onX Maps
Newbie needs arrow & broadhead help
Elk
Contributors to this thread:
PowellSixO 31-Mar-14
LINK 31-Mar-14
PowellSixO 31-Mar-14
SDHNTR(home) 31-Mar-14
PowellSixO 31-Mar-14
spotsorbetter 31-Mar-14
LINK 31-Mar-14
Chip T. 31-Mar-14
Russ Koon 31-Mar-14
Beendare 31-Mar-14
AZBUGLER 31-Mar-14
SDHNTR(home) 31-Mar-14
PowellSixO 31-Mar-14
From: PowellSixO
31-Mar-14
I was lucky enough to draw an Arizona September archery bull elk tag this year. I'm new to archery elk hunting and wanted to start the process now, so that I can be ready for the hunt. I'm wanting to ask everyones opinion on what arrows, and broadheads everyone prefers? So far I've had friends recommend easton fmj arrows, and hunter pro gold tips. Both seem to have good reviews, but I'm still lost on which exact arrow to get (weight, spine, knock, fletchings and what not). I've also had my friends recommend VPA COC broadheads. I've had 2 blade and 3 blade, vented and none vented, 100 gr and 125 gr broadheads recommended. I know that the 2 blade are supposed to penetrate more than a 3 blade, but which broadhead will fly better? As of now I'm leaning toward the VPA 125gr 3 blade vented broadhead. But I would really appreciate any help or info you guys that have hunted bull elk before could give me. Thanks!

From: LINK
31-Mar-14
I use gold tip pro hunters with a Magnus stinger buzz cut four blade but have yet to actually stick it in an elk. They do a very good job in my quiver. :) I like the VPA's but I think any quality coc head would be fine. Try to keep you arrow over 400 grains. Best of luck on your hunt.

From: PowellSixO
31-Mar-14
Thanks Link. Are you shooting the 2 blade or 4 blade buzz cuts? How do they fly? I've heard good things about the Mangus broadheads too. I like the idea of the VPA's just because theres nothing to adjust, which would eliminate any possible dummy (Me) errors. Haha.

From: SDHNTR(home)
31-Mar-14
It all depends on your set up. How many pounds are you pulling, what is your draw length? What bow?

What may work for one set up may not for another. Getting the spine right is the most important part. You will not get good results with even the best equipment if the spine is wrong.

VPA's are great broadheads and so are Gold Tip arrows. Both kill lots of elk every year.

From: PowellSixO
31-Mar-14
SDHNTR(home), thanks for the response. I have a PSE Durango (302 fps IBO, not sure what the axle to axle is, 70# draw, and 29" draw length) as of now, but plan to upgrade the bow very soon. I'm leaning toward the PSE Drive (336 fps IBO, 31" axle to axle, 70# draw, 29" draw length). How do I go about getting the correct spine? Thanks.

31-Mar-14
Find a good archery shop in your locale and go there. They will be able to help you with all you need. Bowsiters can give you recommendations, but even well meaning folks can steer you in the wrong direction since they don't know your exact setup. And, since archery accessories are so dang expensive, you will save money by going to a good shop. As for broadheads, well, that subject has been debated on here ad nauseum. Search for the threads and you will find a mountain of info. If you have friends that bowhunt, borrow some of their heads and try them out.

From: LINK
31-Mar-14
Mine are the 4 blade buzzcuts and they shoot very well.

From: Chip T.
31-Mar-14
Go to a bowshop you trust and have them go over you and your set up. Asking here will get you to many responses and you will be more confused than ever.

From: Russ Koon
31-Mar-14
One reason there are so many opinions on the best BH's and shaft weights, etc., is that there is much to recommend any quality head and a fairly broad range of weights.

There are advantages and disadvantages that apply to specific circumstances. You should analyze ypur own likely circumstances and adjust your selection accordingly.

For instance, if you will be shooting a 70# draw weight modern compound at average or better draw length, you will be shooting with enough energy to use a BH that might require a bit more to get the same expectation of penetration that a smaller head or one with fewer blades might achieve using less energy. That would be trading some of the penetration that you would most likely have in excess, for some extra cut area in the wound channel.

Personally, I prefer a fixed blade head with interchangeable blades and a small and VERY hard tip. I trade off the advantage of the cut-on-contact design to gain the extra hardness of the small tip that can be of a material or heat treatment that would prevent it from being feasible to resharpen along an entire blade length and would be too brittle to use in that function anyway.

