Contributors to this thread:
Anyone used rental Llamas? I am considering using them to access an area that is a little to deep and steep to get the meat out of without pack animals.
Any experience good or bad would be helpful.
I'd like to hear about any experiences as well.
Wish I would've known about llamas more before I moved. Can't have them in my subdivision and I want a couple.
Well, many years ago, I took my kids to a game farm. You know, you feed the animals kind of thing. WHile approaching a llama, he spit a huge goober right in my face. I swore venceance on his kind that day!
Fast forward, a friend wanted to buy llamas and truck them to CO to use on elk huts; because we're getting older, etc, etc..... I told him to bring a BIG bottle of kecthup? When he asked why, I told him that the first one that spits on me is geting a 40 S&W between his eyes and we were going to have to eat him right there! ( I think they taste like chicken!)
He replied that if it carried his pack, he didn't care if he had to wear his raingear with the hood up all day!
Thats about all I know about llamas.....
>>>>----good luck----->
There's no reason you can't lead a plain old pack horse. They can carry way more..... including you. But to be safe two is recommended in case they are herd bound. Some don't do well solo. Where are you hunting Rick?
Curve,
I don't mind a little spit if it will carry 80lbs of elk meat either:)
Mule,
Same go to spot in Co. that we hid when the draw gods are stingy. Just deeper in.
Walked away from a bunch of good bulls last year because of the pack out. first time I ever said I just don't think we can get one out of there:)
This sounds funny, but, you may want to consider PackGoats. IMO horses are a Pita, especially the crap stock that is usually rented. My experience with rented horses is that they are usually lame, sick and you are responsible for ANYTHING that happens to them. Llamas and Goats are way tougher than any horse will ever be, can free browse, hardly ever get lame or sick and are just fine if you leave them all day in camp. They can also be driven to the trailhead in the back of your truck. Goats can carry about 40lbs each and don't really need a lead...they will just follow you.
I've never heard of using goats before and it makes sense but the mental pictures are jus great! A camp-clad bowhunter hiking up the mountain with 3 pack-laden goats trailing along...I'd try it!
See my link above as I have some experience with llama's......
Good luck, Robb
Ask if you have any specific questions. I have packed with llamas for some 25+ years now...
Rented stock is like all animals. Most are good, some not worth it. A reputable service makes all the difference. There are some great outfits, and a few that rent from their back yard. Get references, and you will most likely be fine. Bill
Actually familiar with goats but nobody rents them and it takes too many.
Robb, somehow I just knew you were a Llama guy:)
Lamapacker, I am checking on references now.
My real concern is can 2 large Llama pack out a mature bull if they are in shape?
Can they handle the weight in steep terrain, mostly small scree that is fairly stable?
Me and my brother in law can handle the 5 miles out of camp down hill in one trip with a bull. It is the 2 miles deeper in with a 1000 foot gain and loss going over the back of the devide that is the killer:)
I knew I could get the answers from a bunch of BSers!!
Thanks for the input
Rick M
How much does it cost to feed a llama per year?
I've rented once and was told they can do around 80 lb each. We loaded up "Nebraska" with what we thought was about 80 lb and she laid down in the trail and took far more than 80 lbs to pull to get her going again so we unloaded her to probably 65-70 lb and she was fine. I think you'd need a min of 3 and more like 4 to get a mature bull out (maybe 2 if you and your buddy have 80 lb packs too). although I have no experience packing bulls with them, just general packing and I have packed 1 bull on horses and that took 2 and was quite a rodeo by itself. At camp the lama took minimal effort to take care of, compared to horses which can be a chore, especially for people who are not that experienced with them.
Hunted with a friend in Colorado last year and used his llamas. Very easy to take care of and gentle. Only spitting they did was at each other. Easier than horses but limited to 80 lbs. Had them in camp for two weeks. Wouldn't hesitate to use them again.
I've rented llamas at least 1/2 dozen times. Prefer them to horses. Much easier to care for. Don't load them too heavy going in which in my experience is usually uphill too. Pack like you're going on a backpacking trip and don't get in the mindset that you can bring a bunch of extra crap just cause you don't have to carry it.
So you get them to a camping spot, do you high line them, hobble them?
Do you have to bring grain if there is decent grass?
Will they/should they drink from marshy meadow seeps?
How often do they need to water given freezing nights and daytime highs in the 50's?
Bill,
You ground stake them out, no extra feed and water once a day from what I have been told.
