I would be lying if I said I hadn't lost an animal. I can think of three and two of them were bad shots. The first was a mule deer where I clipped one lung and the second was an elk I hit too high. I don't believe the broad head choice would've made any difference at all in this scenarios. The last was a javelina I believe I hit well but left it overnight. Based on the ridiculous blood trail leading to nothing, I think there is a great chance that it was carried off.
About 80% of my kills over the years have been passthroughs on deer and elk. The blood trails have been awesome and the wound channels impressive. I just couldn't have asked for better results from my equipment. I do believe it is necessary to have the right equipment to shoot mechanicals though. My son will be hunting elk this year with a 40 lb bow. He will be using a fixed blade Magnus buzz cut. I believe a top quality head is a too quality head regardless of the design.
Good luck on your decision and kudos to you for admitting a possible change of heart. Shoot what gives you confidence!
There is no doubt that even a well placed shot with a fixed blade BH can fail to leave a great blood trail, but an unopened blade won't be the cause.
There's enough things that can cause less than desirable blood trails. A fixed blade head failing to open isn't one of them.
I use stropping to maintain a good edge during the season.
Your broadheads may be getting dull without your knowledge.
My take; Shoot them lower 1/3rd and you will have a good blood trail [and if you get 2 holes even better] hit them with anything high and you won't.
Puncture one of the large arteries around/above the heart and it'll squirt out of the smallest hole due to blood pressure.
Fixed blade broadhead for me.
I have struggled to get a good blood trail with montecs/VPA/Snuffer SS because they are hard to get sharp..
I have strugled to get good blood trails out of slick tricks bc of the blade angle..
Give me a stryker, or a silver flame and the blood trail is great.. and neither of those have a wide cut
I'd take it one step further and say NO bh today is sharp enough out of the box. Not sharpening your brand new out the package bh is asking for trouble.
jtelarkin08 I am curious why you say a VPA head is hard to get sharp. A couple of strokes on a single cut file, then a couple on a good stone, finishing up on a strop mine get scary sharp.
I don't have the opportunity to elk hunt but hunt deer & hogs. Very seldom need a trail now, as most pile up in close prox. Magnus Stingers with strict daily attention to touching up those ultra keen sharp edges.
Trails can be followed on a 21 speed bicycle.
I have been waiting patiently for anyone to describe to me how they open each blade of a rage head and touch it up on a diamond stone every other night at camp . I have yet to come across any mech head user describing his/her methods.
I've killed several dozen animals with VPAs and never once have I been disappointed in a blood trail. And many have been quite surprising as to how much they bled. Sharp is key and goes without saying. And they are very EASY to get sharp.
I've also killed a pile with Slick Tricks, even a few with Montecs, and a handful of others. They all do they job. I think it works out something like this... 85% of a blood trail is a function of shot placement, 10% sharpness (within reason), and 5% cutting diameter.
That said, I still keep one in the quiver, and am now using Grim reapers as a primary.
That can be true with some heads and is most definitely true with big Mechanicals but it doesn't really apply to Simmons and even the old Snuffers that were 1.5" dia penetrated better than many of the replacement blade heads. Penetration starts with the tip and nothing compares to a coc 2 blade with a keen tip. 2 blades penetrate better than 3. So the Simmons has all the qualitys of a great penetrating head and it will out penetrate most all smaller heads. I don't advise shooting it as a 2 blade or any other head as a 2 blade...2 blades can and eventually will be turned the wrong way and "hide slip" will cover the hole. Hide slip is what covers the hole on small diameter broadheads. I advise always shoot the Simmons with the bleeder installed. They have a small loc in bleeder that us plenty big enough to create flaps and create a hole that can't ever be covered by hide slip. Most on bs havnt tried Simmons. It will amaze you what this head will do. It is probably not the best direct hit on heavy bone head but is great on soft bone like rib and shoulderblade and even pelvic bones. I am confident in saying the Simmons will out penetrate whatever you are shooting, and will leave up to 100% more blood on the ground. If you can get it to shoot great you will prove you are a master at tuning...this is a next level head all the way.
I have used mech. on other animals and have had decent outcomes- but with a 31" draw my KE levels have always been larger than average and I can push a head like most setups can't.
With tissue there will always be a variance in outcome, it's a intricate part of the game; sharpness and placement are two variables that as stewards we should have absolutely covered.
The blood trail was good at the shot for the first 150 yards. We did not wait on this bull as we had seen the impact. We slowly stalked and trailed the bull. After 400-600 yards he would bed. Actually, the blood trail would peter out to the effect of following his steps downhill just before we would come on him. Probably pushed him out of his bed 4 or 5 times before getting close.
While in the timber the trail was enough to stalk behind pretty quietly and alertly. When he hit a large meadow... 10 acres or so... it got tough because with a sunny day the blood was tough to find. Finally by crossing the meadow and following each likely travel path, we tracked him to his bed once more... this time up hill. Jumping him again while trying to get an arrow in him, he made his final flight and made it another two hundred yards. While stalking what little remained of a blood trail, he stood and took another arrow through the chest just behind the V at the crease. HE ambled another 150 yards downhill and died. Leaving NO bloodtrail. NONE.