In the blade, I like a good quality stainless steel that takes an edge and holds it well, and that can be resharpened fairly quickly to extreme sharpness and re-used.

I think the 3-blade designs give the best compromise between penetration and cut area. They guarantee a hole, as opposed to a slit, in the hide, and some measure of cross-grain cutting through meat, which can both be important pluses in getting a good blood trail.

The disadvantage of the additional blade hindering penetration is pretty minimized by the relatively thin blade in the replaceable blade head as opposed to the third blade of the true COC, where the penetration resistance would be much closer to the easily imagined 50% additional resistance. In actual testing, the additional blade in a replaceable head penetrated very nearly the same as the two-blade version of the same design.

For me, all the above factors and more caused meto go with the NAP Thunderhead. Used them for many years and recently went back to them. There are other very good choices out there, but that's the one that fit my needs best.

I think the flight of any BH that's properly mounted and that spins good, is almost totally a result of the state of tune of your entire setup. If you tune using BH point of impact as close as possible to FP point of impact as your goal, flight characteristics of the head will normally not make a significant difference.

If you were going with a traditional bow and lower poundage, those factors might require some readjustment and could well indicate that a two-blade COC would be a better choice.

But it would probably be a fairly close call in either case. A good quality head of conventional design and good material will work just fine even if not in the precisely best match-up that could be found. The old Bear Razorhead killed trainloads of animals before designs of better quality and design came along, and would do so today in probably 90% of applications.

What you are doing in carefully selecting the best match-up to your gear and the expected circumstances of your hunt is to eliminate as much as you can of the other 10% of the times, when the soft steel of the old Bear might have curled upon hitting that shoulder blade, for instance.

WRT the weight of the arrow, I think there is also good evidence for a rsasonable variety of opinions, and there, too, you'll probably want to select something in the more popular middle rather than from the extreme fringes of the available choices. There is some penetration gain to be had by going heavier, but you pay for it with trajectory, which can complicate shot placement. So there again, your own abilities and preferences on maximum effective range will affect the decision, as will your desire to get close, versus using some of your newly acquired accuracy. Moderation is always a good starting point, with decisions to do things in a more unconventional way better left until after you've tried it the more normal way first. Something in the mid-400 grain range for total arrow weight should probably be the goal, with more leeway to the heavier side than the lighter. You won't regret being 100 grains heavier and giving up some trajectory as often as you would going 100 grains lighter and bouncing an arrow off a shoulder blade at a spot where a heavier one would have likely penetrated made a clean kill. You'll most likely be carrying a rangefinder and verifying your estimates of range at every opportunity anyway, I know I do, so the loss of a little trajectory is probably not going to cause a poor hit. The heavier arrow will shoot quieter as well, which can be an important factor on a quiet mountainside encounter.

Good that you're getting prepared now. Too many guys tend to wait until two weeks before season to get ready, and find themselves up against an unrealistic time frame as it approaches, causing poor decisions made in haste and using gear that is unfamiliar and relatively untested.

Shoot a lot, read a lot, anticipate all you can, and enjoy it....the preparation should be nearly as much fun as what up do up the hill.

Best of luck to you.

I got my one and only elk fifteen years ago in AZ. Got a cow tag for the September hunt, north of the Mogollon rim up in 3. I remember all my western hunts, but I remember that one most often and clearest. Caught the last of the pre-rut chasing and gathering and almost had to shoo some of the bulls away to get to a cow. Didn't even attempt to call. Let the real ones do the talking and I just chased them and plotted interceptions and ambushes. Had an absolute blast up there in some fairly flat ground with juniper bushes dotting the pastures and providing decent stalking cover. Got my cow on the last morning I could be there.

From: Beendare
31-Mar-14
Powell, You will get many opinions from guys shooting 380gr arrows and mech heads to guys shooting 550gr fixed...and everywhere in between. The reason; they all have worked!

Now to the best; After about 30yrs of elk hunting with a bow I have come to a strong preference.

I want an arrow that makes my bow whisper quiet. I don't want animals flinching on the shot turning my good shot into a poor shot location.

I want it to be forgiving- an arrow clocking 340fps is much less forgiving of minor form errors than one going 280fps.

I want a stiff spined heavy arrow that will reach vital organs, arteries, etc in case of a less than perfect shot- the heavier arrows will do this a little better.