I would not load any different than when we back pack everything in. Just trying to figure out if 2 can haul a bull if 2 guys carry 60 lbs each. Don't want to pay for 3 if we can get by.
If ya bone the meat off you can take right at 150lbs on 2 llama's out, with a small top load weight 10lbs like camp chairs or that type item (s).
They can go anywhere I went using my two leg's, if I got into a place that I was grabbing with my hands to pull myself----nope---unless I let the lead rope go and then they would go up a lot faster than me OR they would say screw you and go down!! haha smarter than me!
They do not do well in boulder fields....go figure---
They eat anything on the mountain and in the August/Sept. hunts in the high country, the afternoon thunderstorms did just fine for wet grass they ate for water...
I would take a quart size Tupperware of grain for a 'reward/treat' or if some how they got off the camp 25ft tether rope, it worked great to catch them after they got loose....
I only fed during deep snow months as they eat in the pasture till then. 1 bale of hay every 5 days to feed 4 of 'em and in the real cold some grain----
I would train them with full 70--80lb panniers from spring thru hunting season (August---November).....keeping them and me in good shape.
I would use bowling ball type density weight like big water jugs and sand bags for top loads....
I really felt my going in weight needed to be pretty much what they trained with so I would supplement for adding extra weight with drinking water gallon jugs. this way after a harvest, I had disposable weight as I would just pour out the unused gallons of water and burn the plastic jugs in the campfire and replace that pack-in weight with harvested game meat.
I bought one of those fishing scales and would weigh each panniers as having a balanced load is so very important.
I only used Males and would not ever mix and match with males and females as ya know---boys and girls----wanna play.....
Good luck, Robb
Thanks for all who replied. I may just go for it and will report back if I do.
Rick M
Are there any dog breeds that look like llamas? I ask because if I do this, I'm going to need to convince my spouse, neighbors & HOA enforcers that they are dogs.
Good luck with that YZF:) The people up the street tried that with chickens, did not work out so well for them!!!
I have a buddy that has had a bunch of llamas over the years and has the big elk racks to go with them. He says a properly raised llama will not spit at humans. He said they only spit at other llamas, unless they don't know the difference between llamas and humans. He doesn't pet them much when they are young so they don't get used to him too much and think hes a llama. He packs them all over the country and loves them, but he tells me only one out of 10 will be a good one with "heart". He has had several over the years that would die before they would lay down on the trail, and he values them very highly.
Taxman.. I guess that depends on who you rent from. I have never had a bad critter from the guy I lease from now. he has 1200 head and believe it or not knows every one by name. They are more sane than most women no doubt.
Horses yes! Llamas... uh, maybe. Goats NO! You'd need a small herd to get anything done.
Quick story... a guy in the Bitterroot drew a moose tag and killed one about 8 miles in a creek bottom trail. Should have been an easy out. But he took in goats to get it out. Goats for a moose! 23 of them to be exact! LMAO Shortly thereafter there were signs posted all over the valley "Lost, 23 packs goats loaded with moose meat" They scattered and he never caught a single one of them.
There's a lot of great advice above. I own llamas. While my primary intent was/is to use them as pack animals, it's been a bit of a challenge. My issue is that I just don't have the time to keep them as "in-shape" as I would like to. I might hire a local kid who can start packing them around the woods near my home a couple times a week. They are awesome animals, but if you don't keep them accustomed to packing year-round, then try to load 80#'s on their backs you're not going to make it very far. LOL
Luckily, going the rental route that shouldn't be an issue. Mine work vvery well as long as I keep their packs fairly light. If I could "work them" more often, they would be much more helpful. Here's a pic from camp as we get ready to hit the trail.
As far as being easy to care for, they are a breeze and make for nice camping partners.
I own 3 llamas, and have never been spit at, or had them spit at anybody. They love to spit at each other though. Just stand back. They are wonderful, carry about 70-80 pounds and follow me everywhere. When they are packing they tend to hum real low, and it is very soothing. Also, they have the best vision, and are always looking around. They have spotted many things that I would have never noticed. Also, if anything threatening ever comes around they have a very loud and unusual distress scream that really gets your attention. Here is a picture of my grandson and wife leading Calipso, Polaris, and Secret Service, around the pasture. Secret Services name came from the fact his Mom's name was Monica Lewinsky.
