Mad_Angler's Link
I stole this idea from a wilderness canoe forum (BWCA.com). The authors posed a series of typical but hypothetical situations to see how experienced travlers would handle different situations. The exercise was very useful. Folks got to hear several different opinions and viewpoints. More importantly, it got folks to think about such a scenario from the safety of their keyborad.
So, here is the first scenario... a deep cut while dressing an elk...
It is 4pm. The weather forecast is a high of 60 during the day and a low of 30 at night. No rain is forecast.
You are on day 4 of a 10 day solo elk trip. Several folks know your general location but no one expects to hear from you for 2-3 more days.
You are at 9,000 feet in Colorado. You are currently 4 miles from your truck. There were 4-5 other groups parked fairly close to your truck. You've seen a few other hutners in the woods but not in this particular drainage.
You shot a nice elk. He ran 30 yards and died in a tangle of small trees. You tagged him and started the process. You're almost done with the top side. Your knife slips and hits your thigh. You get a large cut. It is about 3 inches long and about an inch deep (your knife was very sharp). The blood starts pouring out. But the blood is not spurting.
Additional information: You're camp is about a mile away. You only have the following gear:
- bow and arrows
- currently wearing decent base layer and one more layer. In your pack you have a slightly heavier coat, a hat, and gloves.
- survivial kit in a nalgene bottle: space blanket, knife, lighter, tinder, duct tape (3 feet wrapped around the nalgene bottle), 50' of paracord, signal mirror, whistle, water treatment pills, 2 snack bars
- water: about 1/2 liter left in your hydration bladder
- food: a few cliff bars
- first aid kit: bandaids, butterfly bandages, ibuprofin, antibiotic cream
So what do you do?
Next time, have some super glue to close the wound.
Helo
I accidently stabbed my knife into my wrist about a half inch deep while deboning an elk.
Wet wipes, super glue, paper towel and duct tape took care of it for me.
If it were a life threatening issue, I'd get out as fast as possible and find the closest help.
I would have a suture kit and staples, too, back at the camp ... but not with me. Sutures are not going to "make or break" a survival situation. Duct tape does that.
I'm a physician, and people are often worried about closing the wound with sutures -- they want those stitches in pronto. But that's not really necessary. There is nothing magical about stitches, and in fact, they may not be as strong as -- duct tape. And if you're walking out, you'll need a strong closure.
What Duct tape won't do is close the deep portions of the wound, and you could get a "pocket" that will fill with fluid and cause slow wound healing. That's nothing to worry about "now" ... deal with that later.
Here's what I would do: Close the wound with duct tape, then put some clothing over the top, and wrap again with duct tape. I would test to see if anything is "broken", i.e. did a tendon get cut and make a non-functional muscle?
I would test the distal portion of the leg to see if it is getting blood. Either the cut or the dressing could compromise perfusion.
I would have probably irrigated it, but to be honest, there's not a lot of science that says that's important ... especially with a flowing wound (it's irrigating itself.)
I would try to walk stiff-legged, i.e. without bending the knee. I'd use more duct tape if necessary around the knee to remind me. One could even make a brace around the knee.
And I would have always had a cell phone AND a SPOT unit with me -- but that's not in the question. I'd report the problem if possible, and my intended solution, i.e. walking to camp, and my ETA. Even solo, you may be able to reach someone else and tell them when to expect another call.
3" long and 1" deep sounds bad, but unless you hit the femoral artery, you're ok. (And if you did hit the femoral, well, there's not much to talk about. Hit "Oh S&*t" on the SPOT and wait for your body to be recovered.)
People seem to have the idea that if they need stitches, they need them immediately. Well, of course that is preferred. The tissues are fresh and clean and in a perfect world, that'd be best. But wounds can (and will) heal without stitches ... or the wound can be revised later if needed. I guess the thing to be clear about is that stitches are not an emergency if the bleeding has stopped.
Nonetheless ... I have a suture kit in truck and horse trailer all the time ...and use it from time to time. The last was a lady who bashed her knee on a rock while riding horses and had a "flap". Closing that allowed her to continue to compete comfortably -- but it could have waited if need be.