I think somewhere in the 450-550gr range is a real good elk arrow with a fixed tapered coc head- I shoot 495gr. Of course whatever you shoot you HAVE to BH tune it- perfect arrow flight is paramount.

...

..

From: AZBUGLER
31-Mar-14
Powell, not ute what part of the state you are in but I would reccomend both Archery Headquarters in Mesa and Arizona Archery Club in North Phoenix. They will be able to help you narrow down the choices based on the now you end up with. Blazing fast bows with arrows in the 300 grain range kill elk well. Also bows shooting in the mid to upper 200's shooting 500 plus grains kill elk well.

I would also recommend going somewhere in the middle for best results. I am a fan of an arrow in the low 400's that is still flying fast. The majority on here are against mechanical broadheads of any kind, but with the right bow and proper shot selection they can be great. One thing to keep in mind is that your average shot in AZ will be at a greater distance than many other states. There are of course exceptions to this and yes you want to get the closest shot you can, but alotnof our elk country can be wide open. For this reason, I prefer a flat shooting bow an slightly lighter arrow.

For cut on contact broadheads, I think you would be hard pressed to beat Magnus heads. That's what my boy will be using this year. He will be shooting only 40 pounds and those heads will preform well, based on my experience. Personally, I don't think 2,3, or 4 blades make much of a difference in the grand scheme of things. More important than anything is how well your bow is tuned and shot selection.

You really need to start with the bow, shoot the highest poundage you can comfortably and ACCURATELY shoot and then pick a mid range arrow and broadhead combo. The vains you choose will depend on the broadhead you choose to some extent. Personally I like short vains with a slight offset, but if you are going with a large COC broadhead, you may want more on the back end of your arrow.

Like others have said, you will get lots and lots of differing opinions on this. There is no one "best combo" out there. Put simply, they will all kill an elk. I have had great results and zero horror stories using a 400-450 grain arrow and a good quality expandable broadhead combo. Many will tell you this is a bad idea, but they have worked well for me for many years with a setup similar to the one you have now. I actually shot my last bull with a 29 inch PSE Durango set at 70 pounds just like your current bow. Feel free to PM me if you want further info. Good luck on your hunt!

From: SDHNTR(home)
31-Mar-14
Pick a .300 spine arrow of your choice. A Gold Tip Pro Hunter would be perfect. Screw a good quality 125 gr fixed broadhead of your choice on there, make sure your bow is tuned and your form is proper and go to town. That will likely give you an excellent arrow in the 435 gr (give or take) range. And if you want more weight, you could put some weight inserts up front and still have the spine for it. I like an arrow in the 425-450 gr range myself as it seems to strike a good balance between speed/trajectory and momentum/penetration.

As long as you don't mind sharpening, the VPA 3 blade is an excellent choice. With the above arrow and that head, out of your bow, I'd feel confident taking on anything and everything in North America. Given good shot placement, of course.

From: PowellSixO
31-Mar-14
Thanks guys for all the info. I guess that I need to plan a trip to an archery shop. I live up in Page, and the closest place that I can find is Bull Basin Archery down in Flagstaff. I'll have to give them a call and set up an appointment. I never grew up archery hunting, or elk hunting for that matter. My pops was a Kiabab rifle deer kinda guy, so that's what I grew up doing. Now that I'm in my 30's I started to tag a long with friends on elk hunts, and now I'm hooked for life. I took my first bull (first elk period) last year down in 22 north (by Payson). It was one of the most rewarding hunts that I have ever been on. I built the rifle for my hunt, learned how to reload, loaded my own rounds, spent 7 different weekends down there putting miles and miles on my boots, and enough glassing to make your eyes bleed. Lol. Made a perfect 400 yard shot on opening morning that dropped him (little 4x4) dead in his tracks. I cleaned him, quartered him, and packed him out about 1.5-1.75 miles with two of my friends. It was incredible. I made my mind up that day that I wanted to get closer, and that I was going to put in for archery from then on. I put in this year not expecting to get drawn with only a loyalty point and a hunter education point, but I guess I'm lucky. Knowing that it could be another 10+ years before I could draw another elk tag, I want to make sure that I give this hunt my all. Thanks for all the replies. I'm glad to be part of this forum, and looking forward to learning as much as I can.

  • Sitka Gear