole" & only God knows why the elk like it & drink from it, it is so putrid in smell (sulfur) it's hard to stomach at times when we go there but guess what? Elk love that spot & drink from it regularly!

I shared 20-30 photos last year from my trail cam that showed all these elk at this very small watering hole & it too stunk like hell, but I've watched them slurp this crap up & have photos of it too as they're licking their lips over this great cocktail! (grin) Maybe some of you remember those photos? I can find them if any would like to see?

So, point being, never under estimate what elk will do or drink, that can surprise or even shock you! (grin)

ElkNut1

Also the elk did avoid stagnant water - there was alway fresh running water around, they did drink and wallow - but drank far more from the cleaner running water - I wanted to be sure other observed the same.

In 2 years I'll go back with both a moose and elk tag in my pocket.

We killed one bull (rifle) and I passed on a questionalble shot.

Good hunting!

Bill in MI

Grunt, pant, snort, bugle, pant, bugle, make a noise that sounds like a big belch, snort, bugle, stomp, rake a tree, pant... loud and crazy! Lot of fun, though. Unfortunately, I can't say I delivered on either one. Last year, I tried to sneak closer and got seen, this year, a cow with the bull mosied around the brush and I got seen.

One thing's for sure, there's nothing like elk. They're pretty unique critter.

ElkNut1

2. My experience would lend more towards the rut kicking in the wallowing. The 2 times I have hunted in Arizona I didn't notice any wallowing until the rut started kicking in. With summer temps in the 90's and 100's, if heat was the reason, one would think they would wallow year round! I do think that the rut causes the bulls to get hot and that wallowing does offer some relief though.

3. I have been fooled both ways by bugles. We almost walked away from a puny sounding bugle in Arizona that turned out to be a 390" bull I'm glad we didn't walk away from. This year, we dropped into an absolute nightmare of a hole chasing a growler. We knew he was going to be a monster...with 25 cows and a bugle to match...he walked out and was barely a 5-point, and a very young one at that!

4. The area we hunt used to have a lot of moose...wolves have changed that, but in the past we often had moose following us grunting while we were bugling at elk.

5. A lot of the wallows we frequent seem to be stagnant, but they are actually water from an underground spring. I wouldn't consider them "stagnant", but they aren't a free-flowing body of water either. Either way, I have seen elk drink out of anything from a mud puddle in a road, to a completely stagnant pond, to a fresh-water river.

Corey

A cat track would have two lobes on the top (or front) of the heel pad, and three lobes on the back of the heel pad. Also, there would be no claw indentations.

A wolf track would be about a lot bigger, about 5-6" in length.

I say if they aren't barking at you now and then, you are not trying hard enough. :-)

Seem to have a bull bark at me most years as I get pretty aggressive and blow some stalks. Named one of them "Bob Barker" as he barked probably 25 times as he headed away from me.