Super glue is a great idea ... not so great for deep wounds like this one, but for face wounds, it yields the best cosmetic results -- much better than anything else like stitches or duct tape.
Wounds are more than bleeding. Remember to treat the swelling, too. A zip-lock baggie can hold cold stream water on a wound, or better yet, snow. And elevate the wound if possible, even if intermittantly during your "exit stage left."
I'm not going to argue with John. After all he is a Dr. And I really like his thoughts on using duct tape.
OK, you are 4 miles back in so you should have everything you need to take care of your elk or deer. That should include gamebags. your cut is 3 inches long and an inch deep. You are going to be bleeding like a stuck hog even if you didn't hit an artery. If you did hit one, don't worry, you'll probably just do to sleep from loss of blood. Not all that bad of a way to go. But seriously, gamebags can make excellent compress to help stop bleedeing. also they can be used to make a sling and many other uses. If your bandages soak through with blood, don't remove them. Just add more bandage over the top of the old one. Let the medical professionals take care of getting everything off at the emergency room.
Would you do a gauze compress under the duct tape, or tape directly?
Would you apply a compress until the bleeding stopped or slowed way down before wrapping with duct tape?
Great input, thank you.
Next scenario???
Back country with a hurt leg is a bit tougher but Alaskan Game bags make great Bandages.
If you hit the artery,, Only way out of that one in this situation is a Tourny, and that means say goodbye to the leg, but hey,, it could save your life.
In 96, I was 2 miles from my spike tent, 1.5 miles from my horse, and 8 miles from my truck.. Was about 9 in the AM, and about 2 degrees. I shot an elk, and was cleaning it with a sheath knife (The reason I dont use sheath knives) and because of the blood, and cold, my hand slipped down the handle, and slid down the blade while I was in full grip.
After the initial 'Oh $hiZ" I opened up my hand, and could actually see Tendon completely severed (looked like a spaghetti O on both sides of the cut) and could see bone.
I Cut the bottom of my shirt, and closed my fingers in a half fist (the ones that were cut) and Tied a piece of my shirt over the fingers so they couldnt open up.. (Direct pressure, AND keeping any more foriegn agents out of the cut). After about an hour, tried to continue cleaning the elk, and that wasnt going to work, as my right hand was more like a club.
Walked to spike camp, waited for another member of the party, We walked to where the horse was tied, then walked to the elk. By about 5 PM, we had boned the elk.
Spent the next 6 or so hours pulling the elk out that evening, Next day pulled the camp out. I got to the ER at about 2 AM (about 41 hrs after the cut).
Antibiotics, A good soak, and a couple of hand surgeries later, It is all but a distant memory. (and a really annoying set of crooked fingers that get cold REALLY easily!) ;)
It is important to know basic first aid, and if you have a Red Cross, or an REI, Wilderness first aid is pretty important too. A lot of folks panic, and actually in most situations, Shock, and the elements will be much more dangerous than the actual injury if you cant keep a level head. As far as basic first aid in the field, Duct Tape, a couple of bandaids, I carry an eye dropper of novalsan scrub, and superglue is all you need, you have everything else with you if you improvise.
I also agree about the SPOT.. Dont call for the cavalry, unless it is truely life threatening.. I have experienced that when my Dad's PLB accidentally went off, Not something you want to put your loved ones through.. (But that is another story!)
FISH
FISH
Then get those quarters hung before he spoils!!
Anyone who hunts solo for 10-days at a time certainly isn't going to let a little scratch slow them down!!
Just kidding, great thread and topic!
I use it all year long, expecially when I start getting cracks from Wet/Dry/Wet/Dry hands and feet. Just push the cut together, put glue over the top of it, and make sure the glue is holding it together.. and then roll on!
FISH
elkmtngear's Link
Best of Luck, Jeff (Bowsite Sponsor)
sticksender,
superglue works great for glueing your skin back together and I also use it year round like fishski1 does when I get those painfull cracks in my fingers.
The way I carry my duct tape is I take a standard BIC ballpoint pen, Cut about 2 inches off of it and then I split the duct tape in half (so 1 inch thick) and I roll it onto the barrel of that pen. I make it so it is about an inch around.
Easy, small, light, just what you need. Sometimes I do a longer one, and put Electrical tape AND duct tape on it.