He traveled a total of one and one half miles as the crow flies and twice that point to point (almost 3 miles GPS). His vertical elevation change of down, then up, then down was well over a thousand feet. No one is likely to convince me that this bull could have been recovered with a expandable broad head. I also do not believe he would have been recovered at all had the tracking been delayed 4,6, or more hours. He traveled many miles and was alive 6 hours later while each bed was left with little to no blood trail (he laid down, clotted and only while fleeing his pursuers did he bleed again substantially). Had he been left long enough to die, then us to track a very sparse trail, the likelihood of finding him before he spoiled on a sunny September afternoon is near nonexistent.
Sometimes things work out. Sometimes they don't.
Hope everyone enjoys September and sleeps well with the decisions they make...
Your scenario/experience has nothing to do with what type broadhead was used. You got lucky, plain and simple. You had just as much chance getting that second arrow in him as he stood from his 1st bed as you did after many bed-down episodes. The first arrow wasn't likely to kill him either way.
Your bull only traveled miles because you pursued him. He would have likely stayed lying down for a long time if left alone.
So, if you are advocating that poorly shot animals be pursed right-away, you may contribute greatly to others having the sleepless nights you infer.
Maybe a mechanical would have flown true and you'd have hit the kill zone? Who knows...
I don't care what BH others use (I use both), but your story doesn't make an argument for either. It does, however, demonstrate the fact that luck is sometimes needed no matter which course of action we choose after a poor shot.
And as long as he recovered the bull, you really can't claim that he did the wrong thing; the proof is in the pudding.
How do you know that long pointy Simmons isn't going to roll up like a potato chip when it hits an elk scapula....and you will be trying to get the Colo dust and twigs that bull kicks up out of your eyes the whole drive home?
Awww, I'm just messing with ya. The Simmons looks OK but seems to me a little bit too weak in the tip area- stay away from those elk shoulders- assuming you get a shot.
Just, Wow!
Muskrat's story interests me as I've seen lots of heart hots with little to no blood trail. I think when you hit the pump it drops blood pressure to zero, all you have is gravity. Good thing about heart shots is whatever trail exists is usually a pretty short one....
An artery hit OTOH is still under a great deal of pressure, and on an excited animal the pressure is significant. It empties the body of blood until there is nothing left to pump. Fast.
You hit an artery with any sharp broadhead and you will have a great blood trail, like you hit a spray paint can. Need to walk off to the side so you don't get any on your pants blood trail. It's why the center of the aiming point for the "V" is actually the bundle of arteries just above the heart.
In the words of Yogi Berra.... No matter the head, 90% of a good blood trail is what you hit. The other half is where you hit it..... =D
2. People that insist on having sharp heads out of the pack aren't shooting/testing/sharpening them.
3. VPA's are easy to sharpen with the right tools, diamond stone and leather strop. Use silicone or a light coat of wax to keep carbon steels from rusting during season.
4. Most people lose elk and deer because they hit them too far back. Mid body in the > on a broadside elk is where you want to hit.
It is not likely that an expandable would have penetrated both limbs and left so many wounds channels. A 1 1/2 inch entry channel might have caught an artery... maybe.
This wasn't a liver hit. It wasn't a low chest, one lung hit. He wasn't gut shot. It turned out that his urinary track was also compromised, which in turn would have made it difficult for him to survive.
Leaving this bull on the mountain and searching for him dead in a bed 6, 8 ,10 hours later would with near certainty failed. It may have left us in the dark, etc. But it possibly could have worked out I expect. He likely would have rested several hours, stood, walked off parallel to the mountain with limited tracks and little to no blood. He may have lived days... best case scenario he is immobile in a bed and we actually found it... by luck.
The wound was not intended to be such. It was a hunt... It was not a calculated harvest. It was not for sport, or some a game to win. The rules are not posted on the internet for all to follow. Sometimes it pays to follow your gut. Sometimes it pays to be aggressive. Sometimes it pays to be patient. Sometimes it pays to follow your experience and buck the internet.
Hunger -> hunt -> track -> kill -> eat.
How long has man depended on this pattern for survival?
How long can man depend on the internet for survival?
The mountains have a marvelous way of allowing one to leave a better person than they were when they arrived. Enjoy them this September.
Great, Great post.
Shoot lower. Anything above center = NO/Little BLOOD
Good double lung in lower third and even if it does not pass thru U usually have a decent blood trail.
Good luck in the woods boys, Please no one get chewed on by grizzly this year.
Shot was at about 8 paces,tapered coc fixed head pass thru, low through the heart [verified on processing] and that bull stood there for a second and the blood was spurting/pulsing about 6' on either side of him. He took off after about 3 seconds still with blood shooting out but now about 4' on both sides.
What I'm saying, I know a dead on heart shot is supposed to drop the blood pressure to zero, but from that experience, I think it takes about 6 seconds plus or minus.