I have seven pack llamas (two too many if anyone is looking for pack llamas). I had bought llamas after pack my first two elk off the mountains year ago I swore I would never do it on my back again. I was financially unable at that time to buy horses so I chose llamas. I used them for a few years and liked them but then, after moving up in my job to the point I could afford horses decided that I would rather ride then walk the miles up the trail to where I hunt. I had the horses 3 years before selling them and going back to llamas. They are so much safer, gentler on equipment, easier to deal with in the back country than horses!
As far as two llamas packing out a mature bull elk, that is pushing it. I used 2 to pack a bull out in CO but it was a level trail and only about 4 miles. With the elevation gain that you are talking about you would be better off with three. One will have a lighter load than the others but then, if one gets tired and lays down, you can switch the light load to that llama and continue on.
As others have said, they spit at each other all the time but I have only had one target me. He was gone the next day... He would have been left right where it happened as a carcass but my wife was along and that wasn't allowed!
Llamas learn to pack extremely fast. I have friends that call me as soon as they have an animal down.
Here are three of my llamas packing out my late season cow elk in December last year.
Has anyone ever dressed up their lamma or died their hair to look like an elk and use it as a decoy?
I really thought this thread would be TBM safe. I don't think color would matter. Elk unlike turkeys are supposed to be color blind.
My friend showed me pics where his wife used hair dye to try to camo his llamas. It didn't work so he spray painted them since a couple were mostly white. Looked awesome.
TBM: one might end up with a dead llama from a hunter with a cow tag.
Additionally, here in NM it is illegal to use live animals as bait or as decoys.
Very good advice above. 80 pounds is about tops for all but the strongest llamas. A boned mature bull will yield about 200 pounds of meat, plus antlers. With only two llamas, you will also be carrying 60-80 pounds on the trip out. Of course you can always make more trips. Assuming you are going in with a buddy, he can stay at camp and still hunt while you take a trip out with meat. I personally always use three when elk hunting. Two for deer is just fine (one is usually not a good idea - they are herd animals). There are exceptions to all these rules. I had a stud who loved to pack alone. I also had a big gelding that routinely handled 95 pounds. These are the exceptions, however, and don't count on it.
Keeping them fit and in shape is one of the blessings. I don't do well on my first scouting trip in the spring / summer either, and need to get in shape. They take about as long to get in shape as I do (or at least I used to!), so taking them on scouting trips, etc., for the exercise works well. Leave them in a pasture all summer getting fat, and you will get the same performance as you get from me after a winter on the couch. Sub-optimal at best.
Good luck, Bill
so what do they cost to rent for 10 days?
gaur seems $55 a day per animal is the magic number.
thanks. A bit pricy x2 x say 7-10 days for me.
Can you saddle them and put a small child (<80 lbs) on them?
Maybe just for a photo or 2-- Ike, not for riding like a pony.
Good luck, Robb
I've had them and rented them out for almost 20 yrs now. There is a lot of nonsense in the above posts and some golden nuggets. I get $150 /animal/hunt for the rentals, the heaviest loads were 155# (12 miles level road, 4 llamas and me, and my dog, for a nice shiras) but I would never do that again... to me or them! They are amazing animals and if you let them they will change your geezerhood yrs into some of the best instead of a road hunter retirement home shuffleboard hunts. Just as with Dirty Harry a man's got to know his (and his stock's ) limitations.
Last weekend living on sweet corn and brook trout 8 miles from the truck with butter and a cast iron skillet (and ice for the brown water)... priceless. Carrying nothing but a camera and a rope.
http://llamas.lifeyo.com/Home/preview/
Here is a link to my fledgling website or go to rentallama.com to hook up anywhere in the west, and thank alexa for such a great resource.
Idyll,
My boy rides my llamas all the time. Usually he just rides bareback. You just have to lead them the same as if they were packing.
150 pounds! That's the average for a pack horse or mule. No doubt overloaded for a llama. We pay $350 for a horse and that's for as long as we want to keep it. Several weeks is the norm. I'll take the bigger animals any day. It's like the asking should we drive to our elk hunt with a Subaru or a full size pickup.
Rick get a white one and dye it tan. Get one of Blacktail Bobs horn hats put in on it = Elk Decoy
Ha, Dan exactly what I was thinking!
Not sure it will come together this year I am a little late to the party as most of the animals seem to be taken.
156.5 to be precise MP the 2nd was @ 155-0 My pack was over 100 by a little my dog @35. We were all very happy to see the glint of chrome in the moonlight. Moose on ground @ daylight... moose in trailer @ 10:30 pm 12 miles away. A well conditioned string handled well, with a bit of desperation thrown in (grizz country) can be very rewarding.