FISH
The hospital white does lack the macho look of duct tape though, I might have to swap it out....
I do have some duct tape wrapped around a pencil stub but mostly for odds and ends and it makes for GREAT blister first aid. The slick surface reduces friction and makes it better for that than any other tape or bandage I've seen.
Good thread. Gets the mind rolling as to being prepared.
For the duct tape, I just wrap it around the nalgene bottle. I can easily get 3-5 feet in one nice ring around the bottom of the nalgene.
In fact, he may be the closest physician if I draw elk this fall.
Be prepared....it used to be a 75 mile ride to Laramie for my father-in-law. That's a long way from help.
As they say, "All bleeding stops -- eventually".
So no worries!
It was only 1.0 inch long by 1.5 inch deep(at most!), but bled enough to get everyone's attention. He took a picture!
I bet vetwrap weighs next to nothing. I'm thinking that I'll get some to add to my pack.
The hell with the elk! I'm getting that thing bandaged up and getting myself out of there for some professional attention any way I can. This is no time for the macho bull crap. With a cut that big and deep, you need help.
Spot, cell phone, or walk, I'm out of there!!!
I would probably take a GPS reading and send my buddies in for the elk though.
Then I'd hike over to my camp and load it up in the pack and head over to my kill site. I'd load up one fourth of the meat and head out for the truck until I was done.
Once the elk was packed out, I'd ask around at the other camps back by my truck to see if any of them were doctors... (you never know) maybe one of them will have have a kit to sew yourself up or one of them could do it... either way, your hunt is over and you need to get out of there and to a doctor for some stitching up!
I always take a roll of Johnson & Johnson athletic sports tape in my pack it's light, small and has a lot of tape in it and it's some of the toughest tape around. I used it riding broncs and believe me you can mummify your cut leg and it will not come off until you get back to town. You can use it in many different ways to keep yourself operating it is amazing tape and I think it's much better than Duct tape.
I elevated my leg, packed it with toilet paper and wrapped my leg with electrical tape. Then hiked my happy tail out.
This was 5 years ago and i still have nerve damage in my leg.
Moral of story, don't pull a knife towards you.
Moral of the story, slow down and take your time especially when your getting tired and don't pull your knife toward you.
Honestly, first aid is rarely a matter of material, and almost always a matter of knowledge. Look, I'm a fairly experienced MD (15+ years) and if I have to look up things, most likely non-MDs should, too. It is very rare that you have to do something NOW to help someone.
Look, if someone has a dislocated elbow at 5:00pm, it'll still be dislocated at 5:10pm after you re-read how to put it back safely.
Take a few breaths, READ A REVIEW OF HOW TO FIX WHAT NEEDS FIXING, and then -- only then -- dive in.
If there was ONE THING that you should take, that's it. You will have enough in a basic backpack to do the rest, at least to stabilize just about anything.
ANYTHING.
Item #2: Duct tape.
If there is one thing I wouldn't leave hope without, it's duct tape.
Coban (a.k.a. vet wrap, which is cheaper) is great, too, and I carry both, but tape is more versatile.
Let's list what it can do:
Pressure on a wound.
Make a splint (with a stick)
Make sunglasses for the snow-blind
Hold together a shelter
Bind poles for a travois or stretcher
The list goes on and on (a great idea for another thread -- I'll start one in a bit.)
Honestly, it's light and you can do so many things with it.
Item #3: Epoxy of some sort. Same reasons, but better for small cuts, especially on the face. Much better cosmetic result.
Other Items: As above, first aid is rarely a matter of "stuff" ... Quik-clot is cool, but outside of combat situations, it's usefulness is limited. Duct tape, glue, safety pins, something absorbant (like clothes -- bet you already have that) and a good "unexpected-night-out kit" is all you need.
Back at camp: That's where I have the big kit with moleskin, sutures, drugs, etc.
Seriously ... I have several. They are in the pickup, the horse trailer, and my backpack.
They are small, but comprehensive. And they have ideas on improvisation, too.
Here's an amazon link:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000G80X0I/ref=s9_simh_gw_p14_d0_i2?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=1W0JQE6BN22FXBZKHTA9&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846