Horse guys it is a religion to them, and like any religion they will not stray the path of righteousness, I have no problems with that all I'm sayin is llamas are awesome!
Anyone who wants to learn more can come to the Fairplay llama race on next Saturday and see tons of different pack systems and meet some great people. You can also root on Leo the current reigning world champion to a repeat title. or you can BOO him he really doesn't care...
http://www.wildflowerridgellamas.com/
I used Greg's several times - love love LOVE packing with llamas
Horses and I have had a loooong running fued. I first got bit when I was 4 or 5? I've been kicked, bit, bucked, stepped on, abandoned and purposely run into a tree by horses. I'd just as soon shoot and eat one as ride one. Sounds like llamas are wayyyy better to me. My girls ask me for horses all the time and I always say: "As soon as you buy one and can pay the upkeep, yes. Until then, NO!"
Squirrel,
Email and PM sent.
Rick
I believe an occasional Llama would fit into the Grizzly diet.
I just wanted to fallow up with an update on how the Llama pack trip went:
We ended up renting from "squirrel" Kevin in Kremling Co. I can't say enough good things about these unique animals. Although we did not kill our elk this trip we did finally find elk and most likely would not have without the 2 Llama. We packed like we were carrying the load with just a couple of luxury items as extras. The 2 that we had were nearly maintenance free in camp and a pleasure to lead on the trail.
They are quiet, strong, athletic and will go anywhere we can walk without using our hands to climb. We moved camp 3 times and covered a lot of ground to finally get into elk andprobobly would not have been able to without pack animals.
If you are thinking about trying this find good animals and go for it.
Thanks again Kevin!!
Rick M
Glad to hear u did well rick. I hate getting next years scouting done this year. I haven't gotten into them either. Going this weekend for six more days. Good luck next year.
Now that I've moved to Idaho, I'm very seriously considering getting 2 llamas for wilderness hunting but I am not going to pretend like i know a lot about stock. I haven't ever personally owned or been that involved with any type of stock animal so i am very green for what's involved from a year round perspective.
Does anyone have an estimate of the yearly costs associated with two llamas that would be used throughout the spring summer for backpacking trips and then for hunting?
What are the typical medical bills like for pack llamas?
Is there anything that needs to be done to them medically/physically on a regular basis?
I saw that in winter, they need hay fed, are they truly good just on pasture grass at all other times?
Can they be pastured with Horses/cows/anything else? (I will have to lease pasture space)
What about llamas in Wolf country? Anyone have them preyed upon by predators? Black/Grizz Bears, Wolves, Lions, Coyotes? How do you handle this aspect when hunting for a day away from camp?
If anyone has any insight into these questions your help would be much appreciated!
Thanks
I cannot stop anyone from using llamas or goats but would just ask that if your going in an area with bighorn sheep please leave them home diseases can be transmitted to the wild sheep that really does a number on the population just a heads up.
Did a 2 llama deer hunt on Independance pass one time and we never had contact with them before. Overall it was a good trip with those critters. Just stake them out and they'll graze and laze all day. The only spitting occurred 1 time between the 2 of them. They don't do it without reason and you know it's coming when their ears pin back. We only put on 30lbs. per and that worked well.
Get one the right color and use a little color hair dye in the right places and you could cow call right behind one and shoot your bull as he came in.
In Colorado the USFS and the CPW frown upon anyone bringing domestic goats into any area that are inhibited by wild sheep. Domestic goats and domestic sheep carry diseases that are deadly to wild sheep.
We were not in sheep country but I also did some research and can not find any indication that Llama will transmit any disease to wild sheep. Goats, domestic sheep and possibly cattle can.
trust me Llamas carry lung worm just like the others.
Tdiesel,
Good to know. All I found was opinions and anecdotal info. Theories mostly that were not supported. Goats, dom sheep and cattle not the case.
Regardless we were not in sheep country.
Thanks for the kind words about my wooly children Rick. I'm glad your first experience was a good one, it is by nature the most difficult.
I believe for lung worm you need to have lungs, and llamas do indeed have 2. Cats are big carriers too so do not pack your pussy into sheep country either... My point would be that sheep have issues.
NDBUCK: 1 big round bale /yr (current cost here $150) $0/yr (at least at my elevation) no yes yes... but apparently not with bighorn sheep fyi slowest llama becomes wolf poop... use cheap llamas
